Stamp Duty Land Tax (Reduction) Bill

Desmond Swayne Excerpts

Committee stage
Tuesday 10th January 2023 Commons Chamber

[Victoria Atkins]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Roger.

At the autumn statement, my right hon. Friend the Chancellor set out set out how the Government are dealing with the global economic challenges that we face. The consequences of Putin’s illegal invasion of Ukraine and the covid-19 pandemic mean that we must be fiscally responsible while supporting the economy and encouraging our businesses to grow and our constituents to thrive. We need a balanced approach to support our objectives, which includes helping people get on to and move up the housing ladder—and indeed to downsize.

[Sir Desmond Swayne (New Forest West) (Con)]

Will my hon. Friend allow me?

[Victoria Atkins]

It is very soon, but because it is my right hon. Friend, I will certainly give way.

[Sir Desmond Swayne]

My hon. Friend is most generous and kind. Those of us who voted with enthusiasm for the Bill’s Second Reading on the grounds that there was to be a permanent change for the benefit of those people wanting to get on to the housing ladder are somewhat discomfited by the fact that Government amendment 1 will make it merely a temporary measure to assist those who want to do so. We want them to be permanently assisted. Can she reassure me?

[Victoria Atkins]

I very much understand why my right hon. Friend raises that point. I know he took a great interest in the autumn statement and listened carefully to the submissions and oration of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, my right hon. Friend the Member for South West Surrey (Jeremy Hunt). We had to take some difficult decisions in the course of the autumn statement to ensure that our approach to the economy is fiscally responsible. This is one way in which we hope to stimulate the housing market in the next two years in the difficult economic circumstances we find, but thereafter we are confident that the economy will improve and we will be able to return to the status quo as it was before 23 September. However, the broader picture about reducing the taxation burden on our constituents still stands. Indeed, I hope my right hon. Friend listened with great interest to the Prime Minister’s speech last week in which he made it clear that that is our ultimate goal.

Non-domestic Energy Support

Desmond Swayne Excerpts

Monday 9th January 2023 Commons Chamber

[James Cartlidge]

I am grateful to the hon. and learned Lady for mentioning the charity in her constituency. As I said, I appreciate that the energy increase has been a challenge for every type of SME, charity and institution up and down the country. I am sorry to hear about the challenges for Gorgie city farm, which I have not had the pleasure of visiting but it sounds fascinating. Charities have shown huge resilience over the past two years and will continue to receive support with their energy bills from the latest iteration of the discount scheme. I emphasise that there is wider support to help them with their costs, including a reduction in VAT from 20% to 5% and an exclusion from the main rates of the climate change levy on some of the energy they use. The key point is that we are announcing a scheme that is still universal in nature and still includes charities. It is not as generous as before, but when we engaged with stakeholders about the £18 billion six-month scheme, what was interesting was the number of them who remarked that they had not expected that scheme to continue at that level of generosity. They could see the issue about sustainability for the taxpayer, which we all have to understand and address. It is in all our interests, and in the interests of every single business and charity, that this country has sustainable public finances.

[Sir Desmond Swayne (New Forest West) (Con)]

Has any analysis been made available to Ministers regarding the movements in wholesale prices and the tariffs actually being offered to customers going forward?

[James Cartlidge]

It is very timely that my right hon. Friend raises that point. He will have heard me mention to the former Lord Chancellor, my right hon. and learned Friend the Member for South Swindon (Sir Robert Buckland), that the Chancellor has today written to Ofgem to encourage it to update him as soon as possible and as a matter of urgency about the review of the non-domestic market, because we are hearing about many issues with it. A key point I will be feeding back is that colleagues on all sides of the House have experienced cases in their constituencies relating to deposits being asked for, deals being rejected and what will happen at the end of fixed rates. There is clearly work to be done and that is why the Chancellor has written as he has. I will ensure the letter is published on gov.uk along with the other documents.

Economy Update

Desmond Swayne Excerpts

Thursday 26th May 2022 Commons Chamber

[Rishi Sunak]

My hon. Friend the Economic Secretary to the Treasury is in regular dialogue with the Financial Conduct Authority to ensure that the industry is properly regulated. Last year, we also introduced the breathing space programme, for which he deserves enormous praise and which we continue to believe will help people. It provides a space where all statutory debt repayments are paused to allow families time to work through them, with the benefits that that brings.

