Oral Answers to Questions

Douglas Ross Excerpts

Tuesday 4th June 2019 Commons Chamber

[Robert Buckland]

I think the work being done to recruit extra prison officers and the extra finance and resource given to my Department by the Treasury are allowing us to return to a position of greater safety. I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his remarks, but I have to say to him that my experience of prisons stretches back a generation, and I know that many of the issues relating to prisons take a long time to resolve, but that will not stop me having a sense of urgency when it comes to dealing with problems of drugs, violence and safety more generally.

[Douglas Ross (Moray) (Con)]

5. What assessment he has made of the role of sport in rehabilitating prisoners.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice (Edward Argar)]

Participation in sport and physical activity in custody can have benefits for the physical and mental health of prisoners, as well as building confidence, teamwork skills, discipline and improving prospects of successful rehabilitation and resettlement in the community. We have recently published Professor Rosie Meek’s independent review of the role of sport in youth justice, and our own internal review of sport in the adult estate. Sport is an integral part of our approach to rehabilitation in prison.

[Douglas Ross]

I refer the House to my declaration of interest. The twinning project led by David Dein aims to take football into prisons to improve behaviour and reduce reoffending, and the Football Association referees department is now hoping to run referee courses alongside that, with Lancaster Farms Prison the first to offer the course. I know that the skills referees gain go far beyond officiating at match. Does the Minister agree that that element and the twinning project could have a very positive impact on the prisoners they work with, and will he encourage more prisons to get involved?

[Edward Argar]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right, and I acknowledge his interest as a qualified international referee, with skills that, on occasion, you probably put to good use in this House, Mr Speaker. I completely agree that the football twinning project, brilliantly led by David Dein, is hugely important and can have a positive effect on offenders. We have been working with FA referees to develop a bespoke referee course for prisons. Four pilot prisons have been identified to deliver this groundbreaking intervention, with the first course due to start in late summer at HMP Lancaster Farms, as my hon. Friend said. We all recognise the power of sport and we are determined to harness it.

Oral Answers to Questions

Douglas Ross Excerpts

Tuesday 5th February 2019 Commons Chamber

[Mr Gauke]

We certainly have no plans to do so, but on the subject of human rights, I am a little surprised that we are getting lectured by the hon. Gentleman, who will not condemn the Venezuelan regime.

[Douglas Ross (Moray) (Con)]

T2. Body-worn video cameras are available to every prison officer in England and Wales, but they are not routinely provided in Scotland. Will the Minister outline the benefits to both prisoners and officers of those cameras and encourage the Scottish Government to follow this Government’s lead?

[The Minister of State, Ministry of Justice (Rory Stewart)]

We often pay tribute to the Scottish Government, but I am proud to say that we are ahead of them on this. We have rolled out body-worn cameras, which are making an enormous difference to safety in prisons. We are also ahead of the Scottish Government in having fully smoke-free prisons. There is something, at least, that Scotland can learn from us.

Court Closures and Reform

Douglas Ross Excerpts

Tuesday 27th March 2018 Westminster Hall

[Douglas Ross (Moray) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Gray. I congratulate the hon. Member for Slough (Mr Dhesi) on securing the debate.

I speak with a Scottish element. I will not take up too much time as that is not the remit of this Parliament, but it provides the experience of similar changes north of the border. I was my party’s justice spokesperson in the Scottish Parliament at a time when a number of courts were closed by the Scottish National party Government. The Library briefing for this debate states:

“Successive governments”

—of both political persuasions—

“have identified the courts estate as a target for efficiency savings”.

It states that that is for two main reasons:

“The first is that the utilisation rate of some courts is low…The second is the policy aim of reforming access to justice through modernisation, and by increased use of technology in particular.”

I want to focus on both those points in terms of what we have been discussing today and what we have been through in Scotland. Between November 2013 and January 2015, 10 courts were closed in Scotland for exactly the reasons mentioned in the briefing. Those closures were objected to by many people across the political spectrum—even SNP Members, although ultimately when it came to a vote, they voted with the Government. It is useful to look at Scotland as an example. Figures uncovered by the Scottish Conservatives in November last year show that in the previous year, only three of the 39 sheriff courts across Scotland met the target for dealing with 100% of cases within 26 weeks of someone getting a citation or caution. We have seen the impact that closing 10 courts across Scotland has had on the remaining courts. The problems are getting worse. In the past year, Elgin sheriff court in Moray has not once met its target to deal with 100% of cases in 26 weeks.

I also want to speak about digitalisation. I understand the concerns that the hon. Member for Slough has articulated, but there are great benefits. We are behind the curve in Scotland. Lord Carloway did a review in 2015 of evidence and procedure. He was a very good person to do the review, because in 2013 he said that there should be “clear sky thinking” about digitalisation in our courts system. We are no further on from his comments in 2013 or his report in 2015. We are still suffering as a result of the lack of use of digital in our court system in Scotland and the rest of the UK.

