Oral Answers to Questions

David Winnick Excerpts

Tuesday 5th March 2013 Commons Chamber

[Alistair Burt]

As always, recognising the context of Israel and the occupied Palestinian territories, particularly in relation to some of the hopes expressed by my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary earlier, means acknowledging how difficult the circumstances are, but also points to the consequences of there not being a settlement and of actions being pursued that continue to place Israel in a difficult position with world opinion. The longer the status quo is believed to be realistic, the more dangerous things become. We must all lend our efforts to the determination expressed by a number of states that this year must be definitive if we wish to see Palestinians and Israelis live in the sort of peace and harmony that we would all expect to bring an effective settlement to that region.

[Mr David Winnick (Walsall North) (Lab)]

Further to an earlier question, is not the crux of the matter that the Israeli Government, and previous Israeli Governments, do not believe that there will be any serious consequences as a result of what they do? Can one understand the sheer anger, resentment and frustration of the Palestinians who see no political progress at all? What would we do if we were in the same position as the Palestinians in the occupied territories?

[Alistair Burt]

The crux of the matter remains the extraordinary distrust and low levels of confidence between Israelis and Palestinians in relation to security matters and the long effects of the occupation, which has been so immensely damaging to both. As my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary said, we fear that unless there is effective action this year, the opportunity for a two-state solution is slipping away, the barrier between Israeli and Palestinian that we have all seen growing in our time in the House is getting more and more severe, and the opportunities, therefore, for people to live together in the future are getting more and more remote. The anger is understood. The fear of lack of security on the Israeli side is understood. That is why this year has to be definitive to make serious progress.

Palestinian Resolution (United Nations)

David Winnick Excerpts

Wednesday 28th November 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hague]

We have had many conversations with President Abbas on this subject, and we have discussed many times over the past two and a half years how to get back into negotiations. At one stage, for a brief period, that happened at the end of the 10-month settlement freeze. I have no doubt of President Abbas’s sincerity in wanting to bring about successful negotiations, but he did not respond to my request by saying that he would say publicly that there would be no preconditions. We will continue to encourage him to do so, but we should not draw any adverse conclusions about President Abbas on that either. We simply have to keep encouraging him in that direction.

[Mr David Winnick (Walsall North) (Lab)]

How Britain votes at the United Nations will surely be a test of how genuine our commitment is to the Palestinian cause. Arising from previous questions, does the Foreign Secretary accept that the choice is really for Israel, leaving aside the resolution at the UN, on whether it accepts a viable and independent Palestinian state—the Palestinian people are certainly not going to disappear any more than Israelis are—or a one-state solution with safeguards for both communities? That may not be the best choice for Israel, but the choice lies with Israel.

[Mr Hague]

Well, I will go so far with the hon. Gentleman: absolutely, of course that is an important test for Israel, which is why it needs to enter negotiations in the right spirit and with the right generosity. However, the Palestinians need to play their part. Any such negotiation requires both parties to conclude it successfully, and they must be prepared to make the necessary compromises. There are important tests for both sides, and our vote in the UN General Assembly should be determined by our determination to see them make a success of those negotiations, rather than to demonstrate that the Palestinian cause is more important than Israeli security, or the other way round. The test for us is supporting negotiation.

Middle East

David Winnick Excerpts

Tuesday 20th November 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hague]

While that statement is different from what my hon. Friend or I might say about the origins of this, I hope that he will bear in mind the answer that I gave to the hon. Member for Sheffield, Heeley (Meg Munn) about the very constructive role being played by Egypt. My experience, and the Prime Minister’s experience, of meeting President Morsi suggested to us that he wants a peaceful future for his country, that he has not turned against the peace treaty with Israel, and that he knows the importance of building up the economy and society of Egypt and not having conflict on his borders. I think that we should give him the space and time in which to accomplish those things.

