Strength of the UK’s Armed Forces

Dan Jarvis Excerpts

Wednesday 14th April 2021 Commons Chamber

[Dan Jarvis (Barnsley Central) (Lab) [V]]

Our withdrawal from the EU, the rise of China and the threat posed by Russia has meant that the strategic context in which our armed forces operate has shifted hugely in the decade since I left. The professionalism, resilience and adaptability of those who still serve has not. The Defence Command Paper rightly describes our servicemen and women as “our finest asset”. It is therefore incongruous for the Government to be stripping back the British Army to a level not seen for 300 years.

While the number of service personnel is set to reduce, it appears that what they are expected to achieve will not. The integrated review does not suggest that we will draw down on any of our commitments. The UK will remain the leading European partner in NATO and maintain our responsibilities in the middle east and Africa, while at the same time expanding our role in the Indo-Pacific. In my experience, trying to do more with less rarely works. When the Prime Minister pledged to maintain the size of our armed forces, he was right to do so. We are now being told that size no longer matters because the threat has changed, but as I put to the Secretary of State last month, if the threat has changed so much, so quickly, what is to say that it will not change again? In response, I was told that any future proposals to increase manning would be supported, but of course, it is not that simple.

Retaining talent is far easier and more inexpensive than recruiting it—a principle that is especially true when applied to our service personnel. We would do well to remember that technology evolves; the one thing that remains constant is people. We should also remember that our people are among the very best in the world. They are our ultimate insurance policy. Recent history is littered with examples, from Vietnam to Afghanistan, when technological superiority did not bring about success. Kit and equipment will never be an adequate substitute for strategy and leadership.

To conclude, following the collapse of the Soviet Union, leaders and experts predicted a new period of global peace and prosperity that never materialised. Thirty years on, the world is now more complex, more dangerous and more unpredictable. No one can say with any confidence what it will look like in another 30 years. We live in uncertain times. There are no easy answers, only difficult questions, but now more than ever, Britain must aspire to show leadership. Cutting the one thing that, above all else, gives us our edge—our people—will be to the detriment of our national security and our standing in the world. This decision is short-sighted—

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

Order. We have to leave it there; I am sorry, Dan. We will now return to Marie Rimmer.

Integrated Review: Defence Command Paper

Dan Jarvis Excerpts

Monday 22nd March 2021 Commons Chamber

[Dan Jarvis (Barnsley Central) (Lab) [V]]

The Defence Secretary has justified the decision to cut troop numbers because of evolving threats, but there is a hole in that logic. If the threat has changed so much, so quickly, what is there to say it will not change again? Given the uncertainty, it seems unwise to cut the one thing that, above all else, gives us our edge: our people. I ask the Secretary of State to think again.

[Mr Wallace]

I know that the hon. Gentleman comes with good experience of the armed forces, and he will also know the real balance that I have to strike, both as a leader and now in this job as Secretary State for Defence. Yes, people are our most important asset, but protecting them is our most important duty, and we have to get that balance right. It is no good being over-ambitious in deploying them if we cannot support them. Yes, the threat can change—absolutely it can change. In 2035, I will not be in this job, but the person who is should be able to come to this House and increase the size of the armed forces, should that be required. They should be free to make that decision, and I would certainly support anyone who did that, if they demonstrated what the threat was. Threat goes up and threat evolves, and in the past we have been too slow to follow the threat because we have been following either more shallow arguments or promises that were never kept.

Oral Answers to Questions

Dan Jarvis Excerpts

Monday 15th March 2021 Commons Chamber

[Mr Wallace]

From the very beginning of the integrated review and defence reform process, we have engaged with the chiefs and many members of the armed forces across all services. We have been informed throughout that process by defence intelligence and other intelligence products, to ensure that our plans match the threat that we face, as well as the capabilities that we should give to the men and women of our armed forces.

[Dan Jarvis (Barnsley Central) (Lab)]

What recent discussions he has had with the Home Secretary on the immigration status of Commonwealth-born veterans.

[The Secretary of State for Defence (Mr Ben Wallace)]

We greatly value everyone who serves in our armed forces, wherever they come from, for their contribution to the security of our nation. Non-UK personnel can settle in the United Kingdom after four years’ service, and I am pleased to confirm that we are extending the time before discharge so that applicants can be submitted from 10 to 18 weeks before they leave. In addition, an imminent consultation is due, and I urge Members to contribute to that and to try to solve the current ongoing issues regarding Commonwealth veterans.

[Dan Jarvis]

Pay up or pack up: that is the shameful choice presented to our Commonwealth servicemen and women. I am aware of the strength of feeling that the Secretary of State has on this issue. Will he confirm when we will see the public consultation? Will the reforms promised apply to veterans and families, as well as to serving personnel?

[Mr Wallace]

First, may I place on record my apology to the hon. Gentleman for the delay in responding to his correspondence? That should not have happened and I apologise for it. The consultation is imminent, and we will schedule it in as soon as possible. Once it has been published, I will be happy to sit down with as many Members as possible to discuss their views on what we are proposing and on whether the measures should go further. We can take it from that point. I understand what the hon. Gentleman is saying. I am keen that whatever we do is fair for all veterans, whether Gurkhas, or serving UK national or Commonwealth personnel. We must ensure equity, but at the same time I understand the strength of feeling in the House. Those who contribute should be recognised.

