EEA Nationals (Indefinite Leave to Remain) Bill [HL]

Earl Attlee Excerpts

2nd reading (Hansard): House of Lords
Friday 19th July 2019 Lords Chamber

[The Lord Bishop of Rochester]

My Lords, some hundred yards down the road from my cathedral in Rochester there is an establishment known variously as La Providence or the French Hospital. It is an alms house-type foundation established for those of Huguenot descent. After it was bombed out of its previous premises in the 1940s, a predecessor of mine, the late Bishop Christopher Chavasse, who was himself connected with that community, found premises for it in Rochester—and that is where it remains. That building, which I walk past several times a week, is for me a kind of visual reminder of the spirit of generous welcome shown to that earlier generation of European migrants.

Like other noble Lords, I welcome the Bill and thank the noble Lord, Lord Oates, for bringing it forward. It seems to seek to give practical and statutory expression to that spirit of generous welcome which I referred to, and what it proposes has the benefit of fairness and simplicity: the presumption that a person should be here, and that being here they should remain—in contrast to the scheme we now have where, as others have indicated, whatever its intention, it can feel as if it starts from the opposite presumption, and people are having to prove that they should be here.

These matters are of particular concern to my friends in the Roman Catholic community. The Catholic Bishops’ Conference of England and Wales estimates that, of the 3 million, some 60% would claim some form of Catholic connection or heritage, or active practised faith. However, even in my own Church of England diocese, despite being part of an English Church, I have clergy who are European nationals, and clergy spouses who are European nationals and who are having to go through these processes, and I find more and more people in my congregations—200-plus congregations across west Kent and south-east London—who are EEA nationals, brought here very often for work purposes. They indulge me by allowing me to speak French to them occasionally in various congregations around the place—and German, at which I am rather less proficient.

These are among the people who are making hugely valuable contributions economically and socially in our society, as other noble Lords have already observed. Like the noble Lord, Lord Cormack, I had cause to be treated by the NHS earlier this year, and the consultant who looked after me post surgery was a Polish Catholic who has been here for 30 years—just one example of the kind of people who have committed themselves hugely to the life and well-being of our nation and people.

Many, such as that gentleman, have been here for decades, or even generations. Many are, as we know, closely related to British citizens. We need these folks and it behoves us to make it as easy as possible for them to stay. Indeed, there is an argument of national self-interest here: if we do not make it easy for them to stay, we may be the ones who suffer.

I have a particular question for the Minister to which I hope she will be able to respond. It has been brought to my attention by the Children’s Society and concerns those children and young people who are looked after—who are in care—when we leave the EU. If the noble Lord’s Bill were to pass, it would automatically include them and give them the right of abode. Can the Minister give some assurance about how those incredibly vulnerable children and young people will be treated even if the Bill does not pass?

We have already heard about the complexity of the documentation required. For some of those young people, it is almost impossible to find the documentation to secure the right to remain. There is evidence that local authorities, who are responsible for them—in part, no doubt, because of resource issues—are not always pursuing applications on their behalf, where that is necessary, with the alacrity needed. Legal advice in these cases can be complex and hard to come by. I hope that for this group of vulnerable people in our midst, for whom we have a particular responsibility, the Minister may be able to give some assurance as to how things will stand.

[Earl Attlee (Con)]

My Lords, I too congratulate the noble Lord, Lord Oates, on introducing the Bill. I admire his clarity and care in saying nothing that I do not wholeheartedly agree with.

[Lord Young of Cookham (Con)]

If my noble friend looks at the list, he will find that we were hoping to hear from the noble Viscount, Lord Waverley.

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, I have made this mistake before, many years ago—probably about 24 years ago. So I think we should hear from the noble Viscount first.

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[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, I again apologise to the House for speaking out of turn. The last time I did it was about 24 years ago, to another Viscount—the noble Viscount, Lord Falkland—and I would like to state that both noble Viscounts are very good friends of mine.

I congratulate the noble Lord, Lord Oates, on introducing his Bill today. I admire his clarity and care, shared with other noble Lords, in saying nothing that I do not wholeheartedly agree with. I also approved of his tone.

I am deeply Eurosceptic, but I voted remain because I wanted to preserve strategic stability in Europe. The EU was and is reformable, but it was too difficult to do. Finally, I considered: what did President Putin want us to do? But I am content that we leave with a deal. I strongly support the Bill. Like my noble friends Lord Cormack and Lady Altmann, I am ashamed that my party and this Government have not already legislated, as suggested by the noble Lord. What a perfectly rotten message to send to our EU friends. The noble Lord, Lord Kerr, called it a glaring negotiating error. I absolutely agree. The concession would have cost us almost nothing to make and was inevitable at some point, but it would have set a positive tone.

