Business of the House

Christine Jardine Excerpts

Thursday 19th October 2023 Commons Chamber

[Penny Mordaunt]

I take these matters very seriously. Indeed, when I was International Development Secretary it was because of the regard that nations had for international humanitarian law that I was unable to unblock Hodeidah port and get aid into Yemen. These are very important principles and we must ensure that they are upheld. We as a nation must ensure that people understand that we place them at the heart of everything that we do.

What I would say to the hon. Gentleman, though, is that we need to be led by the facts in this case, and saying that Israel is collectively punishing Palestinians is quite wrong. In an earlier answer I gave quite detailed information about the framework that Israeli defence forces adhere to and the training that they undergo. He can look up previous conflicts and information that has been put out about how the Israeli defence forces conduct themselves, the care that is taken when undergoing targeting boards and the scrutiny that is applied to that, and the legal frameworks covering those things.

Hamas does not have the equivalent, and it is important that the language that we use in this place is correct and factual. There are extremely serious consequences in this country and across the middle east region of promoting information that is not correct. That is incredibly important. I know that the House of Commons Library will take its responsibilities seriously. This is a legitimate action that Israel is taking to defend its own security and defeat a terrorist organisation. We and other nations have stressed that that must be done according to international law and the principles that I set out earlier. The hon. Member has the Government’s assurance that we will not waver from that view.

[Christine Jardine (Edinburgh West) (LD)]

Over the recess, I met representatives of Dementia UK, a fantastic charity that is providing research, support and much needed hope for people suffering from this dreadful condition. It is currently working to provide more of its specialist admiral nurses in primary care settings, including in my city of Edinburgh, where there are 8,500 people currently coping with dementia. I was unable to put the question directly at questions this week, but could we please have a statement on the progress that the Government are making on dementia care under the major conditions strategy and their Dame Barbara Windsor mission, particularly with an emphasis on training and support for specialist dementia nurses?

[Penny Mordaunt]

I thank the hon. Lady for raising that incredibly important point and highlighting the work that that organisation does on research and, critically, care. She will know that it has been a priority for the Government under successive Administrations to ensure that we are having the current breakthroughs on new drugs, with the second drug that is able to combat this terrible disease, and that we have the best possible care across the UK. I shall ensure that the Secretary of State has heard of her desire to have an update on these very important missions.

Business of the House

Christine Jardine Excerpts

Thursday 14th September 2023 Commons Chamber

[Penny Mordaunt]

My hon. Friend raises an important point. He will know that we have published over £1.5 billion-worth of high needs provision capital allocations for the 2023 and 2024 financial years. This is a priority for the Government. As the Secretary of State will not be at the Dispatch Box for a little while, I shall ensure that she has heard the concerns that he raised.

[Christine Jardine (Edinburgh West) (LD)]

I thank the Leader of the House for confirming that we can have a sitting Friday on 20 October. One important private Member’s Bill, introduced by my hon. Friend the Member for Bath (Wera Hobhouse), deals with worker protection. It has secured cross-party support in both Houses and its importance was underlined this week with reports of sexual harassment suffered by female surgeons in the workplace. As it has now passed its final stage in the other place, with Government support, we need just half an hour to do the same in this place. Will the Leader of the House commit to a short window of Government time, if not on the sitting Friday then at the earliest possible time, to ensure that workers across this country have the protections that they deserve?

[Penny Mordaunt]

I congratulate all Members who have worked on that Bill, particularly on the cross-party work that they did to secure its passage through the other place when at one point it looked like it might be in jeopardy. I thank all hon. Members who did that, and the Government are very supportive of these efforts. The hon. Lady knows that I have just announced that, subject to the House’s agreement, we will be able to consider private Member’s Bills on 20 October. Our default position remains that, in accordance with the Standing Orders of this House, private Member’s Bills will take precedence on Fridays.

