Carer’s Leave Bill

Danny Kruger Excerpts

Friday 3rd February 2023 Commons Chamber

[Danny Kruger (Devizes) (Con)]

I congratulate the hon. Member for North East Fife (Wendy Chamberlain) on not only her luck in having her name drawn out of the hat, but the drafting and presentation of the Bill, which I am delighted to support.

More than 4 million people in this country are unpaid carers for loved ones, and most of them are women over the age of 50. They are very common to us all as constituency MPs. I can think of several people who have been in touch with me about not only the challenges they face in getting support, but the just challenges of what it means to be an unpaid carer. We can all do everything that we can as legislators to ensure that the support for them is better than it is and that the process, particularly for applying for help, is smoother, but the reality is that, as the hon. Lady said, they work all the hours there are. Ultimately, they are dependent on themselves, their friends and family and their support networks. I honour them for everything that they do. In a sense, they are the backbone of our country and our communities and the foundation of our national life. In the words of Queen, they “make the rockin’ world go round” and I honour them for that—[Interruption.] I did not quote the whole lyric. [Laughter.]

The Bill is welcome and I am pleased that the Government support it. Of course, we made a commitment in our manifesto and there were plans in 2019 to introduce a Bill along these lines. It is shame that it has taken this long to get here, but I am pleased that we are supporting it. The fact is that many employers extend these sorts of flexibilities to their staff anyway, because they are good people. I was struck by what the Minister said in response to the previous debate about the importance that employers such as him place on their reputation. Their primary reputation is based on what their staff—the people who work with them and know them best as employers—say about them. That reputation matters hugely, so it is no surprise that we all come across employers who do the right thing and are flexible with and sympathetic to their staff with caring responsibilities. As the Minister and the hon. Lady said, it helps the business to be a good employer in this way. It is not all about selfless action on the behalf of employers—even Yorkshire employers.

I am particularly struck by the provision, supported by the Government, for carer’s leave to be a day-one right. That is essential and reflects the fact that this is an important principle: it is something that is not earned through length of service but extended to an employee on day one. The value is not just for the employee but for the company, because it will help so much with recruitment in our very tight labour market. With all the social challenges that exist in our society, there are huge numbers of people who would like to work but for whom their caring responsibility comes first. For them to know that they will have the flexibility that the Bill gives them from day one is an enormous incentive for them to apply and take a job that is offered. It is, then, absolutely right for employers and the economy that we make this change.

That said, we obviously need to be careful. I look forward to seeing what the Government do in the drafting of the regulations that will bring this change into force. As I understand it, the regulations will determine how long the right to carer’s leave will be. It will be at least a week, but it could be longer, and I could totally support that, because in many cases it will need to be much longer than that. It probably should not be 365 days a year, because we do have to worry about people who take the mickey.

That leads me to my next point, which is that we currently have significant problems in our labour force and labour market. Too many people are not getting into work, and although I very much hope that this Bill will help to address that challenge, we do need further reform to our welfare system. I am not satisfied by the rate of success that we get out of our welfare system. Sadly, for all the great work done by many jobcentres and many of the civil society organisations that support them, the success rate of transforming an unemployed person into an employed person nevertheless remains too slow. We have to make work pay, and the Government are rightly prioritising a number of reforms and changes that need to happen to enable that. We need a higher-wage economy in which work pays better than welfare. We need to strengthen the conditionality around certain benefits to ensure that people understand that benefits are dependent on them looking for work and taking work when it is offered. We also need greater flexibility in the arrangements that people have in their employment.

I will end with a general point, to which the Bill speaks very well. My concern about our whole economic model and the way in which we conceive of work is that we have a very individualistic attitude to what we are as a worker. We think that work and life are separate spheres and that when we are an employee—a worker—our private life has no bearing on our work. In a sense, we can understand that. People need to leave their home life behind when they come to work; we all have to do that in our jobs. We need to be a professional. However, it is not fair to say that people have these entirely separate spheres.

As the hon. Lady emphasised in her speech, people increasingly live a portfolio life. Life changes for all of us; things happen. It is right that the system recognises that, for all that we have to be a professional, for all that we should be seen as a responsible, accountable and autonomous individual, we have overlapping responsibilities in our lives of which the system should take note. Principally, that means that people need to understand the challenges that we have around time, and the obligations that may occasionally intrude on the time we can give to our employment.

I applaud the provision that the hon. Lady hopes will be in the regulations, which is to extend the rights to people who have responsibilities to their neighbours—obligations and relationships outside the home. I think that that is absolutely right. She mentioned the great benefit of covid. We should acknowledge that good things happened as a result of the lockdown, which was the way that neighbourhoods were strengthened and obligations to people who we might not have known well before suddenly became real. We need to recover and retain some of that spirit and neighbourliness, and the Bill might help with that.

