Oral Answers to Questions

Clive Efford Excerpts

Thursday 24th November 2022 Commons Chamber

[Mr Harper]

My hon. Friend makes a very good point. The supply chain for HS2 and the spending benefits constituencies and constituents across the whole of the United Kingdom, including his and, indeed, mine.

[Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab)]

Before the pandemic, the rail services through my constituency suffered from chronic overcrowding, yet the Government used the pandemic as an excuse to cut peak-time services from my constituency without consultation of those rail users. What is he going to do to monitor the damage that he has done and to ensure that those services are restored when those trains get chronically overcrowded again?

[Huw Merriman]

Southeastern did indeed ask for a derogation to consult, and changes had to be made quite rapidly during the pandemic, although may I just say that, as a fellow user of Southeastern, the hon. Member will find that there are some benefits from that? It is not just about taking down some costs; it is also about simplifying the line structure, so that at Lewisham, for example, there will not be as many trains crossing. If he would just wait and see how matters progress, he and I might find that it has been a good timetable change after all.

Great British Railways

Clive Efford Excerpts

Monday 24th October 2022 Commons Chamber

[Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab)]

It seems to my constituents that improving efficiency involves cutting trains altogether; they cannot be late if they do not run. I have lost three peak-time train services on the Sidcup line that serves New Eltham and Mottingham and two peak-time train services in the morning at Eltham and Falconwood on the Bexleyheath line and at Kidbrooke. The Minister says that Southeastern is listening, but the reason it is not, as Southeastern told the scrutiny panel at Greenwich Council last week, is that it sought and got permission from the Department for Transport to make these cuts without consultation. Will the Minister go away and ensure that there is proper consultation and that we run train services that people actually want?

[Kevin Foster]

I thank the hon. Member for his points. As he will be aware, the process for changing timetables has been altered over the past couple of years, again, because of the radically changing demand during the pandemic. As traffic returns, we can see that it is not returning in a uniform way across the whole network. A quick look at some of the rail usage statistics would show that. But we do expect Southeastern to be responsive to the feedback that it is getting, although I take on board the fact that, particularly at peak times in London, there have been shifts in public demand.

Industrial Action on the Railway

Clive Efford Excerpts

Monday 20th June 2022 Commons Chamber

[Grant Shapps]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. She and the whole House will have noticed that while the Opposition were singing the praises of other parts of the Union, including what they call Labour Wales—I do not think it is Labour at all, but Labour runs the Administration—for not striking, they failed to mention that their own Mayor of London has had 53 days of strikes. The truth is that we need to move ahead with automated trains on parts of the London underground; the metro in Paris has them and it is time we got on with it here.

[Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab)]

Earlier, the Secretary of State waved around a document relating to 28 areas of reform that he thinks need to be implemented to modernise our railway. Has he stipulated that they must be agreed before rail operators can negotiate pay?

[Grant Shapps]

I will recount, but I think it was 20 areas, and no, I have not done that, but it is the kind of modernisation we would expect. For example, I was just looking at the list, and one working practice means that paysheets have to be done on paper, whereas it would clearly make sense to do them electronically. It would save a lot of time and a lot of money, and I cannot really see why anyone would be against it, but it is a working practice that is not allowed. I mentioned being able to move between different very similar roles but only where somebody is fully qualified, and those kinds of flexibilities in rostering do not exist.

It is pretty much like trying to run an orchestra for Network Rail, but it does not know who is going to turn up or which instruments they will bring, and it has no ability to tell them where to sit—and then it is supposed to make the railway run. We have to modernise our railways.

Rail Strikes

Clive Efford Excerpts

Wednesday 15th June 2022 Commons Chamber

[The Minister of State, Department for Transport (Wendy Morton)]

Let me start by thanking right hon. and hon. Members who have contributed to this very important debate, although I note the rather empty Opposition Benches and I contrast that with those on the Government side.

Given that we are just six days away from the biggest rail strikes in decades—strikes which will disrupt examinations, Armed Forces Day, NHS operations and huge cultural moments like the Glastonbury festival—it is perhaps not surprising that so many Members have been here to contribute today. I share the disappointment expressed by Members on the Government Benches that the RMT has called this industrial action. Strikes should be the last resort, not the first, and I truly believe that the RMT is thoughtlessly jumping the gun by striking when talks with the industry have only just begun.

