Libya and the Middle East

David Winnick Excerpts

Monday 7th March 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hague]

Yes, I take the point that my hon. Friend makes and I am grateful for his support for the position that we have taken on contingency planning. On the question of taking credit for what goes right as well as blame for what goes wrong, having in the past led the Conservative party for four years, I have never heard of that notion before.

[Mr David Winnick (Walsall North) (Lab)]

Up to about a fortnight ago, we were busy selling arms to Gaddafi’s bloodstained regime. Does the Foreign Secretary understand that there is a great divide between giving humanitarian aid to the victims of Gaddafi’s regime, and military intervention? On the latter, there seems to be in the House and certainly in the country at large—and I believe it is the right attitude to take—no appetite for military intervention in Libya.

[Mr Hague]

We will not take too many lectures from the Opposition on the issue of selling things to the Gaddafi regime or wider issues of policy towards Libya, but of course there is a difference between humanitarian assistance and direct military intervention. As I explained earlier, the options that we are asking NATO to look at are essentially options to protect the civilian population or to deliver the necessary humanitarian assistance. That is different from direct military intervention.

Middle East

David Winnick Excerpts

Monday 14th February 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hague]

Of course, it would be nice to have the budget to do everything that everybody demanded. As the hon. Lady knows, we do not have the budget to do that. On the World Service and the Arab world, I stress that satellite television is watched almost ubiquitously through the Arab world and was of course much resented by the Egyptian authorities during recent events. That includes the BBC. BBC Arabic is continuing on medium wave, and the shortwave service is being continued for the most sensitive areas in Sudan and the Arabian peninsula, so the BBC will continue to have a very strong representation in the Arab world.

[Mr David Winnick (Walsall North) (Lab)]

Is it not important that the Egyptians are not cheated of their remarkable victory in the past few days, and that there will be continued pressure for democratic elections to be held and the decisions accepted? May I tell the Foreign Secretary that I have heard successive Foreign Secretaries over many, many years telling us in the Commons about the need for a Palestinian-Israeli settlement, but as long as the settlements on occupied land remain with Israel illegally and continue to be built, is it not clear that there can be no genuine settlement? It is up to the United States above all to put sufficient pressure on Israel to see sense. Possibly the evacuation of the settlements would lead to a settlement.

[Mr Hague]

The settlements are illegal under international law. We are clear about that, and the previous Government were clear about that. There is no question about it. The issue of the settlements can be finally resolved only with a settlement on borders, which in our view, as I said, should be based on 1967 borders, with land swaps. That would have implications for some of those settlements. The United States has made valiant efforts to bring the parties back together on the basis of a continued Israeli moratorium on settlements, but sadly did not succeed in doing so. We all feel strongly about the issue. The hon. Gentleman is right to feel strongly about it. What we now need to find is a practical way to get both parties talking again, and that requires both of them to be ready to make the compromises necessary to do so.

Russia (Exclusion of Journalist)

David Winnick Excerpts

Tuesday 8th February 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lidington]

I agree completely with that last point. We will certainly continue to raise with the Russians the individual cases and general issues that the hon. Lady cited, as we did during the human rights dialogue that took place last month in London. We will also continue to give support to a number of both Russian and international non-governmental organisations that seek to monitor alleged human rights abuses and uphold basic freedoms, especially in the north Caucasus.

[Mr David Winnick (Walsall North) (Lab)]

In November 1992, I heard the then Russian President, Boris Yeltsin, tell the assembled Commons and Lords that there would be no return to the old ways in his country. Is it not unfortunate that, increasingly, Russia is returning to autocratic ways? It would be a great blow not only to the Russian people but to the international community if the worst aspects of tsarism and communism were to return to that country.

[Mr Lidington]

When I look at Russian history what strikes me is how much the Russian people have suffered over the past century. I would dearly love to see Russia playing its full part as a member of the community of nations, including by showing respect for human rights and freedoms. The Government have always welcomed the statements, particularly from President Medvedev, arguing that Russia is moving towards greater acceptance of the rule of law and he is seeking to demonstrate greater respect for liberties in his country. It is important that the Russian authorities realise that we cannot make a judgment on the basis of words alone and that we look at their actions in judging whether those welcome expressions of intent are translated into practical action.

European Union Bill

David Winnick Excerpts

Wednesday 26th January 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

Once again—I fear that I am being repetitive, but it is necessary for me to be so—let me say that I have made the factual and legal position clear. The hon. Gentleman has raised a point of order, and it seems to me that the matter that he has raised—a matter relating to what could or could not now ensue—is essentially a hypothetical matter upon which it is neither necessary nor possible for a ruling to be made this evening. I believe that the position is clear: the disqualification has happened. If there are Members who are dissatisfied with the procedure—a very senior Member and others have indicated some level of dissatisfaction—it is perfectly open to them further to pursue the matter through other quarters, on other occasions, but I do not think that there is profit in dwelling further on them this evening.

