Business of the House
Chris Leslie Excerpts(4 years, 8 months ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Mr Rees-Mogg
I am grateful to my hon. Friend for his point. It would indeed be a historic occasion if an EDM were actually something serious that could be given proper consideration.
Mr Chris Leslie (Nottingham East) (IGC)
In a supreme act of petulance, even though the Leader of the House and the Government got the Second Reading they so craved, they are now deciding that they are so fed up with this—their determination to put a border in the Irish sea is such—that they are just going to ram this Bill through in extra-unusual, atypical time when there is no time pressure requiring them to do so. Will we be able to table amendments before 10 am tomorrow? Will we have sight of the Bill? How on earth can this be a way to effectively repeal such a key constitutional piece of legislation?
Mr Rees-Mogg
It is not repealing a key constitutional piece of legislation; it is amending that piece of legislation to allow, under these exceptional circumstances, for an early general election to take place. That is a perfectly normal legislative process. We legislate to amend Bills and Acts of Parliament the whole time. This is not petulant; it is a decision that has been come to reluctantly because the House will not come to a conclusion, and this House has to come to a conclusion. We have been arguing for three and a half years about this subject in trying to deliver on Brexit—on what the British people voted for. This Government are determined to ensure that that happens, but in a general election others will put forward their case. The hon. Gentleman can try his luck at putting forward his case and will be able to see how well he does.
Mr Speaker
Tabling is one thing; selection for a separate decision is another. If the hon. Lady has a concern about the latter, which I think she has and am advised that she has, then she can table an amendment accordingly in an attempt to protect that potential for separate decision. This has all happened very quickly, but I am sensitive to what the hon. Lady has said, and a view will have to be taken by the Chair as to what is orderly and in the interests of Members of the House.
Mr Chris Leslie (Nottingham East) (IGC)
Further to that point of order, Mr Speaker. There is, in a sense, a developing theme here. I do not know whether you have had sight of the Bill. The Table Office has had no sight of the Bill. The Leader of the House has beetled off, so we cannot ask him about these things and he has not said when the Bill will be available. If proceedings are to start tomorrow at 11.30 am, at what point will hon. Members have the opportunity to actually see the clauses that we are being invited to supposedly amend with only a couple of hours’ capability to do so? May I urge you, Mr Speaker, to please make representations to the Government that they publish the Bill this evening, so that at least we can digest it overnight and try to figure out out what potential there is for amendment and where that is necessary? I cannot remember, in all my time since coming into Parliament in 1997, a Bill being not available the day before being rushed through in this way. I do not know whether you can recall such a circumstance, Mr Speaker.
Business of the House
Chris Leslie Excerpts(4 years, 9 months ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Mr Rees-Mogg
If there were a will to get the Bill through, it could of course be done. Yes, my hon. Friend is absolutely right, and it would satisfy the European Union. It would get the deal done; we would have left; and we could do it by 31 October, and that is what we should aim to do.
Mr Chris Leslie (Nottingham East) (IGC)
I wonder if the Leader of the House is familiar with what is known as the wash-up between when an election or a Dissolution is announced and when Parliament then stops. It is normally a time when, through the usual channels, Bills that remain are carved up because they are not controversial. But his attempt to use that period to basically seek a carve-up of the momentous future of generations to come with this Brexit settlement—which, by the way, should never have got a Second Reading but did—is an abuse of the procedures of this place.
Mr Rees-Mogg
I am sufficiently familiar with the wash-up to understand what it actually means and what it is for. At the end of a Session, normally of a year or more, Bills that have completed a lot of their passage are concluded. This Session has only begun. There is no washing-up to be done; the cupboards are full of clean crockery.
Business of the House
Chris Leslie Excerpts(4 years, 9 months ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Mr Chris Leslie (Nottingham East) (IGC)
This is a question to the Leader of the House, as part of the business statement. Will he listen to lots of the voices, from different perspectives on the Brexit question, who are all puzzled why he and the Prime Minister have chosen not to enter into a continuation of the Committee stage tomorrow or on Thursday? It would be perfectly in order for them to have scheduled that, by laying those motions either this evening or at the beginning of business tomorrow. There is a jovial atmosphere this evening, but a lot of people are frustrated—not least me, as I have some amendments that are first up in that Committee stage, whenever it occurs—believing it is the choice of the Leader of the House and of the Prime Minister not to be progressing this Bill tomorrow or on Thursday. They are therefore the architects of their own fate in this regard, and forever more when people ask why this Bill did not make progress before 31 October we will be able to say, “It was his own doing.”
