Secure 16 to 19 Academies Bill

Desmond Swayne Excerpts

Committee stage
Wednesday 2nd July 2025 Public Bill Committees

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice (Sir Nicholas Dakin)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Mundell.

I thank the hon. Members who have contributed so far. On the issues just raised by the hon. Member for Spelthorne, they are for the Bill as it makes progress. Assuming that it does progress, however, I am happy to write to him with an answer to those points, as they are pertinent.

I shall not detain the Committee for long, but I add my wholehearted support to my hon. Friend the Member for Cramlington and Killingworth for promoting the Bill. I thank the Opposition and Liberal Democrats spokesmen for the pertinent remarks that they have made, which are helpful.

A sad reality is that a small number of children commit offences so serious that there is no option other than to deprive them of their liberty to protect the public. In line with our safer streets mission, the Government’s responsibility is to ensure that children who find themselves in the youth justice system receive the support that they need to turn their lives around.

Secure 16-to-19 academies, otherwise known as secure schools, offer an opportunity to transform the experience of children who are detained after having been sentenced or remanded to custody by the courts. Secure schools allow children to gain skills and qualifications that will help them to turn their backs on crime for good and, crucially, to protect the public from their reoffending in the future.

[Sir Desmond Swayne (New Forest West) (Con)]

We have had Borstals and approved schools, neither of which were particularly successful at reforming those who were in custody in them. Is the Minister confident that this new architecture, this new arrangement, will be more successful?

[Sir Nicholas Dakin]

The proof of the pudding is always in the eating, and we are at the start of a new venture. The former chief inspector of prisons, Charlie Taylor, was enthusiastic about this line of development. The previous Government, to their credit, over a period of time developed the first 16-to-19 academy, which is now established in legislation. The first ever secure school, Oasis Restore, opened in Kent last autumn. I was pleased to visit the secure school in September last year to see it for myself. The school is not yet where we or Oasis aspire for it to be, but I am encouraged by the commitment and passion of those involved. We need to ensure that it works as described in the appropriate challenge of hon. Members.

Oral Answers to Questions

Desmond Swayne Excerpts

Tuesday 3rd June 2025 Commons Chamber

[Sarah Sackman]

My hon. Friend is right to highlight an absolutely appalling case, and the thoughts of everyone in this House are with the children who were victims of that abuse. The independent judiciary has ruled on this. This Government believe in transparency in our family courts, and that is why we are working to expand the use of transparency orders, but we have to respect the independence of our judiciary, which has ruled in this particular case, not least for the reason of protecting the children in that case.

[Sir Desmond Swayne (New Forest West) (Con)]

T5. Lord Hermer says that we are not even trying to reform the convention. Why not?

[Shabana Mahmood]

I do not know what the right hon. Member is referring to, because the Government have already announced that we are considering the way in which our human rights laws are applied in immigration cases. I am the policy owner for the European convention on human rights, and I am considering its application within our domestic laws as well. I do not know what other reassurance he needs.

Independent Sentencing Review

Desmond Swayne Excerpts

Thursday 22nd May 2025 Commons Chamber

[Shabana Mahmood]

My hon. Friend is right. This time last year, the Conservatives had a chance to put the country first. Instead, they called an election and tried to put themselves first. They did a runner on the job, and it falls to us to clean up their mess. This Government will clean up their mess, and we will get our prison system on to a sustainable footing so that there is always a prison place. There will be more prison places under this Government, and we will make sure that there is always a prison place for the most dangerous offenders. That is why we are taking all the other measures that we need to take to ensure that we never run out of prison places again.

[Sir Desmond Swayne (New Forest West) (Con)]

Respect for justice is diminished by the fiction of the judge announcing a sentence and those in the know then calculating on the back of a fag packet the fraction that it actually represents. Has this statement not reinforced that system with bells on?

[Shabana Mahmood]

I am sorry to have to break it to the right hon. Gentleman, but he will be horrified to discover that he agrees with David Gauke on this one. The independent reviewer has pointed out that transparency will be paramount to maintaining confidence in the justice system, and we will make sure that we take the transparency measures forward.

Recalled Offenders: Sentencing Limits

Desmond Swayne Excerpts

Thursday 15th May 2025 Commons Chamber

[Sir Nicholas Dakin]

My hon. Friend points out the actions that we must take to address the challenges that we face in the system, and to make the system work better for victims and protect the public.

[Sir Desmond Swayne (New Forest West) (Con)]

Many domestic abusers will, given their nature, welcome the opportunity to give another twist of the knife at the cost of a mere 28 days. Has the Minister just presented them with a practical opportunity?

[Sir Nicholas Dakin]

I have carefully gone through the exclusions from this measure, and emphasised the importance of good professional bodies continuing to apply proper risk assessments. When risk assessments say that a standard recall is more appropriate than a fixed-term recall, that will happen.