Covid-19 Response: Defence Support

Dan Jarvis Excerpts

Tuesday 12th January 2021 Commons Chamber

[Mr Wallace]

As I have said right from the beginning, we are involved with the vaccine taskforce, making sure that we are on the frontline so that we can jump in and fill any gaps that emerge. We have set up a quick reaction force. Up to 250 people, and more if required, will be able to go out and take vaccines to people if that stock needs to be delivered. That could deliver a significant uplift in the numbers of people being injected. At the same time, we have people embedded in the regional vaccine offices of the NHS, where the NHS is planning how it will deliver the vaccine in the regions and, indeed, in Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales, to make sure that, wherever there is a gap, the MOD will try to fill it.

[Dan Jarvis (Barnsley Central) (Lab) [V]]

Like so many, I am extremely proud to see our dedicated servicemen and women supporting the national effort to overcome the public health crisis. The overwhelming majority of Britons now see disease prevention as an issue of national security, so will the Secretary of State tell us how coronavirus is shaping the forthcoming integrated review?

[Mr Wallace]

From a defence point of view—indeed, I know this from my own background as the Minister for Security—resilience was key to the integrated review. I felt it was important that the integrated view should be used to enhance the use of reserves. Reserves will be part of the long-term future of this nation’s resilience—whether they are civilian reserves in an NHS environment or, indeed, from the armed forces, they are going to be very important. We need to look at how we employ our people to make sure that there is a flow between regulars and reserves and that they are used in a much better way.

In addition to that, we have seen the threat of silent or sub-threshold enemies—disinformation. We have already seen Russia deploy smears, innuendos and disinformation against our Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine, at the same time as elements trying to steal secrets through cyber. That is an important example of how we have to be on our guard when our adversaries take advantage of natural disasters or natural phenomena. We have deployed and used the 77th Brigade throughout this process to challenge disinformation, which is obviously an appropriate use of that brigade. When a foreign country makes something up, spreads a rumour and tries to undermine us, we should challenge that.

All those policies are being proved in this pandemic. Members will see front and centre in the integrated review that resilience is one of the main things on which we must always focus if we are to defend the nation.

Overseas Operations (Service Personnel And Veterans) Bill

Dan Jarvis Excerpts

2nd reading & 2nd reading: House of Commons
Wednesday 23rd September 2020 Commons Chamber

[Dan Jarvis (Barnsley Central) (Lab)]

It is a great pleasure to follow my friend the hon. and gallant Member for Tonbridge and Malling (Tom Tugendhat). It is a great strength of the veterans community, both inside and outside this place, that we can debate these important matters and take a different view but do so with decency and humility.

I should declare an interest as a veteran. I know very well, and we have heard in the House today, the strength of feeling and the very high regard that Members from across the House have for those who serve in our armed forces. No one, whether they have served in the military or otherwise, deserves to be repeatedly investigated without good cause. If we allow that abuse to continue, we fail collectively in our lifelong commitment to support those who have sacrificed themselves for our country.

This Bill seeks to address such abuses, but however well-intentioned it is, it does require significant improving, otherwise it will be potentially damaging both to Britain’s standing in the world and to the reputation of our armed forces.

First, I wish to address the definition of “relevant offences” as laid out in clause 6. Subsection (3) states that an offence is not relevant

“if it is an excluded… by virtue of Part 1 of Schedule 1.”

The offences excluded are largely sexual offences. Although that is, of course, welcome, it is worrying to see the omission of other crimes against humanity and war crimes. I heard what the Secretary of State said earlier, but let us take torture as the obvious example. The prohibition of torture is absolute. There are no exceptions. Its use is illegal under numerous international treaties to which the UK is a signatory, including the Geneva convention.

[Bob Stewart]

Speaking as a commanding officer who has gone into the field, may I point out to the House that it is not just this Bill that we have to operate under? Let us take, for example, torture. Article 17 of the Geneva convention specifically prohibits torture, and we can be charged for that. I certainly used to make great emphasis of this point in training troops to go into the field. It is not just this Bill under which we operate.

[Dan Jarvis]

My friend the hon. and gallant Gentleman raises a very important point. The reality is that, despite what we have heard from some Members today, if this Bill is passed in its current form, a decision to allow a prosecution to proceed following an allegation of torture after five years had elapsed would be made virtually impossible due to the threshold imposed by the triple lock. This is not the way to rebuild our reputation on the international stage. It would mean the UK reneging on our international legal obligations and could well put us at odds with the ICC. At a time when we are witnessing an erosion of human rights and leaders turning their backs on international institutions, it is more important than ever before that we uphold our values and standards and not undermine them.