Best of all is the support that the Bill gives to family life. We need to recognise families and the obligations that we have to our relations, our children, and our elderly dependants much more in the general system of regulation. I recognise that, through the benefit reform, which the Conservative-led Government over the past 10 years introduced, universal credit now properly recognises family obligations in the benefit system. The next stage is to recognise family obligations in the tax system, which, at the moment, remains much too individualistic and disregards the obligations that people have.

Almost every other comparable country—European and north American—recognises family obligations in the tax system. Uniquely, the UK does not. The result is that people with young children or with adult dependants are penalised through the tax system in a way that in other countries they are supported, and, fundamentally, that is what we need to change. I honour the hon. Lady’s Bill and very much look forward to supporting it.

Workers (Predictable Terms and Conditions) Bill

Danny Kruger Excerpts

2nd reading
Friday 3rd February 2023 Commons Chamber

[Danny Kruger (Devizes) (Con)]

I am delighted to support the Bill, and I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Blackpool South (Scott Benton) on presenting it and on his speech. I am pleased that the Government are giving the Bill their backing. Of course, it was a Conservative-led Government who banned exclusivity clauses in 2015, which was an important step towards the system of worker protection that is needed in the new economy that is unfolding. I am pleased to see that we are supporting this new measure, which will end the system of one-sided flexibility that prevails and ensure that workers can request a predictable pattern of work. It is right that we are doing that.

The Bill sits in the context of a broader question about the model of work we want in 2023. One part of the answer to that question is that we want a model of work that is not fixed or ossified, as work perhaps was in the industrial age. We cannot respond to the gig economy by insisting on restrictions and inflexibilities that are inappropriate to this age. Ultimately, we will end up destroying jobs if we insist on too much structure and predictability, but neither can we chase the gig economy down the plughole of ever greater rights for employers at the expense of their staff. We cannot let employers dictate terms that include unacceptably low wages or unacceptable conditions.

One part of the answer, which is not within the scope of the Bill, is to ensure we have an immigration policy that ends the economic model of the last 20 years, in which we have imported foreign labour at the expense of British workers and at the expense of investment in our own people and in the innovation and technology that are needed if labour has its real value, which it does not if our rates of immigration are too high.

We also need to empower workers. My hon. Friend explained the problem very well. People are not robots that we can just switch on and off and leave dormant when we are not using them, waiting for us to switch them on again. We have to respect the human dignity of staff. As I said in an earlier debate, we need to recognise that people are not just workers; they have obligations and relationships outside work that we need to respect.

The question of what model of work we want is part of a broader question about what type of life we think people should have in this country. My simple answer is that we want people to have the conditions for a decent family and community life. An important measure to achieve that is ensuring we have a model of employment in which one adult can earn enough wages to support their family. We need jobs that support whole families, whether that is one full-time job or two, three or four part-time jobs. If someone has a partner, they need to be able to share the workload, to earn enough money to support the family, enabling them to have time for children or dependent adults and, importantly, to spend time supporting their community.

This introduction of a right to request a predictable pattern of work is good, and I applaud it. I like the fact that we are imposing a duty on employers in terms of what they should do when a request for a predictable pattern of work is made. I prefer duties to rights—the language is better, and the implication is better. We need to beware the wrong enforcement of duties that we create, but in principle, duties are better than rights because they imply relationships and obligations. The alternative—a world in which society is regulated only by individual rights—is one of eternal competition, a constant contest between individuals each claiming their due and eternal legal battles over who has broken which contract and which law.

We need a better culture than that, in which we recognise that we live under our obligations, not our entitlements, and our responsibilities matter more than our rights. That starts with people who have power in society—people with the power to hire and fire. We are insisting today on the fulfilment of employers’ duty to enable their staff to create the conditions for a decent family and community life. That is a good use of the power of the state, and I am delighted to support the Bill.

Employment Relations (Flexible Working) Bill

Danny Kruger Excerpts

Friday 28th October 2022 Commons Chamber

[Danny Kruger (Devizes) (Con)]

I am pleased to be able to speak on this important Bill, and my congratulations and appreciation go to the hon. Member for Bolton South East (Yasmin Qureshi) for bringing it to the House. I am also delighted to see my hon. Friend the Member for Thirsk and Malton (Kevin Hollinrake) on the Front Bench where he properly belongs. He will be able to see the Bill through the House and to honour our manifesto commitment, which said that we wanted to make flexible working the default option for employment. I am very much in support of that principle for the reasons that have been so well set out by colleagues across the House. My thoughts are with those who have caring responsibilities who need the additional flexibility that the Bill will bring them in order to stay in the workforce and continue to contribute to our economy, but also to put their families first, as we all do. I refer in particular to those with disabled members of their family, children at home and older people.

