Advanced Research and Invention Agency Bill (Third sitting)

Daniel Zeichner Excerpts

Tuesday 20th April 2021 Public Bill Committees

[The Chair]

We are now sitting in public and the proceedings are being broadcast. Before we begin, I have a few preliminary announcements. Members will understand the need to respect social distancing guidance. In line with the Commission’s decisions, face coverings should be worn in Committee unless Members are speaking or medically exempt. Hansard colleagues would be grateful if Members could email their speaking notes to [e-mail]. Please switch electronic devices to silent; teas and coffees are not allowed during sittings.

We now begin line-by-line consideration of the Bill. The selection list for today’s sitting is available in the room and shows how the selected amendments have been grouped together for debate. Amendments grouped together are generally on the same or similar issues. Please note that decisions on amendments do not take place in the order in which they are debated but in the order that they appear on the amendment paper. The selection list shows the order of debates. Decisions on each amendment are taken when we come to the clause to which the amendment relates. A Member who has put their name to the leading amendment in a group is called first; other Members are then free to catch my eye to speak to all or any of the amendments within that group. A Member may speak more than once in a single debate.

At the end of the debate on a group of amendments, or new clauses and schedules, I shall again call the Member who moved the leading amendment or new clause. Before they sit down, they will need to indicate whether they wish to withdraw the amendment or new clause, or seek a decision. If any Member wishes to press to a vote any other amendment in a group, including grouped new clauses and schedules, they need to let me know. I shall use my discretion to decide whether to allow a separate stand part debate on individual clauses and schedules following the debate on the relevant amendments.

Clause 1

Establishment of ARIA

[Daniel Zeichner (Cambridge) (Lab)]

I beg to move amendment 2, in clause 1, page 1, line 3, leave out

“Advanced Research and Invention Agency”

and insert

“Advanced Research and Engineering Projects Agency”.

This amendment would modify the name of the Advanced Research and Invention Agency to the Advanced Research and Engineering Projects Agency.

[The Chair]

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

Amendment 3, in clause 1, page 1, line 5, leave out “ARIA” and insert “AREPA”.

This amendment would reflect a modification to the name of the Advanced Research and Invention Agency to the Advanced Research and Engineering Projects Agency.

Amendment 4, in clause 1, page 1, line 6, leave out “ARIA” and insert “AREPA”.

This amendment would reflect a modification to the name of the Advanced Research and Invention Agency to the Advanced Research and Engineering Projects Agency.

Amendment 26, in clause 15, page 5, line 35, leave out

“Advanced Research and Invention Agency”

and insert

“Advanced Research and Engineering Projects Agency”.

This amendment will modify the ARIA short title.

Amendment 1, title, line 1, leave out

“Advanced Research and Invention Agency”

and insert

“Advanced Research and Engineering Projects Agency”.

This amendment would modify the long title of the Bill to reflect a change to the name of the Advanced Research and Invention Agency to the Advanced Research and Engineering Projects Agency.

[Daniel Zeichner]

It is a pleasure to serve with you in the Chair, Ms McVey. I look forward to a fascinating discussion about a very important set of issues. Let me start by apologising on behalf of the shadow Minister, my hon. Friend the Member for Newcastle upon Tyne Central, who is delayed this morning but will be joining us in an hour or so. I have the pleasure of opening this morning’s sitting. I thank those who set up last week’s evidence sessions. I have sat on a number of Bill Committees in my short time in Parliament, and I have to say that I think it was the most informative evidence session that I have come across. I hope we all learned something from it—I certainly did.

The evidence session led directly to the first set of amendments. David Cleevely suggested this idea, in fact, and I remind the Committee of what he said in his observations:

“All the examples given of contributions that make a difference have all been, it strikes me, about engineering, so I suggest that we rename this the ‘Advanced Research and Engineering Agency’. To be honest, ‘invention’ strikes me a bit like something in the 1950s, with somebody emerging from a shed with a gadget that has just blown their hair off”—

a bit like my hair this morning. He continued:

“Peter Highnam pointed out ‘projects’, so we might actually consider it to be the ‘Advanced Research and Engineering Projects Agency’.”––[Official Report, Advanced Research and Invention Agency Public Bill Committee, 14 April 2021; c. 74, Q76.]

