Women’s State Pension Age

Duncan Baker Excerpts

Monday 25th March 2024 Commons Chamber

[Mel Stride]

The hon. Gentleman is a very assiduous and sensible person, and will know that party politics are at play in this issue. The Chancellor has been extremely clear that it is an aspiration to further bring down the level of national insurance across time—across several years, maybe even going beyond the next Parliament. He is quite right to say that, because we are a party that fundamentally believes in low tax.

[Duncan Baker (North Norfolk) (Con)]

Given the demographics in North Norfolk, I probably have one of the most impacted constituencies in the country: over 5,000 WASPI women have been impacted there. We need to be sensible. We all recognise the financial climate that we are dealing with in this country, but the Secretary of State is a very decent man, and this weekend, the Prime Minister intimated that we have always tried to right injustices in this country. WASPI women will be watching this debate; can the Secretary of State at least throw them a lifeline from the Dispatch Box, and give some sort of commitment that we in this country will do everything we possibly can to support as many WASPI women who have been impacted as we can?

[Mel Stride]

The important point is that we must carefully consider the report in its entirety—not just one aspect of it, but all aspects. I have undertaken to the House to do that without undue delay.

Oral Answers to Questions

Duncan Baker Excerpts

Monday 18th March 2024 Commons Chamber

The Secretary of State was asked—

[Duncan Baker (North Norfolk) (Con)]

1. What steps his Department is taking to support financially people unable to work due to serious medical conditions.

[The Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Mel Stride)]

My Department does a great deal to support the long-term sick and disabled, including through universal credit and its health element, and through the personal independence payment, which is a contribution to the additional costs of sickness and disability.

[Duncan Baker]

My constituent Jenifer Picton is currently undergoing extensive treatment for cancer and is consequently unable to work. I wish Ms Picton all the very best with her treatment. She has come to my office, which has helped with universal credit, PIP and the new-style employment and support allowance. She has now managed to get PIP, but given that she is seriously ill, why should she have to come to my office for help? Why do we make it so arduous and difficult for people who need treatment to get help?

[Mel Stride]

I thank my hon. Friend for his question and the typical assiduity with which he takes up his constituency case. May I send my best wishes, and I am sure those of the whole House, to Ms Picton? I am happy to meet him to discuss in more detail the circumstances that he has described.

Saving for Later Life

Duncan Baker Excerpts

Tuesday 7th February 2023 Westminster Hall

[Duncan Baker (North Norfolk) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Hosie. I congratulate the right hon. Member for East Ham (Sir Stephen Timms) on securing the debate. As the Member of Parliament for North Norfolk, I might be expected to speak in a pensions debate. I have said many times in the main Chamber that I represent the constituency with the oldest demographic in the entire country, with 33.4% of my constituents being over the age of 65. However, I am not actually going to talk about that cohort of people, because they have already retired. I am going to talk about an issue that has not been covered much today: giving people—mainly lower-paid people—useful guidance and advice before they retire.

There is a fundamental problem facing society and policyholders: most people tend to glaze over when they hear the word “pensions”. That became clear to me when I was a finance director of a medium-sized company that employed many people, so I can speak with a bit of authority about this. I found that auto-enrolment was a phenomenal success, as has been said many times. The reason is quite simple: we largely reduced the burden of instigating saving and took out the scare factor. Nevertheless, running that company’s pension scheme showed me first hand that if people can put off engaging with their pensions, they certainly will. That becomes a real problem.

The DWP published new research last week on savers’ engagement with their pensions. It said:

“Attitudes to pensions were characterised by detachment, fear, and complacency, which acted as barriers to engagement.”

I suspect that anybody who has been closely involved with pensions will not be surprised by that finding. There is a real problem. I am not talking about people who are well paid, but about the vast majority of the country. For people who are lower paid—perhaps working on a shop floor or in a supermarket—engaging with their pension and their retirement is a long way down their priority list. The reason is that people simply do not understand them, and we know that people often fear what they do not understand.