Privileges Committee Special Report

Christine Jardine Excerpts

Monday 10th July 2023 Commons Chamber

[Christine Jardine (Edinburgh West) (LD)]

The hon. Member is making a good point about the point at which what one person says impugns someone else. Does he agree that a good guide is often the harm principle? All of us in this place support completely, I think, the concept and the actuality of freedom of speech, but when that harms or is unfair to others, it has to be regarded as unacceptable in its effect. The freedom of speech to criticise the Committee to the point where that undermines the Committee, this House and, by its nature, democracy is unacceptable.

[Richard Fuller]

The hon. Lady makes a fair point, although I have two contentions with it. First, on the specifics, the point I was making is that the determination of whether that constitutes harm is put in a report by the people concerned, which then comes back here for us to support, so there is very little review. Secondly, an interesting underlying issue is that we are living through a period when harm is being interpreted differently. The way that people who are much younger than me appreciate how harm is done is different. The amount they are prepared to take on themselves—rather than to say, “Well, that’s just the way the world is,” and not to see it as harm—is much less than it was in my day. That might be a good thing or a bad thing, but it is different for different generations. That is another aspect of how to assess what is harmful, and we are going through such a fluid period that it is difficult.

But the hon. Lady is right: ultimately, I think we would agree, the message today, at the core of this, is to use temperate language. When I came back to the House in 2019, one thing I noticed was how much more coarse political discourse had become in just the two-year period that I was away. It was not just because of the divisions over Brexit or social media; it was also because we were tolerating it. We have a responsibility in this House to oppose that. That is why it is good when we talk across the divide in this House and find agreement, and why that Committee, in cross-party agreement among individuals, was something that we could rely on. The lesson is about using temperate language.

I share the concerns of my colleagues about some of the recommendations. Not only are they difficult to see working in practice, but there will be chilling effects on free speech. We will have to see whether that is the case. I am not defending what was said; I just worry that someone like me, who does not know the law or “Erskine May”, will feel that there are certain things that I may not be able to say, but which perhaps in the past I was —although there are perhaps ways to give reassurances on that.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mrs Natalie Elphicke (Dover) (Con)]

I start by agreeing with my right hon. Friend the Member for New Forest East (Sir Julian Lewis) in relation to his comments on my hon. Friend the Member for Broxbourne (Sir Charles Walker), who is currently not in his place. I have to agree that he is one of the kindest, finest and fairest Members in this place, and we should be so pleased that he has served on this important Committee.

I was not going to speak today, but, at the weekend, I spoke to constituents about the weighty matters before the House today. They said to me that, as the Member for Dover and Deal, I should speak up. That is because our white cliffs stand for freedom—freedom of expression, democracy, and our fundamental British values. They said to me that they felt that this House had lost its way. They said that the very idea that a Member of Parliament could be gagged or censured for saying what they thought on a matter was the type of thing that could happen in Russia or Beijing; it is not something that they thought could ever happen here. That tells me that my constituents think that this Committee has overreached itself. The implications of such overreach can only be toxic to our democracy. That reminded me that whether or not it is my wish to speak today, it is certainly my duty to stand here and say that what is happening is wrong and unconstitutional.

[Christine Jardine]

The hon. Lady reminds me of something I learned as a very young reporter—that the Members of this place have the very rare privilege of having absolute privilege over what they say, in this place. As an older journalist, I had the honour of teaching that to younger journalists, who respect the fact that we have absolute privilege over what we say. Would she not agree that we should respect that and that it if we abuse it, that is unacceptable? That is what we are discussing here today—the fact that hon. Members have abused the absolute privilege that they have and undermined the processes of the House.

[Mrs Elphicke]

I thank the hon. Lady for her intervention; abuse of privilege is something I will be addressing very shortly.

The Privileges Committee and the Standards Committee are Select Committees of this House. That is the constitutional position, and I was grateful to my right hon. Friend the Member for Staffordshire Moorlands (Karen Bradley), the Chair of the Procedure Committee, for setting out the position of the Committee so clearly earlier. I thank her for that.