Mr Rees-Mogg
It is always a pleasure to listen to the hon. Gentleman’s dulcet tones, which we had the joy of doing last night, at considerable length. I am sorry that his amendments will not be debated now, and that instead right hon. and hon. Members have to listen to me. Had he voted for the programme motion, he would have found that his amendments were being debated. He talks much about listening, but I think he did not listen to my opening comments about the interaction of Standing Orders on the business that we had before us today. Under Standing Order No. 83A, if a programme motion that commits a Bill to the Floor of the House is lost, that Bill is then committed to a Committee, and we would have to have another resolution to pull it out of Committee. So it is not possible just to proceed tomorrow as if nothing had happened.
Business of the House
Chris Leslie Excerpts(4 years, 9 months ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Mr Speaker
I can see that the hon. Gentleman wishes to contribute to the exchanges on this matter. He does not have to do a salute.
Mr Leslie
Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. I was clearing my throat at that particular moment. I am grateful to have caught your eye.
This may look like an innocuous motion from the Government, essentially suggesting that hon. Members, prior to Second Reading, should be allowed to table amendments for the Committee stage, but these are highly unusual circumstances and this motion relates to probably one of the most momentous pieces of legislation that has happened certainly in the last 50 years. It is of course preferable to give hon. Members as much time as possible to table amendments for the Committee stage and potentially for the Report stage, although there is normally an intervening period between the Committee stage and the Report stage.
For the benefit of the House, I want to highlight that, as far as I know, the programme motion for this Bill has not yet been published, although I have heard some quite frightening rumours about what the programme motion is likely to look like. One suggestion I have heard—I invite the Leader of the House to disabuse me of this—is that, as well as seeking Second Reading tomorrow, the Government also intend to commence the Committee stage and have a number of hours in Committee tomorrow.
Mr Speaker
Order. I very gently interrupt the hon. Gentleman to say that that information was divulged, and therefore this prospect was foreshadowed, in the business statement that the Leader of the House delivered earlier, so it is not something on which we need to dilate further.
Mr Leslie
I am very grateful, Mr Speaker. I may not have been in the Chamber at that moment in time, but I am still quite shocked at the idea of having the Second Reading take place and then moving straight on to the Committee stage on Tuesday—tomorrow. The reason this is relevant to this motion today is that the House is expecting Members to frame and draft amendments to a Bill that we have not yet had the opportunity to see. It has just this preceding moment received its First Reading. The time is now 7.41 pm, and we are expected to table amendments for a Committee stage that will take place tomorrow—I think on clauses 1 to 4 of the proposed Bill.
While this motion is, I think, absolutely the minimum required, it is worth reflecting on the appalling notion that this Bill is going to be rammed through in this way and in this particular fashion. I say this for a very good reason. Many hon. Members will remember—the Leader of the House is too young, possibly, to remember many of these things—that the practice when considering legislation that amends aspects of European treaties has quite a long pedigree. The House of Commons Library has rather helpfully produced a briefing paper about the parliamentary process of Bills in respect of EU treaties. We know that the Commons Committee stage on the treaty of Rome was not three days or two days, but 22 days; for the Maastricht treaty, 23 days; for the treaty of Lisbon, 11 days; for the treaty of Amsterdam, five days; for the Single European Act, four days; and for the smallest of them all, the treaty of Nice, three days. In total, there were five days of Commons consideration for the treaty of Nice reform.
This is an unprecedentedly short period of time to dedicate to a massive and momentous piece of legislation. Personally, I am very worried that the motion we are now debating is the first in a series of attempts by the Government to presage what is essentially the ramming through of a piece of legislation in what I regard as a disorderly way. Order in this place is a matter for you, Mr Speaker, but from my perspective, in terms of good law making, this has all the hallmarks of the Dangerous Dogs Act 1991 and all those other bad pieces of legislation. We know that legislation that has not had a chance to be properly scrutinised tends to end up with ill effects or unforeseen consequences for our constituents.
At a quarter to eight in the evening, what are hon. Members really supposed to do? Presumably, by now, the Bill has been published and is hot off the press and available for us to scurry to the Vote Office and look at. Perhaps the Leader of the House—I have not had the opportunity to see it—can tell me how many pages there are in that legislation. He is asking in this motion for us to go and write amendments to that piece of legislation and table those this evening for them to be in order for a Committee stage that is taking place tomorrow. I do not know whether the Leader of the House can say on how many occasions a Bill of such magnitude and importance has had a Second Reading and Committee stage on the same day. Perhaps he can give me some examples, but I do not see that that was the case in any preceding piece of European Union legislation going back to the early 1970s, before I was even born. I am really worried about this motion being the first of many such motions. I think it is necessary as an absolute minimum, but everybody needs to be alert to the fact that it is not just an unfair way to treat the House of Commons, but quite a dangerous approach to take.
