War Graves Week

Debate between Chris Evans and Nigel Evans

Tuesday 14th May 2024 Commons Chamber

[Chris Evans (Islwyn) (Lab/Co-op)]

I begin by thanking the right hon. Member for Ludlow (Philip Dunne) and my right hon. Friend the Member for Kingston upon Hull North (Dame Diana Johnson) for their service as commissioners on the Commonwealth War Graves Commission. I also wish to comment on the speeches of the right hon. Members for Beckenham (Bob Stewart) and for Horsham (Sir Jeremy Quin). The words that they have spoken today not only honoured the war dead, but showed a special passion and commitment to those people.

In particular, I pay tribute to the right hon. Member for Beckenham who has seen sights that none of us in this place could possibly imagine. I want to place on record my thanks to him for what he has done for our armed forces, and for the service and commitment that he continues to give to them. I shadowed the right hon. Member for Horsham for three years. I heard many of his speeches, but none was as passionate or as dignified as the one that he has just given to the House, and he can be truly proud of those people that he spoke about today.

In debates such as this, I often feel full of regret. My grandfather has been dead now for 27 years. He served in the second world war for the Scottish Highlanders. I never got to sit down and ask him why a Welshman from the south Wales valleys found himself in the Scottish Highlanders during the second world war. But, like so many other people, he rarely talked about his experiences during the war.

It is interesting that we commemorate War Graves Week this week. I think of Harry Patch, the last fighting Tommy, who died some 15 years ago. If anybody wants to read about the brutality of war, they should read a passage from his book, “The Last Fighting Tommy”. He described finding a young lad from A Company, who had been ripped from his shoulder to his waist. He was beyond human help. His words were: “Shoot me”. But before Patch could get his revolver out to put the lad out of his misery, he died. His last words were simply, “Mother”. You cannot read those words and not realise that each and every one of those graves that the Commonwealth War Graves Commission upholds has a very personal human story. Even though many of them would have been dead now for hundreds of years, the fact is that they were once somebody’s wife, somebody’s husband, somebody’s lover, somebody’s brother, and they all will have personal stories.

People who know me know that I can often bore for Britain about football. My interest has always been in the 1960s and 1970s, but, over the past year, I have been very drawn to the Football Battalion, also known as the 17th Middlesex Regiment and the 23rd Middlesex Regiment, which recruited footballers and supporters to fight in world war one, where they fought in the Somme and Passchendaele. There are stories of people such as Walter Tull, the very first black man ever to command a company in the British Army. He joined the 17th Middlesex Regiment, but was invalided out for what we know today as post-traumatic stress disorder. He went back. He was commissioned as an officer for 23rd Middlesex Regiment. He died at the battle of the Somme on 25 March 1918, at the end of the war. His body was never recovered—even though his fellow goalkeeper from Leicester Fosse, Tom Billingham, tried to save him, he could not find his body. He is believed to be buried in the Somme somewhere. His name is commemorated with the 34,000 others at the memorial in northern France.

I also want to talk about two friends, Richard McFadden and William Jonas. They grew up together in Scotland. They were as close as brothers and were both strikers with Clapton Orient. McFadden ended up a company sergeant. When they were together in a trench under heavy shell fire, Jonas jumped out and said, “Good luck to my love and my wife, Mary Jane”, and handed something to McFadden. When McFadden opened his hand, he found a locket that Jonas wanted him to give to his wife. McFadden then wrote a letter back to Clapton Orient to tell them of their loss. By the time that letter was received, McFadden had joined Jonas. However, McFadden died in a field hospital and has a grave. That is why it is so vital that we uphold these graves. So many people who went to world war one are lying on those battlefields—nameless, no one knowing where they are—but they are commemorated by their families.

We are now reaching the very end of that world war two generation; someone who was 21 in 1945 would now be 98. Those of us who go to the remembrance services watch as they get older, with their walking sticks, their crutches and their wheelchairs, and see their dwindling numbers, but still they come. They come to honour their friends and comrades. Still they walk—but one day they will not be there. I hope that, just as we honoured Harry Patch when he passed away, the last fighting Tommy of this country, with 1,000 people coming to his funeral and the then Duchess of Cornwall attending, we will afford the same honours to whoever that last veteran of world war two is.

As we saw with the passing of the Queen in September 2022, there are very few of that generation left. We owe them a debt of honour, for we would not be standing in this seat of democracy if they had not gone out to fight, though it was not just what they did in world war two but what they did afterwards. Without complaint, they rolled up their sleeves and rebuilt this bomb-damaged country so that future generations could enjoy the freedoms they fought for. That is why it is vital that we have a commitment from the Government that we will remember them properly, and we will mark their passing in a way that is appropriate.

The other thing the Commonwealth War Graves Commission does, its most important work, is to fight against the very real threat of fake news and the challenging of archives and documents. Those who deny things that were supposed to have happened in the past will challenge documents, but when they are faced with memorials, when they have to stand at those graves, they cannot deny that those things happened. They cannot deny world war one, or world war two, or all the other disputes we were involved with. That is why the CWGC is vital.