[Mr David Winnick (Walsall North) (Lab)]

No one is trying to justify rocket firing into Israel, but does the Foreign Secretary recognise that Israeli air strikes have caused so many civilian casualties in Gaza that the killing of children—the burning to death of children—should be considered a war crime? As for the overall position, is not the truth of the matter that since the state of Israel was created in 1948, and even more since the 1967 war, the Israeli authorities have refused to recognise the legitimate entitlement of the Palestinian people to statehood, dignity and a proper life? That is the real issue that faces the international community now.

[Mr Hague]

There have been failings on all sides. I do not want to agree with everything that the hon. Gentleman has said. On other occasions, he has heard me criticise both the Israeli and the Palestinian leaderships from the Dispatch Box for their failure to make progress in the peace process. Many opportunities have been missed by both sides, but it is our job in the international community to try to bring them closer together and to ask for de-escalation rather than inflaming these situations. I will not, therefore, take up his invitation to go down a more dramatic rhetorical path.

Oral Answers to Questions

David Winnick Excerpts

Tuesday 30th October 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

I call Mr Kelvin Hopkins. [Interruption.] I thought that the hon. Gentleman wanted to ask a question. Well, it will have to wait for another time; fair enough. I call Mr David Winnick.

[Mr David Winnick (Walsall North) (Lab)]

I hope that the nation will appreciate that, Mr Speaker.

Is it not of interest that both United States presidential candidates have emphasised in the debates that took place between them their support for sanctions rather than any military strike against the Iranian regime? Does not that very largely express the mood in the United States, let alone here, that warmongering, which unfortunately some people are involved in—certainly not the Foreign Secretary—would be wrong and counter-productive?

[Mr Hague]

Both candidates in the presidential debates have, yes, been talking about the policy that I have been talking about in this House. I am sure that the two candidates for President of the United States are the experts on the mood in the United States more than any of us can possibly be here. Our approach, and that of the United States, is based on sanctions and negotiations. The United States is part of the E3 plus 3 nations that I have been talking about, and its sanctions are as strict as anyone’s, so it clearly believes in this approach.

Falkland Islands Referendum

David Winnick Excerpts

Wednesday 13th June 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lidington]

My hon. Friend makes a helpful suggestion. It is indeed important that observers are present from various different countries.

[Mr David Winnick (Walsall North) (Lab)]

As someone who has always argued for self-determination, like many of my Labour colleagues—not incidentally, a unanimous view in years gone by—may I ask whether the Minister accepts that if one believes in self-determination one should respect the view of those people in the Falklands, which is probably unanimous, who want to retain their links with Britain? That view, which no doubt will be reflected in the referendum, should be respected not just by us but by the international community at large.

[Mr Lidington]

I am glad to say that I agree completely with the hon. Gentleman’s remarks.

Afghanistan

David Winnick Excerpts

Thursday 9th February 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hague]

As I just said, it is too early to say very much about those negotiations, but the United Kingdom has, as my hon. Friend knows, for a long time supported the concept of reconciliation in Afghanistan, including the involvement of the Taliban, provided ultimately that the conditions of their breaking with al-Qaeda and accepting the constitution of Afghanistan can be met. The negotiations are at an early stage and do not necessarily indicate that the Taliban are in favour of reconciliation or have decided collectively to pursue it. It is the possible beginning of a process. We will have to see how that goes, but it is too early to say anything more than that about it at the moment.

[Mr David Winnick (Walsall North) (Lab)]

Does the Foreign Secretary recognise that, while we pay tribute—I certainly do—to our armed forces, as I have said previously, and to all the innocent victims of war in Afghanistan and Pakistan, the overwhelming majority of British people want to see an end to our combat role as quickly as possible and, we hope, before the end of 2014? All the indications are that the sentiment in Britain is shared in the United States, France and Germany.

[Mr Hague]

British people do want their own—our own—national security to be secured, and, yes, they very much support our troops whenever they are sent overseas into combat operations. This country has a very strong tradition of such support, but what we are doing now—setting a clear timetable, whereby by the end of 2014 we will have withdrawn from a combat role, or from having our troops there in anything like their current numbers—is something that meets the approval of the country. But we would not be doing a service to the country or, indeed, to the sacrifices of our forces there over recent years if we indulged in a precipitate withdrawal that left a far more difficult situation than the one that we hope to leave.

