Groceries Supply Code of Practice

David Jones Excerpts

Monday 22nd January 2024 Westminster Hall

[Mr David Jones (Clwyd West) (Con)]

It is an unalloyed delight to serve under your chairmanship, Mrs Murray. I congratulate the hon. Member for Neath (Christina Rees) on her excellent introduction to this important debate. The large number of signatures to the e-petition indicates the huge concern in the agriculture sector about the supply chain practices of some of the larger supermarkets and their impact on small-scale farmers and growers. The petition has so far attracted over 112,000 signatures, and special mention should be made of Guy Singh-Watson of Riverford Organic Farmers, who initiated it.

As the hon. Lady said, small suppliers are the backbone of the food supply industry in this country—many of my constituents fall into that category. Not only do they help to feed us; they look after our countryside and make sure that our environment is clean. Without them, our rural landscapes would look very different.

At the other, consumer-facing end of the food supply chain are the large supermarkets. Around 95% of the food consumed in this country is sold by just 12 retailers, many of which are multibillion-pound listed companies. The disparity in bargaining strength between those companies and the small family firms that I mentioned is obvious. The supermarkets have the power to drive hard bargains with their suppliers, most of whom are not farmers but commercial intermediaries. Inevitably, the pressure that the supermarkets exert down the supply chain is felt most keenly by the small farmers and growers at the beginning of that chain. According to the agricultural charity Sustain, farmers often receive less than a penny of the profit generated by their produce, with farm businesses increasingly relying on subsidies to break even, and 40% of farms earning less than £25,000 annually.

The impact of that behaviour is felt throughout the supply chain. My constituents Liz Kameen and her husband trade as Vale Grocer in Prion, Denbeigh. They supply vegetable boxes in the locality. They are small-scale growers who have chosen not to try to sell to supermarkets directly. Instead, they have created their own customer base, which they supply. She tells me:

“As we supplement produce we grow with produce from organic farms around the UK, we are very concerned about the impact of supermarket behaviour on those producers.

If we lose any of our suppliers we cannot continue offering the amazing veg and fruit we do currently.”

The pressures inherent in the food supply chain have long been recognised. They led to the creation of the groceries supply code of practice, which, as we have heard, is enforced by the Groceries Code Adjudicator. Although the code is welcome so far as it goes, it does not go far enough to afford adequate—or, indeed, any—protection to smaller famers. That is because it only governs the relationship between the supermarkets and their contractual suppliers, who are very rarely the farmers and growers. The GCA is therefore unable to intervene where the practices of supermarkets cause hardship to those small family firms.

In September last year, the GCA published a report on his deep-dive survey of the conduct of supermarkets, in which he noted complaints that some supermarkets had chosen to conduct “warfare” with suppliers and had displayed a lack of good faith in negotiations. Such behaviour ultimately has a heavy impact on small producers.

The campaign launched by Mr Singh-Watson calls for new powers for the adjudicator that would enable him to take a more effective and, in appropriate circumstances, punitive stance against unfair practices in the supply chain. It further calls for the code of practice to be revised, embedding the principles that retailers must buy what they agreed to buy, pay what they agreed to pay, and pay on time without exception. Those are entirely fair and reasonable requests; decent retailers should be only too happy for the code to be amended in that way, because that is the way they should be behaving anyway. However, that is not always how they behave. Riverford Organic Farmers cites the example of a potato farmer who was told that his potatoes were no longer wanted by the supermarket he was supplying. He was left with 60 tonnes of potatoes and no customer. Such practices will naturally have a devastating impact on farmers.

Research conducted by Riverford indicates that 49% of farmers fear that they will go out of business in the next year; 61% said that supply chain unfairness was adversely affecting their mental health. It is entirely unacceptable that people with a vital role in the nation’s food supply should be driven to feel this way. Riverford, Sustain and the other campaigners are right: the code of practice needs to be brought up to date and up to standard.

I know the Government recognise the unfairness in the food supply chain. The Agriculture Act 2020 enables the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs to introduce statutory codes of practice, but it has been questioned whether it makes sense for two regimes to co-exist, especially if they will be enforced by two different regulators. The answer should be to amend the code of practice, as called for in the petition. The Government are consulting on contractual relationships in the fresh produce industry, and I understand that that consultation will close on 22 February. I very much hope that its outcome, informed by this debate, will be that those amendments will be made as soon as possible to provide fairness for the United Kingdom’s farmers and growers.

--- Later in debate ---

[Ben Lake (Ceredigion) (PC)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mrs Murray. I thank the hon. Member for Neath (Christina Rees) for securing this important debate and the petitioners for bringing it to the attention of the House. It is also a pleasure to follow my friend, the hon. Member for Totnes (Anthony Mangnall). I was struck by the constructive point he made about how, in the spirit of cross-party consensus and co-operation, we can address many of the concerns in rapid order. It is in that vein that I make my own remarks this afternoon.

The strengthening and broadening of the scope of the groceries supply code of practice is necessary; as has been rehearsed already by those far more eloquent than I, it is also very timely. It is important to emphasise at the outset that our farmers, including those in Ceredigion, find themselves in a situation of severe uncertainty. We have already heard quite a bit about the impact of inflation; I do not need to rehearse the statistics, other than to say that the spikes in input and production costs have been severe.

Although inflation in terms of many of those input costs has come down, they are not reducing—there has not been deflation. Many of our farmers are still struggling with heightened input costs. This is also a time when unfair and quite extraordinary trading practices have been exercised by too many of the large grocery industry businesses. As the hon. Member for North Shropshire (Helen Morgan) mentioned, there has been a pincer effect on many of our farmers, who find themselves vulnerable. It is timely that we should be debating some of these changes this afternoon.

