Teesworks: Accountability and Scrutiny

Clive Efford Excerpts

Wednesday 7th June 2023 Commons Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities (Lee Rowley)]

It is, rightly, a long-standing convention that Opposition parties in this place have the opportunity to raise their concerns through debates such as this, to deal with the big issues of the day and to use the precious time of the House to articulate their vision for the future of this country. On these occasions, the Opposition can choose the subjects, the words they use, the allegations they make and the inferences they allow to be drawn.

So here we are today, having a debate about a blighted and costly site, with a massive price tag when industrial activity ceased, that is being transformed for the benefit of those who live and work nearby, in a region that is on the up. The debate is not about the achievements to date, or the failure of successive Labour Governments and Members of Parliament to improve the lives of people on Teesside. Instead, it is a debate about technicalities. It is not about whether a review will happen, look at these matters in depth or be led by independent experts, because all that will happen. Neither is it about whether the facts will be established, as was raised by the hon. Member for Wigan (Lisa Nandy), because they will be.

Instead, the Opposition have chosen to have a three-hour debate about the process by which a decision was made to have a review that is led by one group of people, instead of by another group of people. It is a debate about how we have chosen to set up a review, in the usual way that we choose to set up reviews rather than in the extraordinary way that the Opposition propose. The Labour party makes strange choices.

I want to say this, because it is important: the Government believe in the people and the places that make Teesside special. We have backed them with funding and powers to level up, which was sorely lacking under the 13 years of the previous Labour Government. That was why Ben Houchen was elected as Mayor in the first place. His record of attracting investment and delivering for the Tees Valley speaks for itself. In that spirit, he approached the Government some time ago about an independent review of the South Tees Development Corporation and the Teesworks joint venture after the hon. Member for Middlesbrough (Andy McDonald) had made serious allegations in the House, which he will not repeat outside the House. I want to make it clear now that, as previously stated, Ministers and officials have so far seen no evidence of corruption, wrongdoing or illegality.

[Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab)]

rose—

[Lee Rowley]

I give way to the hon. Gentleman, who can, perhaps, tell us precisely what corruption, wrongdoing and illegality he is alleging.

[Clive Efford]

I just want to point out to the Minister that what he is threatening my hon. Friend the Member for Middlesbrough with is a strategic lawsuit against public participation. We have had debates in this Chamber about SLAPPs; in fact, the Under-Secretary of State for Business and Trade, the hon. Member for Thirsk and Malton (Kevin Hollinrake), who is sitting next to the Minister, has supported action against them and their use to cover up the Londongrad fraud whereby illegal money has been washed through London banks and financial centres. The Minister should think very carefully before he comes here and threatens people with legal action outside the House to silence democratic debate.

[Lee Rowley]

There is absolutely no silencing going on. We are debating, we will continue to debate, and we have set up a review to ensure that we understand the allegations that have been made. It is perfectly legitimate for me to point out that the hon. Member for Middlesbrough refuses to repeat those allegations elsewhere, and for people to draw whatever conclusion they wish to draw from that. However, it is also clear that the allegations being made threaten to damage confidence in Teesworks and its success—hence the Secretary of State’s decision on 24 May to commission an independent review of the joint venture.

On the “Today” programme this morning, the hon. Member for Wigan was challenged with the observation that

“there is a danger that political parties throw about allegations of corruption”.

To that point no answer came this morning, and an answer certainly did not come in the opening speech. Now that the Labour party has chosen to allocate a significant amount of parliamentary time to this discussion today, it is incumbent on Opposition Members to spell out their specific concerns. They may have tried not to do that, but they need to state the allegations about which they are concerned.

We listened to a long speech from the hon. Member for Wigan, who set out a factual case about the events that happened in the order in which they happened, but made no comment about what element of concern she felt about each of them. There have been no specific allegations; nothing has been forthcoming except rumour, gossip and innuendo. Perhaps the hon. Lady does not wish to provide allegations, but Opposition Members have certainly alleged that this is the case.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Clarke]

The hon. Gentleman is completely wrong. Mr Cook voted for this structure and he cannot change that vote.

There is no credible suggestion that wrongdoing has occurred. Teesworks is double audited, first by Mazars and then by Azets, two separate auditors. There is then an audit committee for Teesworks. Here we come to the truly jaw-dropping fact that that audit committee is chaired by none other than Councillor Matthew Storey, the leader of Middlesbrough Council’s Labour group and the head of the parliamentary office of the hon. Member for Middlesbrough. He chairs that audit committee —what concerns has he raised? He is part of the audit structure that is now being cast into doubt.