As every Member knows, the Select Committees are a political construct. They are political in their nature and they come to political decisions. Debates and votes in this Chamber are political—because that is what we do. We are politicians. That is what we are sent here to do. The job of a politician has no professional standing or qualification, neither is it a trade. It has a no entry requirement—not even maths or English GCSE—because we are the Commons. We are the most base and broad range of people, from all walks of life and all types of characters. From the very charismatic to the downright dull, all can stand, and the people decide whether or not they want us to represent them and their interests. That is what it means to be a Member of Parliament.

Make no mistake: today’s decision, like any other Select Committee report or recommendation that is brought to this House for us to decide, is political, and the vote at the end of this debate will be political too. Should the motion be pressed to a vote, we will see all of the Opposition together in the same Lobby—the SNP, the Liberal Democrats and Labour—and we should have no illusion about the politics going on here, as we have heard in the opening remarks of those on the Opposition Front Benches.

To be a politician, at its very core, is to debate, to explain, to agree or to disagree. That is what we are elected to do. We are not elected to sit in some sort of pretend court of law. As has been found throughout history, when the Commons goes down the route of censuring or expelling Members for partisan political purposes, it invariably damages Parliament itself.

I will point to a very famous example of that, the Middlesex by-election fiasco that saw the repeated expulsion of John Wilkes, against the will of the people, who kept voting him in. Let me remind the House what the “Encyclopaedia Britannica” has to say on the subject:

“Wilkes was finally expelled on inconclusive precedents and by a method undoubtedly fraught with danger to the constitution since it set aside in the name of parliamentary privilege the right of the elector to choose his representative”.

There is a concern that what is happening with the current Privileges and Standards Committees is not just overriding the right of the electorate to choose their representatives, but, chillingly, limiting what that Member can say.

It has been said on several occasions during this debate that the Privileges Committee is a properly democratically constituted Committee of the House, so let me address that. First, it is not. It is one of the very few Committees of this House whose Chair has not been selected by contested or secret ballot and whose members are not voted on by each party in the usual way, following the Wright Committee reforms. As such, I feel that this Committee has less legitimacy and democratic accountability than other Select Committees, not more.

The Committee should be reformed. It is a time for reform of how it is selected and how it operates, so that it can have the same legitimacy and democratic accountability as other Select Committees enjoy, following the Wright reforms. That reform work is incomplete and we are seeing its failings through problems of due process and otherwise.

Secondly, let me address the issue of questioning and debate. If anybody criticised the work of the Levelling Up, Housing and Communities Committee, on which I sit, I would not be seeking to censure, name and shame, or even expel them from the House; I would debate them, because it is a political report and it is a matter of political debate. Open political debate is a fundamental British value and fundamental to our way of life and democracy.

Thirdly, I turn to the issue of accountability—or lack of accountability. In this place, we have two Select Committees, the Privileges and Standards Committees, as well as the internal grievance process, all of which have had raised fundamental flaws in natural justice, due process or bias. Without the ability to challenge injustices, with the reports going through on the nod, as some Members seem to prefer, these Committees could continue unchallenged and unchanged. That surely cannot be what any of us would want.

The issue of accountability is particularly important, because the work of this Committee directly affects the representation of the people. As such, it must be open to being held more accountable than other Select Committees, and not seek to be less accountable than it should be.

Finally, let me address the responsibility that each of us in this House has for our how behaviour and leadership affects other people. This issue matters more widely, because how we lead, or mislead, in this place is followed by companies and organisations across the country. Failures or perceived failures to follow natural justice or due process, acting with bias or punishing by using sweeper clauses on disrepute or reputational matters, give the green light to big businesses and other private sector employers to do likewise.

Up and down the land, people are losing their jobs, their reputations and their savings, and sometimes their families and homes, because of a lack of natural justice, due process, fairness or impartiality in their workplaces, where big businesses and organisations simply abuse their power to achieve the end that they wanted all along. They think it is okay and that they are unaccountable, and they may even think that they are following the example of this place. I say this to the House in conclusion: it is not okay and it can never be acceptable. It does not just happen within this place.