Farmers across the United Kingdom, and specifically in my own constituency of Ceredigion, value certainty. The businesses are built on long-term models, due to the investments required in agriculture and the growing and production cycles. So, yes, as we have heard, farmers are particularly vulnerable to inflation spikes but also to the extraordinary and unfair trading practices that arise from the severe power imbalance that many Members have described in detail this afternoon.

The fact is that the buying power of the groceries sector affords it a significant ability to apply short-term pressures on suppliers and producers, without much understanding of the long-term consequences. We have seen that power dynamic play out to disastrous effect over the past 18 to 24 months, particularly in the horticultural and poultry sectors. Other sectors also complain of severe practices being aggressively applied by some of the larger companies. It is quite appalling to hear about people being told at the very last moment that they are no required to produce as much, and the hon. Member for Neath mentioned lettuces. Others are finding that their contracts or verbal agreements are being changed with little notice. Indeed, some growers find out the price they will be paid for their produce only when they come to harvest. For an industry that is so dependent on certainty and long-term planning, these practices are simply disastrous, so it is right that we debate ways to address them and to restore some balance of power across the supply chain.

The right hon. Member for, I believe, Vale of Clwyd—

[Mr David Jones]

Clwyd West.

Animal Welfare (Kept Animals) Bill

David Jones Excerpts

2nd reading
Monday 25th October 2021 Commons Chamber

[Mr David Jones (Clwyd West) (Con)]

Like every other hon. and right hon. Member who has spoken, I am pleased to welcome this Bill, which contains progressive animal welfare measures that, in some cases, are long overdue and deliver on the manifesto pledges contained in the 2019 Conservative manifesto. As that manifesto put it,

“High standards of animal welfare are one of the hallmarks of a civilised society”,

and this country has always been ahead of the field on animal welfare.

The restrictions provided for in the Bill on keeping primates are absolutely right. Primates, as we have heard, are highly intellectually sophisticated creatures with complex needs that should be kept only in specialised, properly adapted conditions, which is what the Bill will achieve. Similarly, the restrictions on the import of pet animals will, as we have heard from many hon. Members, address the long-standing and worrying issue of puppy smuggling.

I also welcome the provisions relating to dogs that worry livestock. I represent a largely rural constituency, and I know the damage that dogs can do to sheep and other livestock if not properly controlled. It is good that the Government have decided to update the law in this area, but may I suggest that the provisions in the Bill still do not go quite far enough? The maximum fine that can be imposed under the Bill is £1,000. As my hon. Friend the Minister will know, my hon. Friend the Member for Ynys Môn (Virginia Crosbie) introduced her own ten-minute rule Bill on 20 July on this very issue. She pointed out the inadequacy of that fine, when farmers frequently face losses of many thousands of pounds. I agree with my hon. Friend and suggest that the upper limit of the fine should be reconsidered. In our rural areas, dog worrying is a serious concern and a heavier fine is more than justified in order to deter irresponsible dog ownership.

I strongly support the provisions prohibiting the export of livestock for slaughter, which is a very stressful practice for the animals concerned. In all my time in this House, I dare say I have had more letters from constituents on this issue than most others. The ability of Parliament to legislate for the prohibition of the export of live animals for slaughter is a direct benefit of our departure from the European Union. I congratulate the Government on introducing this measure.

I will turn to the provisions relating to zoos contained in part 3 and schedule 5, and I would like to consider them in a little detail. I have a particular interest in this matter, as vice-chair of the all-party parliamentary group for zoos and aquariums under the inspired and, as we have heard today, heroic leadership of my hon. Friend the Member for Romford (Andrew Rosindell). I echo his words entirely. The late David Amess would be delighted to know that this Bill was going through. If ever there were a proper memorial for our dear friend, this Bill is it.

I have a further interest, in that my constituency is home to the Welsh Mountain zoo, the national zoo of Wales. The zoo’s chief executive, Mr Nick Jackson, is a highly respected figure in animal conservation in the United Kingdom and is also a Government zoo inspector of some 37 years’ standing. I have found his advice on the Bill invaluable, and my remarks have been significantly informed by his advice.

It need hardly be said that zoos are an important national asset, with significant societal benefits in recreation and education. Perhaps most importantly, British zoos are a hugely important international resource for animal conservation. The British and Irish Association of Zoos and Aquariums, or BIAZA, is a conservation, education and scientific wildlife charity. It is the principal professional organisation representing zoos and aquariums in the UK, and the APPG works very closely with it. BIAZA zoos participate in more than 800 conservation projects and 1,400 research projects and deliver education sessions to more than 1 million students every year. It is an internationally respected organisation in the field, and its views should be listened to.

Both BIAZA and Mr Nick Jackson have expressed concern about certain provisions of the Bill. The preparatory work for the Bill, and its amendment of the Zoo Licensing Act 1981, have been proceeding over the past two years in tandem with a revision of the Secretary of State’s standards of modern zoo practice. Those standards are periodically revised and updated in the light of modern zoo thinking, under secondary legislation provided for by the 1981 Act. This process of periodic revision of the standards is fully supported by the British zoos community.

Although the Government’s advisory body on zoos, the Zoos Expert Committee, has been involved in the revision of the standards, there has been, according to Mr Jackson and BIAZA, a somewhat regrettable lack of consultation with the wider zoo community throughout the process. That is a matter of concern, because the Bill’s provisions transfer the broad definition of zoo conservation out of primary legislation—currently under section 1A of the 1981 Act—and into secondary legislation: that is, into the Secretary of State’s standards through schedule 5 to the Bill. It amounts to a significant transfer of power to the Secretary of State, who will be able to create new obligations, or amend existing ones, in terms of the conservation role of zoos, with minimal parliamentary scrutiny. There is concern that this change is proposed to be made without sufficient consultation with BIAZA or the wider zoos community.

