Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Bill

Edward Leigh Excerpts

2nd reading
Friday 29th November 2024 Commons Chamber

[Sir Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con)]

I pay tribute to the hon. Member for Hackney South and Shoreditch (Dame Meg Hillier), and I want to follow her in talking about palliative care. Let me start by reading an email that was sent to me only yesterday by a personal friend and constituent:

“I apologise for adding to the thousands of emails you will be receiving. I just wanted to tell you why I oppose the right to die Bill. I know you are aware of the experience I had when my husband was dying. In hospital we had a dreadful experience because they had no end-of-life care and he suffered. Once in the Hospice it was a different story and he received the loving care he rightly deserved.

My argument is that, instead of assisted dying, we should be spending much more money on end-of-life care and funding the wonderful Hospice movement. Thank you for reading this.”

I will read another letter, from a doctor, which I think encapsulates some of the problems that we encounter in this issue:

“Only recently, I was giving my condolences to a grieving woman who had lost her husband in the early hours. He had been given a few small doses of pain relief and mild sedatives over the last few nights for symptom control and had passed away peacefully at her side. She asked me in all seriousness, ‘Doctor, did the nurses give him something to make him die quicker last night?’ This was an awful lingering doubt that she had. I was able to firmly reassure her that, no, the medication would not have sped up his passing.

For her, and the vast majority of other patients, doctors are there to prolong life and palliate symptoms. Were this to change, then we would not be doctors in the eyes of many, but bringers of death, agents of a state which counts its weakest members as expendable and worthy of nothing but an early grave.

I do not want to be a member of a profession which has that reputation or role”.

Those are two witnesses who have written to me. I have taken an increasing interest in this whole issue of palliative care, and the law frankly—

[Mr Perkins]

Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?

[Sir Edward Leigh]

Will the hon. Gentleman forgive me if I do not? I know that many people want to speak. I just want to develop this argument, then I will finish.

The law is so unclear. I have talked to a number of palliative care specialists, and they say that we can give as much morphine as we want to a patient and we will not kill them, but there is real doubt in the minds of the public. A lot of the impetus around this debate, and the reason why people in opinion polls are apparently supportive of this measure, is that they are terrified of dying in pain. There is no need for this. When I talk to consultants and practitioners in palliative care, they say that they can manage pain. I was struck by a very touching email that was sent to me by a constituent, who actually supports the Bill on the grounds that when his wife was dying, and he was begging the doctor in a national health hospital to give her more morphine, the doctor said, “If I did that, I would be breaking the law.”

I can see the Health Secretary is sitting here, and I really think that if we are going to have a serious debate about this issue, we need to have something equivalent to a royal commission to determine what doctors can and cannot do. It is essential that we really reassure the public. There is tremendous interest in and huge doubt about this issue. Many people are conflicted, and we have heard many moving stories about people’s fear of dying in agony, but until we clear this up, I do not think that we can make the progress that this issue deserves. Yes, we have to fund our hospice movement seriously. It is very worrying that we are going to fund the NHS to fund death, but that we are not adequately funding our hospice movement.

Before we take this momentous decision, we have to be realistic about it: if the Bill were to pass at 2.30 pm, that would be it. I do not believe that a private Member’s Bill, which has only five hours of debate and on which many Members of Parliament will not be given time to speak, is the right mechanism. In the last Parliament, we discussed a certain subject that we all know about—it was a very different issue. We had hundreds of hours of debate, questions and scores of civil servants crawling over the issue. Surely this issue is even more important. Surely we should have had more than just two or three weeks to consider this Bill. We should be looking at the detail, because the devil is in the detail in respect of possible coercion, the facilities available to the hospice movement and the issues I have talked about, including the lack of clarity in the law as to how we can or cannot relieve pain. Can we not pause a moment? Those are the practical points that I want to make.

This is so important: the futures of so many vulnerable people are at stake. I was struck by the comment made earlier by the hon. Member for Brent West (Barry Gardiner) that we cannot consider this issue just in terms of individual hard cases. We must consider it in terms of society as a whole. What sort of society are we? Are we a society that loves our NHS, that loves life, that loves caring and that loves the hospice movement? Or are we a society that believes that there is despair? I will vote for hope at 2.30 and I will vote against the Bill.

Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Bill

Edward Leigh Excerpts

Report stage
Friday 20th June 2025 Commons Chamber

[Sir Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con)]

I have served for many years with the right hon. Member for Hackney North and Stoke Newington (Ms Abbott) and, dare I say it, we have not agreed on everything over the years, but we have published a few articles on this topic. Those articles have always started with the fundamental principle of the NHS. Some of us—maybe myself included—have been rather critical of the NHS over the years, but at least when we go into the NHS, we know that everybody is really trying their best to preserve life. That is the fundamental principle.

The reason why the right hon. Lady and I both oppose the Bill is that, as has been said several times, we are not talking about just a principle here; we are talking about an actual Bill. I know some people will criticise me and say, “Oh, you would oppose this, because of your religious views and all the rest of it.” Actually, I take quite a sensible and, I hope, pragmatic approach to this. I have listened to all these debates, and we have heard so many harrowing stories of people’s last hours. I think we should treat people on both sides of this argument with respect, understand their points of view, and respect the dignity of dying people.

I have always taken the view that we should open up this debate. Actually, I have brought forward a ten-minute rule Bill—which of course will be objected to at half-past 2 this afternoon—saying that we should have a full study, led by the Department of Health and Social Care, by health professionals, to work out how we can help people in their final hours. I have been to many hospices and care homes, and talked to many palliative care specialists who assure me that they have the resources and skills nowadays to make those final hours pain-free and bearable, but we have heard testimony from others saying that that is not possible. If they could convince me that there were some extreme cases where people were dying in agony, totally lacking in dignity in their final hours, then I would listen to those arguments, but I do not think that is the Bill that we have before us today.

I therefore urge Members to remember that we will be voting on a Bill, and I think that the Bill is so riddled through with difficulties and inconsistencies. I think it will be subject to human rights legislation. It is very difficult to argue that we can ask somebody to assist in a person’s death when they are within six months of dying of cancer—although there is no universal testimony or acceptance about how we work out those six months—but not if they are suffering from some appalling degenerative disease or are a quadriplegic or have no quality of life. So I think there is actually an argument that, if we pass this Bill today, we will move in the direction of Canada and we will have death on demand.

I will end on this point. Before voting for this Bill, just pause for a moment and think, “Wouldn’t it be better?” We have heard about the many hours on the abortion Bill, and the universality of clinical acceptance of it. Before we vote for this Bill, do we not think that we should ask the Health Department to have a profound and knowledgeable study, working with the royal colleges, on whether it is possible to have decent palliative care, not just in our wonderful hospices, but in all our hospitals? There is no doubt that in recent years, particularly since Shipman, there has been a fear among many NHS health professionals about providing that degree of palliative care—that degree of morphine, fentanyl or these hugely effective modern drugs.

So, just pause and think. We are not voting on a principle; we can come back to this, and, at a later date, we can get consensus and we can have a really good Bill that will allow everybody to die in dignity.