Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Edward Leigh and Andrew Selous

Thursday 18th April 2024 Commons Chamber

[Sir Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con)]

8. Whether the Church has taken recent steps to support the Armenian church in the old city of Jerusalem.

[The Second Church Estates Commissioner (Andrew Selous)]

The Bishop of Southwark has raised this issue repeatedly in the other place over the past six months, and it remains an ongoing and very concerning issue. Only 15 days ago, an unlawful eviction was led by the Israeli police within the premises of the Armenian Patriarchate, with no court orders or permits presented.

[Sir Edward Leigh]

Those of us who are good friends of Israel need to call out the violent activities of the settler movement. The Armenian Christians have enjoyed the best part of 2,000 years in their part of the old city in tranquillity. The appalling incident on 3 April was led not just by thugs but by an Israeli officer called Assaf Harel. Frankly, there was downright intimidation and an attempt to force out Armenian Christians. The Christian population in the old city has declined from 25% a century ago to just 1%. Will the Church of England stand up for Christians in the old city?

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Edward Leigh and Andrew Selous

Thursday 15th June 2023 Commons Chamber

[Sir Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con)]

5. What steps the Church of England is taking to support parish life in small, rural communities.

[The Second Church Estates Commissioner (Andrew Selous)]

Parish ministry is at the heart of the mission of the Church and, per head of population, there is a higher proportion of ministers in rural areas than in urban ones, although I fully recognise how great the loss is to rural areas when they lose their minister. Between 2023 and 2025, the Church Commissioners will distribute £1.2 billion to support the Church’s mission and ministry, which is a 30% increase on the current three-year period, and a significant share of that funding will go towards revitalising parish ministry.

[Sir Edward Leigh]

Rural Lincolnshire has arguably the finest collection of medieval churches in the country and it is a joy to visit them. Many are open through the open churches event organised as part of the West Lindsey Churches Festival. Does my hon. Friend agree that the glory of the Church of England is the parish structure? Does he agree with many of the points made by the Save the Parish campaign, which prioritises keeping our parish churches open and functioning through worship, despite increasing diocesan bureaucracy?

[Andrew Selous]

I completely understand where my right hon. Friend is coming from. His concerns are shared by many colleagues across the House, because they care so much about the great work done in local parishes. If any of the communities in his constituency have candidates for non-stipendiary ministry—or self-supporting ministry, as we call it these days—that might be a way to provide a focal minister at slightly less cost; the Caleb stream might be one way to provide that. The Church of England’s lead bishop for rural affairs, the Bishop of Exeter, has also recently published “How Village Churches Thrive: a practical guide”, which might be helpful to my right hon. Friend’s local churches.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Edward Leigh and Andrew Selous

Thursday 17th November 2022 Commons Chamber

[Andrew Selous]

I am grateful to the hon. Member, and I really appreciate his interest in these matters. As I have said, the Church Commissioners are increasing the funding to the frontline by 30% over the next three years —£1.2 billion—and it needs to go on exactly the type of initiative that he suggests.

[Sir Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con)]

3. What role the Church of England will have in the coronation of King Charles III.

[Andrew Selous]

A service of holy communion will be at the heart of the coronation. The Archbishop of Canterbury, the Earl Marshal and the coronation committee are planning the service, which will be a moment of great national rejoicing and deep spiritual significance.

[Sir Edward Leigh]

I am glad my hon. Friend has emphasised that point. By immemorial custom, the coronation is a deeply religious and spiritual event. Will he convince us that the Church of England will use its influence to ensure that it remains as such, particularly the anointing, and does not degenerate into a kind of dumbed down, wokefest celebration of so-called modern Britain?

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Edward Leigh and Andrew Selous

Thursday 26th November 2020 Commons Chamber

[Sir Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con)]

What representations the Church of England has made to the Government on the importance of public worship during periods of covid-19 lockdown.

[The Second Church Estates Commissioner (Andrew Selous)]

Both archbishops joined other faith leaders earlier this month in writing to the Prime Minister to highlight the importance of public worship. The worship of Jesus is the spiritual fuel that keeps the engine of the Church running.