BIAZA and individual zoos fully understand the Government’s desire to strengthen the conservation role of zoos through legislation, and they acknowledge that good zoos have nothing to fear from good regulation. However, it is a concern that, under the Bill, prescribed conservation activities will no longer be set out in primary legislation, but will be moved to secondary legislation through the repeal of section 1A of the 1981 Act. On the face of it, that may seem a good idea, giving the Secretary of State flexibility to modernise zoo conservation standards over time as the needs of the natural world change, without having to return each time to Parliament to amend the primary legislation. I dare say that is why it is so framed.

However, that same flexibility could feasibly also result in moves, for example, to interpret the conservation role of zoos narrowly and lose touch with the broad understanding of zoo conservation as accepted by zoo associations across the world, by global conservation organisations such as the International Union for Conservation of Nature, and by the public. I therefore would be grateful if the Minister confirmed why it has been decided to move the definition of conservation from primary legislation. Why is it not on the face of the Bill? Conservation, after all, is the bedrock of all modern zoo activity. Surely, therefore, at least its key elements should remain within primary legislation.

That is not to say that conservation should necessarily remain as defined in section 1A of the 1981 Act. That definition probably should be modernised. If, however, there is a good reason for not incorporating the definition of conservation activities into the Bill, at least mechanisms should be put in place to ensure full transparency and proper consultation and accountability when that definition comes to be compiled and revised.

One possible mechanism could be to enhance the role of the Zoos Expert Committee, with clearly prescribed functions in advising on the formulation of conservation obligations and any revisions. The ZEC could have similar powers to the newly proposed animal sentience committee to publish independent advice to which the Secretary of State must then respond.

Finally, a further concern is that, under section 18(l)(b) of the 1981 Act, a zoo can appeal if aggrieved by a condition attached to its licence. Paragraph 17(2)(a) of schedule 5 to the Bill removes that right. That will preclude appeal against any condition relating to standards specified in section 9 of the 1981 Act, which under paragraph 9(3)(b) of schedule 5 will be conservation standards. However well-crafted a standard may be, there is always a danger that it could be applied incorrectly. A right of appeal is surely therefore necessary, and perhaps the Minister can explain why it is thought appropriate to preclude such a right.

To conclude, I ask the Minister to give careful consideration to the concerns expressed by such respected organisations as BIAZA and such respected figures as Mr Nick Jackson. This Bill is good and highly welcome, but it could be even better. I therefore strongly urge the Government to give serious consideration to the points I have raised with a view to putting forward appropriate improvements when the Bill goes into Committee.

Oral Answers to Questions

David Jones Excerpts

Thursday 19th March 2020 Commons Chamber

[George Eustice]

When it comes to public procurement, for a number of years, we have had an approach called the balanced scorecard, which means that it is not all about price and that our procurement authorities should also take into account quality and other factors, too.

[Mr David Jones (Clwyd West) (Con)]

The spring selling season will soon be upon us. Across the country, against the background of the coronavirus crisis, farmers will be concerned to establish whether they will be able to buy and sell their livestock. Can the Secretary of State give any reassurance to farmers as to the extent to which they will be able to use their local farmers auction markets?

Agriculture Bill

David Jones Excerpts

2nd reading & 2nd reading: House of Commons & Money resolution: House of Commons & Programme motion: House of Commons & Money resolution & Programme motion
Monday 3rd February 2020 Commons Chamber

[Mr David Jones (Clwyd West) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to be called to speak after so many excellent maiden speeches on both sides of the Chamber today. I would invidiously single out the contribution of my constituency near neighbour, my hon. Friend the Member for Ynys Môn (Virginia Crosbie), who is one of seven Conservatives now representing constituencies in north Wales.

I strongly welcome and support the Bill, which ensures the Government’s continued support for all those across the United Kingdom whose livelihoods depend on the agricultural sector. It provides certainty and I am sure great reassurance to farmers across the country. I represent a Welsh constituency with a strong agricultural heritage in which a great deal of economic activity and employment are linked to and depend on farming, particularly livestock farming. Indeed, the importance of livestock farming to my constituents is such that the decision to include within the Bill changes to the red meat levy will be greatly appreciated. The current system of levy is seriously flawed, in that it depends entirely upon the location of the slaughterhouse rather than the place of production. In north Wales, the decline in the number of slaughterhouses means that animals reared in north Wales are increasingly sent to England for slaughter. The consequence has been a severe loss of income to the Welsh meat promotion entity, Hybu Cig Cymru, and therefore a reduction in its ability to promote Welsh meat, which is, of course, among the finest in the world.

The Welsh livestock industry has long been calling for reform of the levy basis. The provisions in the Bill to enable the creation of a more equitable scheme, under which those who rear the animal and add value benefit from the levy payments, have already been widely praised by industry groups. It is essential that, once the powers provided by the Bill are in place, the Government, the devolved Administrations and the meat promotion bodies work swiftly together to ensure that a fair and effective scheme is implemented as soon as possible.

It is also good that the Bill imposes an obligation on Ministers to report regularly to Parliament on the issue of UK food security, although, like other contributors, I would suggest that a more regular report might be appropriate. In an increasingly uncertain global environment, food security should be at the forefront of our minds and be subject to constant reassessment. It must always be remembered that farmers, although they are also certainly stewards of our landscape, are primarily food producers. While protecting our environment is of course a matter of fundamental importance, so is ensuring that as we move out into the wider world after Brexit, farmers do not just become ”land managers”. Rather, they must be given every opportunity to become efficient and highly competitive businesses in the global marketplace, and to enable even more of our world-renowned agricultural products to be sold in markets old and new the world over. I am therefore pleased to note the provision in clause 1(4) that, in framing any financial assistance scheme, the Secretary of State must have regard to the need to encourage the production of food in an environmentally sustainable way. It is, of course, an England-only provision, but I am sure that farmers in my constituency will hope that it will be emulated in the Welsh Government’s own agriculture Bill.

