Oral Answers to Questions
Debate between Damian Hinds and Chris Stephens(8 months, 2 weeks ago)
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Damian Hinds
I agree with my hon. Friend. There is relevant content in different parts of the curriculum, not only in mathematics, which is statutory throughout key stages 1 to 4, but at secondary level in citizenship. Further elements such as computing are particularly relevant to online fraud. In relationships, sex and health education, some aspects of fraud are covered, as is gambling, but I absolutely agree that it is important to keep these things under review.
Chris Stephens (Glasgow South West) (SNP)
Oral Answers to Questions
Debate between Damian Hinds and Chris Stephens(1 year, 6 months ago)
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The Minister of State, Ministry of Justice (Damian Hinds)
As my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State explained earlier, getting offenders and ex-offenders into work has a material impact on the odds against their returning to a life of crime. There is a fantastic opportunity to maximise that because of the tightness of the labour market. My hon. Friend is right about the need to match local skills needs, and the employment advisory boards are there to ensure that that happens.
Chris Stephens (Glasgow South West) (SNP)
Jobcentres and the DWP Estate
Debate between Damian Hinds and Chris Stephens(7 years, 4 months ago)
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Damian Hinds
I am sorry, I will not. The hon. Lady will have to forgive me, but I want to answer as many questions as possible.
To give some context, the DWP occupies about 1.5 million square metres of office space, but the way it operates is significantly different from 20 years ago, meaning that at least 20% of that space is under-occupied. The falling claimant count and the increased use of online services in recent years mean that 20% of the money the Department spends on rent goes towards space we are not using. By paying only for the space we need and the services required to operate from it, we anticipate saving £140 million per year over the next 10 years. To be clear, this is not about reducing services—the hon. Member for Wirral West alluded to that—but about taking the opportunity to stop spending taxpayers’ money on empty space and instead spend more to support those in need.
The labour market is in its strongest position for some years: the employment rate is 74.8%, the joint highest figure on record, and since 2010 unemployment has reduced by 913,000 and the overall number of people claiming the main out-of-work benefits has fallen by more than 1.1 million. In Glasgow over the past four years, the claimant count has come down from 27,890 to 16,800. The DWP estate is bigger than it needs to be, is not flexible enough to deal with the needs of the Department’s customers now and in the future and, in some instances, is of poor quality, preventing improvements such as digital innovation and more interactive ways of working with customers.
The Department is not transforming its estate in isolation. In June 2013, the Government published their first overall estate strategy, which was expanded in October 2014. The strategy aims to ensure that all Departments are working towards an effective and efficient Government estate that provides value for money to the taxpayer, delivers better, more integrated public services and acts as an enabler of growth. In January this year, we announced proposals to rationalise the DWP estate. The proposals encompassed most of our Jobcentre Plus offices, processing centres and head office buildings. Our announcements on 5 July finalised those plans for the majority of sites.
In our processing centres, the changes move towards creating larger, modern, digitally enabled centres, with teams working on several areas coming together to deliver a joined-up, efficient service to our customers. The focus is on creating an estate with a much improved working environment, with more opportunities for our staff to develop, learn new skills and progress.
Significant investment starting in 2018 will include the opening of a new processing centre in Glasgow, which will allow us to bring together colleagues from smaller, older sites across the area into a new property fitted out to create an efficient, effective working environment that allows the DWP to align more closely with other Departments working in the area. With the existing large processing site in Northgate, that will result in a DWP presence of more than 2,000 staff in Glasgow. In total in Scotland, we will keep a substantial processing presence, with large sites in locations such as Falkirk and Kilmarnock expanding to bring further jobs into those areas.
That investment will continue with a new purpose-built site in the Treforest area to the north of Cardiff in south Wales, which will bring together colleagues from smaller, older sites across the region into a new building and provide about 1,600 jobs in one of the most deprived areas in the UK. We are also working on similar large processing sites in Bristol, Birmingham and Hastings. Together with the changes to how we work in some of our remaining properties, that will create a processing estate that will be able to support the Department well into the future, while remaining flexible enough to deal with changing needs over the coming years.
The changes in the jobcentre network focus on three things: first, moving some jobcentres to shared Government premises to allow for better, more efficient use of space and a more co-ordinated service; secondly, moving some jobcentres to new buildings because the quality of the existing property is not up to scratch or is unable to meet the needs of our customers now and in the future; and thirdly, merging smaller and underused jobcentres to create larger operations that offer a better, more joined-up service to our customers. The changes include around 40 new opportunities to collocate jobcentre services into local authority or community premises, which will result in about 80 collocations in total.