[Sir Edward Leigh]

Over the past 1,000 years, we have had a fair proportion of saints and sinners as Archbishop of Canterbury, but one thing that we demand of our established Church is that it provides robust leadership against arbitrary government. I do not know whether my hon. Friend noticed that 90 colleagues and I wrote to the Prime Minister on the subject of the closure of churches, but can he assure me, as a voice of the established Church in this place, that if there is any future proposal to prevent public worship, the Church of England will demand evidence—there has never been a shred of evidence—and we will try to save this very important part of public life?

[Andrew Selous]

I not only noted my right hon. Friend’s letter, but was one of the signatories to it. Like him, I know that clergy have worked extraordinarily hard to provide covid-secure services. I felt safer in church than in any other public space I have been in during the pandemic. My right hon. Friend makes a very valid point. I have registered that point very strongly, and I will absolutely feed it through to the leadership of the Church of England.

Psychological Therapies

Debate between Edward Leigh and Andrew Selous

Wednesday 16th October 2013 Westminster Hall

[Andrew Selous (South West Bedfordshire) (Con)]

Like my colleagues, I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Halesowen and Rowley Regis (James Morris) on bringing this important debate before the House. We know from this morning’s radio bulletins that the discussion is topical and timely, and I am pleased to have the opportunity to contribute to it.

My focus will be on the need to broaden the scope of what is offered under IAPT, particularly in relation to couple relationships. I strongly believe that it is hugely in the interests of the NHS and the Department of Health to realise the significance of strong couple relationships to good health, which is essential to protecting the NHS budget. That point is really important—[Interruption].

[Sir Edward Leigh (in the Chair)]

Order. Officials should not talk to a Member of Parliament while the debate is continuing.

Christians in Iraq

Debate between Edward Leigh and Andrew Selous

Tuesday 30th November 2010 Westminster Hall

[Andrew Selous (South West Bedfordshire) (Con)]

It is a great pleasure to serve under you this afternoon, Mr Betts. I am particularly grateful to Mr Speaker for granting me this debate on the position of Christians in Iraq. It follows on from the very well informed debate initiated by my hon. Friend the Member for Gainsborough (Mr Leigh) almost exactly two years ago on 16 December 2008. At that time my hon. Friend told the House that back in 2003, there were some 1.2 million Christians in Iraq and that that number had been reduced to around 600,000 because of the persecution they had suffered. Sadly, since then things have continued to be even more difficult for Christians in Iraq.

It is worth putting on the record the fact that there have been Christians in Iraq since virtually the time of Christ, when doubting Thomas stopped off in what is now modern day Iraq. There are Christians in Iraq who still speak Aramaic, the language that Jesus himself would have spoken, and the tomb of the Old Testament Prophet Nahum is in Iraq with the inscription from Nahum chapter 3 verse 18:

“Your people are scattered on the mountains with none to gather them”—

words which, unfortunately, have an eerily accurate ring to them for Christians in and from Iraq today.

Last week I met in my office in the House of Commons an outstanding member of the Iraqi Government—the Minister for Human Rights, Mrs Wijdan, who is herself a Chaldean Catholic, and Canon Andrew White, the Anglican vicar of St George’s in Baghdad. Andrew is a long-standing friend and one of the most inspirational Christian leaders I have ever met. I learnt from Canon White that in this month alone more than 100 Christians have been killed in Iraq, and 58 were killed in one massacre during evening mass in the Syrian Catholic church of Our Lady of Salvation in Baghdad on 31 October. Since that atrocity many more Christians have also been targeted, blown up or told that they no longer belong to Iraq and should leave now or be executed. This violence has gone on for many years.

Back in August 2004 there was a series of bombings targeting five churches, and 11 people were killed. In October 2006 an Orthodox priest, Boulos Iskander, was snatched in Mosul by a group demanding ransom. Despite payment of the ransom, the priest was found beheaded, with his arms and legs cut off. In June 2007 Ragheed Ganni, a priest and secretary to Archbishop Paulos Faraj Rahh, was shot dead in his church along with three companions. In January 2008 bombs went off outside three Chaldean and Assyrian churches in Mosul, two churches in Kirkuk and four in Baghdad. In February 2008 the Chaldean Catholic Archbishop, Paulos Faraj Rahh, was kidnapped. His body was found in a shallow grave two weeks later. In April 2008 Father Adel Youssef, an Assyrian Orthodox priest, was shot dead by unknown assailants. In February 2010 at least eight Christians died in a two-week spate of attacks in the northern city of Mosul. So it is a pretty sorry state of affairs.