[Mr David Winnick (Walsall North) (Lab)]

Further to that point of order, Mr Speaker. Much has been said in the past 12 months and more about modernising the House of Commons. You made great reference to this yourself in your campaign speech. I hope that this will not seem too revolutionary, but would it not be appropriate for the Procedure Committee to look into these matters? Why should it be necessary, in the 21st century, to apply for an office of profit under the Crown? Why should not it be possible for an hon. Member to resign his seat? I suggest that there is a case for this matter to be looked at. People watching this might consider it rather farcical.

[Mr Speaker]

I note what the hon. Gentleman has said, and I hope that he will understand that I respect what he has said, but that it is not for me to speculate from the Chair on what the future position might be. It is absolutely open to the hon. Gentleman and to any other hon. Member to request that the Procedure Committee study this issue and make recommendations. I am not in any sense dying in the ditch as a matter of principle in favour of the status quo; nor am I arguing for a change to it. I am exercising my rather limited responsibility to report to the House what has happened and the facts of the situation. I hope that that is helpful.

[Mr Winnick]

rose—

[Mr Speaker]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman, who is indicating that he wishes further to pursue the matter; I respect that.

[Mr Winnick]

I shall write to the Procedure Committee.

Afghanistan

David Winnick Excerpts

Wednesday 27th October 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hague]

I drew attention in my statement to the fact that although some progress on corruption has been made, it is by no means enough. We want to see a lot more progress on tackling corruption. That is very important, and the recent revelations about the Kabul bank have provided the most dramatic illustration of the need for that. In the absence of such progress, international confidence is undermined. It is true that a number of countries provide funding in certain forms to the Afghan Government, and it is important that that is transparent and used for legitimate Government functions and that it is not the basis of interference in the internal affairs of Afghanistan. I reiterate, however, that some progress has been made: 27 of the Afghan Ministers have now declared all their assets, and new mining contracts are being undertaken in a transparent way, published on the web so that everyone can see them. My hon. Friend is right, however, to reinforce the fact that for there to be international confidence, an intensified effort to tackle corruption is required.

[Mr David Winnick (Walsall North) (Lab)]

Unsurprisingly, I would like an earlier date for the ending of the combat role for British troops. At least a date has now been set, but I would like it to be at least two years earlier than 2015. Is it not encouraging that the Government, and presumably my party’s Front-Bench team, now accept that NATO will not win an outright military victory and that, as Mr Gorbachev has just said—and he should know—a political settlement can only really be decided by the political forces inside Afghanistan?

[Mr Hague]

I disagree with the hon. Gentleman on a couple of points. To say that we will draw down from combat operations at an earlier date than when we can expect the Afghan national forces to be able to sustain and lead their own operations would be a mistake, and I would resist his call to set an earlier date. Indeed, to be fair to his party’s Front-Bench team, I do not think they have ever maintained that there is a purely military solution to the problems of Afghanistan, and neither have we. We have always stressed that a political process is important as well, and I have often heard the former Foreign Secretary, the right hon. Member for South Shields (David Miliband), and the former Defence Secretary, the right hon. Member for Coventry North East (Mr Ainsworth), who is sitting just in front of the hon. Gentleman, say that. The difference between what Mr Gorbachev has been talking about and what is happening now is that this is not the Soviet Union imposing its will on Afghanistan: this is 48 troop-contributing nations, with more than 70 nations assembled to give various support at the Kabul conference, operating under a United Nations mandate to liberate the people of Afghanistan from what happened before, and also with the important goal of maintaining our own national security. It is a different situation, therefore, and I disagree with the hon. Gentleman’s analysis of it.

Kabul Conference

David Winnick Excerpts

Wednesday 21st July 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hague]

As always, there is some force in my hon. Friend’s question and perspective—[Hon. Members: “He was there!”] I do not think he was there, but he always speaks with a good deal of wisdom and perspective on history. It is true that it took a long time for NATO to get its act together in Afghanistan. However, as he would have heard from what I described, it is now true that there is a clear military strategy, a very clear economic and development strategy, and the prospect of a political process, which as the right hon. Member for South Shields (David Miliband) pointed out, requires further encouragement and work. Those three things have now come together. It has taken many years for that to happen, but we start from where we start, and we must make a success of them.

[Mr David Winnick (Walsall North) (Lab)]

While appreciation of the bravery of British soldiers and a total loathing of everything the Taliban stand for is felt throughout the country, does the Foreign Secretary recognise that public support is increasingly being lost simply because there is an understanding, which I share, that this is an unwinnable war? The hon. Member for Louth and Horncastle (Sir Peter Tapsell) referred to 1842. Is it not the fact that virtually—or perhaps literally—every outside, foreign intervention in Afghanistan has always been unsuccessful?

