Legislating for UK Withdrawal from the EU

Debate between David Davis and Pat McFadden

Thursday 30th March 2017 Commons Chamber

[Mr Davis]

Well, the legal precedence will not necessarily end, but the laws will be susceptible to our change. We will be able to change them both in our courts and in our Parliament.

[Mr Pat McFadden (Wolverhampton South East) (Lab)]

With reference to the criminal justice measures of which we are already a part and the Prime Minister’s article 50 letter yesterday, will the Secretary of State set out for the House how the safety and protection of the public would be enhanced by us reducing our co-operation on crime and terrorism?

[Mr Davis]

As the Prime Minister made plain yesterday, she wants to see a comprehensive agreement. People have interpreted that as comprehensive trade agreement, but it does not just mean that; it means a comprehensive agreement across all the issues where we have a relationship with the European Union.

Article 50

Debate between David Davis and Pat McFadden

Tuesday 24th January 2017 Commons Chamber

[Mr Davis]

Let me say this to my right hon. Friend, who passionately holds a well-formed view on these matters. First, in terms of bringing people together, a large part of the Prime Minister’s speech was aimed at creating a sense of this country that everybody can get behind, ranging from the protection of employment rights through to our role in the world, all of which is very important. Secondly, the Prime Minister laid out an incredibly clear future and a future approach for us, so I think that she did everything one could ask of a Prime Minister to deliver on our undertakings.

My right hon. Friend the Member for Broxtowe (Anna Soubry) talks about things that were not on the ballot paper. What was on the ballot paper was leaving the European Union. I am afraid that it is very difficult to see how we can leave the European Union and still stay inside the single market, with all the commitments that go with that. What we have come up with—I hope to persuade her that this is a very worthwhile aim—is the idea of a comprehensive free trade agreement and a comprehensive customs agreement that will deliver the exact same benefits as we have, but also enable my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for International Trade to go and form trade deals with the rest of the world, which is the real upside of leaving the European Union.

[Mr Pat McFadden (Wolverhampton South East) (Lab)]

Last week in her speech, the Prime Minister said:

“the Government will put the final deal that is agreed between the UK and the EU to a vote in both Houses of Parliament, before it comes into force.”

The article 50 negotiation is not the final deal—the final deal is the future trading agreement between the UK and the EU—so can the Secretary of State confirm that Parliament will get a vote on both the article 50 agreement and, as the Prime Minister said, the final deal? What will happen if Parliament says no to the terms of either of those agreements?

[Mr Davis]

The answer to the right hon. Gentleman’s overall question is yes—we are standing by both those votes and we will continue to do so. But I reiterate again that the point is that they will not be the only votes; there will be a large number of other votes in between. Labour Members can ignore it till the cows come home, but the simple truth is that they are going to have many, many, many votes on many different policy areas after extensive debate on primary legislation. So the answer is that Parliament will have a great influence on this process, and it will have the final say. That is democracy in action.

New Partnership with the EU

Debate between David Davis and Pat McFadden

Tuesday 17th January 2017 Commons Chamber

[Mr Davis]

I almost reiterate the answer I gave to the previous question, which is that I am from Yorkshire, and we are known to be just like the Scots but a lot less generous.

[Mr Pat McFadden (Wolverhampton South East) (Lab)]

Today’s speech is a result of what we get when immigration policy is allowed to dictate economic policy rather than considering these crucial questions of immigration and economics together. The Prime Minister set out a plan to leave the European Union but did not set out a plan to keep anything like the current access to our biggest single market for jobs, businesses and trade. During the referendum campaign she said that pulling out of the single market would mean a loss of investors and going backwards on international trade. So what economic assessment did the Government make of the impact of today’s speech on jobs, trade and prosperity— or was the speech made without any such assessment at all?

[Mr Davis]

First, the outcome of the referendum last year was not principally about immigration, although a very large part of it was; it was principally about control of our country. If we talk to the people who voted, they would say that that is what they were concerned about, and that is what this is about. Since I was party to the writing of this speech, I can tell the right hon. Gentleman that we had the economic future of the country, the security of the country, the sovereignty of the country and our part in the world all squarely in our sights when we wrote it.