Lord Carloway said:

“Police Scotland is currently migrating to a unified IT system, known as i6”—

that was a computer programme that Police Scotland was going to take in—

“which will resolve the inconsistencies currently experienced because of the incompatibilities of the legacy systems from the eight predecessor forces.”

He said that in his report in 2015. We are now in 2018, and Police Scotland has abandoned its plans to introduce i6. Three years on, we have not resolved the issues. In fact, the issues remain. He also spoke about a

“digital evidence vault to securely store all documents, audio, pictures and video content, preserving citizens’ privacy”.

There is now an evidence vault, but it is rarely used, because lawyers and the police are not happy with it. There are still problems with getting digital to have an impact in our courts. It would have great benefits.

When I was on the Justice Committee, we did an inquiry into the issue. We were looking at the role of the Lord Advocate and the Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service. We were given an example of a case that had been given a date. Everyone turned up—the witnesses turned up, the accused turned up and the defence was ready. Then they said that they were not able to view the key piece of evidence, which they had had months and months to look at. It was a CCTV image. When the police had copied it on to a disc and given it to the defence solicitors, the defence solicitors could not view it on their DVD player. Witnesses had travelled a considerable distance. We had the cost of the court sitting that day only for the case to be put back again to get a new disc produced that was compatible with the defence solicitors’ DVD player and Police Scotland’s DVD player. It is 2018, and we still have such instances. They are causing delays in our court system, which is causing significant strain on our resources and considerable difficulties to witnesses and victims. They are turning up for trials, which are being put off and delayed because what we are doing is not in the modern era.

Since Lord Carloway’s report, there has been some progress on child and vulnerable victims, but not enough. I listened carefully to what Members have said, but I think that part of the barrier is the legal profession itself. It may be ironic that Members of this House are speaking about moving into a more modern age, but there seems to be resentment of change in some parts of the legal system. It has been their career, and their lifestyle has been immersed in a more traditional way of doing things, but we have got to overcome that. We are in the modern era, and there are modern technologies that we can adapt and use in our court systems. We should look to do that.

In conclusion, the Minister is obviously carefully considering the changes being proposed for England and Wales. She has to take care with those changes. I have no doubt there will be many benefits, but there will also be some dangers. I urge her not to do what the SNP Government have done in Scotland, which is to ignore all the warnings and forge ahead with the changes regardless. By doing that, the SNP has introduced changes that have resulted in our justice system suffering north of the border. More crucially than that, our victims and witnesses are being let down by justice in Scotland just now.

--- Later in debate ---

[Jim Shannon]

I thank my hon. Friend for his intervention. I will tell the story from my constituency, as the hon. Member for Moray told his constituency’s story. It is wonderful to discover that things in my constituency are very similar to those in Moray, because things happen that are universal across the whole United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

The Northern Ireland Department of Justice proposal was to reduce the court estate from 20 to 12—a 40% reduction. That is a massive reduction, and that did not include the courts that had already closed, including smaller courthouses such as a neighbouring one in Bangor, the closure of which was a downwards step. I believe that the level of closures was disproportionately high compared with the closures in England and Wales referred to in the Department of Justice consultation paper; there was a 28% reduction in 2010. That level of culling of courthouses in Northern Ireland was not necessary or beneficial, and did not provide basic access to local justice.

Newtownards courthouse has a significant volume of business. I want to put something important on record that relates to the reasons for retaining that courthouse: it is the busiest court outside Belfast and Londonderry, dealing with all types of specialised court business—civil, criminal and family. It is now a specialist centre for children’s courts, youth courts, magistrates courts, civil courts and Crown courts. The work of that courthouse has increased, taking a bit of pressure off the larger ones. Many disability living allowance and other benefit appeals are now held there, because the safety and security aspect is much better. That is important not only for confidentiality but for those who attend. The courthouse is now seen as thriving and constantly busy. It also brings business to the local coffee shops. The spin-off from the courthouses to the surrounding area can never be ignored, and shops in the town must also be taken into consideration.

The idea of taking justice from Ards to Belfast without just cause, closing the courthouse after spending almost £1 million on refurbishing it—the hon. Member for Slough referred to the spend on another courthouse—made no sense. Asking people to make the journey from Portaferry to Belfast made even less sense, and would in itself have been a barrier to justice, as the courts there are already overworked. The Department’s target that people should be able to reach a courthouse within an hour by car is fine for those who have a car in which to travel, but for too many people it is a matter of catching a bus or train. The hon. Member for Thirsk and Malton (Kevin Hollinrake) spoke about people having to make three bus changes to get to a new court. That is illogical and unfair. Catching a bus or train rarely, if ever, takes less time than it takes someone to jump into their own car.