[Sir Desmond Swayne (New Forest West) (Con)]

What difference in monetary policy has protected Japan and Switzerland from the levels of inflation that we are encountering here, in the United States and in the rest of Europe?

[Rishi Sunak]

Japan, as my right hon. Friend will appreciate, is a very particular case, but even Japan is experiencing its highest relative inflation rate in many years. For Switzerland, there are a couple of reasons. The first is a particularly strong Swiss franc, which happens at times like this. The second is a different mix of energy, which I believe from memory is provided overwhelmingly by hydro and nuclear. That is a completely different energy mix, which means that Switzerland suffers less from the shock we are experiencing.

Prime Minister’s Chief of Staff Appointment

Desmond Swayne Excerpts

Monday 7th February 2022 Commons Chamber

[Michael Ellis]

I had no idea that the hon. Gentleman presented himself as an expert in Erskine May, but I have to say, with respect, that I do not think many others would. The reality is that my right hon. Friend the Member for North East Cambridgeshire (Steve Barclay) is not a civil servant; he remains a servant of this House—a servant of the people of this country—democratically elected and highly accountable.

[Sir Desmond Swayne (New Forest West) (Con)]

On the whole, Governments do not do things well, so will my right hon. and learned Friend persuade the new chief of staff to concentrate the Government’s efforts on doing fewer things a bit better?

[Michael Ellis]

As the House will recognise, the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster has a long history of ministerial service in this House, which he has performed par excellence. I have no doubt, and nor do my colleagues, that he will continue to perform his functions with excellence, whether they be in 10 Downing Street or elsewhere.

Downing Street Garden Event

Desmond Swayne Excerpts

Tuesday 11th January 2022 Commons Chamber

[Michael Ellis]

The right hon. Lady’s first point was that the Prime Minister is not here in person. She knows as well as everyone else in this House that it is not routine for the Prime Minister to answer urgent questions before the House, but that his Ministers are appointed to do so. However, he also attends this House more often than anyone else to answer questions and will be doing so tomorrow in the normal way at Prime Minister’s Question Time.

The right hon. Lady mentioned the appalling loss suffered by one of her constituents. My heart goes out to that constituent and, indeed, to all others from whom we have heard in this House—from all parts of this House—who have suffered tragic loss as a consequence of this appalling pandemic.

There is a need for investigation. The right hon. Lady said that there was not. There is a need, and that need is clear. The investigation is in progress. It is being conducted by someone in whom we have great confidence and who is, if I may put it this way, a paragon of independence and integrity in the civil service, of long standing. She is conducting that investigation.

The Prime Minister was himself affected by the consequence of covid-19 infection. He takes this matter very seriously, as does everyone in government. I will say this: the right hon. Lady asked if I have confidence in the Prime Minister’s integrity and honour, and I do.

[Sir Desmond Swayne (New Forest West) (Con)]

All this should be a powerful corrective to the urge to order the rest of our lives, should it not?

[Michael Ellis]

We each of us, in this House and no doubt everywhere else, live our lives in the best way that we can. Those of us in positions of responsibility acknowledge that responsibility. That is why there is an investigation in progress, which will get to the bottom of all these matters. That is in progress.

Downing Street Christmas Parties Investigation

Desmond Swayne Excerpts

Thursday 9th December 2021 Commons Chamber

[Michael Ellis]

May I first say that my heart goes out to the hon. Lady’s constituent and the many thousands of other people who have lost loved ones as a result of this pandemic?

As I said in my opening remarks, the investigation will be conducted by the Cabinet Secretary. I know that the hon. Lady and those on the Benches behind her as well as everyone in this House has confidence in the independence and integrity of our civil service; the Cabinet Secretary heads the civil service and he is conducting this investigation. How long it lasts will be a matter for him, and the matter will, if it discloses criminality, be reported to the Metropolitan police for further investigation. In previous ministerial roles as a Law Officer—Solicitor General and Attorney General—I superintended the Government Legal Department, another organisation which of course has integrity and the confidence of all; it will be supporting the investigation. All those who are questioned by the investigation—civil servants, special advisers, Ministers—will be expected to co-operate with it. I hope that answers the hon. Lady’s questions.