The Government's Plan for Brexit

Debate between David Davis and Pat McFadden

Wednesday 7th December 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mr Pat McFadden (Wolverhampton South East) (Lab)]

The Secretary of State has just read out a list of reasons not to disclose the Government’s plan and negotiating objectives, but the right hon. and learned Member for Rushcliffe (Mr Clarke) called—rightly in my view—for a White Paper on the Government’s intentions. If the Secretary of State does not agree with him, will he at least agree with himself, because he called for the same thing before he was appointed to the job? Why was a White Paper the right thing to do in July, but not now?

[Mr Davis]

I really ought to make the people who raise this point, which has been made about five times in this House, read out what I actually said, which was that this is one negotiating option among several. The right hon. Gentleman says that I have just been giving reasons for not outlining negotiating objectives, but that is not true—I will come back to why in a minute. There is a reason not to lay out in detail some of the trade-offs and some of the options that we do have to keep to ourselves until we are in the negotiating chamber. I make this point more generally to the House. During the course of the Amsterdam treaty, we had difficult negotiations to carry out, and I kept the House up to date with every bit of that, but that was done at the right time—the appropriate time—and not when it undermined the national interest, which is the problem here.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between David Davis and Pat McFadden

Thursday 1st December 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mr Davis]

I understand my hon. Friend’s impatience after, as he says, 30 years of campaigning, but there have been 40 years of membership of the Union and it takes some time to decide on the best way of removing us from the Union in the way that people want. On the court case, it is not just a yes/no outcome in December/January. The actual nature of the Bill may be influenced by the outcome, but within that context, yes, we will carry on as rapidly as we possibly can.

[Mr Pat McFadden (Wolverhampton South East) (Lab)]

With reference to delivering Brexit in a timely manner, the Secretary of State will be aware that there is a two-year timescale once article 50 is triggered. Is it the Government’s policy that both the Brexit negotiations and the future trade arrangements should be agreed within that two-year period, or are they open to a transitional arrangement if that is not possible?

[Mr Davis]

The answer to the right hon. Gentleman’s question is yes. There are other questions on transitional arrangements that I will come to in detail later, as the Speaker will pull me up if I do not. The answer is yes; we want to see them both done in parallel inside the two years.

Article 50

Debate between David Davis and Pat McFadden

Monday 7th November 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mr Davis]

My right hon. Friend tempts me, but the proper route for the Government to pursue is to await the outcome of the court case and then act properly under the law.

[Mr Pat McFadden (Wolverhampton South East) (Lab)]

The basis of the judgment last week was that rights conferred by legislation cannot be taken away by royal prerogative. The Secretary of State said in the wake of that judgment that it was his understanding that therefore legislation would be needed to give effect to the judgment. Is that still his understanding, or does he think that the judgment can be given effect without legislation?

[Mr Davis]

As the judgment stands, that is my understanding. Basically, the right hon. Gentleman is right. What the court said, in effect, was, “You cannot remove rights without legislative power, and to give the Government legislative power, you have to have legislation”, but remember, we are now waiting on the Supreme Court outcome, which may be different.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between David Davis and Pat McFadden

Thursday 20th October 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mr Davis]

I congratulate the right hon. Gentleman on his new post. I am very pleased that he is the Chairman of the Brexit Committee, and look forward to a great deal of discussion with him on these subjects. He is quite right—we have to treat as absolutely central to what we do maintaining the stability of the City but also of the European financial markets, which have been a little fragile over the past few years. We will therefore do anything necessary. In the financial sector, as in other sectors, at the point of exit from the European Union, all the standards, conventions and regulations will be identical, so the transition should be capable of being managed very clinically. We will do everything necessary to maintain that stability.

[Mr Pat McFadden (Wolverhampton South East) (Lab)]

Can the Secretary of State confirm, in relation to press reports earlier this week, that the Government may in future pay the European Union, in some form or another, for access for financial services? Is it the Government’s position that under no circumstances will they in future pay for market access for financial services?