As other hon. Members have said, our armed forces footprint is declining year by year. Young people do not have any connection any more with the armed forces. For example, as I have said, my grandfather was the last military man to serve in our family, and he would be over 100 now. It is vital that we ensure that schools and community groups are made aware of that sacrifice.

This has been an emotional debate, but also the House at its very best—we often say that, and we often overuse the words “courage” and “heroism” as though they are just words we plucked from the air. But as Harry Kane, the England captain, who does vital work as an ambassador for the Royal British Legion, said when talking about the football battalion, “One day you are just playing football and the next you are risking your life.” That brings home what those people went through.

I want to end with Harry Patch, who I find an inspiration. He said he was guided by the simple words of Moses, “Thou shalt not kill.” When he was faced with a German, he could not bring himself to kill that person, so he shot him in the shoulder. It is vital that we remember the horrors of war, that we pay tribute to those who went and fought for our armed services, and finally that we as a Government do something to honour them, so that we can all join together in an act of remembrance.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

I have to say, in my 32 years of history in this Parliament, I am hearing some of the finest speeches I have ever heard. Absolutely superb.

Jobs and Growth in a Low-carbon Economy

Debate between Chris Evans and Nigel Evans

Monday 5th March 2012 Commons Chamber

[Chris Evans (Islwyn) (Lab/Co-op)]

One of my great Welsh forebears, Aneurin Bevan, once said that we live on a land made of coal, surrounded by sea, and it would take an economic genius for anyone to go cold or hungry.

What I hear from this debate today is that we have the greatest natural resources in the world, yet we are standing by and watching as we get left behind by the rest of the world. China has half the market in solar power batteries; Brazil is already investing in ethanol production for its cars; and the Danes are using wind power to produce their energy. What are we doing? We are falling from third to 13th in green technology investment. That cannot go on.

For too long I have been worried about debates on green energy and technology. I have been one of those who has said, “This is our last best chance,” but the real problem is that we talk in the abstract and in the future, so as we are only a few weeks away from the Budget there are three fundamental things that the Government can do to increase jobs and growth in the low-carbon sector.

The first, quite surprisingly, is to be found in mortgage repossessions, of which Wales has had 5,000 over the past year. It seems an economic fallacy to put those properties back on the market to be sold at below market level, when the banks could bring about equity investment, keep people in their homes and provide for energy-refitting such houses, so that their value increases. We could also look at refitting every public building to stimulate the construction business.

Secondly, with growth on the floor, I genuinely believe in and have come round to the idea of a mini stimulus: not a stimulus on the level that we saw in 2008, when we tried to keep the economy going while it was failing, but something based on what we have learned from that. If we look for example at the car scrappage scheme, we see that in 2009 a targeted stimulus put more new cars—2.4%—on the road, while at the same time emissions dropped for the first time in 13 years. We could look at that again, but instead of talking about just car scrappage, we could talk about hybrid cars as well.

The third and final thing that I would like the Government to do is to talk about not only the green investment bank, but about picking two cities and making them energy independent. The two that I would pick are Cardiff and Bristol, because they could bring about an investment project, such as the Severn Bay barrage, that would produce more energy through tidal and wind power.

Those are great opportunities that we can invest in and look at, and the Government can do so now. They have it in hand. This is our last chance, and as I see time is ticking down, I suggest that we take it.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

The winding-up speeches will start at 10 minutes to 7.

Opportunities for the Next Generation

Debate between Chris Evans and Nigel Evans

Tuesday 13th September 2011 Commons Chamber

[Lyn Brown]

Does my hon. Friend agree that the biggest problem with this Government is that they take an awful lot with one hand, and give back a few pebbles with the other hand, to the people we represent? The biggest problem young people have had to face in trying to fulfil their aspirations in my constituency is the removal of their education maintenance allowance, which is not being replaced by anything of equal value. The replacement is certainly not going to provide for as many people in my constituency as EMA did. Although Conservative Members can talk about their grandiose schemes, they are not replacing what they have taken away—

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

Order. Will the hon. Lady face the Chair so that the microphones can pick up her words?

[Chris Evans]

That is the point I was trying to make. We in Wales have realised the importance of EMA, which is why we have kept it. Why have we been able to keep it? Because we have a Labour Government.

To pay off the deficit—yes, we do need enterprise and we do not want inertia, but there is a problem with the Government’s belief that people can somehow go into a shop, see some sort of product on the shelves, drink it and then all of a sudden become entrepreneurs. What we need is a fundamental overhaul of how we look at our education system. We need to make work part of our education from day to day; we need to talk about self-image and communication skills, and above all, we need to talk to people about entrepreneurship. That is the only way forward for us.

To return to the motion, I do believe we need an economic stimulus, and that could come about through a VAT cut—but we also need to look at fundamental problems in our society and try to address them.

I have kept my points short, Mr Deputy Speaker, and have spoken for only six minutes. I hope that you will remember that in future when I want to speak again.