Several weeks ago, my Romanian taxi driver complained about the application process and its cost. I have to say that I lacked the moral courage to tell her that I was government spokesman for all immigration matters in the House of Lords in 2010 and 2011 and was a Conservative politician—but I can make up for that a bit this afternoon.

I believe that if you are legally in the UK, you are part of the club for as long as you want to be. It is okay to take the view that the UK population is rising too fast and decide to choke off the inflow—but it is not okay to unfairly penalise those who came here legally. We need to remember on immigration that migration is fiscally positive, that free movement allows economic upturns and downturns to be accommodated and that an increase in migration will, generally speaking, give us an increase in GDP. However, we also need to remember that it does not necessarily increase GDP per capita. That might be part of our problem with it.

I have one question for my noble friend. Post Brexit, which EU state will become subject to visa controls? France, Germany, Spain, Italy, Belgium, Holland or Portugal? I think not. So which of the other states will it be?

At some time in the future there will be an immigration Bill. The drafting of this Bill is an obvious amendment to insert in any such Bill. It is not clear to me how the Government would be able to resist such an amendment. As it is a Friday afternoon, the most powerful contribution I can make now is to sit down.

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[Baroness Barran (Con)]

My Lords, I start by echoing the regret voiced by a number of noble Lords at the absence from the Front Bench of the noble Baroness, Lady Hayter. She was one of the first people I met here, because she was supporting the noble Baroness, Lady Bryan, and we were introduced together. She was incredibly warm and friendly then, but I have since witnessed her forensic analysis of legislation and her dignified leadership of the Benches opposite, so I share other noble Lords’ sentiments and hope we see her back on the Bench opposite soon.

I turn to the Bill before us. Since the 2016 referendum, securing the rights of EU citizens in the UK, and those of UK nationals in the EU, has been the Government’s priority, and we are delivering on this commitment. Much of the debate today has centred on questioning the solidity and robustness of that commitment, and I will do my best in the time available to reassure your Lordships that this is indeed the case.

EU citizens have immeasurably enriched this country and our way of life, as noted by my noble friend Lord Cormack. Like the noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, I also had two parents who were immigrants, from slightly further afield but both European, and went to a Catholic school—not the same school as him, but with plenty of similar names.

The Government absolutely share the desire of the noble Lord, Lord Oates, to secure their rights of EU citizens here in an inclusive, accessible and robust way. In my response I will try to cover five areas: the applicability of the right of abode to EEA citizens as currently drafted in the Bill; the relative inclusivity of the EU settlement scheme compared with the Bill; the scheme’s progress; the issue of physical documentation, which a number of your Lordships raised; and, finally, some of the risks implicit with a declaratory system.

The EU settlement scheme has been created to ensure that every EU citizen can secure their right to remain here, whether or not there is a deal to leave the EU. Settled status, or indefinite leave to remain, granted under the scheme provides the holder with the same access to benefits, education and healthcare as those who currently acquire permanent residence under EU law.

Granting a right of abode, as in the Bill, would be inappropriate and unnecessary. Not all British nationals have a right of abode in the UK—only British citizens, together with certain Commonwealth citizens. Others, such as British Overseas Territories citizens, do not have an automatic right of abode, so extending a right of abode to other groups of non-British nationals would mean they have more rights than some British nationals. In common with other Governments over time, we believe this would not be appropriate.

Turning to the scope of protection, we believe that the Bill potentially offers less protection to EU citizens than the Government’s approach. I acknowledge that that is the last thing the noble Lord, Lord Oates, is intending, but that is our analysis. Those applying under the EU settlement scheme are not generally required to show they meet all the requirements of current free movement rules. The UK has decided, as a matter of domestic policy, that the main requirement for eligibility under the scheme is continuous residence in the UK. The noble Baroness, Lady Hamwee, questioned this approach, but I hope noble Lords will agree that the principle of residence is relatively simple. By contrast, under the Bill a person would have to be lawfully resident here—that is, exercising their treaty rights under EU law. This could take many thousands of people out of the scope of protection, including those who are not economically active or self-sufficient and many vulnerable people who may not be exercising their treaty rights here.

I pause on that point, because the noble Lords, Lord Oates and Lord Kennedy, the noble Baroness, Lady Hamwee, and potentially other noble Lords talked about the risks of vulnerable people. Whatever language we use around vulnerability and whatever approach we follow, those groups are the most at risk.

The noble Viscount, Lord Waverley, asked for definitions of family members. There are slightly different definitions in the EU settlement scheme and the Bill, so in the interests of time I hope that he will accept it if I write to him and set out both.

