18:59 - The House divided: - Ayes: 256 / Noes: 357 - Question accordingly negatived.
The Minister for the Armed Forces (James Heappey)
I thank the shadow Secretary of State for the tribute he paid to the Duke of Edinburgh—one with which I very much agree, and I know all of my colleagues in the Ministry of Defence do too. The military are taking great pride in their preparations for his funeral on Saturday, where they hope to give him the send-off he deserves.
I welcome this debate. We live in a new age of systemic competition where information, data and technology shape conflict every bit as much as ships, tanks and fighter jets. Military hardware can be undermined by cyber-attacks or by the severing of undersea cables, while the use of proxy forces and other covert and deniable activities makes it harder to determine when the threshold of war has been crossed. So we have to think about defence differently.
“The Integrated Operating Concept 2025”, published last year, changes the way we think about our response to conflict. No longer can we have a contingent force sat in the UK waiting for the fight. Instead we must be operating persistently around the globe in forging partnerships, building capacity, tackling insecurity and competing with our adversaries. Make no mistake, however: we recognise that we cannot be upstream of every potential conflict and that we must therefore not only be able to operate but able to fight.
We can all be nostalgic over the force structures that won the wars of yesteryear. Undoubtedly there is a comfort in looking out of the window and seeing row upon row of the capabilities that have kept us safe in the past. But as surely as hoof became wheel and sail gave way to steam, we should all be clear that technology is moving on quickly and industrial capabilities will no longer get the job done alone. We have a duty to the British men and women of our armed forces not to indulge in a game of military bingo, obsessed with the metrics of previous conflicts. Instead we must keep adapting to the threat, because the reality is that if we fail to change, we will be defeated.
Mr Tobias Ellwood (Bournemouth East) (Con)
My hon. Friend talks about adapting to the threat. We have the technological advantage in Afghanistan, yet Afghanistan has been seen as a failure—something he is more familiar with than many in this House. Now that the United States has declared that it is going to withdraw its troops, could he confirm what will happen to the British troops that are based there?
James Heappey
As the shadow Secretary of State noted, my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State is not able to respond to this debate in person because he is at the meeting of the North Atlantic Council, along with my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary. The decisions on this are being taken this afternoon in Brussels. I hope that my right hon. Friend will forgive me if I do not pre-empt that, but I am certain that either the Defence Secretary or the Foreign Secretary will want to notify the House with appropriate urgency if and when such a decision has been made.
John Spellar
The Minister was slightly dismissive of looking at the arrays of traditional vehicles. What does he think is now massing on the borders of Ukraine as a direct challenge to NATO?
James Heappey
If the right hon. Gentleman will allow, I will make some progress with my speech, because I had foreseen that such challenge may come.
Over the past 20 years, as we have been engaged in Iraq and Afghanistan, our adversaries have been watching and learning from how insurgent forces, hopelessly over- matched in a conventional sense, have still been able to impose enormous costs on our military and the militaries of our allies. There has been no sentimentality in the way that they have accelerated into new domains and experimented with new technologies.
The Defence Command Paper captures that reality. Last November, my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister laid the groundwork for the modernisation of our forces by granting defence the most generous settlement since the cold war, with a commitment to spend £188 billion on defence over the coming four years—an increase of £24 billion. Our Command Paper has taken that investment and used it to deliver a more technologically advanced, better integrated and therefore more deadly force that will underpin our nation’s firepower in this new age of systemic competition. Inevitably this has meant some hard choices, but it is worth reminding ourselves, especially given the rather pessimistic view of the inventory set out by the shadow Secretary of State, what is actually still in the inventory.
At sea, we have the best carriers, air defence destroyers and hunter-killer submarines in the world, and our Navy will be enhanced further by the best anti-submarine warships and new general purpose frigates already under construction at Rosyth and on the Clyde. The Royal Navy’s fleet is growing for the first time since the cold war and, with the renewal of our continuous at-sea nuclear deterrent, makes us the foremost naval power in Europe.
In the air, we will have updated Typhoons, brand-new F-35 Lightning stealth fighters, new unmanned systems capable of striking remotely and massive investment in the next generation of fighter jets and swarming drones.
On the ground, while our Army will be leaner, it will also be more integrated, more active and more lethal—pound-for-pound the most innovative and effective in the world, able to make the most of new Ajax vehicles, revamped attack helicopters, brand-new Boxer armoured fighting vehicles, state-of-the-art air defence, long-range precision artillery and new electronic warfare capabilities. It has taken far too long to get these updates, but we are going to have the best-equipped Army in Europe by the end of the decade.
Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)
I know that the Minister is a friend of Northern Ireland, but recruitment in Northern Ireland has been at its highest level and recruitment to the Territorial Army has maxed out at this moment in time. Can the Minister give an assurance that extra recruitment and places will be made available for Northern Ireland, because more TA soldiers could be recruited?