In that connection, I have to say that it is a disappointment that the Welsh Government have decided not to take powers in this Bill to operate new schemes in Wales post Brexit, as was the case under the 2018 Bill, but to introduce their own domestic legislation later. The delay may well push the implementation of a new scheme beyond the Welsh Assembly elections in 2021, with the risk that payments under the basic payment scheme will have to be reduced for the 2021 claim year. I therefore hope that the Minister will be able to give my constituents some reassurance about the level of support that they will receive for the 2021 claim year in the absence of timely legislation from the Welsh Government.

African Lion Numbers

David Jones Excerpts

Tuesday 24th November 2015 Westminster Hall

[Mr David Jones (Clwyd West) (Con)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered the decline in African lion numbers.

It is a pleasure, Mr Hamilton, to serve under your chairmanship. It is good to have the opportunity to draw attention to the continuing and worrying decline in the number of African lions. This is by no means the first such debate in this Chamber. Almost precisely five years ago, my hon. Friend the Member for Isle of Wight (Mr Turner) secured one during which he identified the pressures on the species that have accumulated over several decades.

In his debate, my hon. Friend pointed out that in the 1960s it was estimated that some 200,000 lions roamed the African continent. At the time of his debate, the numbers had declined to some 20,000. However, more recent estimates indicate that the number of lions has now declined to fewer than 15,000—by any standards, that is worrying. In central and western Africa, only a few scattered groups remain. It is estimated that in all Africa only six significant populations are left: in Tanzania, northern Botswana and the Kruger national park in South Africa. Data released in June by the International Union for Conservation of Nature revealed that the African lion population has undergone a reduction of approximately 43% over the past 21 years. The IUCN has accordingly classified the species overall as vulnerable.

The more detailed picture is mixed. In South Africa, the lion is categorised as of least concern on the IUCN’s red list, although that assessment is a matter of some dispute. In west Africa, the lion meets the criteria for “critically endangered”. The IUCN reports that lions have been extirpated in 12 African countries and it is suspected that there has been recent extirpation in another four.

A recent paper in the proceedings of the US National Academy of Sciences comments that the

“rapid disappearance of lions suggests a major trophic downgrading of African ecosystems with the lion no longer playing a pivotal role as apex predator.”

There are various reasons for the decline in African lion numbers. The IUCN reports that the most important is indiscriminate killing in defence of human life and livestock, habitat loss and prey-based depletion. As my hon. Friend the Member for Isle of Wight pointed out five years ago, lion habitat is increasingly being given over to agriculture to feed rapidly growing human populations. He said:

“Where lions come into contact with humans, history has long shown that lions must make way.”—[Official Report, 17 November 2010; Vol. 518, c. 315WH.]

The change in land use means that the lion is being progressively excluded from its ancient habitats. A paper published in the proceedings of the US National Academy of Sciences suggests that intensively managed locations

“in southern Africa may soon supersede the savannah landscapes in east Africa as the most successful sites for lion conservation”.

Certainly in southern Africa, lion population numbers are under less threat, but that is due in part to the reintroduction of lions not into the wild as we would know it, but into small, intensively-managed and funded reserves. I suggest that it is a matter of the utmost sadness that so important a creature as the African lion should be consigned to a future life behind fences.

The word “iconic” is one of the most over-used but it can be justly applied to the lion. It is indeed the noblest of creatures, featuring prominently in the iconography of many nations over many centuries; nowhere is that more the case than here in the Palace of Westminster, where carved stone lions are among the most prominent decorative features of this great building. Indeed, all of us in this Chamber today passed a stone lion seated at the foot of the stairs just outside the Jubilee Room.

In no country on earth is the lion more revered than here in Britain. Indeed, it is our national symbol, featuring everywhere from our royal arms to the door knocker of No. 10 Downing Street. Our national rugby side is named after it. Three lions appear on the English football shirt and, going one better, four lions appear on the standard of the Prince of Wales. The red lion is featured on the Scottish standard and perhaps best known of all are the four Landseer lions that guard the monument to our national hero, Nelson, in Trafalgar Square.

The lion is important to us in Britain and I believe that we as a nation can and should do more to safeguard its future. For example, given the declining trend in lion numbers, it is astonishing that the despicable sport of hunting lions for trophies is still allowed. No other species in such worrying decline has been allowed to suffer additional mortality for commercial purposes. A particular concern is that trophy hunting targets male lions, a very small part of the lion population.

--- Later in debate ---

On resuming—

[Mr Jones]

I was saying that a particular concern is that trophy hunting targets male lions—a very small part of the lion population. Targeting male lions has had significant consequences for lion populations, because lions are social animals. In addition, new males that take over the pride of a dead lion will resort to infanticide—killing the cubs of the former dominant male. The rapid replacement of male lions in prides, caused by excessive trophy hunting, will therefore result in negative reproductive rates among lion populations, hastening the process of decline.

Of course, the trophy hunting of lions is a practice that continues overseas, beyond the reach even of the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs. However, Britain is in a pivotal position internationally. It is an important member of the European Union, the Commonwealth and international conservation bodies such as the convention on international trade in endangered species—CITES. I believe that Britain should be exerting its influence to help to reduce the level of sport hunting that goes on in Africa.