That is a really important point. I suspect that much of the discussion today and in successive sittings will really be about the finer points of setting up an organisation, and will be relatively dry. Amendment 2 goes to the heart of what the agency is actually about and its whole purpose.

I very much hope that we will get wide engagement from all members of the Committee. I know that Government Whips are sometimes inclined to suggest that Government Members should hold their fire, but we have lots of expertise here today, and I think we are all trying to get the best outcome, so I hope people will feel that they can contribute.

One thing that struck me about the evidence session was just how many witnesses highlighted the need for greater clarity about the purpose of the agency. Professor Wilsdon put it very well when he said:

“I think that trying to bring more clarity, or at least a sense of how this issue will be addressed through the governance of this new thing, is really important.”

He warned:

“Otherwise, you or your successors, and we or our successors, will be back here in a few years’ time, asking ourselves why it did not work.”––[Official Report, Advanced Research and Invention Agency Public Bill Committee, 14 April 2021; c. 23, Q19.]

Commentary and observations from the outside world say the same thing. The Government may have a view, and I hope the Minister will take the opportunity to clarify it. Our concern is that the Bill lacks clarity.

I found the evidence session very helpful, particularly because I started with a bit of prejudice: I thought I would struggle with anything that had been promoted by Dominic Cummings. I am not a grudgey sort of person—I do not bear a grudge. Actually, I do bear more than 65 million grudges on behalf of every man, woman and child in the country who was outraged by his behaviour this time last year, without going into what happened before that. It was disappointing that he did not choose to make himself available for our evidence session, because this is clearly a project associated with and driven by him. Perhaps that was for the best, though, because it makes it less about him and more about the future of research and development in our country.

The proposed name change came out of the evidence that he gave to the Select Committee on Science and Technology, which I watched. As one often does late in the evening, I was scrolling through the TV channels and suddenly I found hon. Members interviewing Dominic Cummings on the TV. Usually, I would move on to the football, but there was something extraordinarily engaging about that hour-long session. It seemed meandering and self-indulgent, and it revealed his loathing and hatred for everything in the world, particularly bureaucracy: whether it be Brussels bureaucracy, the blob or the way in which research and development work in this country, everything is designed to stop the process of invention emerging.

We all want it to be easier to do things. None of us wants bureaucracy, but most of us understand why it is there—there is a reason for it. Of course, we have to fight against it, but particularly in the last week or two it has become strikingly obvious why we need it: to make sure we do not leave ourselves open to cronyism and the abuse of public money. Over the years, all politicians have felt just how frustrating democracy can sometimes be. Would it not be so much better if just a few of us—a few blokes, probably—could just get together with Dominic and run the country? Would that not be so much better? We have seen examples of that through history and in other places. Without going back to cliches, there is a reason why we stick with democracy: it is better than all the other difficult systems.

I was struck by Mr Cummings’s constant invocation of the way things have been discovered in the past. He has talked frequently of the Laboratory of Molecular Biology in Cambridge, which is very dear to me. For those who come to Cambridge on the train from London, although there are many striking buildings outside Cambridge, it is particularly iconic building. It is not just a building, though; hugely important work goes on in it. Scientists from across the world, particularly Europe, are doing fantastic work. They have won a disproportionate number of Nobel prizes over the years.

Mr Cummings’s view was to hark back to the starting point, when there were some fantastic breakthroughs in a shed on the site of the old Addenbrooke’s Hospital. He almost seemed to think that they needed to be in the shed to get the breakthroughs. He was harking back to a very different world—perhaps the world that he wants us to be, back in the 1950s. That is not the world we are in now. That is the crunch with the name change.