It is noteworthy that in the speech by the shadow Secretary of State we heard nothing that amounted to a substantive allegation. We heard a series of inferences and questions that amount to nothing more than the same tittle-tattle that has characterised this process, with the exception of the allegation of industrial-scale corruption that has been made but never substantiated, because the hon. Member for Middlesbrough knows that he would be sued for libel if he repeated it.

[Clive Efford]

On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. Could you confirm the rules regarding declarations of interest? If a Member has a declaration of interest on the register, should they not refer to it when they stand up and take part in debates in this House?

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

It is up to each individual Member to determine whether their declaration of interest should be made during a debate. Clearly, processes are available should a Member not do so and other Members believe that they should have.

Oral Answers to Questions

Clive Efford Excerpts

Monday 5th June 2023 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

We now come to Clive Efford, who has the final question.

[Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab)]

Residents in Master Gunner Place in my constituency are still paying for a waking watch, despite a new fire alarm being introduced. These properties were built with major defects by Countryside Properties, and they are now owned by Samnas. I want to know what the Minister is going to do to take these people to task, because they are costing my constituents a lot of money, which should have been resolved before.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities (Lee Rowley)]

The hon. Gentleman will have seen that we have recently reopened the waking watch fund, but on the specific issue he has raised, I would be happy to meet him, because I also want to understand why this has not been removed as a result of the money spent.

Voter ID

Clive Efford Excerpts

Thursday 27th April 2023 Commons Chamber

[Rachel Maclean]

The hon. Gentleman makes a series of points that I do not accept. I do not recognise or accept in any shape or form the statements he has made on the Floor of this House that we are seeking to remove the right to vote. I think those were the words he mentioned. I remind him that 99% of young people already have a valid form of voter identification, and I have answered the question put to me on multiple occasions—it is just that Opposition Members do not like the answer.

[Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab)]

The Minister has said that people who are turned away at the desk by a qualified voting agent will have that fact recorded. However, if we are looking to understand what is going on as a result of the requirement for ID when voting, surely those people who are turned away by a meeter or greeter at the door must also be recorded, and it is important that the people doing that meeting and greeting are properly trained to do it? Will the Minister go away and give some thought to that point, which she has completely ignored? It will obfuscate any attempt to understand what is going on if people are being turned away at the door and not recorded.

[Rachel Maclean]

I have not obfuscated or ignored the point. I have been clear that the data on people who are turned away and who later return to the polling station with accepted ID will be recorded by a polling clerk or a presiding officer at the issuing desk. As has been discussed many times in this House, with the arguments rehearsed by many hon. Members, the greeters outside the polling station have an important role to play. However, I am sure that hon. Members can appreciate that, if someone decides not to exercise the right to vote, in a free and democratic society it is not for an agent of a local authority to ask intrusively why that person decides not to vote.

Building Safety

Clive Efford Excerpts

Tuesday 14th March 2023 Commons Chamber

[Michael Gove]

Absolutely. I want to be really fair to the hon. Member: he is doing the right thing. He has highlighted an abuse and has contacted the Department in a co-operative and detailed fashion. The Minister for Building Safety, my hon. Friend the Member for North East Derbyshire, has been looking closely at that case. There is more that we can do, and I thank the hon. Member on behalf of his constituents for being tenacious in trying to get a good deal for them.

[Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab)]

I have a Galliard development in my constituency, and my constituents will be concerned that Galliard has not signed. They would like to hear from the Secretary of State what that means for them. They have life-critical safety defects in the building, which is shocking, because that building construction was paused as a consequence of the tragedy at Grenfell, yet Galliard went on to develop a building that has those defects. What does today’s statement from the Secretary of State mean for my constituents who are waiting to hear from Galliard about the state of their buildings?

[Michael Gove]

This is a sad note on which to come to the conclusion of the statement, because Galliard is one of the companies that has been the most recalcitrant throughout, and I sympathise with the hon. Gentleman’s constituents. Other companies have done the right thing and have done so with a willing heart, but Galliard has held out—it has briefed against the Department and all the rest of it. Unless Galliard signs, it will face consequences, and its business model will be fundamentally challenged by the legislation that we in this House have passed. Ultimately, with a company such as Galliard whose owners, directors and investors are determined not to play ball, the consequences will come for it. I want to be clear with the hon. Member and this House that Galliard will face condign consequences if it does not act.