Sport hunting achieved international attention, not to mention notoriety, earlier this year with the shooting in Zimbabwe of Cecil the lion. Cecil was one of the best known lions in Africa. He had been studied by Oxford University scientists as part of a project that had run since 1999. He had an ugly and distressing death: he was lured out of the reserve in which he lived, shot with a bow and arrow, stalked for a further 40 hours and then killed by a dentist from Minnesota who was armed with a rifle. Cecil was then skinned and his head was removed as a trophy. The dentist in question has been on the receiving end of much international opprobrium since that incident. I mention it now not to add to his already considerable discomfiture, but to draw attention to what can only be described as a sordid industry that is affecting the viability of the species, while causing huge individual distress to these beautiful creatures.

The Cecil episode illuminated the dark side of trophy hunting. It also gave the lie to the often repeated suggestion that trophy hunting somehow contributes to sustaining the species. If trophy hunting is indeed sustainable, why do the operators of trophy hunts resort to illegal activities such as luring a lion out of a game reserve? If their activities are indeed sustainable, the organisers’ concessions should be brimming with lions, but the fact is that they are not.

The truth is that trophy hunting is a nasty, despicable business that contributes to the depletion of lion numbers. I believe that ideally it should be stopped and that our Government could do much more to help to stop it. I urge my hon. Friend the Minister to call on the British representative on CITES to help to end the promotion of the concept of “sustainable” trophy hunting. That concept has been promoted for more than two decades, but there is nothing to show for it in terms of lion conservation.

I also urge the Government to engage more actively in preventing the further decline of African lions and to help to put in place strictly scientifically based conservation programmes. An early step should be the funding of an independent and impartial census that will for the first time establish precisely what lion populations remain, so that we can assess more accurately the true scale of the problem.

[Mr Ranil Jayawardena (North East Hampshire) (Con)]

I congratulate my right hon. Friend on securing the debate. The World Wide Fund for Nature predicts that between 30% and 50% of all species will be heading towards extinction by 2050. Does my right hon Friend agree with me and the other members of the all-party group on endangered species that the international community urgently needs to take steps to safeguard wildlife and push for greater co-operation to secure habitats, stop poachers and end the illegal wildlife trade?

[Mr Jones]

I agree entirely. This is an international issue and it requires international co-ordination. While I am referring to my hon. Friend, I should congratulate him on being the chair of the newly formed all-party group on endangered species. That group was long overdue for establishment, and I am glad to see him as its chair.

Wildlife tourism accounts for more than 10% of GDP in some African lion range states that still allow trophy hunting. The Government should be explaining that a lion can be shot only once with a rifle, but many thousands of times with a camera. In the long term, photographic tourism is much more beneficial both to the economies of those African states and to lion numbers.

We should also bear down on the import of lion trophies by banning it. Australia recently imposed such a ban, the first in the world, and I am delighted to say that last week France followed suit. We in Britain should not lag behind.

[Andy Slaughter (Hammersmith) (Lab)]

I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for drawing our attention to a very serious issue. He has painted a necessarily bleak picture. I agree with him that conservation is very important, and trophy hunting should be banned. Does he agree that organisations such as AfriCat, which has worked for 25 years in Namibia with the local population to sustain and grow the lion population, show us the way we should be going? Does he agree that we need to see more such organisations and fewer attempts to reduce the lion population through hunting?

[Mr Jones]

I agree with the hon. Gentleman. There are a number of effective charities, many of them British-based, and I shall refer to another one later.

I would like to mention the loathsome practice of the so-called canned hunting of lions, which is practised mainly in South Africa. Lions are reared from tiny cubs by paying volunteers who are recruited by agencies, some of which are based here in the United Kingdom. The volunteers believe that they are contributing to the conservation of the species.

As the cubs grow, they are made available to be petted by visitors and even rented out as accessories at wedding ceremonies. As they grow further, they are used for lion-walking safaris, which are priced at about $200 per participant. When they become too large and dangerous, they are placed in enclosures to be visited by the paying public as though in a properly managed zoo. When they attain the right size, they are offered to trophy hunters to be shot in enclosures at a price of up to $50,000. Finally in this chain of profitable exploitation, their bones are exported to the far east where they are used in traditional Chinese medicine. That is the most disgraceful and revolting abuse of an important and beautiful creature, and it was extensively revealed in a recent film, “Blood Lions”. British trophy hunters participate in that disgusting practice, and I believe that the Government should at least ensure that they are prevented from returning to this country with the spoils of their activities.

Finally, may I commend the activities of the British charity LionAid, which has done much to help focus international attention on the crisis that threatens to wipe out this important species? Christine MacSween and Dr Pieter Kat of LionAid are both here today, and I thank them both for the help that they have given me in preparing for this debate. I am also pleased that my hon. Friend the Member for North East Hampshire (Mr Jayawardena) has been able to attend the debate, and I again wish him well in his new role as chair of the all-party group on endangered species.

I am grateful for the opportunity to raise this matter, and I look forward to hearing from the Minister about what the British Government propose to do to help to conserve this important species, which is so dear to the hearts of the British people.

--- Later in debate ---

[Rory Stewart]

That is an important point. This is not a black and white issue, nor an either/or. There are very good projects of exactly that sort. In addition to the project to which the hon. Gentlemanrefers, DEFRA has worked with the University of Oxford’s Wildlife Conservation Research Unit—WildCRU. It has recently done an extraordinary project, which has seen a decline of nearly 50% in predation of lions by communities using some of the measures that the hon. Gentleman mentioned. Such measures include radio collaring of lions so that communities can be alerted to the proximity of lions; the use of donkeys and dogs to alert people; better stock management techniques; and compensation for the loss of stock to lions. All those need to be part of the panoply of measures taken to ensure that human populations and lion populations continue to live happily together. They must absolutely be taken on board, and that will be one of the challenges. It is one of the things that people have been looking closely at in Kenya, and on which we can make more improvements across the board.