Bill Wiggin (North Herefordshire) (Con)
The hon. Gentleman may not have noticed, but the Bill has just arrived at the Speaker’s Chair, and it is not as chubby as he might have feared.
Mr Leslie
I do not know what the hon. Gentleman’s definition of “chubby” is, but this is 110 pages of legislation, with at least six complex schedules to it. Let me see what the tally of clauses is within it: there are 40 clauses in this particular piece of legislation.
Perhaps the hon. Gentleman can cite to me what he understands clause 38 to be or perhaps the Leader of the House can tell me what he thinks clause 39 is, but I doubt that they can. The point I am rather facetiously making is that it is impossible for them to have digested it in that time. I am quite sure that they and other hon. Members—I can see hon. Members beyond the Bar doing so—are saying, “Oh, this is just remainers making these points. Of course they’re going to say that. That is just what they do. They should just shut up, take it on trust and ram the Bill through or nod it through. Everybody’s impatient, everybody’s frustrated. We are really tired. Let’s just do it.” But that is not good enough. Our constituents’ livelihoods and their jobs are at stake in what happens with this very significant piece of legislation.
Stephen Gethins (North East Fife) (SNP)
First, the hon. Gentleman is making an excellent point. Our constituents will be profoundly affected by this significant Bill, and to try to ram it through for political purposes is something that I know my constituents will not accept. Secondly—and I notice the remarks on the Benn Act—we rely on the Government usually having control of the Order Paper, but we were able to get control of the Order Paper for one day. Does he therefore agree with me that perhaps the opposition parties should get some more days to consider issues that we think we should be debating?
Mr Leslie
I really do not want to be either greedy or unreasonable. I just think we need to be fair and give due diligence to this piece of legislation. I am not saying we should have—what was it?—the 23 days in Committee on the Maastricht treaty. By the way, when I was very young, I watched its passage from the Gallery in this place many moons ago. I know many Conservative Members, some of whom are still in the House, who fought that Maastricht legislation tooth and nail, and they tabled amendment after amendment during the 23 days in Committee. However, I bet hon. Members anything that if they were told at nearly 8 pm on a Monday night that they had to table amendments for a Committee stage that would take place some time on the Tuesday, the next day, they would be absolutely up in arms—and quite right too.
There are a number of consequences that follow, and they are relevant to the motion we are discussing now. For example, will Clerks be available this evening, and to what hour, for hon. Members to ask advice about drafting amendments that have to be taken tomorrow? Will those amendments tabled tonight be starred, which essentially means that there is no guarantee of their relevance on the amendment paper? What is the procedure in respect of tabling amendments this evening and their being regarded as legitimate? If they are tabled tomorrow morning, even at 8 am, will those amendments be valid, and equally valid by the time we get to the afternoon? People watching these proceedings may say, “Oh well, this is all very technical—this is the wiring of the House.” These things matter, because important amendments may need to be tabled.
Jamie Stone (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross) (LD)
The hon. Gentleman is making a thoughtful case. Certain Government Members have suggested that the impasse that we seem to be in brings Parliament into disrepute and that public confidence in Parliament has been eroded. Constituents of mine who are watching this will say to me, “Jamie, you are kidding. You are putting this huge piece of legislation—something that could endanger our livelihoods—through in three days flat.” I would suggest that that damages the reputation of this Parliament. [Interruption.]
Mr Leslie
The hon. Gentleman is quite correct, and I can hear the impatience of Ministers of the Crown bubbling over—not perhaps the Leader of the House, who does not often bubble over in that way. We are all fed up with this process, but we should not sweep under the carpet concerns about the legislation simply because Ministers of the Crown are impatient. This is our job. We are employed to do it, and we were elected by our constituents in 2017, long after the referendum in 2016, to scrutinise this legislation. [Interruption.]
Stephen Doughty (Cardiff South and Penarth) (Lab/Co-op)
Madam Deputy Speaker, there is a lot of noise. The hon. Gentleman is making some strong points, but does he agree that there are many people in the House, on different sides, who want a deal to go through, or do not want a deal to go through, or want to amend things in different ways. There are varied views on Brexit, and they want to be able to table amendments, including to early parts of the Bill, in a proper way. I imagine that some members of the European Research Group might be unhappy with the first few clauses, which continue to assert the supremacy of EU law over UK law for the transition period. Other Members, including Opposition Members, who would like to see a deal voted through, would want to propose sensible amendments to improve the Bill so that they feel able to vote for it. I do not understand why the process is being rushed in this way.