Voter Identification

Clive Efford Excerpts

Tuesday 21st February 2023 Commons Chamber

[Lee Rowley]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. Now is the time to ensure the successful delivery of this policy. Work is under way in the Department, the Electoral Commission and councils, and it is for all parties in this place to ensure that the people who vote for them are aware of the change of responsibilities coming in May, to ensure that they continue to do so.

[Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab)]

This Tory Government always lecture us about wanting to deregulate and not interfere in the freedoms and liberties of individuals as they go about their daily lives. All the independent research indicates that voter ID will disadvantage people who are least likely to vote Tory. What is it that attracted the Minister to this measure?

[Lee Rowley]

It is safeguarding the integrity of the ballot box for the long term, which the Labour party seemed to care about when it was in government in 2010. Its lack of care right now demonstrates its lack of interest in going into government in future.

Called-in Planning Decision: West Cumbria

Clive Efford Excerpts

Thursday 8th December 2022 Commons Chamber

[Michael Gove]

I am tempted to say that any tree that is hugged by my hon. Friend is a very lucky tree.

On the substance of the very important point that my hon. Friend makes, yes, in order to ensure that we have a transition to net zero we do need to reduce our reliance on a variety of different materials. However, as the inspector makes clear, and as my hon. Friend quite rightly points out, the economic benefits that this development brings to the north-west are also entirely consistent with our broader environmental ambitions.

[Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab)]

The right hon. Member for Reading West (Alok Sharma), the former President of COP, says that 85% of this coal will be exported. Is he wrong?

[Michael Gove]

The inspector makes it clear in his report that, by sourcing coal from this mine, there will be a beneficial effect in terms of greenhouse gas emissions.

Management of the Economy and Ministerial Severance Payments

Clive Efford Excerpts

Tuesday 15th November 2022 Commons Chamber

[Sarah Owen (Luton North) (Lab)]

Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. I am proud to respond to the debate on behalf of Labour. Despite what Government Members may say, this is an important debate. Why? Because it reflects the discussions being had around every kitchen table by parents with hushed voices behind closed doors so as not to worry their children. It is the sinking feeling that people are getting every time another bill comes through their letterbox. As we have heard throughout the debate, that is especially so with mortgages.

Under the Tories, we have seen next to no growth for the last 12 years and the economic picture is about to get worse. Over the next two years, the IMF predicts that the UK will see just a third of the growth of Canada and Japan, and less than half that of France and the US. The most recent GDP figures show the UK’s economy shrinking by 0.2%. We are teetering on the edge of what is predicted by some to be one of the longest and deepest recessions in history and, as my hon. Friend the Member for Bradford West (Naz Shah) rightly said, it is a problem made at No. 10. It is not a problem made solely by Russia’s war with Ukraine—if it was, surely every country would be enduring the levels of next-to-no growth that we have had to experience.

[Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab)]

My hon. Friend points out that this is a problem created in No. 10. On Thursday, after we have taken into account the reversal of the unfunded tax cuts that the mini-Budget put in place, the Chancellor will be dealing with the £30 billion gap left from that Budget, and taxpayers will have to pay for that in the months to come. On top of paying higher mortgages, therefore, people will be paying higher taxes because the Government frittered away £30 billion in a matter of weeks.

[Sarah Owen]

Unfortunately, my hon. Friend is absolutely right. As my hon. Friend the Member for Rhondda (Chris Bryant) has said, even an 11-year-old knows that the Tories “broke the money”. While our European neighbours are working with mortgage rates of about 2.2%, a two-year fixed-rate mortgage in the UK is currently 6.3%. What makes the UK so different from other countries to the extent that our mortgage rates are more than double those of France, Germany, Sweden and Norway? The list goes on. What they do not have to contend with, though—unfortunately, we do—is a Tory Government weighing down our country with more than a decade of stagnation and failure, a shockingly ill-judged mini-Budget and the distraction of scandal after scandal.

--- Later in debate ---

[Alex Burghart]

I will make just a little progress, but don’t worry—we have plenty of time.

In a debate like this, it is important to be clear and a bit careful. There are two things going on when we talk about the economy in general: the international situation and the effect of decisions made by the previous Administration. It is true that both have had an effect; Conservative Members accept that. The Opposition will know that, having heard what the Chancellor said in this House on 17 October and what the Prime Minister said on the steps of Downing Street on 25 October. Listening to many Opposition Members’ speeches this afternoon, however, one would be forgiven for thinking that they had either not heard those statements or completely chosen to ignore them.