Syria

David Winnick Excerpts

Monday 6th February 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hague]

I will give consideration to all the points that are being raised about Russia—that is, I think, the best thing for me to say—and I will ensure that the force of the views in the House of Commons about Russia’s veto is well understood by the Russian embassy. It will be understood there, anyway. My first preference in how we now conduct our discussions with Russia is for me to do so directly with the Russian Foreign Minister, as well as via any contact we may have with the ambassador.

[Mr David Winnick (Walsall North) (Lab)]

Although the action of Russia and China is completely inexcusable, and no one in this House has tried to defend or justify it in any way, may I take the Foreign Secretary back to a point made earlier? Is he aware that the resolution on Libya, which was brought forward to stop slaughter, was so extended to bring about regime change that it has inevitably played right into the hands of Russia and China, who have done what they have done and vetoed the UN Security Council resolution? Both countries have, of course, a pretty poor record when it comes to their own human rights.

[Mr Hague]

In my view, the resolution on Libya—resolution 1973—was faithfully implemented. If I remember rightly, the hon. Gentleman voted, in the end, for our action in Libya.

[Mr Winnick]

indicated assent.

[Mr Hague]

Yes, he did. So, we are united in agreeing with that resolution. I do not think that it provides an excuse for Russia and China, for the reasons I gave earlier to my hon. Friend the Member for Gainsborough (Mr Leigh). Many other nations on the Security Council disapproved of what we did in Libya but voted for this resolution on Syria.

North Africa and the Near and Middle East

David Winnick Excerpts

Monday 28th November 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hague]

As my hon. Friend can imagine, during the state visit of the President of Turkey last week the Turkish Foreign Minister and I had extensive discussions about Syria. I do not believe that there is any imminent plan to create such a zone or take action within Syrian territory, which would obviously be a major step for any country. I think that the way forward is to intensify international pressure and support the Arab League. We co-sponsored last week’s UN General Assembly resolution condemning Syria’s human rights record, which was passed by a large majority. We will continue to approach the matter in this way.

I have also held talks with representatives of a number of Syria’s opposition groups, including the chairman of the largest body, the Syrian national council. My intention in doing so was to gain further insights into the situation on the ground and to impress upon them how important it is that they unite around a common platform, as called for by the Arab League. At a time of crisis for their country, they should put aside their differences and show the people of Syria that there is a clear alternative to the current regime.

The current lack of a united opposition is one of the many differences between the situation in Syria and that which we faced in Libya. The obstacles to democratic transition are different in each country, and our support for Arab League efforts is the best way forward, but President Assad should not for an instant consider that there is a way back for him and his regime, which has utterly discredited itself in the eyes of most of its people and the vast majority of the world. We will not relent in our efforts to support the right of the Syrian people to choose a different future.

We have long advised against all travel to Syria, and we advise British nationals in Syria to leave by commercial means while such means are still available. Those who choose to remain in Syria or to visit against our advice should be aware that it is highly unlikely that the British embassy would be able to provide a normal consular service in the event of a further breakdown in law and order. Evacuation options would be limited or non-existent, because of likely communication and travel restrictions.

We are also intensifying our efforts to respond to the challenge posed by Iran's nuclear programme. Following the unequivocal report by the International Atomic Energy Agency on 18 November, which pointed to the military dimensions of Iran's nuclear programme, my right hon. Friend the Chancellor instructed the UK financial sector on 21 November to sever all links with Iranian banks. The United States and Canada have taken similar steps. In the coming days, European Union partners will expand sanctions against the nuclear programme. We want Iran to return to the negotiating table, and in the meantime it should be left in no doubt about the resolve of the international community.

Members will be aware that yesterday the Iranian Parliament voted to downgrade relations with the United Kingdom. That is regrettable and unwarranted. It will do nothing to repair Iran’s international reputation, and to respond in that manner to pressure from the international community to engage is entirely counter-productive and yet another sign of Iran’s continued unwillingness to enter into dialogue. If the Iranian Government confirm their intention to act on that vote, we shall respond robustly in consultation with our international partners.