The Government should strain every sinew to ensure that good paths are put in front of people, rather than expecting savers to direct themselves to those paths for help and advice. There is help, but I suspect that if we asked the average person on the street, hardly anyone would know what the Pension Wise service is. Would they know that it is a Government-backed service that offers free, impartial guidance to over-50s? I doubt it. Would they know that someone can advise them about the options for their pension pot? Probably not. We should be promoting that service far more.

With that in mind, I was disappointed that the Government had a negative response to the recent auto-appointment proposal for Pension Wise appointments, as recommended by the Work and Pensions Committee. Pension Wise is popular and has had a positive impact on the relatively small proportion of savers who use it. User feedback is excellent and much better than policymakers might have reasonably hoped for prior to its introduction.

More importantly, Pension Wise has been proven to leave users better equipped to make pension decisions. That encompasses everything we have talked about. In his excellent speech, the right hon. Member for East Ham said that people are simply recognising that they do not have enough savings in the first place. We ought to ensure that we leave users better equipped to make pension decisions, with the additional benefit of raising awareness of the risks posed, for instance, by scammers. That alone seems like a reason to conduct a trial.

In recent research, the Financial Conduct Authority estimated that a quarter of consumers would consider accessing their pension savings earlier than they had planned due to the current cost of living pressures. We really need to get people to Pension Wise before scammers get to them and before the point where they make pension decisions based on a partial or even incorrect understanding of the consequences. That is the reason why Pension Wise was created; it is a key part of understanding pension freedoms. Indeed, its usefulness to savers presumably explains why the Government decided in 2015 to lower the age threshold for Pension Wise advice from 55 to 50.

Given the phenomenal success of auto-enrolment, about which we all agree, let us pursue auto-appointment to help give the right advice. To sum up, we should repeat that success; we should do what we did with auto-enrolment with auto-appointments, so that people realise there is friendly, decent, professional advice out there. That could take away the reticence, and perhaps sometimes fear, about taking financial advice about retirement. It can be done; we have seen it with auto-enrolment—let us repeat that success with auto-appointments.

Oral Answers to Questions

Duncan Baker Excerpts

Monday 5th December 2022 Commons Chamber

[Mel Stride]

As we focused on in our earlier exchange, the most important thing is that there is a proportionate response to those who are in debt, for whatever reason. It is appropriate that we help people out of debt, and reductions—or deductions—are part of that process. As I explained to the hon. Lady, the maximum that can be taken from the universal credit standard payment is now 25%—it used to be 40%. We are very careful to assess every case on its individual merits, to take into account the circumstances of those impacted.

[Duncan Baker (North Norfolk) (Con)]

T3.   One of my constituents has motor neurone disease. She became disabled after she reached pensionable age and the only support she can now claim is attendance allowance, which, as we know, has no additional mobility element of payment. Others who have the same condition but are under pensionable age can claim and receive the mobility addition. Does my right hon. Friend agree that people on benefits who end up with these health issues should be able to claim for their disability based on a disability and not their age?

[Tom Pursglove]

Nearly 1.5 million pensioners are receiving attendance allowance, at a cost of about £5.5 billion this year. It is normal for social security schemes to contain different provisions for people at different stages of their lives, which reflect varying priorities and circumstances. People who become disabled or develop mobility needs after reaching state pension age will have had no disadvantage on grounds of their disability during their working lives. I understand that that position is long standing, having been in place since the 1970s, under successive Governments.

State Pension Triple Lock

Duncan Baker Excerpts

Tuesday 8th November 2022 Commons Chamber

[Duncan Baker (North Norfolk) (Con)]

Some Members might say that I have something of a vested interest in this motion, given that I represent the oldest cohort of residents in the country. I will say more about that in a moment. I have often stood in this place over the last year and called for the triple lock to be restored, but before that debate is had, I think it important for us to remember why we are having this one. It is important to put on the record again that it was this Government and the then Chancellor, now our Prime Minister, who intervened to provide what were widely deemed to be some of the most comprehensive packages of support not just in this country but in the world to look after the livelihoods of people up and down the land so that they could cope and get through the period of the pandemic financially.