Mr Leslie
The hon. Gentleman is correct. I am surprised that a Minister of the Crown did not propose the motion at the Dispatch Box—it was going to be nodded through had I not cleared my throat to let the Speaker know that I was worried about it when the Question was put. Perhaps the Leader of the House will reply to the debate. [Interruption.] I am glad he says that he will.
The hon. Gentleman was correct, because those first few clauses, which I understand will be debated tomorrow afternoon, if the programme motion succeeds, have many ramifications about which hon. Members are concerned. I point generally in the direction of where ERG members normally sit or lounge in various forms on the Government Benches. They are not here, and I gently suggest to the Leader of the House that in such exceptional circumstances—[Interruption.] Certainly not the hon. Member for Winchester (Steve Brine)—I would not say that he would ever be a member of the ERG; absolutely not, I know his views well. I wonder whether the Leader of the House, given the circumstances surrounding the motion, has taken exceptional steps to alert all hon. Members, perhaps with an email this evening saying that the clauses are likely to be debated and they will need to table amendments tonight if they are not to be starred amendments. Has he gone to any lengths to alert hon. Members to these unusual and, in my view, dangerous circumstances?
Anna Soubry (Broxtowe) (IGC)
As I understand it, the hon. Members for Wigan (Lisa Nandy) and for Stoke-on-Trent North (Ruth Smeeth) obtained assurances from the Government that there would be a procedure whereby the House could consider properly, during the implementation period, the future trading relationship between us and the European Union. I do not know, but I have been told that it looks like that is not in the Bill. Have the two hon. Ladies been informed, because given the hour it is difficult to see how they could table amendments to deliver the promise that was made to them by the Government?
Mr Leslie
It is indeed very serious. In this modern era, people think, “Oh well, politicians make promises across the Chamber, and if they are ignored or not honoured, that is just the nature of political to-ing and fro-ing.” That is not good enough, and I know that in his heart, if the Leader of the House makes a commitment at the Dispatch Box to hon. Members that certain amendments will be considered and given credence by the Government, he will allow time for amendments to be tabled. I am not sure that the timetable proposed in the motion is fair for those hon. Members. All it will do is annoy them further and offend them, and it will not necessarily win their support for the legislation. I suspect that he is making a rod for his own back with the timetable.
Stephen Doughty
To give a practical illustration—it is important that Members in the Commons and the Lords understand what has happened this evening—I became aware of the situation only 20 or 30 minutes ago. I went to the Vote Office and asked to see the programme motion if it had been published. The Vote Office told me that it did not have a copy and that I could not see anything. It told me that I might be able to find one in the Table Office. Members have not even had a look at the timetable. The vast majority have no idea whether or not they can table amendments, but they need to do so in relation to these parts of the Bill.
Mr Leslie
That is an incredibly important point, and I am sure, Madam Deputy Speaker, that you will want to reflect, in what appears to be not just an emergency procedure that the Government have invoked but a quite unprecedented one, on whether the programme motion details are available in the Vote Office. I am not sure whether that is the case.
Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing)
Order. I was almost going to make a point of order—in fact I realise that I am making a point that, I think, is a point of order. It might help hon. Members to know—and this is perfectly normal procedure every day— that until tomorrow’s Order Paper is published, it is available for any Member to see in the Table Office. If anyone wants to see what is on tomorrow’s Order Paper, they can go to the Table Office and discover that. Once it is published it will be available in the Vote Office. The hon. Gentleman is correct, technically, but the information is there if Members wish to see it.
Mr Leslie
I have been in the House for very many years, Madam Deputy Speaker—more, perhaps, than hon. Members and I care to remember, but I did not know that I would not be able to obtain from the Vote Office details of a programming arrangement tomorrow for the Committee stage of a Bill that has not yet had its Second Reading. Now that this has been aired, we are all supposed to toddle along to the Table Office to obtain them—that is another innovation of which I was not aware—and I shall certainly do so.
Stephen Gethins
There is concern among Opposition Members—this will not surprise the hon. Gentleman or others—that the Conservative party never quite got to grips with devolution. Does he agree that, given the short timescale, there is inadequate time for the Welsh Assembly and the Scottish Parliament to consider this in a proper fashion, as we should do through the devolution settlement?
Mr Leslie
I do not always agree with what happens in the Scottish Parliament or the Welsh Assembly, but they certainly have a right to be consulted, and certainly when a Bill of this magnitude is being railroaded through. If it were a one or two-page Bill with a couple of clauses, the Leader of the House would have a case to make: it would be a simple issue, and hon. Members could be fully aware of its contents.