In Scotland, we have 95 jobcentres, which is more jobcentres per head of population than in England. The changes will result in 11 jobcentres merging into nearby offices, three jobcentres moving into shared offices with local authorities and councils, and one jobcentre moving into an improved building in the same town. The resulting 85 jobcentres across the country still leaves Scotland with significantly more offices per head of population than England.
In Glasgow, we have 17 jobcentres, which the hon. Member for Glasgow South West acknowledged in his opening speech was more per head of population than in any other major city in Great Britain. Even with the reduction to 11 jobcentres, Glasgow will continue to have more per head of population than other cities. We consulted on three moves in Glasgow—Maryhill, Castlemilk and Bridgeton—and held a further consultation on Broxburn. The changes will enable the Department to offer a more efficient service while delivering value for the taxpayer.
The changes have been developed working closely with local leaders, using their local knowledge of the area, travel network, customers and community needs. Distance and journey times were calculated using a variety of methods to ensure accuracy in our planning, including online tools and timetables, as well as information collected on local public transport routes. Most importantly, that was all used to inform discussions with local staff, with their experience and knowledge of their areas.
Any change with an impact on DWP employees has involved consultation with them and their trade unions. In most cases, staff consultation began with an announcement back in January, followed by three to five weeks of discussion when we considered the impact of any changes on their offices. We have consulted the public on any jobcentre mergers that may mean customers will have to travel a little further. There is no statutory requirement for such consultation, but we were committed to making the decisions in consultation and have conducted public consultations on all proposed closures of jobcentres that fall outside the ministerial criteria.
Damian Hinds
I was trying to leave the hon. Gentleman a minute at the end, but he may go ahead.
Chris Stephens
The Minister has outlined the Government strategy. May I ask him a simple question? Is he saying that more jobcentre closures are on the cards? In other words, is the Department planning more closures?
Damian Hinds
I am fairly sure that I was talking not about that, but about the consultation criteria. At the end of the process, we will have a settled estate, which will put us in a better position to share services and so on with other bodies.
I will skip over some of my material and respond directly to some of the questions that came up in the debate. The hon. Member for Wirral West asked about concerns about travel times and travel costs. I reassure Members that claimants can be reimbursed for any travel to jobcentres that is more frequent than fortnightly. For those on JSA for more than 13 weeks and, in some circumstances, from the very first day on other benefits, it is possible to apply for a Jobcentre Plus travel discount card, which is available for different local transport companies. Of course, anyone on employment and support allowance is not asked to attend the jobcentre regularly. The existing outreach services and the additional ones that we will put in place as a result of the changes will give us more presence in local areas.
On sanctions, the point is that we ask people to make reasonable efforts to get to appointments and other things they have committed to as part of their job search. There will be a transition time as people get used to different arrangements, but the requirement for people to make reasonable efforts will always remain.
On access to online facilities, DWP always has an alternative to online, but in this day and age it is also true that to look for work and to be in work, it is increasingly essential to have some IT skills. We therefore think it is important to help people with that, which is one of the reasons why we provide IT equipment in jobcentre lobbies and have people who can help claimants with it.
The hon. Member for Glasgow South (Stewart Malcolm McDonald) asked whether the other jobcentres in Glasgow have the capacity to take in the extra operations. The answer is that they do—that is the entire basis of our plans. We will put outreach in place in those locations where we had a public consultation because the distances travelled would be a little further.
We want to minimise all risk of job losses. We have not yet completed all the conversations with staff, and we are continuing to have those one-to-ones. The DWP has a good record over many years of retaining staff. We will seek to facilitate that as much as possible.
Some of the questions were about working with the Scottish Government. We are keen to do so, and we look forward to more such opportunities in future. I was also asked about the equality impact assessment, and we have built in consideration of the impact on people with protected characteristics through all stages of the estates project process. We will continue to do so, thus fulfilling our duty under the Equalities Act 2010.
Telephone Calls to the DWP
Debate between Damian Hinds and Chris Stephens(7 years, 5 months ago)
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Damian Hinds
Yes, of course I recognise that. I represent a rural constituency myself, and it is important to have other options available where necessary. It is also the case that when we are dealing with people seeking work, for example, being able to get online is vital for that purpose. That is one of the reasons why we also ensure IT provision inside jobcentres.
It would not be an effective use of public money to build universal credit around a freephone telephone number, but where customers need to call DWP regarding their claim, it is through an 0345 number. The costs of calling an 0345 telephone number are set by individual providers, but they are never more than the cost of calling geographic numbers, which have 01 and 02 dialling codes. Calls to 0345 telephone numbers are typically included in any free or inclusive minutes in a caller’s landline or mobile telephone contract. Although there are a multitude of service providers and tariffs, I can confirm that calls to 0345 telephone numbers are included in bundled minutes for mobile services by the biggest providers—EE, 02 and Vodafone—as well as most of the others.