In the end, as my hon. Friend the Member for Stafford (Jeremy Lefroy) implied, and indeed as my right hon. Friend the Member for Clwyd West stated, these are issues predominantly for African countries. The challenge for the United Kingdom, Europe and the United States is, above all, to conserve lion populations. What we should be doing—the end for all of us to bear in mind—is trying to ensure that we end up with a stable, serious, resilient lion population in 25, 50, 100 and 500 years’ time. The question of the means to that end is a massive scientific controversy. George Schaller and Craig Packer have weighed in, and Andrew Loveridge and David Macdonald from Oxford University have contributed a great deal on the subject.

For DEFRA, trophy hunting is a serious issue. We have to ensure that when hunting takes place, at the very least it does not involve the kind of activities that my right hon. Friend the Member for Clwyd West mentioned. Therefore, I use this opportunity to state that the Government will ban the importation of trophies into Britain unless we see very significant improvements in what is happening in Africa. We will look closely at key indicators, including the age of the lions involved—the latest scientific research pushes for that to be over six. As an interim measure, we will look closely at quotas and at international verification.

The Government have already moved to take Benin and Ethiopia off the list of countries from which we are prepared to import lion trophies, and we will be moving against Zambia and Mozambique. We are working with our European Union and American partners to make it very clear that, unless there is a significant improvement in the performance of the hunting industry and of those countries, this Government will move to ban lion trophies.

[Mr David Jones]

I am pleased to hear that announcement. Will the Minister go a little further and give some indication as to over how long a period this assessment will take place?

[Rory Stewart]

As the Minister, I would like this to happen in a short timeframe. I am looking at something in the order of two years, but we need to pin that down. I want to ensure that we work closely with the academic experts and the African countries. The only way in which conservation will work is by bringing African countries with us. It will not work by me pontificating, or by alienating populations including a Tanzanian population that has many problems. However, I am talking about something of that level. We need to set a deadline, have clear indicators and to say, “If we haven’t achieved our objectives by that date, we will ban the importation of trophies.” The key is not only the United Kingdom and Europe but the United States. We have to bring the United States with us. The number of licensed trophies that came into Britain last year was two. The difference will happen at an international level, and we have to work with Europe and the United States.

In the meantime, I am proud that DEFRA continues to fund serious projects through the Darwin initiative and the illegal wildlife trade challenge fund in order to provide for the protection of lions. I thank my right hon. Friend the Member for Clwyd West for securing the debate, and I thank LionAid for its work in raising the issue in our consciousness. I look forward to continuing this serious, scientific discussion to achieve what we all want—the preservation of lions.

Question put and agreed to.

Animal Welfare (Non-stun Slaughter)

David Jones Excerpts

Monday 23rd February 2015 Westminster Hall

[Mr David Jones (Clwyd West) (Con)]

I welcome you to the Chair, Mr Havard. I am grateful for the opportunity to participate in this important debate. As we have heard, it has attracted a great amount of attention. The e-petition on which the debate is based has attracted, according to my iPhone, more than 116,000 signatories. On the other hand, the other petition, which is aimed at protecting religious slaughter, has attracted more than 124,000 signatories. This issue clearly attracts a great deal of interest and arouses a great deal of passion, and it is a credit to Members of this House that the debate is being conducted in such a calm and rational manner.

We must not be under any illusions. As my right hon. Friend the Member for South East Cambridgeshire (Sir James Paice) pointed out, any form of animal slaughter is a distressing business and all rational people, whatever their beliefs, would wish to do all they can to minimise, if not obviate altogether, any suffering caused to another sentient creature. In that regard, the scientific evidence is clear: stunning minimises the distress caused to the animal before and at the time of slaughter. The Dialrel report of 2010, for example, stated:

“It can be stated with high probability that animals feel pain during and after the throat cut without prior stunning.”

It also found that in the case of stunned slaughter, the hazards of restraint stress and injury were low, as were pain and suffering during the cut and immediately afterwards, while in the case of slaughter without stunning, those hazards were considered to be high. On purely scientific grounds, therefore, it seems clear that the case for stunned slaughter is strong.

It is with good reason, therefore, that European law and United Kingdom law require that animals should be stunned before slaughter, but as we have heard, the relevant EU directive permits member states to apply a derogation to permit non-stunned slaughter for religious purposes. Out of understandable consideration for religious beliefs, the UK and certain other member states have decided to apply the derogation, but it is clear, as my hon. Friend the Member for Kettering (Mr Hollobone) pointed out in his excellent opening remarks, that there is no uniformity in how that derogation has been applied. In some countries, such as Denmark and Sweden, non-stunned slaughter is not permitted. In others, such as Austria, Estonia, Finland and Slovakia, post-incision stunning is required if the animal has not been previously stunned. That is the halfway house my right hon. Friend the Member for South East Cambridgeshire mentioned.

Interestingly and importantly—this was mentioned by my hon. Friend the Member for Kettering—in Germany, where the derogation has been applied, abattoirs have to prove the religious needs of the community concerned before a licence is granted. There may well be different approaches to the interpretation of the derogation by individual states, but all the member states I have mentioned have a great deal more clarity on how the derogation has been applied than the United Kingdom. Indeed, I specifically ask the Minister to address the lack of clarity in the application of the UK derogation.

The fact is that in the UK in 2013, some 15% of sheep and goats were not stunned before slaughter. That is some 2.4 million animals. Given that the Muslim and Jewish communities together comprise only 4% to 5% of the British population, and given that most halal meat —we have heard that the figure is 80%—is from stunned animals, it follows that a significant proportion of sheep and goat meat from non-stunned slaughter is being supplied otherwise than to the market for which it was intended. In other words, I would go so far as to say —this was touched on by my hon. Friend the Member for Thirsk and Malton (Miss McIntosh)—that there seems to be a gross over-provision of non-stun slaughterhouses in this country, and I would be interested to hear what the Government intend to do about it. The extent of non-stunned slaughter in this country tends to go against the UK and EU legislation.