At the time when the Office for National Statistics was considering figures that would make it possible to generate the triple lock uplift last year, it was abundantly clear that a statistical anomaly resulting from people coming off furlough and returning to normal wages had created a bump which meant that, while we were in the grip of a pandemic and did not know quite where the virus would go next, it would be simply unfair not to make a one-off decision to revert to the double lock. We on this side of the House understood that, and I dare say we reluctantly accepted it, but we just did that. It was a year ago on 15 November—which I would just add is my birthday—when I said, on the record, “woe betide us” if we let our pensioners down again. So here we are once more, and in just nine days—that is, two days after my birthday—we will again be listening to the autumn statement that comes along. As my hon. Friend the Member for Guildford said, it is absolutely right that we consider this in conjunction with the OBR report rather than prejudging the event that will take place in nine days’ time.

This is quite some statistic that I am about to give the Secretary of State. Across England and Wales, we in North Norfolk are the oldest local authority with the highest percentage of the population aged 65 and over—33.4% of my population. That is 15% higher than the national average. One in three of my constituents is over the age of 65, and in the last decade alone that figure has increased by 17.8%. So I am not just standing up here and saying this; it really does matter to my constituency, because 27.8% of those constituents are retired, and that alone is roughly double the national average. Even further than that, 4.8% of my constituents are over the age of 85.

The argument has already been made that with inflation running at 10%, it is unfeasible for people who are on a fixed income, and certainly those who are 85 and over, to go out and earn their way out of a difficult set of bills, even though the Government have enormously supported them with many interventions to help them at this difficult time. The Prime Minister has stood at the Dispatch Box and said many times that he will protect the most vulnerable and that he will be fair and compassionate. I believe that he will be; he certainly was during the pandemic when he was Chancellor. So I do believe that in just nine days’ time the right decision—the moral and ethical decision—will be made, that the triple lock will be returned and that the one in three constituents I represent in North Norfolk who are affected will get what they have paid into all their lives.

Automatic Pension Enrolment

Duncan Baker Excerpts

Wednesday 26th January 2022 Westminster Hall

[Duncan Baker (North Norfolk) (Con)]

I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Grantham and Stamford (Gareth Davies) for getting us all up so early—9.30 am on a Wednesday—to talk about our favourite subject, which is clearly auto-enrolment.

I will start by being very rude and saying that we often see private Members’ Bills introduced that are nothing more than political graffiti. However, the one recently introduced by my hon. Friend the Member for North West Durham (Mr Holden) on this issue is far from that, and we should give a great deal of consideration to how it fits with this debate. People might expect me to say that, because I am an old bean-counter. Before I came into this place I was a former finance director, and I remember with utter dread the systems and processes that we had to implement to deal with auto-enrolment.

Although most people tend to glaze over when we talk about pensions—present company excepted, obviously—this idea is really sound. That is because, let us face it, we are living in an ageing population all of the time, and in any person’s view the need to save for our retirement is extremely important; and the crux of the matter is that the sooner someone does it and has the opportunity to do it—two important parts of what we are discussing today—the better for society. After all, many people will have in their pension savings the highest asset that they will ever hold.

The other reason that this debate is so important to me is because I am going to do something that not many MPs do in this place—admit how wrong I have been about things. Yes, I will now say that I made a mistake. That is because I remember the days when auto-enrolment first came in—my hon. Friend the Member for Grantham and Stamford makes me feel very old, because 2005 feels like a very long time ago—and I remember that at the time I thought, “What a waste of time auto-enrolment is.” I bemoaned how much it would cost us as a company, and the meaningful contributions that people would make were so small when auto-enrolment first started that it was a total nuisance to administer and I wondered whether it would really make much of a difference, precisely because people’s contributions were so low. In addition, I expected that people would simply opt out—that there would be a knock on the door three months later and someone would ask, “Duncan, can you please take us out of this scheme?” But people did not, and that is because the Government got it right. They made those initial contributions so low that people got used to it.

So, on those two counts, I got it completely wrong. That is why I back what my hon. Friends the Members for Grantham and Stamford and for North West Durham are proposing, because with nearly 90% of people now participating in a workplace pension, old cynics like me have been proved totally wrong. The fact that we now have 10 million workers in an auto-enrolment scheme in this country is a testament to how extremely good auto-enrolment has been. It has created momentum—momentum for people to take responsibility and save for their retirement.