I know that in the past the hon. Gentleman has raised the use of more expensive 0845 telephone numbers. I am pleased to be able to confirm that the DWP does not use 0845 telephone numbers in any of its communication channels. We replaced 0845 numbers with 0345 numbers during 2014 and 2015. That process was completed before the Ofcom changes in call charges came into effect in 2015, making calls to 0845 numbers more expensive. After the DWP 0345 numbers were introduced, customers calling an old DWP 0845 telephone number would receive a recorded message informing them that they should dial the correct 0345 number. There was no charge for the call to the old 0845 telephone number.
I appreciate, of course, that some of the most vulnerable people in society have to contact DWP services, which is why, if callers express concern about the cost of a call, we offer to call them back. The Department provides controlled access to telephones for claimants in jobcentres, when required, to help with any benefit inquiries. It has also expanded its “once and done” service centre approach across its working-age, disability and specialist sites, so that it can meet a claimant’s needs during the first call whenever possible. It continues to review and identify opportunities for integrating telephony and benefit-processing activity further to improve the service it delivers.
The Department is proactive in considering how further to reduce any potential cost impact on customers when they need to transact business. As Members will know, in delivering welfare reform, universal credit is designed to be accessed online, with telephony services used as a back-up. The universal credit experience is delivering an effective channel shift away from the use of telephony, with over 90% of new claims made through digital interfaces and away from the telephone.
Damian Hinds
If the hon. Gentleman will forgive me, we will see how the time goes.
A telephony option is always available to people who may not have internet access, or who are experiencing difficulties in accessing the service online.
The DWP is also seeking to exploit new and emerging technology to keep in touch with claimants. We have introduced SMS text messaging for a number of service lines to confirm to customers receipt of their claims, information or documents, or to let them know when they can expect an outcome. Those changes reduce contact from claimants chasing updates, while increasing the overall customer service experience. The service operates for new claims for employment and support allowance and jobseeker’s allowance, and was introduced more recently to acknowledge receipt of fit notes.
The Department is developing a strategy across all the services it delivers, which will allow us to carry out a safe transition of our key telephony platforms and consider how to make best use of new technologies and contact channels. Given the complexity of the services that the Department delivers and the range of customers with whom we interact, it is vital to ensure that we really understand the range of services that citizens need in order to interact with us. I am sure Members appreciate that a “one size fits all” approach would not be successful. The Department has to strike the right balance between the cost to callers and the cost to taxpayers, which is why a mixture of freephone and paid—but never premium-rate—telephone numbers is available to citizens. As the hon. Gentleman said, if the 0800 numbering range were extended to all service lines, it would cost the taxpayer an additional £7 million per year.
Chris Stephens
According to the gov.uk website, telephone calls to 0345 numbers can cost up to 55p a minute. Can the Minister confirm that that information is correct?
Damian Hinds
I have here the print-out of that page. It lists a number of different telephone number prefixes. Members will be aware that these days there are more telephone number prefixes than when we were growing up. The service on the Government website is to help people to understand what it means if they see an 03, an 0845, or an 07 number. It lists a range of costs for geographic numbers—the numbers we have for our homes; the 01 and 02 numbers—and a range for 03 numbers, which is the same as the range for the geographic numbers. That is what the tariff reflects. I am happy to confirm to the hon. Gentleman that we have been through that information today. There are a couple of minor points on the gov.uk information site that need to be updated, but they do not relate to any of the number prefixes that are in use at present by the DWP.
Chris Stephens
We will take that as a yes, so may I ask the Minister the following? He talked about a range of services and using different telephone lines and numbers for those services. Will he seriously consider setting up a free phone line for those who have received benefit late—for example, someone who should have had money on the Friday and who had to chase that up on the Monday?
Damian Hinds
Obviously, we want the system to be as accurate as possible. We want to reduce the requirement for people to be in touch with the Department for those reasons. When they have to, we want that to be done as quickly and as efficiently as possible. I have outlined the Department’s policy. There is a range of 0800 numbers. The rest are 0345 numbers, which are equivalent to a normal, geographic land call. Typically, in a mobile phone contract or bundles on pay as you go, that would be included in the minutes that one has. We think that that is a fair and reasonable approach. There is still the option to request a call-back, too.
I want to come on to some of the other issues that the hon. Gentleman raised. He alluded to the fact that he and I have exchanged correspondence on the issue of third parties seeking to make a profit out of calls to the DWP. As he rightly mentioned, that can happen with other services, too. I would like to take the opportunity of this debate to update Members on that important issue.
I can confirm that my Department does not make any revenue out of calls to our publicised telephone numbers. We know that there is a small number of companies that seek to make money by providing an alternative, and usually more expensive, telephone number that then routes callers through to the Government helplines. Although that practice may be considered unethical, it is not illegal, provided the company does not pretend to be the Government and does not state that it is officially affiliated. The DWP is aware of a small number of sites that advertise that type of service, primarily owned by the same individual.