What happens in this place ripples out, so that other people in other walks of life— our constituents—may not get a fair hearing, due process or fair treatment, or may be gagged from speaking up for themselves in the face of grave injustices in their lives and workplaces. I was elected here to defend those constituents and to defend our British values, and that is how I will exercise my political and democratic vote today, to vote against this report.

Business of the House

Christine Jardine Excerpts

Thursday 29th June 2023 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

I call Christine Jardine as the Lib Dem representative.

[Christine Jardine (Edinburgh West) (LD)]

First, I associate myself with the remarks that have been made about Craig Brown. In my previous career as a journalist, I was fortunate enough to meet Mr Brown on several occasions. He was a gentleman and our thoughts are with his family.

A recent report by Shelter revealed just how bad homelessness has become in Scotland’s four main cities, with Edinburgh being the worst case. Figures show that 5,000 people are living in temporary accommodation, including more than 2,000 children. That is a tenfold increase since 2002. Given the shortage of financial support from the Scottish Government for local authorities and the fact that homelessness is not confined to Scotland, is the Leader of the House willing to set aside time for a debate on how we can kick-start a co-ordinated approach with agencies to tackle this growing problem, and on how we can increase the number of social houses and the financial support available to local authorities?

[Penny Mordaunt]

I thank the hon. Lady for raising this important matter. As she knows, we have provided more than 2.2 million additional homes and delivered 632,600 affordable homes since we came to office. We have also helped many people take that step on to the property ladder. However, this is about not just housing supply but a whole raft of challenges that individuals and families face, and I know that this is a concern to many Members across the House. I am very happy to make sure that the Department has heard her call for time on the Floor of the House, and her plea has also been heard by the Chair of the Backbench Business Committee, the hon. Member for Gateshead (Ian Mearns), who is sitting behind her.

Privilege: Conduct of Right Hon. Boris Johnson

Christine Jardine Excerpts

Monday 19th June 2023 Commons Chamber

[Christine Jardine (Edinburgh West) (LD)]

The hon. Lady made the very good point that the Prime Minister at the time was not the caretaker of No. 10. However, he was the caretaker of the nation’s health, the nation’s wellbeing and the nation’s trust. In that, he let people down and he misled this House, and that is why the report came up with the conclusions that it did.

[Lia Nici]

I do not agree. I am from Grimsby and I can only say it as I see it. I saw on the day that the report was published that Boris Johnson had not been aware of the parties that had been going on.

--- Later in debate ---

[Christine Jardine (Edinburgh West) (LD)]

I rise to speak in support of the Committee’s report. I thank the Committee and its members for all the work they have done in protecting us and our privilege in the work that we do for our constituents, as the Leader of the House pointed out earlier.

Many of us, I am sure, hope that this will be the final act in one of the most disreputable episodes in British politics for many years. At that time, the country was looking to its premier elected politician—its Prime Minister—to lead us through the most difficult and traumatic of times, which I hope we never have to endure again. Lives were lost; lives were interrupted for two years; young people could not sit their exams, complete their education or start employment; people lost loved ones. The people of this country were looking to this place and the rules it was making, which were being announced from No. 10, and trusting that everything was being done in their best interests. They were following those rules and having faith in those who had set them.

I believe this is a day not for party politics, but for us all, wherever we may sit in this place, to recognise the significance of supporting the report, the moment for us and our constituents, and, as others have said, our democracy. In criticising the Committee and rejecting the validity of its conclusions, Mr Johnson attacks each of us and what we believe in. He shows contempt for the people whom we serve, and whom he purported to serve. He undermined perhaps the most intangible, and yet invaluable, foundation of our democracy: trust and confidence that our politicians, who have been voted for, tell us the truth in everything they do, and in everything they say that we, the public, must do in difficult times.

The Leader of the House talked about the real-life consequences of what we decide today and I believe that they cannot be underestimated. When we return to our constituencies from this place, our constituents will be looking to us to see how we have stood up for them, defended them and protested at the way in which they were let down by the incumbent of No. 10. They will look to us to recognise what they endured—the sacrifices that they willingly made.