Another important point is that people have to be at court at a particular time. They have to get up at whatever time is necessary and get on buses or trains to ensure that they arrive in advance. The hon. Gentleman referred to a four-hour journey for some people to get to court on public transport. The hon. Member for Dwyfor Meirionnydd (Liz Saville Roberts)—I hope I said that right, Mr Gray; my Welsh accent is atrocious, but I tried very hard to grasp those two words—mentioned that as well. The issue of distance is very real to all of us in the Chamber.

I do not find the mentality of “Oh, what’s an hour’s drive?” acceptable. I do not accept it in my constituency of Strangford. I therefore support my hon. Friend the Member for Slough, if I can call him that, in his stand against the reforms in his constituency. The good news is that we managed to overturn them in ours. The legal community, the community of Newtownards, elected representatives, the local council and elected representatives from the Northern Ireland Assembly managed to combine our efforts and present an evidence base to Ministers to overturn the “economy savings” in my constituency by proving that it was a false economy. Ministers accepted that, and we now have a thriving and retained service in Newtownards as a result.

[Douglas Ross]

I am listening to the hon. Gentleman’s passionate speech about what happened in Northern Ireland, and how the Assembly listened to the concerns of the local community and experts. The Scottish Government and the Scottish National party failed to do that north of the border. There was clear evidence from experts and local communities that the 10 closures over two years would be damaging. We are now seeing that in Scotland, but the Scottish Government and the SNP would not listen.

[Jim Shannon]

I will not get involved in the local politics, but I will say that it is important always to listen to the evidence.

I trust that the hon. Member for Slough will succeed in showing that what matters more than the red or black line in the accounts is accessible justice—enabling victims to come to court and do what needs to be done, without being stressed by additional worries about journeys, bus routes or anything else. We should enable victims to have time to speak with their solicitor, rather than their solicitor being on the commute, unavailable to meet them until the court time. There are so many ways in which a victim is better supported by a court that is close to hand rather than removed. I know that the Minister has listened intently to all the comments in the Chamber, and will listen to those of the shadow Minister. I hope that the Minister will take on board those viewpoints and the evidential base for keeping courthouses in place.

Death by Dangerous Driving: Sentencing

Douglas Ross Excerpts

Wednesday 28th February 2018 Westminster Hall

[Eddie Hughes]

I completely agree with my hon. Friend. People need to understand that when they are in control of a vehicle, it is a lethal weapon, and that is manslaughter.

[Douglas Ross (Moray) (Con)]

I thank my hon. Friend for the excellent speech he has delivered so far and the harrowing local cases he has explained. In Scotland over the last five years we have had 166 convictions for death by dangerous driving. However, many of the concerns he has raised in England are also pertinent in Scotland, where there are concerns about the overly lenient sentences. Does he agree that this is an issue that the devolved Administrations must also look at?

[Eddie Hughes]

I completely agree. The crime is the same, regardless of where in the United Kingdom it is committed, and the impact is felt equally.

The time has come. The Government must now make Government time available to implement the change. We must ensure not only that those who kill while speeding face the full force of the law, but that there is a new charge for those who fail to stop at the scene of an accident. On that point, I completely agree with Brake, the road safety charity, which said:

“There needs to be a new charge of ‘failing to stop following a fatal or serious injury crash’. This would not have any requirement to prove the driver who failed to stop caused the crash, as there can be an assumption that if they fled, they caused it. This is necessary because, at present, British law acts as an incentive for the worst law-breaking drivers to flee a crash if they kill someone. If a drink or drug driver kills someone and remains at the scene, they are likely to be tested for alcohol or drugs, prosecuted for ‘causing death by careless driving when under the influence of alcohol or drugs’, and face up to 14 years’ imprisonment. But if they run away and sober up, and there was no other evidence of careless or dangerous driving, they can only be prosecuted for the minor offence of ‘failing to stop or report an accident’, which carries a paltry maximum sentence of six months. If someone steals a car, kills someone and remains at the scene, they will be identified by the police as driving a stolen car. They can be prosecuted for ‘aggravated vehicle taking’ and face a maximum 14 years’ imprisonment. Much better to flee, ditch the car, and hope never to be identified. Drivers who hit and run are despicable: to escape the law, they leave behind suffering and dying victims in need of urgent medical attention. The law must be changed to remove this incentive to flee.”

This Government are on the side of those affected by atrocious crimes of that kind. We sympathise completely with the families of those affected and we understand the need to send a strong message to the public that we will come down hard on those who show total disregard for the lives of others.

I will finish by asking two things of the Minister. First, I ask him to listen to the thousands of people who have already backed the campaign by the Express and Star asking the Government to implement tougher sentences for killer drivers. Secondly, I ask him to listen to the call from Brake, the road safety charity, to create a new offence of failing to stop following a fatal or serious injury crash. Let us work together to ensure that fewer families have to grieve for the loss of loved ones. Let us stop the speeders.