James Heappey
The hon. Gentleman is entirely right that Northern Ireland is a rich recruiting ground for people wanting to serve in our armed forces, and especially our reserve. The reserve has an important part to play in the plans the Army, Navy and Air Force have for the future, and I have every expectation that we will be able to extend increased opportunity to Northern Ireland. The detail of that has yet to be confirmed, but I hope that within the next couple of months the hon. Gentleman will get a more detailed answer to his question.
Bob Stewart (Beckenham) (Con)
The Minister has outlined a concept predicated on the armed forces fighting an all-out war—a war where no holds are barred and we use everything. I get that; I understand grey-zone thinking—I am a strategist, too; I read it in great detail at university. However, for 70 years we have never fought anything like such a war; instead, we have had limited operations, we have had counter-insurgency operations, and we have had peacekeeping and peace- making, and this Government are preparing to cut the very people—the lifeblood—that carries out such operations, and that really worries me.
James Heappey
I thank my right hon. and gallant Friend for his intervention, but I do not agree with his analysis. In this part of my speech I am setting out the conventional war-fighting capabilities because the shadow Secretary of State set out a very pessimistic view of what they would be, but the reality is that the key change being made through the integrated review and Defence Command Paper is to enhance the capabilities my right hon. Friend rightly stresses will be in most demand as we address the challenges of tomorrow, and they are the ones that exist below the threshold of conflict. If he will indulge me, in a couple of minutes he will hear some of the things that I think might answer his question in more detail.
That is why we are investing heavily in the national cyber force, bringing together the resources of the Ministry of Defence and the intelligence community to deceive, degrade, deny, disrupt and destroy targets in and through cyber-space. It is also why we have established a new space command that will enhance our military surveillance and communication capabilities from space, assist in the co-ordination of commercial space operations and lead the development of new low and high orbit capabilities.
Moreover, we know that the threats to UK interests, both in space and in cyberspace, are not just from ones and zeroes. Our adversaries are investing in capabilities that put our undersea fibre-optic cables and our satellites at physical risk as well, so we need the ability to protect and defend our interests in the depths of the oceans and in the heights of space.
Nor are we alone in seeking to modernise. Our adversaries as well as our allies are making rapid headway, and some of the most cutting-edge capabilities are now commercially available, meaning that the highest grade technology is no longer the preserve of the best resourced militaries. So we are investing to stay ahead of the curve and recover our technological edge, putting aside at least £6.6 billion for research and development to supercharge innovation in the next generation of disruptive capabilities, from directed energy weapons to swarming drones.
But it is not just about what you’ve got; it is what you do with it. I have already set out the vision of the integrated operating concept, and over the next year or two the Ministry of Defence will be expanding our forward presence around the world as we shift from a contingent force waiting for the fight to one that operates and competes constantly. In the land domain, some of our most effective work is with small specialised infantry teams developing the capacity of partner forces in the parts of the world that cause us concern. We are reinforcing that success through the creation of the special operations-capable rangers and thus doubling the size of our partnering force. Our fighting brigades, meanwhile, will move to higher readiness so that they can deploy and operate more quickly. They will also gain capabilities that allow them to engage their enemy at greater range, thus reflecting the lessons on close combat learned from recent conflicts in northern Syria and Nagorno-Karabakh.
Mr Ellwood
I need to clarify the difference between what the rangers will do and what our Royal Marines do, because the Royal Marines are concerned that they are being put out of a job. Everything that my hon. Friend has just described could be done by the Royal Marines. Let us take an example in Mozambique. Were we to put this rangers brigade in, who would replace them after five or six months? Where is the endurance capability that our armed forces need to provide?
James Heappey
I am afraid that my right hon. Friend is not right in what he thinks the rangers will do. The distinction is that 16 Air Assault, the Parachute Regiment and 3 Commando Brigade, as high-readiness contingent forces who are there to fight at short notice in hostile contested environments such as the ones he describes, still do exactly that from the air or the sea, depending on whether it is 16 Air Assault or 3 Commando. The rangers will be a special operations-capable partnering force designed to train, advise, assist and accompany partner forces in conflicts around the world, not to be a fighting force in and of themselves. That distinction is one that we have observed from the success of the US Green Berets, which have been very successful, and we are looking forward to having that as part of the toolkit for the UK armed forces in the future.
Needless to say, in increasing readiness and being able to operate more quickly, there is still a requirement for war-fighting mass, and that leads to a long overdue revisiting of what we ask of our reservists. I am very much looking forward to the publication of the reserve forces 2030 review, and I am confident that in the discussion that follows we will come out with an exciting proposition of what it means to serve in the reserve and what value that can add as we generate war-fighting mass.