Parliamentary Scrutiny of Leaving the EU

Debate between David Davis and Pat McFadden

Wednesday 12th October 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mr Davis]

Broadly, the argument about full access and control of our borders is an argument that the Prime Minister has already made in the last few weeks, so I do not think I need to elaborate on it. However, let us understand something about this—sometimes, we seem to be arguing over which end of the egg we open first. The argument between us is where the dividing line is on what we tell Parliament about. The hon. and learned Member for Holborn and St Pancras recognised in terms, I think, that we could not give every detail to Parliament and that, despite his letter, we could not give a blow-by-blow account—that we could not have Parliament dictate how we dealt with the trade-offs, the terms and so on. [Interruption.] Despite the noise to his right, it is fairly plain that that is what the criterion is; that is where the problem is.

Let us be clear how this applies. If someone tells their opposite number in a negotiation exactly what their top priority is, that will make that top priority extremely expensive. Ordinary people, in their ordinary lives, probably do one big transaction themselves, and that is the purchase of a house. If someone went to buy a house, and they looked at only one house, told the owner that they were in love with that house and made a bid for it, I suspect the price would go up.

[Mr Pat McFadden (Wolverhampton South East) (Lab)]

Will the Secretary of State give way?

[Mr Davis]

In a moment—I have a lady over here who wants to make an intervention.

Similarly, if someone makes pre-emptive indications that they are willing to make a concession on something, they reduce the value of that concession. Therefore, in many, many ways, we cannot give details about how we will run the negotiation.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Davis]

That is why we made it plain at the beginning of this process that we would have the great repeal Bill, which will put into UK law—or domestic law, more accurately—what is currently the acquis communautaire. That is the start position. Then it comes down to the House to amend that under the guidance of the individual Departments. There may be, for example, a fisheries Bill; there may be some other legislation of that nature. That will have to be argued through at the time. It is pretty straightforward.

[Mr McFadden]

The Secretary of State said a moment ago that it would be a mistake for the Government to illustrate what its top priority in the negotiations was, but is it not the case that every speech at the Conservative party conference indicated that the top priority was the control and limitation of immigration from within the European Union?

[Mr Davis]

That, frankly, will be within our own control. If you leave the European Union, that gives you control over that issue. How you deal with the European Union, and trade with it, then comes on from there, so that is not an issue that actually meets that.

The simple demonstration of the point I am making is this: in Northern Ireland, where we have the really important issue of soft borders to resolve, both sides of the decision-making process—the Northern Ireland Executive and the Irish Government—have a similar interest. As a result, we can be very open about that issue, and we have indeed been very open about it; indeed, the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland was quoted in The Guardian on Monday in detail about what he is trying to achieve in terms of customs arrangements, cross-border arrangements and the common travel area. All of those things were very straightforwardly laid out in some detail. Why? Because that does not give away any of our negotiating cards, as this is between two people with the same aim. That is a much better example of how we have to be careful about what we say as we go into the negotiations.

Next Steps in Leaving the European Union

Debate between David Davis and Pat McFadden

Monday 10th October 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mr Davis]

It was my hon. Friend who got me into trouble the last time I made a statement, so I will not offer him a detailed answer. All forms of free trade are beneficial, whether based on mutual recognition, single legal areas or any other free trade mechanism. We will seek to get the best mechanism of free trade that we can, full stop.

[Mr Pat McFadden (Wolverhampton South East) (Lab)]

May I take the Secretary of State back to the article to which my right hon. Friend the Member for Doncaster North (Edward Miliband) referred? He promised

“a pre-negotiation White Paper”.

He also said:

“I would expect the new Prime Minister on September 9th to immediately trigger a large round of global trade deals with all our most favoured trade partners.”

Will he update the House and tell us whether the Government are still committed to the pre-negotiation White Paper that he promised, and the countries with which we have triggered trade deals since 9 September?

[Mr Davis]

If I may say so, that is a slight collapsing of what I said in that article, which I remember very well. The simple truth is that on the day we leave the European Union we will be looking to set up a whole series of very beneficial trade deals. That is an enormous benefit of being outside the Union.