I strongly encourage internet search-engine providers actively to police and manage advertisers and subscribers who may look to profit from some vulnerable members of our society by advertising expensive or premium rate telephone lines as a route to access DWP services that are accessible directly through either freephone 0800 or local rate 0345 telephone numbers. The specific activity known as vishing, where a voicemail is left for the citizen to call back an unofficial number, is generally not widespread within the DWP— only one occurrence has been identified.
The DWP does everything it can to stop customers being caught out and, in that instance, the same number was identified as appearing as an “infobox” on a search engine for universal credit alongside the genuine UC number. The DWP complained to that search-engine provider and the incorrect entry was removed.
We have covered the question of the gov.uk tariff ranges. The hon. Gentleman also asked about steps being taken to improve access to, and people’s capability and confidence in using, IT equipment. As he will know from his visits to our jobcentres, we provide lobby equipment and encourage people to use it. There is often facility for people to bring their own device and be helped to use that, because we do absolutely see digital capability—digital empowerment—as being vital, not just in the claiming of benefits, but in applying for work, and, of course, when getting into work, as there are few jobs these days that do not require some level of IT literacy.
In conclusion, let me reassure hon. Members that the Department is absolutely committed to ensuring that costs for customers are kept to a minimum and that safeguards are in place for those who need them. The Department is in the process of transforming the way in which citizens interact with us, which I am sure hon. Members can appreciate will take us some time to deliver, given the range of services the Department delivers and the number of people we transact with every day. The hon. Gentleman asked about the Social Security Advisory Committee’s recommendation. These things are technology-dependent. The review of our systems is current and we are committed to looking at that closely.
Our telephony policy will be kept under review throughout this process and the Department will continue to seek to strike the right balance between the cost to citizens and the cost to the taxpayer.
Question put and agreed to.
Oral Answers to Questions
Debate between Damian Hinds and Chris Stephens(7 years, 8 months ago)
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Chris Stephens (Glasgow South West) (SNP)
Let me return to the issue of the DWP estate and travel times. Given that this information has been gathered via Google Maps, which has been shown to be inaccurate as some bus services are no longer operational, will the Minister tell me what tests have been carried out to check the accuracy of the information? If there is a possibility of the ministerial guidance being breached, will any further proposed closures will go to public consultation?
Damian Hinds
The hon. Gentleman and I, and many of his colleagues and others from across the House, have had a number of opportunities to debate these matters and to go through individual cases, on individual locations, one by one. We used a variety of sources to determine travel times and “reasonableness” of travel. The ministerial criteria say that if somewhere is within 3 miles or 20 minutes by public transport, it is reasonable to ask somebody to make that journey; otherwise, we have a public consultation.
Backbench Business
Debate between Damian Hinds and Chris Stephens(7 years, 8 months ago)
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The Minister for Employment (Damian Hinds)
As always, it is a great pleasure to see you chairing the debate, Mr Walker. I congratulate the hon. Member for Glasgow South West (Chris Stephens) on securing it and giving us the chance to debate these matters again. I think at one point he suggested that this was the first chance that we had had to debate—
Chris Stephens
For clarity, this is the first time we have had a chance to debate the issue since the UK-wide announcement, not just the Glasgow announcement.
Damian Hinds
I am pleased with that clarification, although we had the urgent question on 30 January, after the UK-wide announcement on 26 January, and the Westminster Hall debate in this Chamber on 20 December, as well as a number of oral and written questions—the hon. Gentleman’s colleague, the hon. Member for Glasgow South (Stewart Malcolm McDonald), suggested more than 100. I have not been counting, but I confirm that it is a substantial number. Of course, we have had the opportunity to meet one to one and with groups as well. I am grateful for this further opportunity to debate these important matters.
On 31 March next year, the DWP’s 20-year private finance initiative contract, which covers the majority of the Department’s property portfolio of more than 900 sites, will expire. The Department for Work and Pensions currently occupies about 1.5 million square metres of office space, and these days at least 20% of it is under-occupied. The falling claimant count and the increased use of our online services in recent years means that 20% of the taxpayers’ money that the Department is spending on rent is going towards space that is not being used. By paying only for the space we do need and the services required to operate from that, we anticipate saving about £180 million a year for the next 10 years.
The expiry of that contract at the end of March 2018 presents both a unique opportunity and a specific requirement to review the estate. In response to changing demands facing the Department, we have redesigned the estate in a way that delivers better value for the taxpayer. I need to be clear that this is not about reducing services; it is about taking the opportunity to stop spending taxpayers’ money on unused space so that we can target money effectively on supporting those in need. We have carefully considered the challenges that we anticipate the Department is likely to face in the future, but the jobs landscape and the way people work has changed significantly in the past 20 years.