[Mr David Winnick (Walsall North) (Lab)]

The action that could be taken against the British ambassador is totally wrong and should indeed be condemned, as it will be, I am sure, by the whole House, but does the Foreign Secretary accept that the concern remains that whatever the justification—and the action being taken against the regime through sanctions and the rest is absolutely right—military action could be encouraged by Israel? I certainly hope that it will be made clear that, whatever the position, military action will not be approved in any way by the United States—and certainly not by this country.

[Mr Hague]

The position is the one that I have made clear many times before: we are not calling for military action. Our approach is a twin-track approach of negotiations and legitimate peaceful pressure on Iran. We have always said, as previous Governments in this country and other Governments throughout Europe have said, that no option is taken off the table for the future, but we are not advocating military action, and, as I say, our approach is the twin-track approach that I have set out.

Middle East and North Africa

David Winnick Excerpts

Wednesday 9th November 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hague]

Well, it will not last for ever. I do not think the Israeli Government regard me—or the position of the United Kingdom—as patient on this subject because we have spoken to them extremely frankly about what they need to do. Nevertheless, however frustrated we are, we all have to recognise that the resumption of negotiations is the only way to bring about the Palestinian state that we seek. We have to act in a way that is in accordance with that, which is why we have taken the decision we have.

[Mr David Winnick (Walsall North) (Lab)]

The Iranian regime is dreadful. Its tyranny is notorious and we all condemn it—at least I hope we all do. Does the Foreign Secretary accept, however, that any military attack on that regime would be counter-productive and have devastating consequences in the region? Will he give a commitment now that under no circumstances will this country be involved directly or indirectly in any such attack?

National Referendum on the European Union

David Winnick Excerpts

Monday 24th October 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con)]

It is customary when summing up to say, “This has been a good debate,” but this has been an amazing debate. We must thank the hon. Member for North East Derbyshire (Natascha Engel) and the Backbench Business Committee for putting it on, and we must also thank my hon. Friend the Member for Bury North (Mr Nuttall) for having opened it so sensibly so many hours ago. I have sat and listened to most of the debate, but as there were 52 speeches, I must apologise to the majority of contributors because I will not be able to respond to what they said.

Let me say at the beginning, however, that I must praise the Prime Minister. If it were not for him, we would not have the Backbench Business Committee. If it were not for him, we would not have petitions either, and it is the petitioning of this House of Commons that has brought this debate into being. I also thank the Prime Minister for his speech on 26 May 2009, when he encouraged returning power to the people. He said that in the past when debates were held in this House, the arguments went one way and the other, but then the bells rang and the Whips got into action and Members floated through the Commons like a herd of sheep. That is not going to happen tonight. I am going to take the advice of my Prime Minister when he encouraged every Member to be independent-minded, to put his constituents first, to put his country first, and to put narrow party interests last. I say, “Well done, Prime Minister,” and I will be voting in accordance with my conscience tonight.

It is unfortunate that some of the Whips have not quite got the Prime Minister’s message yet, but there is a rule of thumb in this House: if the three Front Benches agree on something, it is absolutely wrong. That is the situation tonight.

I say to my Whips that a mistake has been made tonight. The Backbench Business Committee was set up to test the will of Parliament, not in order for us to vote on party lines. This is exactly the sort of debate on which we should have a free vote. I am of the opinion that if there had been a free vote tonight, this motion would have been carried.

Lights have started flashing, instructing me to shut up early, although I thought I could go on for a little longer. I am afraid I must apologise to all 52 members who contributed for not having had time to comment on their speeches, but I will write to them.

Question put.

The House proceeded to a Division.

[Mr David Winnick (Walsall North) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. Is there any reason why the vote is being delayed?

[Mr Speaker]

The Tellers are in. I say to the hon. Gentleman, who has been here a long time—[Interruption.] I do not know why people are referring to three-figure numbers; the hon. Gentleman has not been here that long. His patience will be rewarded. He does not have long to wait and must calm himself. I like to see him in a state of permanent calm. That is my ambition.