Betting Shops (Single Staffing)

Debate between Chris Evans and Philip Davies

Wednesday 5th February 2014 Westminster Hall

[Chris Evans]

I have placed several charity bets and secured a donation of £5,000 from Ladbrokes for a charity in my constituency.

Although I have some fond memories of my time as a bookmaker and of some of the characters whom I met, I cannot say that my four years passed without incident. Whether someone was upset with the odds being offered or by losing money that they could not afford, their anger was inevitably directed at the person behind the counter: me. While it could be shrugged off when someone was working with me, I felt particularly vulnerable when working alone, in particular if I had taken large sums of money. I left the betting industry some 14 years ago and had assumed that the practice of single staffing had ended. I was therefore shocked to learn that it is still going on, which I why called for this debate.

Over the past few weeks and months, I have read about an increasing number of cases where betting shop workers have been attacked, assaulted and tragically even murdered. When we discuss the betting trade, whether problem gambling or antisocial behaviour, we rarely focus on betting shop staff, yet 55,000 people work in bookmaking, which is the equivalent of 10% of the leisure industry. The work force is mainly made up of women, some of whom are re-entering the workplace after having children, or students, who need flexible or part-time work while studying, as I did when I was a student.

In recent years, however, we have witnessed a reduction in the number of betting shop employees. From 2008 to 2011, the number of betting shop staff fell from 60,247 to 54,311. In contrast, the number of shops has increased from 8,862 in March 2009 to 9,067 in March 2011. We expect staff to enforce consumer protection measures and to verify the age of gamblers. At the same time, they have to police fixed odds betting terminals. Speak to somebody who works in a betting shop today and they will tell you how difficult it is for staff to oversee FOBT usage if they are on their own. In addition, they have to get on with the job that they are employed to do. When someone works alone in a shop, they are expected to do all that as well as take and settle bets. Ultimately, employees are being asked to work as both cashier and manager at the same time, and often they are not paid any extra for working what are in effect two jobs. Following a meeting with Ladbrokes yesterday, I was pleased to hear that such workers receive a supplement of 30p an hour, which is a promising move in the right direction.

We often talk about problem gambling and I am aware of some good self-exclusion schemes from bookmakers such as William Hill and Ladbrokes. The problem is that staff cannot enforce such schemes and combat problem gambling if they are working alone, which has been highlighted by those working in the industry. One bookmaker spoke to his union, Community, about the problems that single staffing causes when trying to deal with problem gambling. He said:

“There have been many occasions when I have seen customers display signs of problem gambling. As we often lone work, I have been unable to interact with these customers. I have been in the betting industry for over 30 years, and over the past 5 years I have seen more and more customers with gambling problems. Lone working makes these issues hard to deal with.”

Lone-working policies are preventing staff from performing the duties that their employers expect of them.

Most worrying is the way in which single staffing can make betting shop staff vulnerable to incidents of violence. A report by “Panorama” in 2012 reported 26 outbursts of antisocial behaviour being witnessed during visits to 37 betting shops in London and Birmingham. Figures obtained by the same programme show a 9% increase in violent crime in betting shops between 2008 and 2011. In 2012, a survey of Community union members found that 10% of betting shop staff had experienced physical assault in the previous 12 months.

[Philip Davies (Shipley) (Con)]

I refer the House to my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests, specifically the days at the races donated by bookmakers. I commend the hon. Gentleman, who is knowledgeable about such matters and is always worth listening to. On safety, does he agree that the Safe Bet Alliance, which has been set up to conduct a risk assessment of single manning, has been praised by the police for reducing levels of crime and that, under the scheme, single manning is used only after a risk assessment that is endorsed by the police and others?

[Chris Evans]

I think that the hon. Gentleman and I are the only two Members who have worked in bookmakers and who actually know what it is like on the coalface— to use a Welsh term. He is right about the Safe Bet Alliance, and I spoke extensively with William Hill and Ladbrokes, both of which are signed up, before this debate. I will develop that point later in my speech. I thank the hon. Gentleman for his intervention and I am glad that someone else with betting shop experience is here today.