[Sir Desmond Swayne (New Forest West) (Con)]

Would it be helpful if there were a greater understanding of the fact that No. 10 is not a house but a front door, behind which there is a suite of modern offices and meeting rooms across three floors? It is perfectly possible to be in the rafters above No. 11 completely isolated from what else is happening in the building.

[Michael Ellis]

It is certainly true, as a matter of geography, that No. 10 Downing Street is a very large property with a multitude of offices and with many, many people working inside it. In that sense, of course—geographically—my right hon. Friend is absolutely correct.

Budget Resolutions

Desmond Swayne Excerpts

Wednesday 27th October 2021 Commons Chamber

[Mr Nicholas Brown (Newcastle upon Tyne East) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure and indeed an honour to follow the right hon. Member for Maidenhead (Mrs May) in this debate. I am not sure that either of us would have thought that we would find ourselves doing this, but we do, and I have to say that I agreed with a great deal of what she had to say. I certainly agreed with far more than is probably good for me nowadays, but I did and I will say so in my speech.

I have been a Member of this place since 1983 and have heard a great deal of just about every Budget speech. The style has changed rather a lot. There was a time when we used to get a long lecture about monetarism and the money supply—the whole theory would be explained to us, with special emphasis on M4. I may have got this wrong, but the present Chancellor’s heart seems to still be with that school of thought, but to his credit he has realised the extraordinary nature of the circumstances that currently confront us and taken what for him, and I guess the Prime Minister as well, has been a philosophically broader view.

The current circumstances are quite mind-boggling. We have not done this voluntarily, and I do not blame the Government for it, but we have borrowing at a peacetime record now. It stands at some £320 billion, which is the equivalent of 14.9% of GDP. Government debt has increased now to about 96% of GDP. Spending, I acknowledge, is falling, but it is still at what for us is a high level and what for the Conservative party must be a very high and worrying level, surpassing anything that we have seen in peacetime.

As well as the national finances being under great strain, the finances of my constituents are too. I welcome some of the measures in the Chancellor’s speech, including the capital funding for the national health service to try to clear the backlog. Whether it is enough, it is certainly more than we were going to get, so I welcome it on those terms. I am very sceptical as to whether the funding for the announced changes will find its way later into the social care budgets. The cost of that—we all see this is necessary, and it is necessary now and not in a few years’ time—will end up with local government. As we work through the details of the Budget—the ones that were not leaked to the newspapers in advance—I think that we will find that local government will be forced, particularly in metropolitan areas, to pick up the burden.

I join the right hon. Lady in welcoming the long overdue—from my point of view—addressing of the taper on the universal credit interface with increased work earnings. Universal credit affects some 9,000 households in east Newcastle, and 35% are in employment so will almost certainly come up against the clawback of 63% as it was and 55% as it is now. It is not as big a deal as it sounds, but it is going in the right direction. It is welcome. The problem of the interface between benefits to people who are in work is not a new one, and my view is that more thought needs to be given to this to find a more equitable solution. The marginal tax rate is still quite high. It was 75% on the old clawback when national insurance and other taxes are added in, and it will be something of that order even with the Government’s announcement, but that does not stop me welcoming it. I do.

Discretionary incomes, particularly those of the poor, are under significant pressure and I regret the fact that the present Government have decided to break their manifesto promise and take more from those who do not really have it, with their 1.25% increase in national insurance. I can see why the Government—a Conservative Government—see the need to raise tax, but there were other ways of doing it and I would like a lot more reassurance that these were explored properly before we arrived at the solution that the Government have arrived at.

Mention has been made of the inflationary pressures that are now loose in the economy. I take this very seriously—

[Sir Desmond Swayne (New Forest West) (Con)]

May I take the right hon. Gentleman back to those halcyon days when he enjoyed lectures on monetarism and remind him that inflation is always and everywhere a monetary phenomenon? There is no such thing as cost-push inflation.