Prisoners: Outdoors Endurance Activities

Douglas Ross Excerpts

Wednesday 31st January 2018 Westminster Hall

[Douglas Ross (Moray) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Howarth.

I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for South Dorset (Richard Drax) on securing today’s debate. When I saw its title, I immediately wanted to get involved, because it was about activity and prison. I lead an active lifestyle because I am a football referee, and many of the spectators who watch me say that my decisions are so criminal I should be locked up for them, so that is where I thought I would go with the debate. Then I realised we were talking about something totally different.

My remarks are initially from a Scottish perspective, because the scheme originated in Scotland in 1994. I looked at some of the figures from and studies of the Airborne scheme, which, sadly, only lasted a decade. I found out that 58% of the offenders who started the scheme successfully completed it, and only the ones at the high end and those involved with drugs struggled. Crucially, among those who participated in the Airborne scheme in Scotland, reconviction rates were reduced by 21% in comparison with people who had been offered alternative actions during their time in prison. That was a crucial point—it was a successful scheme. Other things have happened in Scotland, but I can see why that one was taken on board south of the border and why we are having this debate to explain its merits.

Given my limited knowledge of the debate from the title, I sought a briefing on it from the House of Commons Library. I was very disappointed that the Library staff said, “We can’t give you a briefing, because we know absolutely nothing about it.” That is why the debate is important and why it is right for my hon. Friend to take the matter forward. We must get the message of that successful scheme out there and encourage its extension, if required, to ensure that its benefits are felt far further afield.

I also want to speak about exercise within the prison population. As I was looking for other things to discuss in this debate, I spoke to one of our researchers, David Robertson, who works for another Scottish Conservative MP. I told him I was going to speak about endurance activity and prison, and he said to mention John McAvoy.

I had not heard of John McAvoy until about an hour ago, but he is a fantastic and inspirational character who spent 10 years behind bars. At the age of 16 he owned a sawn-off shotgun and robbed security vans. At 18, he was sentenced to five years in prison for armed robbery. He got out two years later, and he was immediately re-arrested in a flying squad operation and sentenced to life imprisonment in Belmarsh Prison. On his very first day he wondered why there were so few people in the exercise yard with him. Then he noticed that one of the people with him was Abu Hamza, and it suddenly dawned on him the type of people he had been incarcerated with.

John McAvoy spent some time feeling bitter about being in prison, but decided to get fitter. He had a fitness regime of 1,000 press-ups, 1,000 push-ups and 1,000 sit-ups every day. He then became an amazing rower, broke the British record for rowing a marathon and smashed the world record for distance rowing in 24 hours. He did all that because he decided not to waste his time in prison, but to get involved in endurance sport and to carve out a career in it. He decided that his life was no longer going to be around the crime family that he was brought up in and that had led him to spend a decade behind bars, but that he would use his time in prison to get fitter and become an international athlete.

John McAvoy has written a book called “Redemption”, which is about how he took part in the London to Brighton footrace. I was gripped by the opening pages, which I read before I came here today. He tells us how he and No. 76 ran along and completed the race, and at the end of his opening remarks he describes how he went home, fell asleep on the couch and the next day returned to prison. So he did all that endurance racing while he was still a prisoner.

Now John McAvoy is a motivational speaker who goes out and encourages people who have been in prison, and who are ashamed of what they have done and do not want to be labelled with it in their future. He describes how he got involved in the local rowing clubs in London, and how people there were not ashamed to be associated with him, but wanted to help him. For me, that exemplifies how sport can be a great bridge for some people, and a great leveller. People can use it to overcome their past problems and look to a far better future.

I thank my hon. Friend the Member for South Dorset for securing this debate, which has allowed me to look into a small story that tells us about the opportunities that some people have. The hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) mentioned mental health. I was involved in the justice system in Scotland when I was a Member of the Scottish Parliament. An estimated 80% of the prison population in Scotland have mental health issues, which shows how significant the problem is in our prisons across the country. When four out of five prisoners in a country the size of Scotland are affected by mental health problems, anything we can do to improve their general health, wellbeing and mental health has to be worked on and recognised.

I looked up the World Health Organisation, which the hon. Member for Strangford mentioned. It set up a European network for promoting health in prisons:

“The aim of the network is to promote health, in its broadest sense, within the prison community. It is built on a recognition that while imprisonment results in a loss of personal freedom, the negative effects of custody on health should be reduced to a minimum. It also endorses the principle that time spent in custody can be used positively to aid the prevention of disease and, as far as possible, to promote health.”

We have heard in this debate that the Airborne scheme, as my hon. Friend the Member for South Dorset has explained, does exactly that. I support any measures that can advance such commendable aims.