My constituency of North Norfolk is very beautiful, but we have a disproportionate number of lower earners. It is a coastal community; hospitality and retail are very important, and therefore form a chunk of lower earners. Why are we not making it easier for everybody to contribute, to allow younger people—that rump of my workforce—to have that chance earlier? All the statistics show that they will reap the benefits of getting started on that ladder earlier. It is a very simple proposal, but it has far-reaching consequences. If it opens up more people to take that responsibility, to be able to earn for their retirement, I think it is extremely worth considering and I am very happy to back it.

Oral Answers to Questions

Duncan Baker Excerpts

Monday 13th December 2021 Commons Chamber

[The Minister of State, Department for Work and Pensions (Chloe Smith)]

Statutory sick pay is just one part of our welfare safety net and the wider Government support offered to people in times of need. We have been able to look closely at statutory sick pay during the pandemic, but more consideration is needed and it certainly should not be looked at in isolation.

[Duncan Baker (North Norfolk) (Con)]

T5. I have a constituent on the legacy benefit system for whom it might be beneficial to move to universal credit. What help and advice is there in making that switch, and what further considerations should he take into account going forward?

[Dr Coffey]

My hon. Friend is right to point out the opportunities for people on legacy benefits. They may be better off on UC, but if not, they should wait for the managed migration programme, where they will have transitional protection. It is also important to note that benefits calculators are readily available online, and the Department funds Citizens Advice and Citizens Advice Scotland for the help to claim programme. I am sure such organisations can give individual support. We will be resuming our plan to move to UC in 2022.

Social Security (Up-rating of Benefits) Bill

Duncan Baker Excerpts

Consideration of Lords amendments
Monday 15th November 2021 Commons Chamber

[Jonathan Reynolds]

With respect, the Minister just needs to listen to this point. He stands at the Dispatch Box and, like all Ministers, tells us that black is white. For instance, when the Government reacted to the crisis of their own making—when we saw the pumps run dry and the shelves go sparse—they claimed to the country that this was a secret masterplan towards a high-wage economy that they had had all along. Now, we are having to see the Minister and the Government tie themselves in knots again, because he has been sent here to make the case, which we have heard him put very well, that the figure is too distorted and therefore we need this primary legislation, yet—and this is the problem, Minister—according to the Prime Minister, wages are up, workers have never had it so good and that is why the Government can cut £20 a week from universal credit. They are making two completely opposing arguments. We do not even know whether the Government believe that wages are rising faster than inflation. I politely say to the Minister that they cannot expect to have it both ways.

I will repeat a number of points that colleagues may have heard me say before, but I feel they need to be repeated in light of some of the media comments on the Bill. The uprating of the state pension is relevant to millions of pensioners in this country, but it is wrong to present it as an issue of intergenerational unfairness. That is because these decisions are also fundamentally about how we ensure that the state pension is indexed and retains real value for people who are in work today when they come to retire. This Government have been grossly unfair on people of working age, but frankly that is due to the burden of taxes they have inflicted on workers, rather than through the operation of policies such as the triple lock.

I hope the Minister took on board the comments made about pensioner poverty in this House and the other place. The Government’s use of what they call absolute poverty, which in reality is a measure of poverty relative to a fixed line in 2010, is unsatisfactory because not only does it ignore the statistical evidence, which is that pensioner poverty is now rising after it fell considerably under Labour, it also limits a serious debate on the drivers of that rise. The big picture is that the OBR predicts that as a country we will be spending an extra £6 billion a year, year-on-year, on pension-age benefits every year up until 2024-25. That is the year that the forecasts in the welfare trends report go up to, so it will likely continue to rise after that. Pensioner poverty is going up as spending rises substantially. We should be having a much more substantive debate about that, looking at housing costs, energy prices, food and access to good financial and investment advice. The way in which the Government present their own progress means that any real wage growth over the last decade allows them to claim that poverty has declined, so when the Minister says that 200,000 pensioners have been lifted out of poverty since 2010, the reality is that that is a very poor level of performance compared with all previous Governments. Poverty is always relative, because it is a measure of whether someone has the means to live a fulfilling life in the society of which they are a member. That is not just a left-of-centre viewpoint, but one that until recently was accepted by Conservatives, too.