Gaza Flotilla

David Winnick Excerpts

Wednesday 2nd June 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hague]

Yes, and my hon. Friend makes a very powerful point. What in effect happens is that Hamas is able to tax the importation of goods through the tunnels, providing funds for itself while further impoverishing the people of Gaza. That is a further reminder that the blockade is not an effective policy.

[Mr David Winnick (Walsall North) (Lab)]

Is it at all possible that the Israelis are aware of the worldwide revulsion at what has happened this week? The killings on the high seas had no justification whatsoever, and my hon. Friend the Member for Islington North (Jeremy Corbyn) spoke about other measures that Israel has taken. Is it not clear that Israel seems to show no concern at all for international opinion, and that it is out of control? Unless firm action is taken by the international community, will we not see further tragedies of this kind?

[Mr Hague]

I would not necessarily reach the conclusion that there is no awareness or concern about international opinion in Israel. In fact, there has been a good deal of criticism of the Israeli Government in the Israeli media over the past couple of days. Remember that Israel is a democracy. There is free expression of opinion. Sometimes that is bitterly critical of their own Ministers, and sometimes of their own armed forces. We saw that in the aftermath of the Lebanon war four years ago. I think it would be over-simplifying the situation to describe it as the hon. Gentleman did a few moments ago. There is a consciousness in Israel of international opinion. That is why we have to express ourselves in a way that is forceful but responsible, and ask them to do reasonable things that are in their own best interest. That is the position that we have taken.

Foreign Affairs and Defence

David Winnick Excerpts

Wednesday 26th May 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hague]

In response to the right hon. Gentleman—I accept his praise as being a good Rotherham man and thank him for that—I would say that when one is in opposition, shadowing foreign affairs, it is very important to increase one’s understanding and engagement with the world to the maximum possible extent. He says that there is an EU policy, which indeed there is, but I was preceded in Cuba by two EU Foreign Ministers who also visited the country. It is thus a policy that is not always honoured by all EU nations, which I think the right hon. Gentleman would acknowledge. It is very important to understand and talk to the leaderships of other countries with which we sometimes—and in the case of Cuba, nearly always—disagree. That is, after all, the point of diplomacy—talking to our enemies, adversaries and those who disagree with us, not just talking to our friends. In office, we will want to stand with a united EU policy, but I make no apology for exploring these issues with whoever it is possible to explore them with while in opposition.

Moving on to the point raised by my hon. Friend the Member for Bournemouth East (Mr Ellwood), the Prime Minister has made it clear that our top foreign policy priority is Afghanistan. The duty of care that we owe to our armed forces will be at the forefront of our minds. Whatever differences may be expressed in the House on other matters, I believe that we are united in gratitude to them. I also pay tribute to the many British civilians—including those in the Foreign Office—who are working to build a stable and secure Afghanistan.

Our objective in Afghanistan can be expressed quite simply. It is to help Afghans to reach the point at which they can look after their own security without presenting a danger to the rest of the world, with the Afghan security forces and the Afghan state capable of withstanding the range of security threats that are currently present in their country. As my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Defence pointed out, the sooner that they are able to do that, the sooner our troops—who make such sacrifices—will be able to come home.

It is vital for Parliament and the British public to be given regular and comprehensive updates on the situation, and on the progress being made against Government objectives. Let me answer the question asked by my hon. Friend the Member for Bournemouth East by saying that we will begin the quarterly reports to Parliament that we think should have been instituted in the past, delivering on the pledge that the Conservative party made in opposition. The Government will wish to report to the House on where matters stand on Afghanistan before the Kabul conference, and the quarterly report to Parliament will be instituted thereafter.

[Mr David Winnick (Walsall North) (Lab)]

We all pay tribute to British troops in Afghanistan, and rightly so. There is no division of opinion in the House about that. Is the Foreign Secretary aware, however, of growing anxiety about the fact that, after eight years, there is not the slightest indication that this is a winnable war? How much longer are British troops going to stay in Afghanistan, and when are we going to realise that, first and foremost, some sort of political solution—it will not be a military solution—is necessary in that country?

[Mr Hague]

I think that we also all agree that this is not a problem to which there is just a military solution. That point was often made by the previous Government—it was often made by the right hon. Member for South Shields—and we have always agreed with it.

One of the matters that we discussed with President Karzai in Afghanistan at the weekend was the process of reconciliation for which the peace jirga is about to be called. Sixteen hundred representatives from all over Afghanistan will be asked to come together to give the Afghan Government a mandate to proceed with a process of reconciliation, as well as a reintegration of former Taliban fighters at local level.

Of course there are huge concerns about the situation in Afghanistan, and we must respect those concerns. That is why the Government are spending an enormous amount of time on the issue, and that is why our first foreign policy priority is to show, and to know ourselves, that we have a proper grip on the situation. We must show that we are taking stock of the political situation in Afghanistan and our military role—taking stock not in the sense of deciding whether to support the international strategy there, but in the sense of deciding how best to support it in the months and years ahead.