What is in a name? In this case, a great deal. The word “invention” in the current title is useful to create a cheery acronym—I will come back to that—but actually it points to completely the wrong approach. As David said, it is bit like something from the 1950s, when someone emerges from a shed with a gadget that has blown their hair off. It is a sepia-tinged view of innovation: “The great breakthroughs were achieved against the odds, largely by blokes in sheds.” Well, perhaps they were, but that was then and this is now, and all the other witnesses painted a very different picture of how innovation happens.

Tabitha Goldstaub was particularly clear. She told us:

“I worry also about the lone genius model. We are well beyond individual success being seen like that. This is all about community. One of the things I have heard time and again is that people do not want to be funded as individuals but as groups of people. It is a community that would come together around a programme manager that is really important.”––[Official Report, Advanced Research and Invention Agency Public Bill Committee, 14 April 2021; c. 54, Q52.]

That was the real force of the evidence from those who know best—those who have been doing this in America. The session with the people from the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency was particularly powerful. DARPA does not have invention in its title and there is a good reason for that: it is not what it does.

Dr Highnam was particularly clear:

“DARPA: defence and national security. Clear mission; clear scope in which to work. Of the ARPA-like entities around that I am aware of, the only one that very closely follows the DARPA model would be the Intelligence Advanced Research Projects Activity in the US intelligence community. When you change what I would regard as the key elements—ephemeral or temporary people, project based, and no fixed assets—that have made DARPA nimble and forward leaning for 63 years now, you get something else.”––[Official Report, Advanced Research and Invention Agency Public Bill Committee, 14 April 2021; c. 43, Q37.]

Note that he said “project based”—it is about projects, which is why that is in our amendment. It is a much more accurate description of what the agency should be about.

Dr Highnam said more, and this is probably more significant:

“The p in DARPA stands for ‘projects’, which is critical for a place like DARPA. We are not doing technology area x or y just because, and we do not do it for the long term. We have projects that are well defined at the beginning. A case has to be made. They are monitored, they have metrics and all manner of independent evaluation associated with them before we go out to find the best teams we can to participate and to be funded to work on that research. Then that project ends.”––[Official Report, Advanced Research and Invention Agency Public Bill Committee, 14 April 2021; c. 40, Q34.]

He could not have been clearer—that is what makes it work.

If we contrast that clarity with the Bill, we see that the evidence sessions clearly revealed the muddle in Government thinking, as a succession of witnesses tried to get their heads around what this agency is for. It is certainly not clear in the Bill. As it stands, without amendment 2 the muddle over what the agency does remains unresolved, which inevitably means a muddle over money and resources, because while managing projects does not necessarily require a big spend, invention is quite another matter. The name change links to that vexed question of whether it is new money.

When Dame Ottoline Leyser of UK Research and Innovation—she is a constituent of mine—was asked what she would do with an extra £800 million if she had it to spend, her reply was skilful in the extreme. It was tactful, but it was a laugh-out-loud moment, because it was quite clear that this is not what she would choose to spend it on. Professor McDonald made a similar point, as did a succession of other witnesses. All of them were absolutely clear that it has to be new.

We in the Opposition certainly want new. Our aspiration is to go beyond 2.4%—we want 3%. We are happy to support new money, but I suspect that if it were a Labour proposal, the first question would be, “Where is the money coming from?” Perhaps the Minister can tell us that, because I do not think we have any clues. We welcome it, none the less.

In reality, despite the creative attempts at amendments from us and from the Scottish National party, we know that future money cannot be guaranteed. That is why the purpose of the agency is so important and why the “Projects” element matters so much.

The amendment also seeks to add “Engineering”, partly as that was suggested by David Cleevely in his witness statement. As he rightly pointed out, many of the examples are engineering examples. I have to say “partly” because the shadow Minister, my hon. Friend the Member for Newcastle upon Tyne Central, is a chartered engineer. Perhaps that is not actually so significant. If we took out “Engineering”, our amendment would result in the name being ARPA—the Advanced Research and Projects Agency—which is a straight copy. We are seeking to emulate largely what ARPA has achieved, which I am not sure is such a bad thing.