In the air, we have created a joint squadron with Qatar, and we are looking at how this concept can be extended further with other partner air forces, as well as offering world-leading flying training to helicopter and fast jet pilots from our allies around the world. Meanwhile, investment in the P-8 maritime patrol aircraft, in the E-7 airborne command and control, in the Protector uncrewed surveillance and strike platform and in a network of airfields from which we can operate the full range of RAF capabilities, enhances our capacity to understand our adversaries, find them quickly and strike them wherever they are, all around the globe.
At sea, we have had forward deployed ships in the Caribbean and the Falklands for a number of years, and I can announce to the House that last week HMS Trent arrived in Gibraltar, where she will now be permanently based in order to service the UK’s interests in both the Mediterranean and the Gulf of Guinea. Later in the year, a further offshore patrol vessel will sail for the Indo-Pacific, where she will also be permanently forward based. The maritime forward presence is further enhanced by the restoration of our high-readiness global carrier strike capability and the new littoral response groups providing an at-sea high readiness amphibious response force on NATO’s northern and southern flanks.
However, let there be no misunderstanding: we are clear-eyed on the realities of geography. We are a Euro-Atlantic power and deeply invested in the security of Europe. NATO is the cornerstone of our national security, so our priority is our partnership with other Euro-Atlantic nations and the security of our own backyard, but it is naive in the extreme to think that that means we can ignore insecurity and instability on Europe’s southern flank in sub-Saharan Africa and the middle east.
The UK interest is threatened by violent extremism in the Sahel, the Lake Chad basin and the horn of Africa, and so too is it threatened by Russian proxies massing in Libya and Syria, but those are not problems that would be solved by 10,000 troops on the ground in any one of those places. The lessons of the last two decades show that we must work intelligently to tackle instability upstream and through regional partners. We simply cannot muscle our way to a solution in those places with all-out hard power. Our contribution on those conflicts in the future must be smarter and must develop a capability that will endure even after our mission is inevitably over.
We should also be clear that meeting our global trading ambitions requires both the capacity and the will to protect our sea lines of communication and the wider UK interests in the Indo-Pacific. The Opposition have wrongly characterised that as a switch in emphasis from the Euro-Atlantic to the Indo-Pacific. Instead, it is a recognition that we have the capability, the capacity and the political will to flex hard power into a part of the world where the UK’s strategic interest is growing quickly, so that we can strengthen our alliances, protect our interests and promote adherence to a rules-based international system.
The integrated review and the Defence Command Paper represent the boldest change in foreign, defence and security policy for 30 years, and it is entirely right that we are here debating them today. I know that there is disagreement on both sides of the House about some of the judgments that we have made, but the requirement is to produce a force that is credible: one that can actually fight in the complex and highly digitised battlespace of tomorrow. Some capabilities have run their course, and there can be no room for sentiment in keeping them when they simply are not relevant any more.
Ultimately, this all comes down to two key questions: first, are we offering the men and women of our armed forces exciting opportunities and the equipment they deserve; and secondly, and most important, does all this make the UK safer? I have already looked servicemen and women in the eye and explained to them our vision for our armed forces and the way they will operate, and so too have my ministerial colleagues and the senior military leaderships of all three services. Our people get this: they understand the need for change, and they want it. The reality is that they can see, and I can see, that because of this transformation, our armed forces will be stronger, more capable and therefore better able to protect our country in the decades ahead.
The Minister for Defence People and Veterans (Johnny Mercer)
It has been an interesting debate. As you well know, Mr Deputy Speaker, I thoroughly enjoy any debates in the House on military or veterans matters, and today has been another one. There have been some enthusiastic contributions, which is fantastic to see. Some of them were slightly light on detail and facts, but I am not going to work through correcting all of those because I understand the premise of the debate and I will respond to a couple of the points that have been made.
I would just gently say that we must never treat our service people in this country like they are stupid. For Members to claim that everything under a Labour Government has been okay and that the Conservative Government have slashed and burned the military is to treat people who serve and people in this country like they are stupid. It is fundamentally untrue. There have been challenges over the years, and the really uncomfortable and embarrassing truth for Opposition Members who are so loud is that I was actually fighting in the compounds in Afghanistan when the right hon. Member for North Durham (Mr Jones) was a Minister in the Department, and I can tell the House that it was a deeply unpleasant experience that was made more unpleasant by the management and leadership of the Department at the time. So I will take no lessons in party politics when it comes to what has happened with defence.
We all agree that strong armed forces are essential to the wellbeing of our nation. As the Minister for the Armed Forces, my hon. Friend the Member for Wells (James Heappey), mentioned, the reforms we have set out in our integrated review and in the Defence Command Paper will enhance, rather than reduce, the strength of our military to meet future threats. One of my hon. Friends who is no longer in his place talked about the strength of the military and what that strength actually is. I think it was someone rather unpleasant who said that mass had a force of its own, and I am not going to deny that. To deny it would be to scream at the weather.