The Bill will also be helpful to those who have other responsibilities or interests that they want to discharge alongside their employment. One of the great needs of our society at the moment is for people to contribute in their communities at home, as so many would like to do and, indeed, as so many were able to do—if in a slightly strange way—during the pandemic when they stepped up to play a role in their neighbourhoods. For all the intense stresses and distresses of that era we did see something of the society that we would like to have in future where people are living and working closer to home, playing an active role in their community and being good neighbours to each other.

The new economy that is emerging is one in which we care less about balancing work and life as if those two things have completely different spheres and operate in different universes from one in which work and life are more blurred, where we could have a more local, more sustainable life in which our economic and our community activities are interlaced, which is a very good thing. I revere my right hon. Friend the Member for North East Somerset (Mr Rees-Mogg), the former Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy, but I do not share his fetish for office working at all costs. There is a great role for working from home, and it is really about negotiation between employers and employees about how to get that balance right.

The only aspect of the Bill that concerns me slightly—and I shall be interested to hear the Minister’s view on why we are supporting it—is the withdrawal of the obligation on the employee to explain to the employer what the effect of flexible working would be for the company. I wonder about that, because a successful employer-employee relationship is one of common interest. I think it appropriate to ask an employee who is seeking a homeworking or flexible-working arrangement what effect that might have on the company or other organisation and on that person’s colleagues, and I think that that was a good principle. I support the Bill and I recognise that it might be appropriate to withdraw that obligation, but I think—and my hon. Friend the Member for Bury North (James Daly) made this point very well—that we need to consider what burdens we impose on businesses when we extend workers’ rights, and should always seek not to create an adversarial relationship between employers and employees, who ultimately share common interests.

That aside, I am happy to support the Bill, and look forward to hearing from the Minister later.

Oral Answers to Questions

Danny Kruger Excerpts

Tuesday 25th October 2022 Commons Chamber

The Secretary of State was asked—

[Danny Kruger (Devizes) (Con)]

1. What steps he is taking to reduce red tape for small and medium-sized businesses.

[The Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (Mr Jacob Rees-Mogg)]

His Majesty’s Government are committed to supporting small and medium-sized enterprises through exemption of new regulations where possible. This exemption was recently extended to businesses with up to 500 employees, potentially reducing red tape and bureaucracy for up to 40,000 more businesses. That means thousands of businesses will not have to comply with forthcoming regulations and, most excitingly of all, it will extricate them from hundreds of EU regulations during the process of review and repeal.

[Danny Kruger]

I thank my right hon. Friend for the support he has given to small businesses across the country in recent weeks. As a west countryman, he will know Wadworth Brewery based in Devizes, an important local employer with more than 150 pubs and probably 1,500 people employed in the brewery and the pubs. I am afraid to say that many of the pubs are in severe financial difficulties, with many saying that things are worse than covid. Does he agree that the very welcome energy relief scheme should be extended and that the Government should give consideration to reviewing business rates and the value added tax regime?

Energy Update

Danny Kruger Excerpts

Monday 5th September 2022 Commons Chamber

[Greg Hands]

As ever, the hon. Lady raises an important and telling point. It is worth reminding ourselves, as I said earlier, that businesses tend to have long-term contracts for their energy bills. Prices were lower but they are now rising. There is an advantage in being locked into lower prices for a longer term, but there is, of course, a disadvantage when that long-term contract rolls off and they have to replace it. She is quite right about that. I am happy to look into the specifics of the bar that she mentions. There is no obligation currently on energy suppliers to supply businesses, unlike their obligation to provide to consumers, but I am happy to look into the specifics of the bar that she mentions in her constituency.

[Danny Kruger (Devizes) (Con)]

There is clearly consensus across the House about the need to decouple the price of electricity from the cost of gas. I very much welcome the Minister’s remarks that that is being actively looked at in government. May I encourage him to go a little further, given that we are in this little moment of an interregnum, exploit his licence and tell us what might be the obstacles to doing that quickly and, if we wanted to do it, how fast it could be done?

[Greg Hands]

My hon. Friend invites me to go down a road of policy speculation. What I will say is that many markets and many countries are looking at this specific issue. There are various proposals out there. We are looking carefully at this issue domestically, and we are also looking to see what other countries, other markets and other jurisdictions are doing in this space.