[Mr Brown]

If the right hon. Gentleman would let me make a little more progress, I was going to quote Mrs Thatcher with approval; I rather thought that would catch his interest. What he says is essentially correct, and when these issues were more contentious, it was recognised very vigorously indeed by the then Conservative Prime Minister, Mrs Thatcher, who once said that

“inflation is the biggest destroyer of all—of industry, of jobs, of savings, and of society”,

briefly acknowledging, untypically for her, that there was such a thing as society—perhaps her better known quote.

Although I seem to have lost my copy of the 1987 Conservative manifesto, I have a memory that it contained the memorable phrase, “Inflation is an evil and must be exterminated”. I commend that point of view to the present Government if inflationary forces are unleashed again, given all the other problems we have to face up to at the moment. The victims are my constituents: the poorest and those who are least able to find the extra money—or, indeed, to find the goods to buy, given the way in which the distribution sector is currently challenged. These higher priced products could only be purchased if people found a supermarket that was still selling them and that had not been disrupted by a lack of delivery and HGV drivers. Retailers’ stock levels are at their lowest—or reportedly at their lowest; I cannot claim personally to have done a stock check—since I entered the House in 1983.

We know that inflation will hit our constituents hard. The situation with gas prices needs a response from the state, at least temporarily. My preference would have been Labour’s proposal to remove VAT from fuel bills, at least temporarily—for, say, six months. The Government could do more, and I urge them to, to help our more vulnerable constituents through this winter. That brings me, inevitably, to covid.

The R rate is reportedly now more than 1 and is said to be as high as 1.2. I understand that the Government’s underlying assumption is that the booster vaccine will provide a countervailing policy and that that will be enough to bring the rate back down. But if it is not, the Government need seriously to focus on whatever plan B actually is, because putting the country through a lockdown or some other set of restrictive policies again in the current circumstances will have a devastating effect on our hopes for a recovery.

I will finish soon, because I know that other Members want to get in. It is a fact that, in 2014, 27% of children in my constituency lived in poverty, and the latest child poverty figure that I have for my constituency is 38%. The adjustments that have been made and announced—pre-announced, if you will—in this year’s Budget do not serve to relieve that burden on the bulk of my constituents. All 12 local authorities in the north-east of England are in the top 20 of those that have seen the highest increases in child poverty rates.

The Government used to say that the way through this situation was to increase economic activity through the northern powerhouse. The Chancellor did not mention the northern powerhouse in his address at all, unless the Government have renamed it Teesside. However, the thrust of the argument is still clear and I would like it to succeed; I would like properly paid, well-resourced jobs to be brought to the region, and for them to endure. It is not a quarrel between the parties that we want to drive up the living standards of our constituents in our region. We can make much more common cause here in Parliament on the details of the issue. I tried to tackle that when I was the Regional Minister, with some success—I am not going to say with anything else!

One of the galling announcements in the Chancellor’s statement was the reference to family hubs. What happened to Sure Start? What was wrong with that? If the incoming Conservative Government had thought it was a poor initiative that could have been configured differently, why did they not just pick it up and configure it differently, and shape it like they say they now want to shape the family hubs? The underpinning reasons for the policy are wholly justified. It did deliver results. The Government are right to have found their way to it now, but they should have got there 10 or 11 years ago.

Finally, the greatest question facing our country and the world at large is climate change, and the prospects seem absolutely terrifying. I wish the Government well with COP26 and taking the issues forward internationally. Are we going to get there? I share the concerns and worries of, frankly, every thinking Member of this House. It is essential to the community that I represent that the Government do get there and that we are able to carry international partners with us. The Government’s proposals include industrial jobs—jobs that we could do in the north-east of England and projects that our communities could bid for. We want to play our full part in taking a green industrial strategy forward.

Budget: Pre-announcement of Provisions

Desmond Swayne Excerpts

Tuesday 26th October 2021 Commons Chamber

[Mr Clarke]

I thank the hon. Lady for her points. Clearly, as a former Treasury Minister herself, she would never have engaged in any activity of this kind. The point is that there is absolutely no question of our commitment to observing all the proprieties, reflecting the Macpherson review, which was an internal review conducted by Sir Nicholas, the then permanent secretary, to work out what was sensible in advance of the Budget. We have not commented on any of the substantive tax measures and there will be a raft of full information in both the Budget documents and the documents provided by the OBR, which obviously provides a level of detail that the last Labour Government never provided in terms of their equivalent events.