I have to say that on Second Reading I had a slightly tetchy exchange with the Secretary of State about whether the proposed agency was modelled or based on whatever. It is clearly learning from experiences. We have some other not dissimilar examples: we have the small business research initiative, which is the SBRI. I have spent many years trying to promote and support it, and it is based on the American model, the SBIR—small business innovation research—so we have some examples of borrowing from the Americans and switching the letters round. Given the number of different American ARPAs, we could end up with ARPA UK, or it could be ARPA GB or ARPA England—it depends how the world goes in the years ahead—but, frankly, we are not precious about it. However, the shift from “Projects” to “Invention” really does matter, so if the Government chose to make that change, or whether it was an accident, I would like the Minister to explain why and what the Government think is significant about the word “Invention” in the title of the agency.

Dr Highnam of DARPA said that if one does not do it in the way that he described, one gets something else. It is therefore only reasonable to ask the Minister what it is that she wants to do differently. What is it that she wants the agency to be? If the agency is going to cost an initial £800 million, what makes her confident that it will work? We heard from a number of witnesses, including Felicity Burch, who talked about previous efforts to move our research system closer to the “edge of the edge”, as it has been described. I am thinking of the Technology Strategy Board and the industrial strategy challenge fund. Felicity Burch said in her evidence that setting the agency up on a statutory basis makes a difference, and I think it does, but only if it is done in the right way.

Let me conclude by returning just briefly to the operatic theme that I have encouraged throughout the debate so far. I have been through Puccini and Purcell, but to finish where I began with Dominic Cummings, could we annoy him a little bit more by suggesting that the song might be the “Ode to Joy”? It is not quite an aria, more a collective chorale, but I think one of the projects we could turn to is to create more joy. In general, let us have clarity by making the purpose of the agency clear in its title. Let us recognise that it really is about projects, and do so by adopting the series of amendments under consideration. That would give the new agency a genuinely clear purpose, with the challenge framed by the Government. In our view, that has a much better chance of success, and as such is worth supporting with enthusiasm.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (Amanda Solloway)]

What a pleasure it is to be under your chairmanship, Ms McVey, and to listen to the hon. Member for Cambridge. He talked about a wide range of issues, most which I am sure will be addressed in further debate. In this instance, I will concentrate on amendment 2 and those grouped with it.

The creation of ARIA represents an exciting opportunity to add to our already excellent research and development funding landscape. That came out very strongly on Second Reading, and I hope that today’s debate and last week’s evidence sessions demonstrate the importance of the legislation. I would like to place on record my thanks to the Opposition parties for the constructive way in which they have approached the Bill thus far, and I look forward to discussing the amendments that they have tabled.

Amendment 2 and associated amendments would change the name of the agency to the advanced research and engineering projects agency, or AREPA. I must say that when the hon. Gentleman raised this option last Wednesday, I did not realise that it was a serious suggestion. As I am sure he can imagine, a certain amount of thought and discussion has gone into choosing the name of the agency, and I do prefer the musical reference to naming the agency after a flatbread.

On a serious note, I recognise how central engineering successes have been to the historic breakthroughs of ARPA and DARPA in the United States. I found the evidence of Sir Jim McDonald of the Royal Academy of Engineering and others hugely interesting. I share the hon. Gentleman’s concern that those contributions should not be overlooked. I very much hope that ARIA builds on the history of engineering excellence that we have right across the UK, and supports the next generation of transformational breakthroughs. The powers of the body are key. I assure the Committee that just as UK Research and Innovation is able to provide funding for engineering research through the Engineering and Physical Sciences Research Council, ARIA’s powers extend to conducting engineering projects in exactly the same way as projects in any other area of science. That important discipline has not been forgotten. Our ambitions can be achieved without renaming ARIA, and I cannot accept the amendment.

[Daniel Zeichner]

I am grateful to the Minister. I admit that there is a sense of gentle joshing in the name change. It is not the engineering issue that is important to us, but the invention issue. I listened closely to for an explanation from the Minister of why “invention” has been chosen, but did not hear one; I would be grateful if she intervened to explain. I outlined clearly why the projects element is so important. We heard a consistent view from witnesses throughout the evidence sessions, so I see no reason why the amendment should not be seriously considered.