Many people watching our proceedings today will be worried about next week. They will be worrying about how they will get to work, see their friends, or access vital public services. We have heard many examples of that from the Government Benches today. While we urge the trade unions to talk to us to find a solution, we are also planning for the worst.

[Clive Efford]

Will the Minister give way?

[Wendy Morton]

I want to make some progress first.

I assure the House that, together with industry, we are looking at how to keep vital freight, medicine and fuel running. We should be in no doubt, however, that if the strikes go ahead, they will cause huge disruption. That is precisely why the Government have tabled this motion today. We believe that it is important that we stand as one House—[Interruption.] I give way to my hon. Friend the Member for West Dorset (Chris Loder).

P&O Ferries

Clive Efford Excerpts

Monday 28th March 2022 Commons Chamber

[Robert Courts]

My right hon. Friend is absolutely right that there is no connection whatsoever between P&O Ferries and P&O Cruises. They are wholly separate organisations, separately managed. No blame whatsoever for the actions of P&O Ferries attaches, or should be seen to attach, to P&O Cruises.

[Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab)]

The chief executive of P&O came into this place where the laws of the land are made and told us that he broke those laws in a premeditated way. He went on to compound the situation by showing scant regard for safety measures on his ships, resulting in their being impounded. Knowing all that, does the Minister not think that the chief executive deserves to be summarily dismissed, and should the Minister not make sure that that is done immediately, regardless of any package that he will bring forward?

[Robert Courts]

I entirely share the hon. Gentleman’s state of shock at the statement that Mr Hebblethwaite made in front of the Select Committee last week. The Secretary of State and I also share the view that Mr Hebblethwaite’s position is untenable. We have told him that he ought to go, and I urge him to take that on board very seriously.

P&O Ferries and Employment Rights

Clive Efford Excerpts

Monday 21st March 2022 Commons Chamber

[Louise Haigh]

I very much agree.

[Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab)]

We all stand behind the P&O workers, because it is them today and it will be other workers tomorrow if we do not act. When, for so long, the Tories have stood against regulation that protects workers’ rights, and when they have pushed against the door of fire and rehire and kept it open, they cannot come here wringing their hands and say, “This is a terrible thing.” They have created the environment that has allowed these unscrupulous employers to walk through that door and attack those workers in that way.

[Louise Haigh]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. Successive Tory Governments have created the conditions that allow unscrupulous employers, such as P&O, to exploit that context. It is clear that the Secretary of State has serious questions to answer.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Secretary of State for Transport (Grant Shapps)]

I thank the hon. Member for Sheffield, Heeley (Louise Haigh) for bringing this debate forward. It is important that this should be fully discussed, although we have already had an urgent statement on the subject. The way in which those 800 loyal and experienced workers were treated by P&O Ferries last week was shameful and utterly unacceptable, after two years during which maritime staff faced significant demands and worked tirelessly to keep the country open and supplied us with vital goods, without which this country would not have been able to function. In my view—I am sure it is the view of the whole House—this is about having respect for employees, about employers having the common decency to engage with their workforce, particularly when times are tough, and about having standards that we would expect every single company in this country and every single employer to uphold.

Of course we understand the financial pressures that many businesses are facing right now. Regrettably, redundancies are sometimes inescapable, but there is no excuse for what we saw last Thursday. There was no consultation with the workforce and no consultation with the unions. To answer the hon. Lady’s question, the first I heard about it was at 8.30 in the evening, not through the memo, which I did not see, but instead through communication with my private office to indicate that P&O would be making redundancies the next day. The House may or may not be aware that, in 2020 during coronavirus and again in 2021, redundancies took place at P&O. In 2020, the numbers were larger than those we saw last Thursday. However, the company consulted properly about those redundancies, and they were made voluntary. So it was on that understanding that I had a conversation with the hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull East (Karl Turner) the next morning, in which he provided some on-the-ground information. Then, as colleagues will recall, I was standing at this Dispatch Box when I was passed a note about redundancies taking place. It was with considerable concern that I saw that the company was deploying those redundancies via a pre-recorded Zoom call, as the hon. Lady has said.

[Clive Efford]

The Secretary of State said that he did not know of P&O’s plans until 8.30 in the evening, but the shadow Secretary of State has indicated that the Government were aware of P&O’s plans before their public announcement. Can he confirm that that is the case, when that was, who had access to that information and what action they took on it?