[Ms Diane Abbott (Hackney North and Stoke Newington) (Lab)]

Surely the point that the right hon. Gentleman raises is about labelling, rather than the nature of the stunning.

[Mr Jones]

Not entirely. If more non-stunned slaughter is being carried out in this country than is required for religious purposes, there is an over-provision of non-stunned slaughter. The point that the hon. Lady makes on labelling is absolutely right, however. It is unacceptable that meat from non-stunned animals should be sold in this country without that being drawn to the attention of potential consumers. While we have heard suggestions today that the precise methods of non-stunned or stunned slaughter should be drawn to consumers’ attention, my view is that “stunned” or “non-stunned” is at least a clear and understandable starting point for labelling, and I believe it would be widely welcomed. We have already heard that simply to label meat as “halal” or “kosher” would be insufficient, for all the reasons that have already been advanced.

It emerged last year that the restaurant chain PizzaExpress had been serving halal-only chicken for some considerable time without drawing that to the attention of consumers. Labelling goes beyond what is displayed in the butcher’s shop or on the supermarket shelves. People in restaurants must have a clear choice as to what they are being offered, so labelling should extend to menus in restaurants.

We must ensure that only the appropriate level of non-stunned meat is allowed to be sold in this country. Similarly, it is essential that consumers know precisely what is being offered for sale before they buy it and put it on their families’ plates.

--- Later in debate ---

[George Eustice]

The food business operator—the operator of the abattoir—is legally required to ensure that those are followed, but I point out that an official veterinarian is present at every abattoir and it is their job to enforce them. I shall return to the issue of enforcement later.

In addition, the regulations require that before each animal is slaughtered, the knife must be checked to ensure it is sharp and undamaged, and that the cut must be a rapid and uninterrupted movement that cuts both carotid arteries and veins.

Other national rules concern the so-called standstill times for cattle, sheep and goats: following the neck cut, the animal cannot be moved, in the case of bovines, until it is unconscious and at least 30 seconds have passed, or, in the case of sheep and goats, until at least 20 seconds have passed. The standstill times aim to provide protection from avoidable pain, suffering and distress caused, for example, by unnecessary movement while the animal is still conscious.

Although there are no standstill rules as such for poultry, there are still a number of national rules that aim to minimise pain, suffering and distress. Following the neck cut, no further dressing procedure can be carried out on the bird until it is unconscious and at least two minutes have elapsed, in the case of turkeys and geese; for all other birds it is 90 seconds.

I set those regulations out in detail because it is important to recognise that there are special, strict requirements where religious slaughter is carried out. However, hon. Members should recognise another important point: none of the exemptions we have for religious slaughter exempt any operator from their obligations under the Animal Welfare Act 2006. It is the role of the official veterinarians in the abattoirs to decide when it may be necessary to go in, as required under the regulations, and use a bolt gun where something goes wrong. I shall return to that point later.

As my hon. Friend the Member for Kettering pointed out, there are also differing requirements right across Europe, as provided for in the European regulations. In Germany, for example, abattoirs have to prove the religious needs and the number of animals to be slaughtered to satisfy the needs of the religious community concerned before being granted a licence. My hon. Friend asked whether we could look at that further, as did the shadow Minister. It is an interesting area and following this debate, given the apparent support from hon. Members, I would be willing to look at it. However, the existing standstill times are already a powerful disincentive for the mainstreaming of religious slaughter, because they make the process much slower. It is therefore not really in the interests of any abattoir to conduct religious slaughter in accordance with the regulations unless it is for a specific need.

[Mr David Jones]

Why are such a high proportion of sheep and goats being killed by the non-stun method? The figure is 15%, as we have heard, whereas the Jewish and Muslim population of this country accounts for only some 5% of the total population.

[George Eustice]

I am not sure. I will have to check those particular figures. We know, for instance, that around 73% of all halal meat slaughtered is already stunned before it is slaughtered, and as many hon. Members pointed out, the amount of kosher meat on the market is a very small proportion. However, this is an interesting area, and it is something that I have looked at. I do not think that it gets away from the broader dilemma of the debate, but nevertheless, it is worthy of further consideration.

In the Netherlands, all animals must be stunned if they have not lost consciousness within 40 seconds of the cut. In France, there must be a post-cut stun if cattle are still conscious after 90 seconds. Other countries—notably Finland, Austria, Estonia and Slovakia—go further in requiring immediate post-cut stunning, whereas Denmark requires post-cut stunning in bovines only.

Further afield, as several hon. Members have pointed out, under Australian law, stunning at slaughter is required, but there is an option for a state or meat inspection authority to provide an exemption and approve an abattoir for ritual slaughter without prior stunning for the domestic market, but post-cut stunning is still a requirement for those animals.

As we have plenty of time, I want to move on to other points that hon. Members have raised. Having discussed this issue with my right hon. Friend the Member for South East Cambridgeshire (Sir James Paice), who was one of my predecessors in this role, I know that this is something he has looked at. I can tell him that I have looked at it in equal detail since and that finding a consensus among the various parties concerned is no easier than it ever was. However, I want to pick up on a few issues that he highlighted.

My right hon. Friend described a situation in an abattoir in which several sheep were in a V restrainer conveyor simultaneously. That would be a breach of the existing regulations. There should never be more than one sheep in a sheep restrainer for the purposes of religious slaughter, because, as I have pointed out, the requirement is very clear that they cannot go into the slaughter pen—in this case, the V restrainer—until they are ready to be slaughtered. That is very important, because sheep have a natural tendency to want to flock, and putting them in a restrainer where they are held firm, while there are the standstill times and other sheep taking 15 or 20 seconds ahead of them, is not right. That is a breach of the existing regulations.