However, to return to the matter at hand, the House of Lords has sent us an amendment that should genuinely command the support of the whole House. It requires the Government to maintain the earnings link in their manifesto promise, while still making allowance for the pandemic. This Government have dragged politics through the gutter in recent weeks, with stories of sleaze, corruption, contracts for donors and second jobs from Caribbean islands. I could go on, but the point is that public trust in this place matters. When the Government muddy our democracy in the way that they have, they cannot then turn to the public and ask voters to simply take them at their word. For public trust to return, the first step has to be for the Government to keep their promises. Today, Labour will therefore support the amendment that would allow the Government to keep their promise on the pensions triple lock.

The Lords have sent us a very reasonable set of measures, and frankly I see no logical reason not to support them if we want to protect the link between earnings and pensions. If the Government are unable to do so, they should admit what is really going on: they are using the pandemic as a smokescreen to scrap the triple lock and pocket the savings. They should cut the obfuscation, keep their promises and vote for the Lords amendments.

[Duncan Baker (North Norfolk) (Con)]

As the MP for North Norfolk, which has some of the highest numbers of older people in the country, you can understand, Madam Deputy Speaker, why I want to speak briefly in this debate. First, we have come back to basics. I was a finance director and a chartered accountant before I came into this place, so I have a reasonable grasp of statistics, and it is fair to say that this Government have, to the tune of around £400 billion, safeguarded the country through a pandemic that no one ever expected. Not only that, but the national debt sits at some £2.2 trillion, so it is understandable that we are sitting here this evening being extremely careful and prudent about what we do with our public finances.

The electorate, as we have seen many times before, will forgive a Government many things, but they will not forgive a Government being reckless with the public finances. We have to understand that, much as we would like to increase pensioners’ pay, every 1% increase costs the Exchequer a billion pounds. To put that in perspective, with an increase of some 8% to 9%, we are looking at an increase of some £8 billion to £9 billion. I can therefore see entirely how that would sit when we have to look in the eye of a prison officer, a police officer, a teacher, a firefighter or any other public sector worker who has seen their pay frozen for the past year. That is the real context. It is about fairness and a statistical anomaly caused by the dip, coming off furlough on to 100% pay and when the ONS statistics were taken. It has given rise to this one-off statistical anomaly.

What the House of Lords has proposed is sensible, and I took that to the Secretary of State to ask whether we could do something to still honour the framework of the triple lock, while ensuring that we have a sensible parameter to measure it by. The answer that came back was exactly the same as the one the excellent Minister just gave: we need a robust metric. We cannot just move the goalposts and cherry-pick a point in time because the argument does not fit at the moment. Many of my constituents have written to me about this issue, and when a detailed reply has gone back to them, a great number understand why we have this one-off double lock.

In summing up, I say two things to the Minister. First, woe betide us if we do not honour the triple lock next year. We have some of the best public finances recovery in the G7, as the Chancellor said the other week, so we must get back to giving our pensioners the pay increases they absolutely deserve, because they have paid in all their lives. Secondly, it would be wonderful to go into the next election with the resounding message that our pensions are good, honest pensions that people have earned all their lives, at a level that people can be proud of compared with Europe. Too often, our pensioners feel that is not necessarily the case. I would like the Minister to ensure that we put our pensioners at the front of the queue as we come out of this pandemic. I wholly understand what he has said this evening. I will be rejecting the Lords amendment, because it is sensible to maintain the public purse in the best possible way at a time like this, so that our country can rebound from where we are at the moment.

[David Linden (Glasgow East) (SNP)]

It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for North Norfolk (Duncan Baker), who spoke about the risks of throwing a billion pounds about here and there. I know he was not in the previous Parliament, when the Government were propped up by the Democratic Unionist party, but I recall them having no great difficulty finding a billion pounds down the back of the sofa. Indeed, I think the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) was worth about £100 million, which is probably more than Messi.