Sentencing Council Guidelines

Desmond Swayne Excerpts

Tuesday 1st April 2025 Commons Chamber

[Shabana Mahmood]

My hon. Friend is right. I wish to see the widest possible use of pre-sentencing reports. It is my job to ensure that the Probation Service is in a position to provide pre-sentencing reports whenever they are required by the court, and that courts have confidence in the reports that they are getting. I will ensure that that is the case.

[Sir Desmond Swayne (New Forest West) (Con)]

Has the Lady Chief Justice been rebuked for the impertinence of her letter to the Prime Minister following Prime Minister’s questions on 12 February, when he perfectly properly questioned another absurd judicial decision?

[Shabana Mahmood]

No. I have very positive conversations with the Lady Chief Justice. She has an important constitutional function and obligations, as do I. Our conversations are collaborative and constructive. On that matter, the Government made their view clear that the exchange at Prime Minister’s questions turned on a question of policy, which is the proper realm of politicians and ultimately Parliament.

Sentencing Council Guidelines

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Monday 17th March 2025 Commons Chamber

[Sir Nicholas Dakin]

I am afraid that I am becoming a bit repetitive. There is a desire from Opposition Members to rush ahead, and I have great respect for that—[Interruption.] Well, you had 14 years, and what did you do in them? [Interruption.] Sorry, Mr Speaker, not you. Opposition Members are trying to rush ahead; we will take things steadily, at the right pace, with proper respect.

[Sir Desmond Swayne (New Forest West) (Con)]

On a point of great importance to the Lord Chancellor, she is reduced to asking the Sentencing Council to change its mind. The former Minister for common sense is right. There is a lesson here for all parliamentarians about the way we delegate powers to quangos that then come up with solutions that we clearly find repulsive.

Oral Answers to Questions

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Tuesday 28th January 2025 Commons Chamber

[Shabana Mahmood]

My hon. Friend raises an important point. The Government would not say anything that would risk collapsing this trial. The media followed the law, and so did everyone in this House, but the same was not true online. As the Prime Minister has said, this challenge clearly must be addressed. The Law Commission is reviewing contempt laws. We will look closely at that work and consider these issues in the round.

[Sir Desmond Swayne (New Forest West) (Con)]

But the information released shortly before the trial did not collapse the case. Had it been released in August, it might have had a dampening effect on those unhelpful voices on social media, might it not?

Sentencing Review and Prison Capacity

Desmond Swayne Excerpts

Tuesday 22nd October 2024 Commons Chamber

[Shabana Mahmood]

I will not pre-empt any future decisions on any particular prison, but I am not ideological about whether a prison is run by the state or privately. There are good prisons of both types in the sector. There are some failing state-run prisons and some failing privately run prisons. The most important thing is that we get on top of the capacity crisis across the whole prison estate. We have to reduce overcrowding so that we can focus on the good-quality rehabilitation activity that I know governors in every type of prison want to ensure, so that prisoners can be helped to turn their life around.

[Sir Desmond Swayne (New Forest West) (Con)]

I congratulate the Lord Chancellor on recognising that for some prisoners, the shortcomings of short sentences are properly remedied by providing for longer ones. On the review and David Gauke, it is difficult not to like him and even admire him, but I am not alone in regarding him as a notorious wet, am I?

Oral Answers to Questions

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Tuesday 10th September 2024 Commons Chamber

[Mr Paul Kohler (Wimbledon) (LD)]

12. What recent assessment she has made of the adequacy of the time taken for cases to progress through the criminal justice system.

[Sir Desmond Swayne (New Forest West) (Con)]

13. What steps she is taking to help reduce the time taken for criminal cases to be heard at court.

[The Minister of State, Ministry of Justice (Heidi Alexander)]

We are committed to ensuring the swift delivery of justice for victims at all stages of the criminal justice system, and we are working closely with various partners involved to achieve that aim. In relation to the courts, we plan to sit more than 105,000 working days in the Crown court this financial year, and we continue to hear criminal cases at Nightingale courts. We are also considering other measures to speed up justice for victims, and we will make further announcements in due course.

--- Later in debate ---

[Heidi Alexander]

As the Prime Minister made clear, those affected by the Grenfell tragedy have already waited too long for justice. I can assure the hon. Gentleman that anything in my or my Department’s power that needs to be done will be done. The Government fully support the Metropolitan police and the Crown Prosecution Service as they complete their investigations and bring prosecutions to trial, while respecting their operational independence. I am sure the use of all forms of technology will be considered in that process.

[Sir Desmond Swayne]

Perhaps too many barristers have become politicians, but however caused, how will the Minister address the shortage at the criminal Bar?

[Heidi Alexander]

I hesitate to answer the right hon. Gentleman’s question, given that my boss is a former barrister—I say that we cannot have too many.

Only last week I discussed the adequacy of numbers of legal professionals in the Crown court with the chair of the Criminal Bar Association, Mary Prior, and I will be working with the profession to ensure not only that we are recruiting sufficient barristers to work in the courts, but that we are retaining barristers at the criminal Bar.