I am well aware that Iraq is still in the process of forming a Government, some eight and a half months after its general election earlier this year. I would request, however, that both British and American Ministers raise these issues with the newly appointed Iraqi Ministers as soon as they can after the formation of the new Government. I also hope that able Iraqi Christian MPs are not held back from Government positions merely because of their faith. When I met Mrs Wijdan last week, she told me that a lot of her requests were very practical ones to do with preventing terrorists from outside Iraq entering her country to kill and injure. She also requested help with counter-terrorism and intelligence to prevent such future atrocities.

I have concerns about aspects of the Iraqi education system regarding what is taught about minority faiths in Iraqi schools. Canon Andrew White told me last week that children in his church are being abused at school because they are Christian, and we know that when such prejudices are taught to the young, they can be very hard to shift. I am of course conscious of the recent media reports that some part-time schools in the UK have textbooks that inflame religious prejudice, so we should acknowledge these issues in our own country as well.

In the debate two years ago on this subject, there was discussion of the possible formation of a 19th province in the Nineveh plains, where there would be a Christian majority which would have control over the police and local militia. It is not for foreign countries to advise Iraq how to organise its internal affairs, but I hope that a major middle eastern country such as Iraq can do better than to opt for any form of segregation or ghettoisation of different faiths. I was impressed by the views of Yonadam Kanna, a prominent Member of the Iraqi Parliament, who is a Christian and was reported on the BBC as saying:

“This is our home, we have been together with Muslims for centuries, this is our destiny, and we will stay together”.

[Mr Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con)]

I obtained a debate on this subject two years ago because, as my hon. Friend knows, I visited Iraq and went to the tomb of Prophet Nahum. More importantly for the purposes of the present debate, I heard some heart-rending stories from mothers who had lost children and husbands. We have a responsibility in this country because, for all Saddam Hussein’s horrendous faults, there was some sort of protection for the Christian community in Iraq. We invaded Iraq and since then the situation for Christians has become deplorable, frightful and murderous. Our Government have some responsibility with respect to the 19th province to make representations and encourage the Government of Iraq to protect that ancient Christian community.

[Andrew Selous]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend who has gone one better than me in going to Iraq and seeing things for himself. I was able only to meet an Iraqi Minister last week, in Parliament. I bow to my hon. Friend’s experience, and thank him for his presence here and his continuing interest in the subject.

Some foreign countries, and Iraqis in exile, have called for greater provision to be made for Christians in Iraq to leave and settle overseas. Again, the view of Canon Andrew White and his congregation at St George’s, Baghdad, is that they wish

“to stay and to be safe”

where they are. That should not be too much to ask for. One issue of concern is the fact that traditionally, churches have been protected by Christian police and military personnel in Iraq. As the persecution of Christians has intensified there have been fewer Christian police and military personnel, at a time when they are most needed. The new Iraqi Government will need to examine that issue, to ensure that all minority communities can be protected, even when there are dwindling numbers of police and military personnel from the faith concerned.

An initiative that has done a lot of good in recent years in promoting tolerance and dialogue between the different faiths in Iraq is the High Council of Religious Leaders in Iraq. It was funded by the United States but I understand that the funding has been stopped. Denmark has now agreed to continue funding the group. Parliament should pay tribute to the Government of Denmark for stepping in to provide funding for that organisation. One of the fatwas produced by the group said:

“Therefore religious and ethical duty calls us as Shia and Sunni religious leaders to announce that all killing must be stopped now whatever the reasons and the cause and the motives between Muslims. We must start reconciliation and tolerance and make them the only way to solve the conflicts between the brothers in our country.”

It goes on to urge all people of faith in Iraq

“to reject and forsake all violence, killing and provocation”

and furthermore says,

“achieving peace and living together under the rule of law is the demand on all Iraqi people and is the religious and ethical duty of everybody to abandon all violence.”

I am sure we would all say amen to that.

In the debate two years ago concern was also expressed about Christian-owned land being taken in the Kurdish north of Iraq. The then Minister of State at the Foreign Office said that he would

“endeavour to discuss it with him”—

the Kurdish regional Government Minister for extra-regional affairs—

“at the earliest opportunity.”—[Official Report, 16 December 2008; Vol. 485, c. 44WH.]