COP29

Debate between Ed Miliband and Sammy Wilson

Tuesday 26th November 2024 Commons Chamber

[Ed Miliband]

I will resist the second half of my hon. Friend’s question, if you don’t mind, Mr Speaker. On the first part of his question, the COP process does have its critics, so I will say a couple of things. First, 15 years ago, when I last attended the COP as Secretary of State in Copenhagen, no country was signed up to net zero. Now, 90% of the world’s GDP is covered by net zero. That is not only because of the COP, but that process of international engagement is important, and it is a forcing mechanism to put world leaders on the spot. Secondly, the reason why it is hard is largely because we have 198 countries all trying to agree, which is difficult. If people can think of improvements to the system, that is great, but that engagement is really important.

[Sammy Wilson (East Antrim) (DUP)]

Let me get this straight. The Secretary of State is welcoming a conference to deal with CO₂ where the host country tried to use it to sell oil and gas deals; where the leaders of those countries that are the major producers of CO₂ did not even bother turning up; where we sent 490 civil servants, flying them out to attend the conference; and where the main topic was how to extract money from countries that were guilty of the sin of industrialisation. The Secretary of State has shot out his chest today and said, “We are now leaders in global climate.” It is hard to be a leader when we have no followers, that is all I will say. How can the Secretary of State face the hard-pressed taxpayers of the United Kingdom, who are reeling under the impact of the latest Budget, and expect them to pay out billions to foreign countries—

[Mr Speaker]

Order.

Carbon Capture, Usage and Storage

Debate between Ed Miliband and Sammy Wilson

Monday 7th October 2024 Commons Chamber

[Ed Miliband]

My hon. Friend also speaks with customary eloquence on these issues. This is potentially an important part of the solution. We owe a debt to the workers at Port Talbot, and we must ensure that we leave no stone unturned in looking to the future. I look forward to continuing these discussions with him.

[Sammy Wilson (East Antrim) (DUP)]

The Secretary of State has boasted about spending £27 billion of public money on carbon capture and storage, and on promoting what he calls renewable energy. Does he feel any sense of irony in taking £27 billion from a financial black hole and putting it into a carbon-absorbing black hole? Does he not recognise that his own green policies are generating the very CO₂ he condemns? The Drax B power station needs American forests to be chopped down and brought halfway around the world to be burned, emitting CO₂, at a cost of £1 billion a year in subsidy.

In Northern Ireland, we are tearing up thousands of acres of pristine upland bogland to erect windmills, and Scotland has already cut down 17 million carbon-absorbing trees to make space for windmills. I know the Secretary of State is keen on modelling, but have his models told him how many carbon capture and storage facilities will be needed to offset the carbon impact of his green policies?

[Ed Miliband]

I will let the House into a secret: the conversation—if I can put it that way—between myself and the right hon. Gentleman goes back to 2008 or 2009, when he was shadowing me, so this is a long-running saga, and I fear I will not convince him. I disagree with him on so many levels that it is hard to listen. I respect his point of view, but I think we will not agree.

Great British Energy Bill

Debate between Ed Miliband and Sammy Wilson

2nd reading
Thursday 5th September 2024 Commons Chamber

[Ed Miliband]

The right hon. Gentleman surprises me; he is a brilliant set-up man, and he is welcome any time. I will now explain to him what state ownership will do. Here is why it is the right idea for our time. It is the right idea for energy security, because Great British Energy will invest in home-grown, clean energy that we control, and speed up its delivery. It is the right idea for jobs—this is the learning from all those other countries I mentioned—because Great British Energy will partner with the private sector to create jobs and make sure that we build the supply chains and jobs that the British people deserve.

It is the right idea for creating wealth for Britain. This is what I do not understand about the Conservative party, because state-owned companies from other countries are not investing in these assets as a charitable endeavour; they are doing so to generate wealth for their countries—wealth that flows back to their taxpayers. State ownership is the right idea for creating wealth for Britain, because Great British Energy, through its investments, will help generate return for the taxpayer. To answer the right hon. Gentleman directly, it is right for energy security, it is right for jobs, and it is right for creating wealth for our country.

[Sammy Wilson (East Antrim) (DUP)]

I will not support this Bill tonight. The Secretary of State claims that it will put the British people in ownership of the renewable electricity supply market, but that market is estimated is £50 billion a year. He is proposing to invest £1.6 billion a year. Can he not see the difference that £1.6 billion will make to the overall investment? The infrastructure will still not be owned by the British people.

[Ed Miliband]

The right hon. Gentleman and I have a long history on these issues, which makes me rather old. Indeed, we used to spar about them 15 years ago. He is wrong about £1.6 billion; it is £8.3 billion of investment over the Parliament—a significant sum. Great British Energy will not become EDF overnight—of course not —but the point is that this Government believe in creating a lasting, long-term legacy for Britain, which is what GB Energy will do.