As has been mentioned, some 90% of universal credit claims are made online and with more of our services moving online, in common with other organisations, we want to continue making the most of the opportunities that new technologies present to help best meet our claimants’ needs.
Damian Hinds
I am certainly not trying to mislead and I do not think I am misleading. I reassure the hon. Lady that the Department for Work and Pensions, in common with others, does staff and resource planning that takes into account all the different demands that will be made on our services, and that includes the fact that, as a number of Members have mentioned, in universal credit there is the opportunity to work more closely with people, with the workload that that will involve, to encourage more people into work. Of course, that is all part of the plans and not something additional that has not been considered.
The hon. Lady mentioned work with, for example, lone mums on income support. There is also work with partners, as the hon. Member for Wirral West (Margaret Greenwood) mentioned, and then work with people in work, the self-employed and so on. I should add that some of those offers are in development, and we will adjust and evolve the operation of the offer to optimise it as time goes on. However, of course the assumptions on the amount of workload involved are reflected in the plans.
It is right that we reflect not only the impact of the digital revolution in meeting our claimants’ needs but the realities of a more flexible labour market and significant falls in unemployment since 2010. The employment rate is at a new record high: there are more people in work than ever before. We had the statistics on the unemployment rate come out just yesterday: they have hit a 12-year low. In fact, the last time the unemployment rate was lower than what was announced yesterday was in the mid-1970s. Of course, we always have to consider that things in the world will change. That is also considered in the planning assumptions made by the Department.
Chris Stephens
In terms of employment rates, does the Minister not concede that one result of that is that those who are not in work at the moment have specific circumstances and challenges to overcome? On that basis, that should result in more face-to-face, rather than online, contact.
Damian Hinds
The hon. Gentleman makes a characteristically important and insightful point. Of course, what he says is true. There is a distinction to be made between different claimants and clients in different circumstances, in receipt of different types or benefits—for example, people who are on employment and support allowance are not required to attend jobcentres fortnightly or weekly in the same way as people who are in receipt of jobseeker’s allowance.
We want to maximise the opportunities available to all those groups of people, of course. Some of that is about stuff that happens in jobcentres; some of it is not. There are some things that could be done more effectively not in jobcentres than in them, particularly with some people who are further away from the jobs market, as I am sure the hon. Gentleman will recognise.
DWP Policies and Low-income Households
Debate between Damian Hinds and Chris Stephens(7 years, 10 months ago)
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Damian Hinds
As the House knows, narrowing the disability employment gap is an absolutely priority for this Government, and I am pleased to say that we are now making progress on that, but there is a great deal more to be done—nobody denies that. We must ensure that there are more opportunities available to people with disabilities, including through our jobcentre network, but part of that is making sure that the right services are available and that we have the resources in place to be able to afford the people, facilities and courses that can help support those people.
The claimant count has dropped from almost 1.5 million in 2010 to around 800,000 now. In some cases we are using only 25% of the floor space in sites we are renting. That is 25% of the value for 100% of the rent. Every penny that we spend on space under Labour’s PFI is money that could be going back into the public purse, helping to protect vital services.
Damian Hinds
I am going to have to ask the hon. Gentleman for his forgiveness.
Those services and support include our own, because we are expanding what we do. In fact, we expect to have over 2,000 more work coaches in 2018 than we have today. In deciding what changes it is reasonable to make to the estate, we have carefully considered the impact on claimants, including travel times. We think that it is reasonable to ask somebody to attend a new jobcentre that is either less than three miles away from their existing jobcentre, or 20 minutes away by public transport. Of course, many claimants, including constituents of many Members on the Opposition Benches, travel considerably further than that, as of course do many people in work.
The UK Government have devolved powers for existing benefits worth some £2.7 billion to the Scottish Government. Scotland can also top up benefits and create new benefits. With that, of course, comes the corresponding responsibility and accountability. I was interested to note that the Scottish Government are returning to fortnightly payments and direct payments to landlords. We firmly believe that we should minimise the difference between the out-of-work welfare support system and the world of work to facilitate people’s transition into work. Few employers pay fortnightly and even fewer have a direct relationship with their employees’ landlords. We believe that our system, which still allows for alternative payment arrangements when required for vulnerable customers, is the right approach, but we appreciate that the Scottish Government have a different view. It will be interesting to see how the two approaches deliver. We shall see.