There was no reason why the Government had to wait until this evening to publish the Bill. I do not understand the notion that it had to be withheld. I went to the Vote Office earlier this evening and asked to see a copy of the Bill. I was told, “Oh no, not until First Reading.” The Government have published draft legislation online for many years, so there was an attempt to withhold details—deliberately, I suspect—from hon. Members until after 7.30 pm, to make it as difficult as possible for me and other hon. Members to take the time to look at the Bill, find its flaws, draft amendments, consult the Clerks and ask for their assistance with the legal framing of such amendments, perhaps consult colleagues to obtain signatures for the amendments—there are only a number of hours to do that—then table the amendments in time for the Committee stage tomorrow of a Bill that has not even had a Second Reading. It really is a ridiculous state of affairs.
Madam Deputy Speaker
Order. I hesitate to interrupt the hon. Gentleman, but I will point out, just before he moves on to his next point, that there has been an innovation, and he has probably been instrumental in bringing it about. I am happy to tell the House that, as of a few moments ago, tomorrow’s Order Paper is now available in the Vote Office. It is not quite ready to be published, but it is on paper and it contains a lot of information. Any Member can find it in the Vote Office. I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for drawing the matter to the attention of the House.
Mr Leslie
I am grateful, Madam Deputy Speaker. Ordinarily, I would be humbled to have had a hand in such an innovation, but I am actually a little annoyed that we have reached this state of affairs. In the past I have tabled the occasional amendment to such pieces of legislation, but in this case it will be quite a challenge. I am now more determined to table my amendments this evening, in the hope that they will reach the Order Paper. I would therefore like to apologise to the Clerks in advance, because I am afraid that I will be pestering them later tonight, possibly at quite a late hour, because what other choice do we have in our democracy?
Mike Wood (Dudley South) (Con)
I know how concerned the hon. Gentleman is about pestering the Clerks at a late hour, but he could make that hour somewhat less late if he wrapped up his contribution now and got on with drafting his amendments.
Mr Leslie
Well, the hon. Gentleman’s intervention has just added a minute to that process. That is always the way with Government Members; it is a case of, “Just shut up; sign on the dotted line; don’t criticise; everybody’s tired; don’t bother looking at this; take it all on trust.” That we have reached such a situation is perhaps a consequence of having opened the Brexit box in 2016. It need not be this way. There is false cause for the 31 October deadline that the Government are rushing towards, which is all about the promises that the Prime Minister has made in various political circumstances. We know that an extension request has been made, and we know that it is entirely feasible. There is no real reason to truncate proper scrutiny of this legislation.
I, for one, learned only today that article 271 of the deal that the Prime Minister has struck with the European Council contains proposals that will mean that goods being shipped across from Northern Ireland to Holyhead or Liverpool will need an exit summary declaration form to be shown in order for them to cross the Irish sea within the United Kingdom. I am staggered that we are seeing that level of fettering of the transmission of goods within the United Kingdom. I would like to table an amendment on the impact that will have on constituents in Northern Ireland and Great Britain.
Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)
Last Friday one of the supermarket giants told the agrifoods sector in Northern Ireland that it could no longer source all of its chicken product in Northern Ireland, because that was simply becoming too expensive as a result of the matters that the hon. Gentleman refers to. That means that the agrifoods sector in Northern Ireland will lose 80% of the chicken business with that supermarket giant. That is an example of what is happening, yet the Government are telling us that it will make no difference and that we will be okay. Well, we are not going to be okay.
Mr Leslie
The hon. Gentleman is completely correct. What makes it worse is that he and I might want to table an amendment—it would be to the early clauses of the Bill—seeking to mitigate the impact of that proposal, or indeed to remove it altogether, but potentially we will have to table it tonight for consideration tomorrow. How on earth are we legitimately supposed to do that? I know that we will have another debate on the programme motion tomorrow—I might seek to catch your eye on that occasion, Madam Deputy Speaker—but tonight we are debating a motion on whether the House should allow hon. Members to table amendments this evening, with the good grace of the Government, so that they can be considered tomorrow. I think that is the absolute minimum requirement, but this is a very bad business indeed.
Luciana Berger (Liverpool, Wavertree) (LD)
I thank my hon. Friend for giving way, and I apologise for not being here for the start of his remarks—I was getting a copy of these two documents. How on earth am I supposed to digest 110 pages of a Bill and 122 pages of accompanying explanatory notes, before determining what my amendments might be and how to attach them to the right part of the Bill?
Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing)
Order. I beg the hon. Gentleman’s pardon, but I do not think that the hon. Lady was here for the start of these proceedings. Was she? Perhaps she had been here but then went out. That is fine, but we have to be a little careful about sticking to the normal rules. We are in an unsual situation, but we will observe the normal rules. If she was here, that is quite all right, but I thought that she was making a point that had already been made—of course, it would not be unusual for a point to me made more than once.
Mr Leslie
Of course my hon. Friend did explain her circumstances; she saw that we were debating an issue that she is concerned about. She quite rightly questions how on earth, logistically, she is supposed to read the Bill, draft her amendments, consult the Clerks, discuss the amendments with hon. Members who might want to sign them, and then table them before the close of business this evening. Other hon. Members watching these proceedings from their offices will also be thinking that this is the most important piece of legislation for decades, affecting their constituents, the manufacturing sectors and the service sectors, and with public services expecting revenues that will now not come in because the economy will be adversely affected. It affects so many people and all aspects of their lives. That includes businesses in Northern Ireland that did not realise that they would have to get an export summary declaration just to ship their goods across the Irish sea. Yet we are all supposed to table amendments for consideration in Committee tomorrow, on the same day as Second Reading. I am absolutely staggered that the Government have the brass neck to come to the House with that proposal.
Tom Brake (Carshalton and Wallington) (LD)
Does my hon. Friend agree that if we had more time to debate these issues, it might be possible to clarify the cost to business of the forms that he has just mentioned, so that we get a better understanding? It could be a phenomenally large figure. We know that Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs has costed some of the changes under a no-deal exit at £15 billion, in relation to the customs forms that might need to be completed.
Mr Leslie
It is sometimes said from the Government Benches—perhaps not necessarily by the Leader of the House—that with a billion here and a billion there, pretty soon it adds up to quite a lot of money. The issue of an impact assessment has already been raised. My hon. Friend the Member for Liverpool, Wavertree (Luciana Berger) and I have already tried to see whether there is a chance of having some level of analysis, which of course was disparaged by the Leader of the House. He said that in his entire career he has never seen a piece of analysis that he agreed with—I really think he treats the whole profession of researchers and analysts with great disdain.
It really is not on for the Government to expect hon. Members, under the terms of this motion, to have a fair and decent opportunity to frame amendments for consideration in Committee tomorrow. I appeal not just to the Leader of the House to reconsider, but to the Chair—to you, Madam Deputy Speaker—to protect the interests of Back Benchers on the practicalities of how we are supposed to frame amendments tonight and then seek the advice of the Table Office, the Clerks and others, because this is a totally unacceptable state of affairs.
Several hon. Members rose—
Mr Rees-Mogg
The Government always take the concerns of the devolved Administrations very seriously. Leaving the European Union is primarily a reserved matter—it is a matter for the United Kingdom Government —but that is no reason not to have constructive and continuous engagement with the devolved Administrations.
The Government tabled a programme motion today. You said that it was available in the Vote Office, Madam Deputy Speaker, but I wonder whether it might be useful to Members who have not had a chance to go to the Table Office if I were to run through the timetable briefly, for the sake of Hansard. You nod most elegantly, Madam Deputy Speaker, and I take that as an encouragement to carry on.
The Second Reading debate will be a normal Second Reading debate, and will continue until 7 pm tomorrow. The programme motion proposes three hours of debate after its commencement in the first stage of the Committee procedure. On the second day, there will be 12 hours of sitting divided into four sections of three hours, with a three-hour section specifically reserved—the right hon. Member for Broxtowe (Anna Soubry) may be pleased about this—for motions relating to a second referendum. Members who are concerned about that issue will therefore have an opportunity to debate it. On Thursday, there will be eight hours for proceedings on consideration up to and including Third Reading: six hours on the Report stage, and two hours on Third Reading.
Mr Leslie
I am not entirely sure how a programme motion could necessarily relate to amendments that have not yet been tabled, but will the Leader of the House please clarify which parts of the Bill he intends to be covered in the Committee stage tomorrow?
While I have the Floor, may I ask another question? The position of Leader of the House covers some of the role of safeguarding the interests of Members, although I know that that is primarily the role of the Chair. May I ask what facilities will be available this evening to assist Members with the drafting of amendments for a Committee stage that will begin tomorrow?
Mr Rees-Mogg
Tomorrow’s proceedings in Committee will be on clauses 1 to 4, new clauses relating to part 1, and new schedules relating to part 1. Further details are, of course, available on the printed paper.