Each one of us carries the title “honourable” or “right honourable”. If it is not to become a meaningless sobriquet in the 21st century, we have to live up to that today in what we decide and in what we do. The only way that we can do that is by supporting the Committee, the work that it did, the evidence that it considered and the conclusion that it came to. The honour of this House and of this democracy is at stake and we cannot risk that.

Business of the House

Christine Jardine Excerpts

Thursday 18th May 2023 Commons Chamber

[Penny Mordaunt]

I thank the hon. Lady for raising that important matter. Not only are regular exams crucial for ensuring good oral health; they can also detect other health conditions that need to be dealt with early. This problem has been exacerbated by the pandemic, with children and vulnerable and looked-after children in particular not getting check-ups. She will know that this issue has been a priority for the Minister responsible. In addition, the Health Secretary has created a mechanism so that we can see and compare what care boards are doing. That is an incredibly valuable tool. I have been talking to him about how Members in this place can access that data on a real-time basis and I will make sure that he has heard the hon. Lady’s comments today.

[Christine Jardine (Edinburgh West) (LD)]

The discussion in this place and in public about the controversial proposals for highly protected marine areas has rightly focused so far on the potential impact on fishing and coastal communities, in Scotland, in particular. I was reminded by the Scottish Government’s policy paper that:

“It is intended that no new renewable energy projects will be allowed in an area designated as a HPMA. This includes exploratory activity or construction of new infrastructure.”

May we have a statement on whether the UK Government are aware of the potential implications in this reserved area and whether any discussions are ongoing with the Scottish Government about it?

[Penny Mordaunt]

The hon. Lady is right that there are concerns about the scheme. Understandably, we tend to focus on the impact on coastal communities and they have been very vocal in their concerns. However, there are other implications, which is why we need to ensure that, when such schemes are proposed, there is proper consultation and engagement with all communities and all parties. Clearly, we would hope that there are ambitions for energy generation; that is certainly what the Scottish Government say. These are matters for them, but I know that the hon. Lady and my Conservative colleagues will do everything they can to make sure that all voices are heard and that this scheme makes sense.

Business of the House

Christine Jardine Excerpts

Thursday 11th May 2023 Commons Chamber

[Chris Stephens (Glasgow South West) (SNP)]

rose—

[Christine Jardine (Edinburgh West) (LD)]

rose—

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

I did toss the coin, Mr Stephens, and you won.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Deputy Speaker]

Last, but definitely not least, I call Christine Jardine.

[Christine Jardine]

Thank you very much, Mr Deputy Speaker, although I do find my concerns about gambling now reinforced.

May I add my congratulations to the Leader of the House on the manner in which she conducted her role in the coronation last weekend? I also welcome the reassurances that she gave earlier on the Government’s commitment to animal welfare. However, the lack of progress of the Animal Welfare (Kept Animals) Bill has provoked a lot of concern both from my constituents and the Dogs Trust, which was here just this week. I raised the timescale that we now face and this lack of progress in Environment, Food and Rural Affairs questions back in February. Can the Leader of the House give us any reassurance today that the Bill will come back in time and be heard?

[Penny Mordaunt]

The hon. Lady knows that I will say that I will announce forthcoming business in the usual way, but I can reassure the House that the Government remain committed to those measures. They were in our manifesto and we have every intention of delivering them.

Business of the House

Christine Jardine Excerpts

Thursday 30th March 2023 Commons Chamber

[Penny Mordaunt]

My hon. Friend is speaking to a Member of Parliament for Portsmouth, which is the home to the Mary Rose Museum, so she is preaching to the choir. The subject is incredibly important, and underwater cultural heritage can be an important source of economic regeneration to areas. I would be interested to hear about my hon. Friend’s plans for the London. Many wreck sites are protected and many are grave sites as well, so raising the wrecks is not necessarily the right thing to do. I will make sure the Minister has heard her ambitions in this area; the next Department for Culture, Media and Sport questions will be on 27 April.