This Government’s record speaks for itself. Poverty is down, child poverty is down and the deficit is down. We had the fastest-growing G7 economy in 2016 and 2.8 million more people are now in work. We are all about a strong economy and a supportive, effective welfare system with work for those who can, help for those who could and care for those who cannot. Taken together, universal credit and our continued reform of Jobcentre Plus will provide the modern, effective and compassionate welfare system we need to continue to deliver on this promise: an economy and a society that work for all.
Jobcentre Closures: Glasgow
Debate between Damian Hinds and Chris Stephens(7 years, 11 months ago)
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The Minister for Employment (Damian Hinds)
It is a pleasure to see you in the Chair, Mr Hollobone. I congratulate the hon. Member for Glasgow South (Stewart Malcolm McDonald) on securing this debate. I also congratulate his colleagues who contributed: the hon. Members for Glasgow East (Natalie McGarry), for Glasgow Central (Alison Thewliss), for Glasgow North (Patrick Grady), for Glasgow North West (Carol Monaghan), for Rutherglen and Hamilton West (Margaret Ferrier)—I am glad that she has her voice back—and for Glasgow South West (Chris Stephens), who not only represents his Glasgow constituency but speaks for the Scottish National party from the Front Bench.
The Department for Work and Pensions delivers critical services and support to tens of thousands of customers across Scotland, England, and Wales every day, and our network of jobcentres is at the very heart of that. In all our constituencies, jobcentre staff are hard at work helping people to access the support they need and move into employment. As society has changed, so have our jobcentres. We have moved a long way from the caricature of jobcentres and the welfare system that was presented 20 years ago in films such as “The Full Monty” and “Trainspotting”.
Reforms such as universal credit are revolutionising the relationship between claimants and work coaches, ensuring that the support we offer is more personalised and better suited to claimants’ needs. That includes enabling claimants to access our services in ways that suit them. At the heart of reforms such as universal credit is a digitally focused approach that is more secure, more accessible and more efficient. The claimant count has dropped from almost 1.5 million in 2010 to around 800,000 now.
The background to this set of changes to the DWP jobcentre estate is that after 20 years, the private finance initiative contract that covers many DWP offices is nearing an end: it will expire at the end of March 2018. That provides us with an opportunity to review which offices we will need in the future, saving the taxpayer money while ensuring that our clients are able to access the support they need. When considering that question, our overriding priority has been the future services we will offer our claimants. In every case, we have sought to minimise disruption, moving existing jobcentres into nearby sites and co-locating with other services wherever possible.
The UK labour market is in the strongest position it has been in for years, but we cannot predict the exact path that it will take in the future. I reassure hon. Members that these changes will continue to ensure that we retain sufficient flexibility and spare capacity in the system. Let me be clear: our aim is to reduce floor space, not to reduce the workforce who are so important in supporting claimants back into work. Staff and services in jobcentres that are being closed are being transferred into nearby sites. In answer to the question asked by the Opposition spokesperson, the hon. Member for Wirral West (Margaret Greenwood), there are no planned job losses among jobcentre staff as a result of these closures.
When a jobcentre closes, the Department will consider what outreach services we can expand and what facilities may be suitable. The Department supports outreach activity at community and partner facilities right across the country, which allows our work coaches and partner organisations to support the shared needs of claimants. By working with a range of partners, including local authorities, we are able to expand the range and offer of our services. In Glasgow we work closely with organisations such as Anniesland College to offer such services, including helping claimants with their job search and offering benefit advice.
Chris Stephens
The Minister mentioned co-location and working with public sector partners. Now that we know that there was some discussion with Glasgow City Council about the Anniesland site, will he tell us whether there were any discussions with the council about the other seven sites earmarked for closure?
Damian Hinds
Through the course of this process, there have been many, many discussions about many, many potential options and permutations of site movements, co-locations and different sorts of arrangements. As we enter the consultation period, there is a further opportunity to talk about outreach facilities; no doubt some of those discussions will include consideration of local authority-run premises and so on. The process involves having lots of discussions about lots of potential ways of organising things.
For those claimants who are unable to attend a jobcentre because of their vulnerability, or because of the complexity of the transaction required with the Department, we have in place robust procedures. DWP Visiting undertakes home visits, or occasionally visits at an alternative agreed address, if appropriate. Travel expenses are refundable in certain circumstances, including when claimants are required to attend a jobcentre more frequently than every two weeks.
Damian Hinds
The hon. Lady asked about that in an earlier intervention, and I was coming on to address it, but as she has asked again I will answer now. Yes of course the consultation will consider the entire client population, including the particular needs and requirements of people with disabilities.
In certain circumstances, claimants are able to maintain their claim by post, including if they live more than an hour from the jobcentre, door to door, by public transport—I should say that right now I am speaking not specifically about Glasgow but about the general arrangements—or if they have caring responsibilities for a child and it is not possible for them to make arrangements for short-term childcare. Claimants can also chose to attend an alternative jobcentre to the one allocated to them if the one they have been allocated is not the easiest or least costly to attend.