Mr Rees-Mogg
The last moment for submitting amendments will be the point of Second Reading. It will, of course, be at the discretion of the Chairman of Ways and Means, but I should be very surprised if manuscript amendments were refused tomorrow. There will be time for amendments to be submitted right up until the completion of the Second Reading debate.
It is in the nature of the House not to assume anything, and the tabling of amendments is therefore always possible at a late stage if proceedings are taken in close proximity. That will be the position tomorrow, although obviously it is the Chairman of Ways and Means who determines what amendments are taken in Committee. It would be wrong for me to give an authoritative answer, but I hope that that is helpful general guidance on how things tend to work.
Business of the House
Chris Leslie Excerpts(4 years, 9 months ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Mr Rees-Mogg
The Government recognise that there is more work to do on raising awareness of conditions such as endometriosis, and ensuring that clinical guidance is being followed and that therefore diagnosis is earlier. It is essential that all of us—Government, Parliament, employers, the NHS and wider society—do what we can to improve the diagnosis, and more generally get rid of old-fashioned taboos relating to women’s health to ensure that people are treated fairly in the workplace and have their rights in law upheld and enforced. A debate on the Adjournment or in Westminster Hall would be a good way of giving this important issue further attention.
Mr Chris Leslie (Nottingham East) (IGC)
It was really discourteous of the Leader of the House to wave around his own private copy of whatever has been agreed in Brussels, start the debate off and then try to stop everybody else asking him about it. Will he do something to remedy that discourtesy? I have two particular points to make about this Saturday sitting. First, he is not planning for it to be a 90-minute debate, is he? That would be totally ridiculous. Secondly, will he ensure that the Government publish a full economic impact assessment of what has been agreed, so that we can have it to inform Saturday’s debate?
Mr Rees-Mogg
I am slightly puzzled that the hon. Gentleman thinks it is odd that members of the Cabinet receive Government documents; this is the normal process of government in this country. I can give him the assurance that all the documents will be published as required by the Act. [Hon. Members: “ When?”] They will be available online as soon as practicable. They will be in the Vote Office in draft shortly and they will be available as finalised documents once they have been agreed—assuming they are agreed—by the European Council. The surrender Act requires them to be laid on the day of the debate, and that will be done, but because the Government want to facilitate this House’s ability to study the papers, they will be made available earlier than is formally required under the Act.
Business Statement
Chris Leslie Excerpts(4 years, 9 months ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Mr Rees-Mogg
I entered the record books for Parliament when I said that while no one was allowed to indulge in the floccinaucinihilipilification of our own judges, one was allowed to do so under Standing Orders and “Erskine May” for foreign judges. That is a freedom that this House is entitled to.
Mr Chris Leslie (Nottingham East) (IGC)
The provisions of the Benn Act, or, as it could also be known, the safeguarding Act, do not actually require a sitting on Saturday. It is a bit peculiar about what exactly the Government are planning. I do not necessarily expect the Leader of the House to tell us what will be brought forward on Saturday, but I do think it would be very helpful if he would publish the motion he proposes to use to facilitate the Saturday sitting. Will it be voted on tomorrow night or on Thursday night? Will it be sprung on us and introduced midway through Thursday? A lot of us do not, quite frankly, trust the Government on the way that they will frame the sitting on Saturday, so I hope he will publish it in advance for us all to see and scrutinise.
Business of the House
Chris Leslie Excerpts(4 years, 9 months ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Mr Rees-Mogg
I think all of us always want access to cash. It is very important, particularly in rural communities, that access to cash remains possible, as many people want to carry on using traditional forms of payment, so what the hon. Gentleman is calling for is not unreasonable. I am afraid, however, that I will once again refer him to the Chairman of the Backbench Business Committee, although he will have been listening closely earlier and so will know that applications are being received until 2.30 pm tomorrow.
Mr Chris Leslie (Nottingham East) (IGC)
The fact that the Leader of the House has announced more than a dozen pieces of business disproves the nonsense that we could have had a luxurious five-week Prorogation. There is tons of business that needs to be attended to, including the lack of progress on the Trade Bill. We have a dysfunctional arrangement for scrutinising the trade arrangements with the United States, for example. Those arrangements are continuing, and it is totally unacceptable. When will we get a chance to scrutinise these things according to law?
Mr Rees-Mogg
The Trade Bill contains a bit on a customs union, which would be an absolute disaster. It will not come back in that form.