P&O Ferries

Clive Efford Excerpts

Thursday 17th March 2022 Commons Chamber

[Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab)]

Other trade unions will be looking on at this, thinking that it is P&O workers today, and, if this stands, it is their workers tomorrow. Some of us with long memories can remember other flashpoints in industrial relations, such as Grunwick and the miners’ strike, which became very big disputes indeed. We do not want that around our ports. The simple way to avoid that and to avoid seeing workers being forced aside for the police to allow people through so that P&O can continue business as usual is to take business away from P&O at our ports. Have the Government considered that?

[Robert Courts]

As I said when I answered the shadow Transport Secretary, I have asked my officials to understand what level of contractual engagement Government have with P&O. I do not yet have that information, but that is under way as we speak. None the less, the hon. Gentleman draws a wider point around the importance of engagement. We do not want to see disruption, and we do not want to see any difficulties with industrial relations that cause wider problems. I have been absolutely clear that the way that workers have been treated today is absolutely unacceptable. P&O should have spoken to the unions. I have told it that it should be speaking to the unions. I do not think that it has done so, but I will certainly be doing so later today.

Oral Answers to Questions

Clive Efford Excerpts

Thursday 3rd February 2022 Commons Chamber

[Andrew Stephenson]

My hon. Friend remains a doughty champion of businesses in his constituency that will be affected by the proposals in the integrated rail plan. I would be more than happy to meet him again to discuss those proposals and the specific impacts on residents and businesses.

[Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab)]

Further to the issues raised by my hon. Friend the Member for Greenwich and Woolwich (Matthew Pennycook), south-east London is not served by the London underground, which means our constituents rely heavily on rail services. A station in my constituency where there has been a major redevelopment has seen a nearly 50% increase in footfall: there are 1.5 million entrances and exits a year. It is essential that capacity is maintained and increased on our rail services because of the lack of alternatives. May I impress that on Ministers who will make decisions on the franchise?

Great British Railways: Headquarters

Clive Efford Excerpts

Wednesday 24th November 2021 Westminster Hall

[Clive Efford (in the Chair)]

I remind Members that they are expected to wear face coverings when they are not speaking in the debate, in line with current Government guidance and that of the House of Commons Commission. Members are asked by the House to have a covid lateral flow test twice a week if coming on to the parliamentary estate, either at the testing centre in the House or at home. Please also give each other and members of staff space when seated and when entering and leaving the Chamber.

Cruise Industry

Clive Efford Excerpts

Wednesday 22nd September 2021 Westminster Hall

[Clive Efford (in the Chair)]

Before we begin, I encourage Members to wear masks when they are not speaking. This is line with current Government and House of Commons Commission guidance. Please give each other and members of staff space when seated and when entering and leaving the room.

[Royston Smith (Southampton, Itchen) (Con)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered the contribution of the cruise industry to the economy.

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship this morning, Mr Efford.

They say you don’t know what you’ve got till it’s gone, and perhaps that should have been the theme of the pandemic. In Southampton, as well as in many other ports around the country, that was never more stark than when we saw the empty berths where once many cruise ships were tied up while embarking and disembarking passengers. Cruise ships have created an ever-changing landscape in Southampton, as the many and varied ships rotate through the port, and when that was missing it was extremely noticeable.

Cruise operations are of huge significance to the UK’s economy. The port of Southampton is the home of the UK cruise industry and the leading cruise turnaround port in Europe. Last year, the majority of all UK cruise passengers passed through Southampton, with the port accounting for 83% of all cruise passengers in 2019. However, it is not the only port to benefit from cruise: Portsmouth, just down the road, Dover, Tilbury, Newcastle, Dundee, Edinburgh, Belfast and Liverpool all benefit from the revenue that cruise brings to their local economies. It is estimated that each turnaround visit for a cruise ship in Southampton brings £2.7 million to the local economy, and much of that will stay local. Its importance cannot be underestimated.

Southampton is like many post-industrial cities of the north, which is why you will hear me repeat that levelling up is not about geography but about opportunity. My constituents depended on manufacturing jobs, from shipbuilding to motor manufacturing. Southampton was the home of the famous Ford Transit van, but Ford, Vosper Thornycroft and Pirelli Cables & Systems are all long gone. That is why the port of Southampton and the cruise industry are so important to our economy and the employment prospects of my constituents.