[Christine Jardine (Edinburgh West) (LD)]

Many of us in this place and in my constituency of Edinburgh West get a little tired of Scotland’s economic and other issues always being addressed through the narrow, negative prism of the Scottish National party. We would like to discuss the benefits and the positives of the Union, not just for Scotland but for all four nations of the United Kingdom. Will the Leader of the House consider setting aside Government time to have a debate on the benefits of the Union and how it can be used positively to address the issues of all four constituent nations?

Business of the House

Christine Jardine Excerpts

Thursday 23rd February 2023 Commons Chamber

[Penny Mordaunt]

I thank the hon. Lady for raising that important point. She will know that I cannot comment on what is in the Budget, but I shall make sure the Chancellor has heard her concerns, and I am sure she has made representations to him. She will know that we are focused on particular aspects of healthcare at the moment, to ensure that we have the diagnostics we need to reduce waiting lists, but she is right: public health is key to this. It is absolutely key to prevention, which will be a fundamental part of ensuring a thriving NHS into the future, and I shall make sure the Secretary of State has heard her concerns.

[Christine Jardine (Edinburgh West) (LD)]

The Edinburgh international festival is world renowned, but last year it shrank in size for the first time in seven decades. The King’s theatre in Edinburgh, which is in a neighbouring constituency, is facing a shortfall of £9 million. Its owners have described it as being in “the last chance saloon”, and it failed to get levelling-up funding last time round. The cultural life of Edinburgh is a massive contributor to the health of the Scottish economy and the UK economy. Does the Leader of the House think it would be appropriate to make time for a debate in this House on how the UK and Scottish Governments can contribute to the future stability and wellbeing of this vital industry?

[Penny Mordaunt]

I am very sorry to hear about the plight of that particular venue. The hon. Lady will know that we have Department for Culture, Media and Sport questions on 9 March, and I encourage her to raise the issue with the Secretary of State. The levelling-up scheme was hugely over-subscribed, but officials and Ministers will be meeting colleagues who did not have a bid granted in this round to look at what more can be done for the venues and projects concerned, or to improve the bid so that it is successful in future rounds. However, I understand the time concerns that the hon. Lady has, and I shall make sure that the Secretary of State knows about them.

Business of the House

Christine Jardine Excerpts

Thursday 12th January 2023 Commons Chamber

[Penny Mordaunt]

I thank my hon. Friend for raising this important issue. Whatever the merits or otherwise of setting up such a scheme, to do it at a time when businesses are recovering from a pandemic—this obviously affects not only businesses in London, but also those in surrounding areas, with tradesmen and others who will be coming in for materials or to do jobs, and I know it has had a hugely detrimental impact on many firms. I will raise the issue with the Secretary of State, but I encourage my hon. Friend also to raise it at Transport questions on 19 January.

[Christine Jardine (Edinburgh West) (LD)]

I wonder whether the Leader of the House would consider giving time to a problem that affects many families in my constituency—indeed, in every constituency in the country—but which we have no way of gauging or recording, so we do not know its scale. On the death of a parent, we do not record at any point that there may be a child who is grieving.

I know from personal experience and from my sister’s experience that, no matter how stable the family, how supportive the family network and support system or how well the child appears to be coping with that grief, they may need support. Winston’s Wish tells me that there is no way of knowing how many children are bereaved at the moment. It would be simple to resolve that if, along with every death, we recorded whether there were dependent children. They will need support. It is not something that goes away with growing up, and they will need the most support at the point at which they are bereaved. Could we find time in the House to consider a way of ensuring that we know where these children are? If they have not previously been in touch with social services, we have no way of ensuring that they get the help they need.

[Penny Mordaunt]

The hon. Lady raises a very good idea. I know that other Members of the House have been campaigning on ensuring that people in general have more support and that, whether it is the state or those wonderful organisations in the third sector who support families, we can really tailor support to those people. I encourage her to raise it directly with Ministers, but I will also ensure that they hear what she has said.