European Union (Withdrawal)
Chris Leslie Excerpts(4 years, 10 months ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Ian Blackford
It grieves me to see what is taking place, because, in effect, what has happened with the election of the Prime Minister is that the Vote Leave campaign now runs the Government. The harsh reality is that Conservative Back Benchers who are prepared to put our national interests before party interests are going to be forced out of their party. The Tory party has been taken over by a cult, and that does nothing—absolutely nothing—for our democracy.
Mr Chris Leslie (Nottingham East) (IGC)
The right hon. Gentleman is completely right that Scotland would be harmed by no deal, just as my constituents in Nottingham would be harmed by no deal. He is absolutely right to say that this Bill is required as an insurance policy against no deal. Does he also agree that anything that dissolves Parliament before 31 October, whether through Prorogation or a jingoistic election—as the hon. Member for Na h-Eileanan an Iar (Angus Brendan MacNeil) said—would put our constituents at risk, because there simply is not the time to put all the legislation and preparations in place for that insurance policy before 31 October?
Ian Blackford
The hon. Gentleman is right to signify that we are facing a constitutional crisis.
I applaud Members of Parliament right across this House who have worked together collectively over the course of the past few weeks because we understand the risk to our economy and to our communities. Thank goodness that Members of Parliament have shown that desire to work across the House. We in the SNP have made it clear that we will work with everyone else to make sure that we remove the cliff edge. We have done that consistently ever since 2016. We want an election, but when we can get to the safe landing place where we have no deal taken off the table for 31 October.
But I say—in no way do I mean it as a threat to anyone in this House—that the people of Scotland deserve the right to be able to determine their own future. We cannot allow ourselves to be taken out of the European Union against our will. We have a mandate from the 2016 Scottish elections to deliver a referendum for the people of Scotland. It is absolutely right that the people of my country who want to remain as a European nation should have that choice. The Prime Minister and his Brexiteer cohorts are not going to drive Scotland out of the European Union against its will.
Business of the House
Chris Leslie Excerpts(4 years, 12 months ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Mr Rees-Mogg
I am grateful to my hon. Friend for raising that important issue, and it should distress us all that online harassment seems to affect one category of society more than others. It seems to affect women and ethnic minorities more than men, and it would be appalling if that deterred good people from coming into political life. I am extremely keen for my hon. Friend’s suggestion to be looked at, and to try to work out how to lessen that problem, which is something we should all be worried about.
Mr Chris Leslie (Nottingham East) (IGC)
Will the new Leader of the House say a little more about how he intends to champion the supremacy of the House of Commons? We have slipped into some bad habits recently—Opposition day motions have not been fulfilled by the Government, and other resolutions have been ignored by the Executive. If the House of Commons resolves something, will the Leader of the House ensure that that resolution is faithfully executed?
Mr Rees-Mogg
The hon. Gentleman’s view of history is longer than mine. He said “recently”, but I do not think 1972 is that recent. It was then that the House abrogated parliamentary sovereignty and decided to hand it over to what then became the European Union. I am glad to say that we have taken back control and that Parliament will be sovereign once again. Parliament is sovereign by law, not by mere motion. The last time it was sovereign by mere motion was when it issued ordinances under Oliver Cromwell. Do I wish to go back to that, Mr Speaker? No sir!
Business of the House
Chris Leslie Excerpts(5 years, 5 months ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Andrea Leadsom
I always listen carefully to the views of right hon. and hon. Members, but as people will appreciate, we have set out that there will be an amendable motion, and we will bring that forward as soon as possible to enable amendments to be tabled.
Mr Chris Leslie (Nottingham East) (Lab/Co-op)
Can the Leader of the House elaborate further on the good point raised by the hon. Member for Wellingborough (Mr Bone)? She will know that, to be frank, there have been trust issues with the Government on this, and opportunities for debate have been tabled and then pulled. Can she pin this down precisely? She is not saying that this will be a 90-minute motion in the standard form of a normal Government motion, so presumably the debate will be all day on 14 February. If so, will she confirm that the business of the House motion necessary to enable that will be tabled on Wednesday 13 February? If not on Wednesday, then when?
Andrea Leadsom
As I have tried to set out, if we are able to bring back a second meaningful vote, the vote to approve the deal will be on a motion under section 13(1)(b) of the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018, and it will be an amendable motion, as it was in January. Any business motion that may be necessary will be tabled in the usual way, and will be debatable and amendable in accordance with the usual rules of the House. If there is no revised deal, the Prime Minister has set out that she will provide an update to the House next week, and if necessary I will provide a revised business statement. If there is not a meaningful vote, the debate next week will not be on a motion under section 13, but because of a commitment that the Government have made outside the statutory framework of the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018. Any motion brought forward then will be tabled in good time for right hon. and hon. Members to amend it.