The Economy

Debate between Chris Evans and Nigel Evans

Wednesday 22nd June 2011 Commons Chamber

[Susan Elan Jones (Clwyd South) (Lab)]

Conservative Members seem to forget what the Prime Minister said. In speech to the CBI, he said that the Government were sticking to Labour’s spending totals. Just weeks before the collapse of Northern Rock and for several months after it, he said to the Institute of Directors that if it wanted lower taxation and less regulation, he would—

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

Order. I think that the hon. Gentleman has got the point.

[Chris Evans]

I thank my hon. Friend. After the debacle of the intervention by the hon. Member for Vale of Glamorgan (Alun Cairns), she proves that we have some sensible voices in Wales.

Let me comment on the blasé attitude that these policies are going to work. That is what Government Members say, but what if they do not? I suspect the Chancellor would say, “Not my fault, guv. It was the snow.” It could be hailstones next time or perhaps it will even be too sunny. I imagine that his plan B is quantitative easing. It is all very well printing money, but the key to it is spending. We have to prove to people—[Interruption.] I mean consumer spending—we will speak about the other issue tomorrow. We need to give people the confidence to spend in our shops and ensure that people are in jobs.

Budget Responsibility and National Audit Bill [Lords]

Debate between Chris Evans and Nigel Evans

Tuesday 22nd March 2011 Commons Chamber

[Chris Evans]

If I was in the hon. Gentleman’s position, I would be more worried about whether I will have a job in four or five years’ time. That is what most people are concerned about, but they are concerned about what will happen in six month’s time—

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

Order. I will tell Members what I am concerned about: no one is talking to the specific amendments before us. If it is at all possible for you, Mr Evans, to mention the amendments now and again, that really would be very useful.

[Chris Evans]

Thank you for your advice, Mr Deputy Speaker—I have not been here very long.

Getting back to the amendment, it is important that we have the rationale for growth and know how the Government reach their decisions. We cannot talk about this in the microcosm of a dry subject of forecasts. We cannot debate forecasts in this House; we can only debate judgments on how the Government arrive at those policies.

Postal Services Bill

Debate between Chris Evans and Nigel Evans

Wednesday 27th October 2010 Commons Chamber

[Chris Evans (Islwyn) (Lab/Co-op)]

I know that time is short, so I will be as quick as I can. I apologise to any Member if they cannot understand my accent.

This Bill is one of the great “might have beens.” It might have set out a positive policy on employee share ownership. Instead it does not tell us how the shares will be distributed and what employees can do with them. It might have strengthened the link between Royal Mail and Post Office Ltd. Instead it raises new concerns about the viability of many post offices.

The Government's plan for the wholesale privatisation of Royal Mail threatens to turn a public service into a private monopoly. The Government have come up with myriad reasons why Royal Mail should be privatised. First, we were told that privatisation was necessary because Royal Mail could not compete. Royal Mail delivers 99% of the mail to 28 million houses, six days a week. Which competitor in their right mind would want to take that on? The idea that Royal Mail is unable to compete with the private sector is complete and utter nonsense.

We were also told that the privatisation is the only way that Royal Mail can access capital, yet the entire modernisation programme of Royal Mail for the next three years is fully funded. Royal Mail is a profitable business and those profits could and should be retained for future investment.

The proposal to separate Royal Mail from Post Office Ltd, the postal service’s counter network, is of huge concern to many sub-postmasters throughout my constituency. Any retail network losing its main customer base would struggle to remain viable. The Post Office relies on Royal Mail for a third of its income and the fact is that a privatised Royal Mail will be free to use other outlets for its counter services. Should that be followed through, there will be mass closures among local post office branches, and I hope that the Government Members who said that they would campaign to save post offices are getting ready to campaign once the Bill goes through.

I welcome the proposal for mutualisation of Post Office Ltd, but that does not mean that I do not have reservations. Currently sub-postmasters have £2 billion of their own money invested in the post office network and it is vital that they be granted a far greater say in how Post Office Ltd is run. The success of the Co-operative Group provides an excellent model for Post Office mutualisation. However, any attempt at mutualisation would inevitably fail unless backed by solid actions to get the post office network on its feet, with a viable business model. There will be no mutual option for Post Office Ltd if there is no credible business plan. A 10-year inter-business agreement is an absolute must to ensure Post Office Ltd’s viability as both a business and a universal service provider, but the Government have so far refused to look at that. I hope that the Minister does that tonight.

The most important argument against the proposed sell-off is that the public do not want it. The polling is clear on that. They do not want it in Islwyn and they do not want it in the rest of the country. They understand that prices will go up and that the quality of postal services will go down if Royal Mail is sold, and they are right to take that view. The privatisation of Royal Mail makes no political or economic sense and the Bill is nothing but a wasted opportunity.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

Order. A couple of Members have sat here throughout the debate but, unfortunately, were not called. I know they will be disappointed, but I will make sure that this counts in their favour when they next put in to speak. I call Nia Griffith.