I will now update your Lordships on progress with the EU settlement scheme. The noble Lord, Lord Oates, questioned whether we would be able to reach the 3 million or 3.6 million people we believe are eligible. I am pleased to say that the scheme is running successfully. It was launched fully on 30 March this year, and we believe it provides a simple and streamlined process for resident EEA and Swiss citizens and their family members to obtain status under the UK’s domestic immigration rules. More than 950,000 applications have been received, and more than 850,000 people have already been granted status under the scheme.

The noble Lord, Lord Oates, asked about pre-settled status for those who applied for settled status. We know that 35% of people have been granted pre-settled status, but we do not know what percentage of them applied for settled status. I stress that no application has been refused. I think that is significant when we are at nearly one-third of the figure.

I share the natural scepticism of the noble Baroness, Lady Smith of Newnham, about government IT schemes —I am not sure I am allowed to say that, but it is too late—but this case may be the exception that proves the rule, based on the data we have so far. She also asked about being able to use an iPhone. One can complete the online application on a smartphone, tablet, computer or laptop. The identity verification app, which I think the noble Baroness was referring to, is currently available only on Android devices, but my right honourable friend the Home Secretary has confirmed that it will be available on Apple devices later this year.

The noble Lord, Lord Kerr, and my noble friend Lord Cormack talked about levels of anxiety—I think my noble friend used the term “peace of mind”—about one’s ability to stay in this country. Currently a straightforward application is being dealt with in between one and four days. I acknowledge the anxiety that people might feel, but the process is speedy. I am slightly anxious that the noble Baroness, Lady Hamwee, put the Government in a no-win situation. We are doing it quickly, but she rightly raised a question about whether automation carries risks with it. I think we would prefer to err on the side of a speedy response for those who are waiting for one.

A number of noble Lords asked about help for vulnerable individuals. We are committed to helping vulnerable individuals to obtain their status under the scheme. We have awarded up to £9 million to 57 voluntary and community-sector organisations across the UK to help us reach the estimated 200,000 vulnerable or at-risk EU citizens and help them apply. We are also working closely with local authorities and others to ensure we reach looked-after children, who were mentioned by the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Rochester and the noble Baroness, Lady Hamwee. Local authorities are empowered to apply on behalf of looked-after children and they have been granted sufficient funding to have the capacity to do so. Additional support is available to those who do not have the appropriate access, skills or confidence to apply online.

There has been much debate about physical evidence of settled status. Those granted status under the scheme will be given a secure digital status as part of moving to the system of digital by default. EU citizens will not be issued with a physical document. Unlike many EU countries, the UK does not require people to carry an identity document. Those granted status under the scheme can access this via a secure online service. They can control who they wish to share that information with to demonstrate their status and to exercise their rights. We believe that digital status is more secure. It cannot be lost, stolen or tampered with and is more easily used by people with some disabilities.

In common with the approach advocated by some groups, the Bill would create a declaratory system. As all noble Lords noted, the Government do not agree that conferring leave to remain automatically, by statute, under a declaratory system is the right approach to securing the status of resident EU citizens and their families. A number of noble Lords, including the noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, touched on the experience of members of the Windrush generation. They were granted indefinite leave to remain but without the means of proving that status. We are very anxious not to make the same mistake again. We are concerned that even if we ran a scheme in which, as the Home Affairs Select Committee recommended, obtaining proof of status was conferred by law with an option to apply for physical documentation, it could cause confusion among employers and service providers and impede EU citizens’ access to benefits and services to which they are entitled.

The Government’s approach provides resident EEA and Swiss citizens and their family members with clarity and certainty about their status here. We have already confirmed that, deal or no deal, the EU settlement scheme will continue to operate. I hope that helps to reassure my noble friends Lord Attlee and Lady Altmann, who expressed concerns about this. The Government have made it clear that anyone with reasonable grounds for missing the deadline will be allowed to make a late application.

The noble Lord, Lord Kerr, was concerned about the risk to children. The spirit of the Government’s work in this area is that of creating a fair and compassionate system—we are not seeking to criminalise children.

The Government recognise the invaluable cultural, social and economic contributions that EU citizens make to the UK and as part of many of our families. Quite rightly, we have made generous provision to protect the status of those who have made the UK their home. I of course understand that the Bill seeks to protect those people. However, as I have tried to set out, the mechanism whereby it seeks to do that is not one the Government can support, as we believe that it could create difficulties for those same people and their families in the future. We continue to believe that the EU settlement scheme provides an inclusive route for EU citizens to secure their lives in the UK.

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, the Minister made much of the fact that EU citizens could be in difficulties if they did not exercise treaty rights. Can she undertake to write to us explaining why Clause 2(1)(f) does not provide protection?

[Baroness Barran]

I am happy to do that.