Unlike the Minister, I am glad to see the Bill back in the House this evening, because the amendments passed by their lordships give the Government an opportunity to perform a U-turn with ermine grace and charm. Before it went back to the other place, the Bill as originally drafted facilitated the British Government breaking yet another manifesto commitment, namely the pensions triple lock, which I remind the House all parties in this Chamber committed to at the election fewer than two years ago. Thankfully, the Bill was amended in the other place, and I am grateful to Baroness Altmann for Lords amendments 1 and 2, which seek to restore the earnings link.

As we are relatively short on time, I will not go over some of the meatier issues that I outlined on Second Reading, including the Government’s repeated breach of their manifesto commitments, the worrying trends in pensioner poverty, pension comparisons with OECD countries and the—at best—disappointing lack of action on pre-existing equalities that are baked into our pension system. In speaking in favour of the Lords amendments, I will outline why the SNP continues to vote to respect its 2019 election manifesto commitment and why the Budget has changed things, which may result in more Opposition Members voting tonight than on Second Reading.

The Minister will have familiarised himself with the House of Lords Official Report, but in the interests of completeness and for the benefit of Hansard, I remind the House of what Baroness Altmann said on the cost of living crisis, which affects all the constituents we seek to represent in this House. She reminded the other place of the Government’s view that

“the 3.1% figure would still protect against rises in the cost of living.”—[Official Report, House of Lords, 2 November 2021; Vol. 815, c. 1140.]

She quoted the Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, the hon. Member for Hexham (Guy Opperman) who said that that figure

“will ensure that pensioners’ spending power is preserved and that they are protected from the higher cost of living”.—[Official Report, 20 September 2021; Vol. 701, c. 86.]

However, the goalposts have moved, and the fiscal outlook is much bleaker. The Chancellor conceded in the Budget that inflation in September was already at 3.1% and would rise further. The Office for Budget Responsibility has gone further, predicting that consumer prices index inflation will reach 4.4% next year. It went on to say that inflation

“could hit the highest rate seen in the UK for three decades”,

which the House will know is about 7.5%. In reality, the Bank of England’s chief economist is forecasting 5%. To be blunt, the facts have changed and the Government must now change their position at least to reflect the fiscal outlook, if not to respect their manifesto commitment.

Pensioners across these islands are not immune from rising energy and food costs, and we know that inflation is biting hard for some of the most vulnerable people in our constituencies as we approach a harsh winter. Last month, energy bills rose by 12%, and food bills have also risen, so the Government must think again.

Oral Answers to Questions

Duncan Baker Excerpts

Monday 17th May 2021 Commons Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Will Quince)]

I have explored this issue, which is a little bit more complicated than the hon. Lady makes out. We have been working with housing associations. I would be very happy to sit down with her and have a briefing on the matter with officials.

[Duncan Baker (North Norfolk) (Con) [V]]

I welcome the DWP’s commitment to delivering an improved welfare system for people with a terminal illness, and I hope that it can be delivered very soon. Can my hon. Friend confirm that the proposals to change the special rules will not be included in the upcoming Green Paper, which would result in further delay and would be unnecessary, as the DWP has already consulted stakeholders?

[Justin Tomlinson]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. The SRTI—special rules for terminal illness—evaluation has been completed and will not need to be rerun through the forthcoming Green Paper.

Pension Schemes Bill [Lords]

Duncan Baker Excerpts

Report stage & 3rd reading & 3rd reading: House of Commons & Report stage: House of Commons
Monday 16th November 2020 Commons Chamber

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing)]

I hope that we can manage the rest of the debate without a formal time limit, because the debate flows better without one. I note that the Minister has been asked to deal with a variety of subjects at the end of the debate. If Members would like the Minister to have time to address their concerns, I implore them to speak for no more than seven or eight minutes. If that is the case, we will manage without a time limit and there will be time for the Minister to respond to the debate.

[Duncan Baker (North Norfolk) (Con)]

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I will cut my speech down from the hour or so that I was planning.

It is a privilege to follow the hon. Member for Cardiff South and Penarth (Stephen Doughty) and his powerful and moving speech. It has been a privilege to speak on Second Reading, in the Public Bill Committee and now on Report. It is the first time, as a new MP, that I have seen a Bill through all its stages.