Debates between Damian Hinds and John Hayes during the 2019-2024 Parliament

Mon 6th Jun 2022
National Security Bill
Commons Chamber

2nd reading & 2nd reading

National Security Bill

Debate between Damian Hinds and John Hayes
2nd reading
Monday 6th June 2022

(2 years, 4 months ago)

Commons Chamber
Read Full debate National Security Act 2023 View all National Security Act 2023 Debates Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Stewart Hosie Portrait Stewart Hosie
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Will the Minister give way?

John Hayes Portrait Sir John Hayes
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Will the Minister give way?

Damian Hinds Portrait Damian Hinds
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Yes, and then I can deal with both questions at once.

Damian Hinds Portrait Damian Hinds
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I give way to my right hon. Friend the Member for South Holland and The Deepings (Sir John Hayes).

John Hayes Portrait Sir John Hayes
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I am grateful to the Minister. I hear what the right hon. Member for Dundee East (Stewart Hosie) says. It is a compelling case, although I do not agree with it. The Official Secrets Act 1989 deals with the unauthorised disclosure of sensitive information by civil servants; giving information to journalists; a WikiLeaks-type disclosure dressed up as being by a guardian of liberty or some such other nonsense. This Bill does not deal with that unless those people are working directly for a foreign power. They might not be working directly for a foreign power, but they might be aiding a foreign power or acting indirectly for such a foreign power, and surely that needs to be included in the Bill.

Damian Hinds Portrait Damian Hinds
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I will come back to my right hon. Friend’s point in a moment. To the point that the right hon. Member for Dundee East (Stewart Hosie) made, our position is that a public interest defence is just not the safest and best way for people to make disclosures, for some of the reasons I gave a moment ago.