[Sir Desmond Swayne (New Forest West) (Con)]

There are two sides to this coin. The first is the Government broadcasting without first letting us know. The other is the information that they are trying to keep from us. Why was the leaked information on the substantial costs of winter plan B marked “Not for publication”? What are the Government trying to hide? Why are they frightened of our scrutiny?

[Mr Clarke]

I thank my right hon. Friend for his question. I will not comment on leaks—[Laughter.] The absolute bottom line is that we are, of course, committed to plan A, and there is no question but that he will find that plan A remains the resolute conviction of both this Government and, I believe, this House in terms of how we can most sensibly take the country through the winter ahead. We are not moving to plan B. We are committed to plan A. He should be reassured that we want to keep our economy and society open as we move through the challenges of the weeks and months ahead.

Health and Social Care Levy

Desmond Swayne Excerpts

1st reading
Wednesday 8th September 2021 Commons Chamber

[The Financial Secretary to the Treasury (Jesse Norman)]

I beg to move,

That provision may be made for, and in connection with, the following—

(a) the imposition of a tax on earnings and profits in respect of which national insurance contributions are payable, or would be payable if no restriction by reference to pensionable age were applicable, the proceeds of which are to be paid (together with any associated penalties or interest) to the Secretary of State towards the cost of health and social care but where expenses incurred in collecting the tax are to be deducted and paid instead into the Consolidated Fund, and

(b) increasing the rates of national insurance contributions for a temporary period ending when the tax becomes chargeable and applying the increases towards the cost of the National Health Service.

Supporting health and social care in the aftermath of a pandemic and amid the worst health crisis for 100 years, laying the long-term basis for social care for generations to come—there are few if any greater peacetime challenges for any Government, and that is why it is an honour to be opening this debate today.

As the House will know, yesterday the Prime Minister announced a plan to tackle the NHS backlog, put the adult social care system on a sustainable long-term footing and end the situation in which those who need help in their old age risk losing everything to pay for it. The Government’s plan will make a difference to the lives of millions of people across this country, and it will be funded with a record £36 billion investment into the NHS and social care.

[Sir Desmond Swayne (New Forest West) (Con)]

What estimate has the Minister made of the impact of these measures on the ease or indeed the difficulty of securing continuing NHS care?

[Jesse Norman]

That is an extraordinarily wide-ranging question, and there are many ways in which impacts could be assessed. My right hon. Friend will be aware that the Government will be bringing forward a social care Bill, and there will be a Budget at which this measure, fiscal measures in general and the wider consideration of the fiscal position will be considered. In the documents published in relation to today’s debate, there is of course a sustainability analysis of the impact of the measure on different parts of the country, by background and socioeconomic income, and there is also a substantial plan published by the Government in relation to the Health and Care Bill.

Economic Update

Desmond Swayne Excerpts

Wednesday 8th July 2020 Commons Chamber

[Sir Desmond Swayne (New Forest West) (Con)]

After that package and that performance, the only reasonable thing I can say to my right hon. Friend is, “Remember, O Caesar, you are mortal.” However, it would be a great shame if the effectiveness of his measures were to be undermined in the New Forest, with the loss of at least £16 million to local traders, by the company to whom the Forestry Commission handed a monopoly refusing to open its campsites. Will he summon Forestry England, threaten it with the rough end of a pineapple and instruct it to use its position on the board and its substantial shareholding to get those campsites open?

[Rishi Sunak]

Thank you—I think—to my right hon. Friend. I share his passion for getting our campsites open. I hope that an extra incentive today will be the cut in VAT, from 20% to 5%, which extends to campsites, as well as to caravan sites, bed and breakfasts, and hotels. I am not sure that I have the powers to summon anyone, but I will be delighted to bring to bear whatever influence I can on the matter. I look forward to discussing it with him further.