Through this Bill, the Government are seeking to right a wrong, but not by addressing the root cause of the issue. In an interview last year—we have heard the quote already, but it is worth hearing again—the Minister for Defence People and Veterans said that one of the biggest problems with this was

“the military’s inability to investigate itself properly and the standard of those investigations. If those investigations were done properly and self-regulation had occurred, we probably wouldn’t be here today.”

The Minister is absolutely right, and the underlying problem is how we have ended up at this point, but nowhere in the Bill does it mention the need to review how military investigations are conducted. If we had a credible investigatory system that dealt with allegations in an effective, impartial and timely manner—one that allowed us to refer back with confidence—we would not be in the position that we are in now.

There is, though, plenty of support across this House for measures that will protect members of our armed forces. We all know, and I am sure we all agree, that historical prosecutions of our veterans is an emotionally charged subject and one that urgently demands a solution, because nobody—surely nobody—wants to see a repeat of the decades of legal wrangling, the delay and the misery that are still ongoing following investigations into the troubles.

I conclude by saying that the overwhelming majority of members of our armed forces serve with distinction and honour, and they follow the rules, but no one—not one of us—is above the law, and that principle remains true whether or not somebody wears a uniform. One of the best ways to protect our troops is to ensure that we apply the rule of law in every instance. There is much work to be done to improve this Bill, and I hope very much that Ministers will listen to the concerns that have been expressed today and work constructively to improve it in Committee and beyond. I hope that we all agree that we owe the brave men and women of our armed forces—the people who serve our nation—a massive debt. Diminishing their hard-won reputation by reneging on our legal and moral obligations is not the manner in which to repay it.

Counter-Daesh Update

Dan Jarvis Excerpts

Wednesday 22nd July 2020 Commons Chamber

[Mr Wallace]

With our deployments in the Strait of Hormuz we participate in constabulary duties, including patrols and so on, and we work with our allies, such as the United States. Where we find intelligence or something suspicious, we try to help to ensure that that zone is not increased by weapons smuggling. Only recently, for example, the Saudis managed to interdict significant weapons supplies to the Houthi, which would have had only one effect—make the situation worse. Those supplies were interdicted and stopped.

[Dan Jarvis (Barnsley Central) (Lab) [V]]

I join with others in paying tribute to the extraordinary professionalism and dedication of our armed forces. I also pay tribute to Lance-Corporal Brodie Gillon. She will be very deeply missed and we will always remember her.

As the Secretary of State said in his statement, the recent increase in its co-ordinated bloody attacks shows that the fight with Daesh is not yet over. For our part, the UK must continue to set an example as a world leader in protecting civilians in conflict. What steps is his Department taking, as part of the integrated review, to update its protection of civilians strategy?

[Mr Wallace]

When we are engaged in targeting, as the hon. Gentleman will probably know, we are very, very careful to make sure that we adhere not only to international law but all the safeguards we can to ensure innocent people are not killed or put in harm’s way. At the same time, after a strike is concluded there is a wash-up, a debrief and a check back, through different methods, of what exactly happened to make sure if there are any lessons to be learned. I take incredibly seriously anything that would lead to civilians being killed. We do not help the people of Iraq by poor use of our weapons. It is appalling, and if we want to deal with Daesh we have to show we are on the side of the community, not frighten the community or indeed make mistakes that cost lives among those very people we are there to help. That is the most important thing for me. I take a very, very detailed look at it. I made sure, right from the start of being in this job, that I reviewed all the rules that we had signed up to and followed, and indeed what tolerances there were, because that is a very important obligation to any elected Member.

Oral Answers to Questions

Dan Jarvis Excerpts

Monday 16th March 2020 Commons Chamber

[James Heappey]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for raising this excellent programme that the Army offers. While on licence, offenders remain subject to automatic custody recall for failing to meet licence conditions or committing any arrestable offence and therefore cannot be recruited, as I am sure he appreciates. However, he asks me about a fantastic thing. The Army, Navy and Air Force are brilliant vehicles for social mobility, and I am sure we would be keen to expand that programme in any way we can.

[Dan Jarvis (Barnsley Central) (Lab)]

14. What steps his Department is taking to prepare for the integrated review of security, defence, development and foreign policy.

[The Secretary of State for Defence (Mr Ben Wallace)]

The Ministry of Defence is fully committed to its part in supporting the successful delivery of the Government’s ambition for the integrated review. The review is working on four main workstreams: the Euro-Atlantic alliance, great power competition, global issues and homeland security. Work in the MOD to support those workstreams has been ongoing since the election and is closely linked to this year’s comprehensive spending review.

[Dan Jarvis]

I am sure the Secretary of State agrees that current events reflect the need for the integrated review, to ensure that Britain plays its part on the global stage with our partners and in the spirit of international co-operation, but does he think it is feasible to conduct a review that is expected to result in the biggest reform of our armed forces since the cold war in the present climate and over the current timescale?

[Mr Wallace]

I hear what the hon. Gentleman says. The review’s stakeholders are the Foreign Office, No. 10, the Cabinet Office and ourselves. We will regularly review that decision. There is no ideological block or determination to carry on come what may. With this coronavirus growing, if it is the right thing to do, we will absolutely pause the review if necessary; if not, we shall move forward.