Our jobcentres in the quarters of Glasgow have built up over time, primarily within large housing estates. If we look at employment trends, we can see that the claimant count in Glasgow has fallen from 24,200 in 2010 to around 13,500 today. The hon. Member for Glasgow East mentioned unemployment statistics from her constituency; she will know that the claimant count in Glasgow East is down 47% since 2010. As the count has dropped across the city, so has the use of some of the smaller jobcentres. In some cases, the change has been so dramatic that we are now using only 25% of the space we are paying for under the Private Finance Initiative contract that was agreed by the then Government back in 1998.
Our proposals seek to bring the smaller jobcentres together into larger existing sites in the same area, thereby reducing our rents and freeing up funding for our services while still ensuring that our claimants are able to access them. The reduction in sites in Glasgow is in line with our spending review 2015 announcement that we would reduce our overall estate by some 20%. The number of jobcentres proposed for closure reflects the prevalence of smaller jobcentres in Glasgow and the large amount of space we are underusing in the city. It does not reflect a cut in our investment. In fact, between April and September 2016, we recruited 122 additional work coaches in Scotland. That number is set to increase further over the coming months.
When deciding what changes to make, we have carefully considered the impact on our claimants, including travel times, about which several hon. Members asked. We feel that asking someone to attend a new jobcentre which is either less than three miles or less than 20 minutes by public transport away from their existing jobcentre is a reasonable ask. Many claimants already travel much further than that, as do many people in work to get to their place of work. There are three proposed closures in Glasgow that are outside those criteria: in Bridgeton, Castlemilk and Maryhill. In such cases, it is crucial that we fully understand the implications for our claimants before any changes are made, which is why we are holding a public consultation—as we do for all similar cases throughout the country—to seek the views of elected representatives, local authorities and community bodies.
Damian Hinds
I hope the hon. Gentleman will forgive me, but I want to respond to some of the points made by his colleagues. If it turns out that I have done so comfortably within the time remaining, I will of course give way.
Having heard the specific concerns raised by hon. Members present in the meeting we held a few days ago, I have decided to put the specific consultations we are discussing online. They were uploaded to the gov.uk website yesterday and will now run for an extended period, up until the end of January 2017. As I said, I recently had that opportunity to discuss matters with hon. Members directly, and I welcome the opportunity to take part in this debate. A number of points came up in the debate; I am not sure I will get through them all, but I shall try to get through as many as possible.
The hon. Member for Glasgow North spoke of worries that the changes may affect the positive relationships—I was encouraged that he called them that—between claimants and work coaches. I reassure him that one of the important things we are doing is to change the work-coach model to one where they have a mixed case load and can maintain contact with a client, even if the benefit they are on or their circumstances change. Making those relationships richer and longer lasting is absolutely with the grain of what we are trying to do.
The hon. Members for Glasgow East and for Rutherglen and Hamilton West mentioned having heard about this announcement through the press—we had an opportunity to speak about that last Thursday. I am sure that hon. Members understand that we are unable to share details about plans for specific sites until commercial negotiations are complete. To do otherwise would risk our negotiating position with the landlords of the sites we wish to retain. Once we have finalised our proposals, our priority is to speak to staff. As hon. Members appreciate, that can take time, because we also have to get to people who might be absent on the day. In this case, the Daily Record published the story at 9:30 in the morning, while many of our staff were still in the meetings, which had only started at 9.15 am. The Department put out a press release in response to the article—it did not initiate making an announcement before telling hon. Members—and later that day I wrote to all the MPs for affected constituencies.
Several hon. Members asked about engagement with the Scottish Government. The Department has been involved in discussions about the related issues, including co-location, with the Scottish Government, local authorities, Skills Development Scotland and others for some time. Because of the commercial sensitivities that I mentioned, it is not possible to talk about specific site proposals in advance of any announcements.
I regret that I am out of time. The rationale for the proposals is clear: we have seen a sharp fall in claimant counts in the city of Glasgow. There are no planned job losses for the jobcentre network in the city, which is important. We will continue to offer the full complement of support to help claimants back to work, and we have a clear set of outreach and support measures to be consulted on.
DRAFT Tax Credits (Income Thresholds and Determination of Rates) (Amendment) Regulations 2016
Debate between Damian Hinds and Chris Stephens(8 years, 8 months ago)
General CommitteesRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Damian Hinds
The 800,000 recipients are households, and the majority of them will be couples. The majority of those couples will be male and female couples. However, let us be clear, come the end of the tax year, whatever the income rise disregard and with or without today’s statutory instrument, their tax credit award will be adjusted downwards to take account of their higher income—by which time they may, of course, have become accustomed to what was to be a temporarily higher award.