I have huge sympathy with my right hon. Friend the Member for Beckenham (Bob Stewart), who I have had deep feeling for over a number of years. I have huge respect for his service and for what he did during his time, but it is a truth—a truism—that our people are now more capable and we can do more at reach for a longer period of time with greater strategic effect than we could 20 years ago. That is a truism of global conflict. I totally understand the frustrations, and I apologise to my right hon. Friend that nobody spoke to him before the decision was made on his sub-unit. I will go and investigate what happened there. But it is a truism that we can be more capable and achieve more with fewer individuals in uniform now.
As for the idea that the military is being cut, we have to be honest with the British people. Yes, there are going to be fewer people in the military, but we can now deploy at a far faster rate and at a far greater global reach, and that is what matters today. So yes, mass has a force all of its own, and you will find no Minister in the Defence Department who does not want more money for the Defence budget and more people in the military, but the reality is, as the Secretary of State has said a number of times, that we have to operate within the envelope of our ambition in this country when it comes to the military. In that context, it is a very good and exciting review, and I will come on to talk about the people, because I know that a number of Members raised issues around how people are treated.
I will, if I may, briefly pay tribute to some of the contributions. My right hon. Friend the Member for New Forest East (Dr Lewis) spoke on his traditional theme of CASD. The commitment of those who maintain the continuous at-sea deterrent is extraordinary, and it is a commitment not only from them, but from their families. If we think about what it means to go away on those boats for a prolonged period of time, we realise that separation without any contact is extraordinary, and their commitment endures year after year. We owe them a huge debt for the ongoing security they provide in this country.
The right hon. Member for Warley (John Spellar) again went on about all the mistakes Tory Governments have made over the years. I have addressed that. I think it is disingenuous, and I am not going to say any more on that. My hon. Friend the Member for Harwich and North Essex (Sir Bernard Jenkin) again talked about CASD and the commitment—
Mr Kevan Jones
On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. I will take your advice, but is it in order to call a Member disingenuous?
Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)
If I had heard anything that was out of order, I would certainly have called it into order. It is part of the debate.
Johnny Mercer
Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. I am getting used to it now.
The hon. Member for Barnsley Central (Dan Jarvis) made some really important points. I know that he spent a long time on such operations, as I did, and he actually made a really critical point, which is that there are no easy answers to these debates. None of them is binary: they are calibrated decisions about where the threat is, how we are going to meet it, and what equipment or people we are going to meet it with. I appreciated his contribution.
When it comes to armed forces families, I pay tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for South West Bedfordshire (Andrew Selous) for the important work that he consistently does in the family space and the people space. On that one issue, I can tell the House unequivocally that this review process has put people at the heart of defence. For the first time, we have produced a document that outlines what the offer is to attract and retain this country’s most talented individuals to a career in defence. I would encourage all Members of this House to go and read that, understand the opportunities that are now available, and then go and speak to the people who are serving.
While we will all have a view on defence—based on what we have been briefed on and what intelligence and secret information we have privileged access to—we will all have a different view, including those who have retired. I respect all those who have retired of senior rank and so on, but the crucial things is to go and speak to the people who serve and ask them what they think about the opportunities that are going to be afforded to them with careers in cyber, space, technical training and operations of the sort that were conducted by a very small specialist cohort in the military only 10 or 15 years ago. It is important to speak to them about the opportunities afforded by the future accommodation model or about mental health care now, where they can access a single front door and be totally confident that they will have a secure and coherent care pathway through NHS mental health services.
These lines—these campaign lines—are trotted out, and I understand that. I understand how this place works, but I am afraid I will draw the line when it comes to saying things that are simply not correct about our military, because we already have enough challenges. Everybody knows that I have come to this place to try to reset the relationship between the military and the nation, so I will be honest with colleagues when that line is broken, but this review puts people at the heart of defence. It is a good piece of work, and I am proud of it. I think we can honestly look young people in the eye today in all of our constituencies and maintain that defence remains the No. 1, premier choice of career for our young and talented people in this country.
I thank all Members for their contributions to the debate today. As I say, it has been very interesting and very passionate, and there were a lot of fair points. There is not one school of thought on this, but we do have to operate within the envelope we have been asked to operate within. In that respect, it is a good review. We should get behind it, and be proud of the UK’s armed forces, which remain the finest armed forces in the world.
Mr Deputy Speaker
I am now going to put the Question, and you will be expected to vote the way you are shouting. Clearly, if I hear one audible and persistent voice, you will have a vote, and a vote is expected.
Question put.