Looking at the numbers around me, I do not expect to secure an overwhelming victory in a vote, but this amendment will go on for further discussion elsewhere. I hope that it will be thought about carefully, because it simply cannot be denied that, both in the evidence sessions and outside this place, there is concern about clarity of purpose. We all want the agency to succeed, and the amendment is a constructive suggestion. Personally, I would go for “ARPA”, to make it absolutely clear that we are trying to do what the Americans have achieved in the past. Neither the Minister nor anyone else has given me a sense of clarity about what are actually trying to achieve—to say, “That is what we need to achieve, and that is what is missing.” That is why I wish to divide the Committee on the amendment.

Question put, That the amendment be made.

--- Later in debate ---

[Amanda Solloway]

As a female Science Minister, I fully understand the sentiment behind the proposed amendment. I agree that it is important that ARIA and UKRI co-operate for ARIA to be a coherent addition to the UK R&D funding landscape.

I thought that Professor Dame Ottoline Leyser, the CEO of UKRI, really spoke eloquently on this point last week when she said:

“The kinds of relationship that one wants to have with key players across the system are not things for which you necessarily legislate. They are about maintaining open lines of communication and building high-quality personal relationships with different actors in the system.” [Official Report Advanced Research and Invention Agency Bill (First sitting), 14 April 2021, c. 15.]

I agree. It is important that we do not over-engineer ARIA’s governance arrangements and obligations in the Bill such that we risk binding the body and creating a bureaucratic process. I am concerned that the need for ARIA and UKRI to agree and annually review an MOU creates just such an administrative burden.

I also agree with Professor Dame Ottoline Leyser when she says that this happens organically. After all, it will be in ARIA’s interests to maintain a dialogue with UKRI to understand the work opportunities and key research opportunities in the UK R&D landscape. The framework document which will be agreed between BEIS and ARIA will set out the broad principles according to which ARIA must interact with other public R&D funders, which will, of course, include UKRI. For this reason I cannot accept the amendment, and I hope that the hon. Member for Brent Central will withdraw it.

[Daniel Zeichner]

I want to question the Minister on the difference between an MOU and the document that she has just referred to. It seems to me that we are not far apart on that. Could we not have an MOU?

[Amanda Solloway]

The framework document will be drawn up by the leadership of ARIA, and it is really important that that is how it will be devised. It will not be a Government-led document; it will be drawn up by the leadership and with ARIA.

--- Later in debate ---

It is important to say right from the outset that we want communication between UKRI and ARIA, so that ARIA will be a success. Otherwise, we are limiting the success of ARIA. We took evidence from Tabitha of CognitionX, who is the chair of the AI Council. I would love her to run ARIA; her evidence was so enlightening, and I would love somebody like that to run it. She also talked about the link to UKRI and other industries. I do not think there is any difference between us. The Minister described a memorandum of understanding. To be fair, we should just continue in the way we have done—constructively—and make the amendment.

[Daniel Zeichner]

I have learned something this morning. I too was a computer programmer. I hope my hon. Friend was a better programmer than I was—I worry about the code that I left for others.

On whether it is better to have it in the legislation, which is the point raised by the hon. Member for Broadland, does it strike my hon. Friend as odd, particularly at a time when the Government are under such scrutiny for relaxed arrangements involving texts, WhatsApp and all the rest of it? Is that not exactly the reason it should be put in legislation—so that it is clear for everybody?

[Dawn Butler]

My hon. Friend makes a very valid and powerful point. There are ongoing investigations—Greensill, PestFix and VIP lanes. Let us avoid such accusations by agreeing a memorandum of understanding between ARIA and UKRI. Let people not question the role of ARIA: we are expecting the public to accept failure as an essential part of ARIA, and they are going to accept failure. Let the public understand that there will be some link to UKRI, which is an established agency.