In a port city like Southampton, one is never more than a few feet away from someone who makes a living from or has their standard of living enhanced by the cruise industry: from Solent Stevedores to the many taxi drivers, dozens of suppliers, Associated British Ports operators, students with jobs in hospitality and retirees working in the terminals during busy times—part time, full time, young and old. The cruise industry in Southampton is integral to our economic success.

However, it is not just our local economy that benefits from the cruise industry. Cruising brings in over £10 billion per year to the UK economy and supports nearly 90,000 jobs. In December last year, Cruise Lines International Association told the Transport Committee that pausing cruise operations between March and September 2020 resulted in £6.7 billion of lost expenditure and 52,000 job losses. Carnival Cruise Line alone employs over 1,100 people at its UK headquarters in Southampton and has over 2,000 British seagoing officers. That is not insignificant. We can calculate the economic benefits, but it is more difficult to put a price on the joy that cruising brings. In 2019, before the pandemic struck, nearly 2 million passengers passed through the port of Southampton alone. This figure is expected to grow to 4 million a year by 2050, and ports are already investing to take advantage of that growth.

Recently, the Under-Secretary of State for Transport, my hon. Friend the Member for Witney (Robert Courts), opened the port of Southampton’s fifth and latest cruise terminal, aptly named Horizon. The state-of-the-art terminal is fitted with more than 2,000 solar panels on the roof, generating more power than it uses, and it has shore power for ships to plug into while in port.

The demographic of the cruise market has changed. No longer is it the preserve of older people and wealthy pensioners; it is now the fastest-growing sector of the tourism industry and is particularly popular with families. During the efforts to restart cruise, the industry worked closely with the Minister and Government and welcomed the Prime Minister’s roadmap out of lockdown. Domestic cruises were permitted again from 17 May this year, and the cruise industry has gone on to demonstrate how safe it is and how prepared it was to resume its operations. It has introduced stringent measures to keep passengers and crew safe. The UK Chamber of Shipping published a covid-19 framework for the industry that made cruise ships the safest environment in the travel and hospitality sector. Those measures include pre-embarkation health checks, masks and social distancing, and guests are encouraged to use hand-washing facilities and hand sanitiser dispensers at venue entrances. Cruise ships also have excellent medical facilities, including intensive care units on most ships. All adult passengers are required to be double vaccinated, as are the crew. Although it was disappointing that the increase in covid infections last winter meant that cruises were unable to resume, the industry used that extended period to further improve its protocols, learning from the pandemic as it progressed.

While we understand and acknowledge the disappointment of those who saw their holidays cancelled during the pandemic, we should not overlook the awful time that crew have experienced. The depressing sight of cruise ships anchored off the south coast, visiting a port every few weeks to offload waste and take on fuel and supplies, will be one of the most enduring and disturbing images of the pandemic.

Many crew members have also found themselves disadvantaged by the loss of the seafarers earnings deduction. Seafarers are normally entitled to a deduction from their tax bill; however, this is linked to time spent at sea outside of the UK. Through no fault of their own, many failed to meet the required qualifying period. The Government will therefore benefit from a windfall to the detriment of our seafarers. That has caused some crew members to reconsider whether a job that requires them to be away from their families for prolonged periods is worthwhile at all. It is putting even more pressure on the recovering industry, and driving British sailors to overseas companies and competitors. Retention of existing seafarer professionals is not the only issue: recruitment is becoming a challenge too. One captain has said that without the SED, it is now hard to attract university graduates to embark on a seafaring career.

In conclusion—it does no harm to repeat this—the cruise industry is a UK success story, employing tens of thousands of people and contributing billions to our economy while giving the very best holiday experience to customers. I know that the Minister was as pleased as me to see the resumption of our nation’s fantastic cruise industry, and that he will continue to support it, as he has done throughout the most turbulent time in its history. I hope that he will use his influence with the Chancellor and the Treasury to secure a seafarers earnings deduction waiver, temporarily waiving the requirement to be outside the UK for a period of time in order to qualify. Our seafarers must feel valued for what they do, and receive recompense for the sacrifices they make in the way they would have had the pandemic not happened.