The fact is that the Chancellor and the Prime Minister have accepted that mistakes were made in the previous Administration, but it is also the case that a very serious international situation is affecting all major economies. That is why the IMF expects one third of the world to go into recession. It does hon. Members on either side no credit not to acknowledge those facts.

The shadow Secretary of State, the hon. Member for Wigan (Lisa Nandy), talked about a £30 billion figure, but she was not able to identify the source of that analysis or how it was calculated. [Interruption.] From a sedentary position, the hon. Member for Luton North says, “Her brain.” No doubt the brain of the hon. Member for Wigan is very large, but it is not itself the source of the analysis. Were she to footnote her brain in a report, she would rightly be called up on it.

The motion, from which we have strayed repeatedly during the debate, is about severance pay, about mortgages and about an attempt to censure two Members of this House. As my right hon. and learned Friend the Minister of State made clear at the start, payments connected to the loss of ministerial office are defined in legislation that has been passed by Parliament and has been in effect for successive Administrations.

[Clive Efford]

The Minister asks where the figure of a £35 billion gap comes from. It comes from the Resolution Foundation, which states that £45 billion is attributable to the unfunded tax cuts. The higher interest rates account for £30 billion. Offset against the £29 billion for the mini-Budget U-turns and £11 billion for the lower interest rates, that leaves a £35 billion gap entirely attributable to the mini-Budget—a waste of £35 billion that taxpayers are going to be asked to pay for on Thursday.

[Alex Burghart]

I do not believe that the hon. Gentleman’s figures take account—

[Clive Efford]

Read what the Resolution Foundation says.

[Alex Burghart]

I certainly will, but I do not believe that the hon. Gentleman’s figures take account of the fact that many of the measures in that mini-Budget have now been reversed.

Levelling Up, Housing and Communities

Clive Efford Excerpts

Thursday 30th June 2022 Ministerial Corrections

The following is an extract from Levelling Up, Housing and Communities Questions on 27 June 2022.

[Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab)]

There are nearly 200,000 fewer council housing properties today than there were in 2010. How have a Government who are committed to levelling up allowed that to happen?

[Stuart Andrew]

Because we have given people the opportunity to become home owners for the first time in a generation. I am proud of the fact that we have done that, but my right hon. Friend and I are determined that we will do all we can with our £12 billion affordable homes programme to create more homes in constituencies such as that of the hon. Gentleman.

[Official Report, 27 June 2022, Vol. 717, c. 11.]

Letter of correction from the Minister for Housing, the right hon. Member for Pudsey (Stuart Andrew):

An error has been identified in my response.

The correct response should have been:

Oral Answers to Questions

Clive Efford Excerpts

Monday 27th June 2022 Commons Chamber

[Stuart Andrew]

My right hon. Friend has knocked on my door on many occasions to raise many of the issues that she has highlighted in her constituency. I would be happy to meet her again to talk about exactly what she has just raised with me.

[Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab)]

There are nearly 200,000 fewer council housing properties today than there were in 2010. How have a Government who are committed to levelling up allowed that to happen?

[Stuart Andrew]

Because we have given people the opportunity to become home owners for the first time in a generation. I am proud of the fact that we have done that, but my right hon. Friend and I are determined that we will do all we can with our £12 billion affordable homes programme to create more homes in constituencies such as that of the hon. Gentleman.

Levelling Up

Clive Efford Excerpts

Wednesday 2nd February 2022 Commons Chamber

[Michael Gove]

We absolutely will. I commend my hon. Friend for getting to page 235 of the White Paper so quickly.

[Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab)]

When he was Mayor of London, the Prime Minister commissioned a report that asked for more tax-raising powers and the ability to borrow money for London, but that was rejected. The current Mayor is asking for powers to be able to raise money. If London cannot pay for its transport system, which city in this country can? Why are the Government standing in the way of devolution in London? Is the Secretary of State not just cherry-picking schemes across the country and standing in the way of devolution in the same way that he is in London?

[Michael Gove]

No. There are two things. The first is that I had a good conversation with the Mayor of London yesterday. I stressed to him that we wanted to explore what potential there was for further devolution across all the mayoral combined authorities. There is a party political argument about the management of Transport for London which I will not revisit now, but simply saying that greater borrowing powers would solve all of London’s transport problems does not do justice to the scale of the issue. To be fair to the Mayor of London, I want to work with him in order to make sure that we can solve those problems.