Supporting Small Business

Danny Kruger Excerpts

Tuesday 19th October 2021 Commons Chamber

[Danny Kruger (Devizes) (Con)]

I am pleased that the Opposition have chosen to debate this vital topic, as it is obvious that there are real problems facing our high streets and real challenges facing our businesses across the country. These familiar problems have been greatly exacerbated by the lockdowns over the past year and a half and by competition from online sales, which was the dominant challenge before covid, and by the changes in the way we live, work, shop and socialise.

These changes are also a potential salvation for some of our places and towns. The shadow Chancellor talked about the need for fresh ideas, and she is absolutely right. There have been real innovations in the way our towns look and in the way our businesses work. New technology is making viable again places that were left behind by economic changes over hundreds of years.

The market town of Devizes is the jewel of Wiltshire and the gateway to the south-west, and one of medieval England’s premier places, but it has not been the same since about 1830 because of industrialisation and the flow of labour to the towns and economic centres. Devizes is becoming an economic hub and a viable financial centre once again, largely because of the internet. Largely thanks to digital, we also see an opportunity to prosper for places left behind by deindustrialisation over the past few generations.

I am sorry that the hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull West and Hessle (Emma Hardy) is no longer here, because she made a tremendous speech. She sounded like one of us, talking about the glory of her place and the opportunity that has been created for young people in Hull in recent years, not just because of the wonderful place it is but because of the opportunities of connectivity from new investment in broadband and transport. That is what we need to think about when we think about places. I believe, as I think she does—and as I hope we all believe on the Conservative Benches—that people should not have to leave the place they love to have the life they want, but that does not mean there should not be opportunities to come and go and for information, ideas, goods and services to travel.

Connectivity is vital for our places, so I applaud what the Government are doing to increase access to broadband and particularly to increase access to rural transport. I hope Devizes will benefit from one of the new stations under the restoring your railway fund.

We also need more support to adapt, and I welcome everything the Government are doing, particularly through the Help to Grow scheme, the start-up loans scheme and the super deduction on capital investment, which are tremendous initiatives. The more than £3.5 billion of structural help being provided through the towns fund will spruce up 100 places with tens of millions of pounds of funding.

The community ownership fund to which we committed in the manifesto is now being introduced, and it will support what the hon. Lady talked about: pride of place and allowing communities to take ownership and support local businesses.

[Dr Luke Evans (Bosworth) (Con)]

It is great to hear my hon. Friend champion the idea of community, and he hits the nail on the head. For our high streets it is about creating a community of the future to which people come not only to shop and to do business but to socialise. That is how to make sure our high streets, like mine in Hinckley, are fit for the future.

[Danny Kruger]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. Of course we want a more diverse and plural high street; it does not need to be all retail. Residential should be part of the high street of the future, too, bringing footfall. He is right to highlight these institutions of belonging, civil society and places of gathering that enable people to come together and work together.

I applaud everything that is being done on spending, but I will say a word on tax. Of course business rates need reform, and there have been many helpful observations and contributions on that this evening. It is right that the Government have effected a reduction in business rates in recent years by raising the employment allowance, which is a significant tax cut for small businesses that I applaud, and it is right that we are reviewing the whole business rates system. I recognise the force of the argument for a digital sales tax and a global corporation tax, which are the right things to explore in the context of the new world of online retail, but I sound a note of caution and echo the point made by the Institute for Fiscal Studies that there is a point at which reducing business rates can actually be harmful. For finite resources such as land or space on the high street, reduced business rates can simply lead to rent increases, as we have seen. So we need to think about a reform that will not simply lead to benefits to landlords, with these not feeding into benefits for those businesses and with increasing inequality, without benefiting the Exchequer. That is not to mention the obvious need to compensate for this reduction in or abolition of business rates, as proposed by the Labour party, which has not yet explained how it would plug that enormous fiscal hole.

[Paul Howell (Sedgefield) (Con)]

Does my hon. Friend agree that there is the potential for a three-level look at this, as we have the high street, out-of-town shopping and online businesses? There are three different categories. My constituency has out-of-town shopping centres that are doing very well, thank you, but the high streets are in a very difficult place. To go back to his earlier point, may I remind him that the hope that railway stations—whether Devizes or Ferryhill—can give to local communities in developing—

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

Order. The hon. Gentleman has only just arrived and making a long intervention, having only just got here, is just taking up the time of others.

[Danny Kruger]

I thank my hon. Friend for the intervention and he is absolutely right in what he says. Of course, the challenge is to get a flexible system that recognises the diversity of our business system, which is why an overall review of business rates is better than some blanket abolition.