According to the 2012 Community survey, some 50% of betting shop workers had been threatened with some form of physical violence and those responding to the survey said that abuse is almost seen as part of the job. If it is true that violence in betting shops is increasing, bookmakers and Ministers have a responsibility to act to protect staff at work. I want to draw attention to several cases that give an indication of the level of violence to which betting shop staff can be vulnerable when working alone. Community recently asked its members to provide their stories and experiences of single manning and I have heard further stories that indicate the risks of working alone. One betting shop worker was fortunate to escape uninjured after his store was robbed while he was single manning. He said:

“I was robbed one evening just after 9.30 pm by a customer who had been in and out of the shop all night. I had spoken with him and he pretended that there was something wrong with the machine. I had to go out from behind the counter to deal with it and he came up behind me with a hammer. Thankfully, I was not physically hurt but following the robbery I could not return to work for over a month.”

Such stories demonstrate the need for a commitment on the part of the betting industry to tackle the issues caused by single staffing and lone working. I want CCTV to be compulsory, so that staff can feel secure in the knowledge that what goes on in a shop is properly monitored, and I am pleased that some steps are being taken in such areas. Community has told me that it has had more engagement with firms like Betfred in recent months and is holding meetings to discuss its current restructuring. I also wrote to William Hill to ask what measures it was taking to combat this problem. It is trialling a system in its shops that will ensure that any shop policy is dictated by how best to protect shop staff. It tells me that shops designated as high risk under their security risk assessment process, as mentioned by the hon. Member for Shipley (Philip Davies), were excluded from the recent lone-working trial. William Hill has assured me that it has also undertaken a shop-by-shop risk assessment. Of particular importance is the fact that it has consulted heavily with staff. William Hill is also drawing together a lone-working policy document to set out clearly the company’s approach to single staffing. There are also some fantastic campaigns that are working to draw attention to the problems caused by lone working. The Sutton Guardian recently launched its “Safe Bet” campaign to fight for safer conditions for betting shop workers. Campaigns such as that are extremely important if we are to get the betting industry to respond positively to the problems.

As I mentioned, yesterday I met representatives of Ladbrokes, who assured me that they are working on ways to improve their situation such as implementing a code of practice, with the aim that it should be in place by 1 March. I was also informed of the new till technology that it is trying to set up whereby if tills become inactive over a certain time, an alarm is sent to the security office who will be alerted to the situation. The code of practice is intended to help gamblers by providing alerts. For example, if a person plays for more than half an hour or spends more than £250, the machine will alert the player. I was pleased to hear of that and wish that such practice was in place right across the industry.

--- Later in debate ---

[Philip Davies]

The hon. Gentleman and I both have experience of working in betting shops, and in my case often alone. Does he agree that there is concern about putting too much obligation on betting shops, given that about a third of them are making less than £15,000 a year? Many of them are independent shops, which is my background and my biggest concern. Putting too many requirements on independent betting shops might make them unviable, and we could end up not with single-manned betting shops but with no betting shops and nobody in work.

[Chris Evans]

I have the same background as the hon. Gentleman. I also worked in single-staffed independent betting shops. All I am looking for is simple, common-sense, cheap things such as putting in “bandit glass” areas or cages, as we called them, to ensure that the staff are safe. We need seriously to consider a voluntary code and see how it runs out. If a voluntary code does not work, we can revisit it and have another discussion at another time.

Fixed Odds Betting Terminals

Debate between Chris Evans and Philip Davies

Wednesday 8th January 2014 Commons Chamber

[Philip Davies]

I cannot give way again as I have taken the two interventions allowed.

People ask for a demand test and there is a demand test: it is called a customer demand test, which is the ultimate demand test.

The second myth is that bookmakers target poorer areas. There are two bookmakers per square mile in the most deprived areas. That compares with nine pubs and 11 takeaways. If the Opposition are saying that bookmakers are targeting the poorest people in society, what do they have to say about pubs and takeaways targeting those people? Do we hear anything about that? We do not, because this is not about the poorest in society being targeted; it is about people who are anti-gambling and anti-bookmaker. Bookmakers are not targeting poorer areas. This is about middle-class people being patronising towards working-class people by telling them that they know best how they should spend their money.