--- Later in debate ---

[Chi Onwurah]

The hon. Lady makes an interesting point and it raises two issues. First, how the CEO will be recruited and which rules for public appointment that process will follow is not clear in the Bill, so perhaps the Minister will provide that information. If the Secretary of State has to follow those rules, surely the amendment simply makes it clear what he—he in this case—has to do, and ensures focus on and recognition of the requirements. I do not feel that those two considerations are incompatible.

[Daniel Zeichner]

Does my hon. Friend agree that this is a fundamental issue. There is a real problem particularly around design, as Caroline Criado Perez identified in her book “Invisible Women: Exposing data bias in a world designed for men”—some of us attended the book launch here a couple of years ago. Extraordinarily, she pointed out that a swathe of design was done without women in mind at all, so crash tests and so on do not work because they are tested on the wrong people. That reflects the danger of having a board without a wide range of people. I read somewhere the other day that the armed forces in some country had only just discovered that women require different underwear from men. There is a blinds pot here, and it goes back to blokes in sheds I am afraid.

[Chi Onwurah]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend, and I agree wholeheartedly. The fact that most technology and science has been designed and developed by a narrow demographic minority has great implications for our society. Sometimes I lie awake at night thinking of the wonderful inventions and technologies that we might have in the world had women and minorities been able to play a full part in our scientific development. My hon. Friend gave the example of how, as Caroline Criado Perez said in her book, so much of our world has not reflected the needs or interests of women, which is really important. I say to the Minister: the agency, which we will come back to a number of times, will fail. It is designed to fail. When it fails—not in general, but particularly—it needs to have the support of the public to understand the reason why it failed. To lock women out of the board, which is what it will effectively do, and not reflect the importance of diversity, will be a factor in public trust.

--- Later in debate ---

[Amanda Solloway]

Amendment 10 would require the Secretary of State to seek the consent of the Science and Technology Committee before appointing ARIA’s first CEO. Amendments 31 to 34 would require the proposed chair and CEO of ARIA to be approved by both Houses through secondary legislation.

These amendments reflect the welcome interest across Parliament in ARIA and the recognition that the agency’s success is dependent on the right leadership, as has been mentioned. In regard to the amendments, there is no equivalent precedent, such as in the case of UK Research and Innovation. As such, we will soon launch a robust recruitment process and have designed it such that only the very best candidates will be appointed as ARIA’s first CEO and chair. An experienced and expert panel will be responsible for sifting and interviewing candidates. It will feature the Government’s chief scientific adviser Sir Patrick Vallance and Jo Shanmugalingam, who is director general for science, innovation and growth at the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy. They will be accompanied by two highly esteemed panellists from the international R&D community, whose names will be announced in due course. The final appointments will be made by the Secretary of State, who will continue to have responsibility for appointing non-executives, including future chairs.

The chair, in consultation with other non-executive members, will appoint future executives, including CEOs. Last week, Philip Bond told us that

“if you want to define the ARPA model at some level, it is this: it is a different model of trust.” ––[Official Report, Advanced Research and Invention Agency Public Bill Committee, 14 April 2021; c. 25, Q20]

We trust the chair to make, in consultation with other non-executive members, appointments to the executive board. Placing additional limitations on that would, therefore, be contrary to the important principle of ARIA’s operation. Of course, the Select Committee will be able to call on ARIA’s leadership, to take evidence and understand their vision for the role. That point was made by the Secretary of State when he appeared before the Committee on 17 March. I therefore think that the process is open, fair and robust. It is completely sufficient for finding the right people.

[Daniel Zeichner]

Surely there is a fundamental point here about the relationship between Government and Parliament, and exactly the same point could be made about every single kind of appointment. This is a power grab by Government. The Science and Technology Committee would behave perfectly properly in making any kind of assessment. Why are the Government attacking Parliament in this way?

[Amanda Solloway]

As I previously explained, there is no precedent in the system. We will be recruiting in the same way as we do for UKRI, and it does not go into legislation. I am very confident that we will have a full and robust process for appointing the chief executive. I therefore think that this is an open, fair and robust process. It is completely sufficient for finding the right people to be the chair and chief exec of ARIA and to make it a success. As such, I hope that the amendment will be withdrawn.