The measure ensures fairness to the taxpayer, because a system of large income disregards unnecessarily increases costs. The Exchequer—hon. Members’ constituents— bears the cost of paying tax credit recipients a much higher award than they would get if their increased income were taken into account. Rather than continuing with that, the Government are taking action to make tax credits more responsive to income changes, which ensures that more claimants receive the entitlement that more closely reflects their actual income.
Real-time information will ensure that the changes to income can be identified earlier. From September 2016, the majority of claimants will be prompted to report increases of income to HMRC through a text message, voice message or letter, with the default action, in the event of non-response, that the award will be adjusted to reflect the income change. That will mitigate the likelihood of overpayments, and will make clear to claimants, in a fair way, their responsibility to report an increase in their income.
HMRC will provide information to those affected by the change, in tax credits renewals packs and updated guidance and notes to claimants, as well as in briefing lines for the tax credit helpline, to ensure that claimants are aware of the change and what it means for their tax credit award. The Government are committed to seeing the change implemented correctly, and are taking a considered approach to both the operational IT delivery and engagement with claimants, to ensure there will be a reduction in tax credit overpayments and the number of claimants falling into debt.
I will now answer some of the points raised by the Opposition during the debate. The hon. Member for Salford and Eccles asked about the rationale for the precise number, and we have had a similar discussion in previous debates. There is never one single magic number that can be applied to such a threshold.
As the hon. Lady said, the figure of £2,500 brings the design of the income rise disregard back to Gordon Brown’s original figure. It is a balance between on the one hand making sure that the system adjusts as quickly and smoothly as possible to someone’s rise in income—to reduce the fall they would otherwise experience at the end of the tax year—and on the other not having to make an administrative change, and change the tax credit award, when there is a very small increase, such as from an annual pay award or a small increase in hours. The big change compared with 2003 is real-time information. To answer the hon. Member for City of Chester, real-time information is already operational and has been since 2013. A lot of the debates he mentioned have happened, but it is an important part of the continuing development of our taxation system.
The hon. Members for Salford and Eccles and for Banff and Buchan mentioned people on zero-hours contracts. I think it is always worth repeating this point because sometimes one could get the impression from listening to the Opposition that people on zero-hours contracts are the overwhelming majority when they are not; something like 2.5% rely on a zero-hours contract. Some of those are coming back into the workplace, and some of them are students. On average, zero-hours contracts deliver 25 hours of work a week.
The important point, which also applies to later in the debate, is that tax credits are still based on an annualised estimate of income. It is not necessarily the case that every single time there is a change in someone’s hours in a particular month they will have to say that this year’s permanence level of annualised income has changed. Through the RTI system there is an opportunity for those on PAYE to be prompted to do so, and others still can do so. The point is what they expect their total annual income to be. That is what the tax credit architecture of the system is based on today. It has always been based on an annual view of income.
The hon. Member for Salford and Eccles also asked how we define no cash losers. It is very simple. People’s pay is going up, which is a good thing. Because the tax credits award cannot go down by more than the pay has gone up, therefore these people will be better off.
Chris Stephens (Glasgow South West) (SNP)
I have listened attentively to what everyone has said. We know that a large number of the Government’s employees are on tax credits. For example, the Department for Work and Pensions has 40% of its employees on tax credits. I ask the Minister whether any assessment has been done on what this proposed change would mean for the Government’s workforce.
Damian Hinds
I do not want to repeat myself as though I have nothing new to say. Those are people whose income is going up. This is good news for those people. The change is responding more quickly than would have happened anyway. That is a really important point. It is responding further and more quickly to that change in income, but their income has gone up.
There were quite rightly questions about the equalities impact. In response to the hon. Member for Brent Central, I have already talked about the proportion who are women. We have provided information to the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee. As with all secondary legislation, the Government take into account the equalities impact, as we are legally obliged to do.
I think I have dealt with the questions around fluctuating incomes in relation to zero-hours contracts and the introduction of real-time information. I also want to respond to the point about HMRC and operational efficiency. The hon. Member for Bristol South is right to raise those important points. HMRC’s performance has improved significantly this year, answering more than 90% of calls with wait times averaging under six minutes. Of course, we still want those numbers to improve; do not misunderstand me. It brought in additional staff to cover some of the busiest times, recruited some 3,000 more staff and put on additional training.
In conclusion, this change to reduce the income disregard to £2,500 is fair to claimants, reducing inequalities in the tax credit system, and it is fair to the taxpayer, reducing unnecessary cost. There are no cash losers because these are people whose pay is going up quite substantially. It will reduce the incidence of temporarily inflated awards because the system will respond sooner and further to people’s change in income. I commend the regulations to the Committee.
Question put.