The third myth is that the machines are used by the poorest people. Again, that is untrue. The health survey published in recent months shows that gambling prevalence was highest in the top quintiles of household income, with 6% of people in the highest income quintile playing FOBTs, compared with 4% in the lowest quintile. The hon. Member for West Bromwich East said that he did not want surveys to be linked to the gambling industry, but this is the health survey, which has nothing to do with the gambling industry. That survey makes it clear that richer people are much more likely than poorer people to play FOBTs.

Only two gambling activities in that health survey were engaged in more by poorer people than by richer people. They were scratch cards and bingo. Poorer people spend more on scratch cards and bingo than do the richest people. What are the Opposition saying about scratch cards and bingo? Nothing, because they do not think that it would be popular to say anything about them. This is just a case of crocodile tears.

[Chris Evans (Islwyn) (Lab/Co-op)]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Philip Davies]

I would love to give way to the hon. Gentleman, who is a very good man on these issues, but I am afraid that time does not allow me to do so.

The fourth myth is that the amount of problem gambling is going up. The health survey shows that, according to the “Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders”, 0.8% of men and 0.2% of women were identified as problem gamblers in 2012. That is down from 0.9% in the previous prevalence study. So problem gambling is going down, not up. If B2s and FOBTs were the cause of such problem gambling, it would presumably have gone through the roof in recent years, but it has actually gone down.

We often hear FOBTs being described as the “crack cocaine of gambling”, but by whom? No one impartial describes them in that way. The first recorded instance is Donald Trump describing video keno games in New Jersey as the “crack cocaine of gambling”, because he feared that they would keep people out of his casinos. This is a ridiculous debate on a ridiculous premise, and I cannot possibly support the Opposition motion today.

Gambling (Licensing and Advertising) Bill

Debate between Chris Evans and Philip Davies

Tuesday 5th November 2013 Commons Chamber

[Philip Davies]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right.

I want to touch on the levy, because a number of Members have suggested that we should be compelling companies that are currently offshore to pay it, just as onshore companies have to. I think that argument is a bit of a red herring. There is a perfectly clear and respectable argument for those offshore to pay the same as those onshore, including the levy, but I do not think that it would make a fat lot of difference to the money raised from the levy going from bookmakers to racing. I am delighted that an agreement has been reached between racing and bookmakers, but in my view, and that of others, including the hon. Member for Bradford South, who are better qualified than me to decide whether what I am saying is right, it seems that Ministers decide at the start how much the gambling industry should contribute towards racing—perhaps arriving at a figure of around £75 million—and then come up with a mechanism on the levy to deliver that.

If offshore companies are included in the levy, my suspicion is that exactly the same thing will take place. The Minister will think that £75 million is about right and will then change the mechanism so that it delivers that amount. Those people in racing who think that that is a way to get an awful lot more money from the betting industry are simply misguided, although I can see why they think it. It would not generate any more money; it would just change the formula by which these things are calculated.

[Chris Evans]

Before the hon. Gentleman moves on from that point, does he agree that horse racing makes up 23% of betting shops’ business, whereas the entire online business is 23%, and most online gambling is poker, bingo and other things, so we have to be very careful when we involve online companies in the levy?

[Philip Davies]

I welcome what the hon. Gentleman says. We should be very careful before going down any of these routes and should look for any unintended consequences.

I do not think that the proposal will deliver the revenue that the racing industry thinks it will. If the Government are concerned that this will entangle them in a huge legal minefield in the European Union, it seems to me to be a pointless battle to get into when it will generate no extra money for racing anyway. I therefore urge the Minister, whatever representations she receives, to resist going down that route, because I think she will be led down a blind alley, whatever the superficial attractions.

I speak as a rather modest owner of racehorses—an owner of rather modest racehorses is probably a better description, to be honest—so I am really arguing against my own interests, because in theory increasing the levy yield is supposed to benefit people like me.