My right hon. Friend raised valid points on the time to unconsciousness. I remember well him describing to me seeing cattle take up to six minutes to lose consciousness. I hear various ranges for the time to loss of consciousness. There is a consensus that chickens are normally unconscious within 15 to 20 seconds. Likewise, I am told that 10 to 15 seconds is typical in the case of sheep, as he pointed out, and sometimes it is a little longer. However, when it comes to cattle, it is clear that there can be quite wide variances. He says that he witnessed cattle taking between four and six minutes to lose consciousness. I have discussed the matter with our veterinary advisers, some of whom have worked as OVs in abattoirs, and they tell me that it is more typical that, after around 40 seconds, the animal will collapse and go off its legs, and be supported by the restraining pen, and that it will typically then lose consciousness after 1 minute 20 seconds. That is still quite a lot of time, but it is why France has a cut-off point of 1 minute 30 seconds, after which a post-cut stun is required. At the other extreme, I have met former staff of the FSA who have told me that they have seen shechita abattoirs do this particularly effectively, with the animal collapsing within 10 seconds.

It is also clear that in many of these abattoirs, both halal and shechita—the best ones—where anything goes wrong, they are in quickly with the bolt gun to put the animal out of any pain. That is why I want again to talk about the Animal Welfare Act 2006, under which there is a requirement on an abattoir operator not to cause any unnecessary suffering to an animal. Where something goes wrong—where, for example, it takes up to five or six minutes for the animal to lose consciousness—there is a clear rationale for an official veterinarian to intervene earlier to say that something had gone wrong and that, as required under the regulations, the animal should be dispatched with a bolt gun.

Further to the fact that I have never been able to get a clear answer on exactly how long it takes for bovines in particular to lose consciousness, some months ago I asked our deputy chief veterinary officer to conduct a piece of work with the FSA to look at the matter afresh and see whether we can, without changing any laws, ensure that we have consistent application of the existing laws and consistent understanding of when it is appropriate for an OV to require that post-cut shot to be taken.

Let me move on to other points. Various hon. Members questioned the science of whether it is better for the welfare of the animals for them to be stunned prior to slaughter. In particular, my hon. Friend the Member for Finchley and Golders Green (Mike Freer) made the good point, which I will concede, that at the time when halal and kosher were designed, they were very much about respect for the animal and sparing it any unnecessary pain. The genesis of both halal and kosher was about animal welfare, albeit that was some time ago.

I also completely accept that there can be good and bad abattoirs. It may be that conventional abattoirs would also mistreat the animals. I completely recognise the point that there are big differences. The only thing that I would say—this is where there is strong cross-party consensus—is that we have to look at the scientific evidence that we have, and the argument that says that the cut itself is equivalent to a stun is not borne out by the scientific evidence. As the shadow Minister pointed out, we had in 2003 the Farm Animal Welfare Committee report, which concluded that non-stun slaughter could cause distress and suffering. In 2004, we had the European Food Safety Authority report, which also concluded that it was preferable to have stunning of all animals. In 2009, the EU DIALREL report reached the same conclusion. It looked at neurological surveys of animals that were being slaughtered in order to establish scientifically whether they were experiencing pain. More recently, work in New Zealand has confirmed the same. It is therefore important that we recognise the basis on which the exemption exists. It is not because we think that somehow religious slaughter, be it halal or shechita, is a more humane way to slaughter animals than what mainstream abattoirs do today. It is because we respect the religious rights of those communities and we have accommodated them in the long-standing derogations that we have in place.

My hon. Friend the Member for Thirsk and Malton (Miss McIntosh) raised the issue of CCTV, on which we have recently had a report from the Farm Animal Welfare Committee. It stops short of saying that there should be compulsory use of CCTV in slaughterhouses. We should recognise that the place in her constituency about which concerns were raised did have CCTV, so it is no panacea on its own. However, the FAWC report does conclude that many advantages come with CCTV. It can also help business managers to manage their operation. For instance, it can reveal lameness in sheep in the lairage pens that would not otherwise be detected. If used correctly, CCTV can be a very useful tool to help business managers to ensure that they are compliant with the regulation and to manage their business operations.

My hon. Friend also mentioned enforcement. I will come to that at the end. Labelling was the other issue that a number of hon. Members raised, and I want to deal with that. There is a European Commission working group. The shadow Minister asked about the timing of the report. It is one of those EU reports that has been delayed and delayed. We initially expected it last summer, then we expected it in the new year, and the latest update that I have had is that it is still some months away, which I think reflects the fact that this is a difficult issue to get right.

Let me give some general pointers. First, there is a very clear legal definition, both in our own law and in European law, of what stunned means for the purposes of abattoirs. It is rendering an animal insensitive to pain instantly or almost instantly, so I think that we can be clear that we could have “Stunned” or “Unstunned” as a form of labelling. My right hon. Friend the Member for South East Cambridgeshire made a very good point about the inability to enforce that sometimes. It would not be easy and it would not necessarily protect all those people who were buying their food from catering establishments, either. There are difficulties in labelling things just as “Halal” or “Kosher”. As a number of hon. Members pointed out, not all parts of the carcase are deemed kosher, even though the animal may have been slaughtered by kosher methods, and there is no single, uniform interpretation of what halal means. Different imams have different interpretations of the rules. We therefore await the report from the European Commission. I have heard it said that there could be labelling that just said “Unstunned” if the animal had not been stunned, but again this, like other issues, is not easy.