Business and the Economy

Debate between Chris Evans and Julian Smith

Monday 14th May 2012 Commons Chamber

[Chris Evans (Islwyn) (Lab/Co-op)]

If there were a parliamentary award for the most bizarre speech of the day, I am sure that the hon. Member for City of Chester (Stephen Mosley) would earn it. We have heard that the happy days are around the corner. We have double-dip recession, but it is okay, because it was all Labour’s fault, even though the economy was growing when Labour left power. Apparently, 1 million young people unemployed is good news. Wonderful! That is not the only thing we have heard; we have also been told that stripping people of their employment rights is the way forward. Is it not funny that when they have blamed everything else, they start blaming employment rights for our problems?

I say that the major aim of a Government of any colour should be to make this country the best place to start and grow a business. Yes, I agree that a cut in corporation tax is a good way forward. I believe that cutting red tape is a good idea, too, and I look forward to seeing more concrete proposals over this Parliament. When red tape is tackled, I hope that the Government will start to talk about tax reform. When I speak to anybody who is hoping to set up their own business, they tell me that the main barrier they face is the fear of the complex tax system that they will have to tackle. It seems strange, but the more complicated the tax system, the more there is only one winner. It is not the small business man; it is the accountant. It seems odd that small businesses have to spend time form filling when they could be chasing orders. We need to realise that, however good the Government believe they are, it is ultimately people who make businesses successful.

Talking of people, and young people in particular, we are now operating in a globalised economy. Young people in Wales will not be competing with young people from the north-east, the south-west, Scotland or Ireland; they will be competing with the Chinese, Indians and Brazilians. That is why our competitive edge is all about creating a highly skilled and highly motivated work force.

I have two friends—[Interruption.] Yes, I have only two friends; I would only have to borrow 20p and I could phone them both. The two friends in question work in the training industry. One works in further education; the other works for a training company. Both come from the old school, where it was said that an apprenticeship lasted four years. What they tell me worries me. My friend in FE says that some FE colleges are subcontracting training contracts to training companies, offering so-called apprenticeships that are supposed to last for three years, but saying that people can become a qualified electrician in a year. Courses that should take three years are being done in three months. All the while, people are driving around in their high-performance Mercedes and Aston Martins—no doubt bought out of the money that they should be investing in young people. This scandal is already going on, as we saw in a BBC “Panorama” programme. It should be seriously investigated, because this seems to me to be a misuse of the word “apprenticeship”.

The word “apprentice” conjures up images of the ’60s and ’70s and of young people between the age of 16 and 21 doing full-time apprenticeships and coming out as draftsmen, toolmakers or even, for the lucky few who aspired to it, with a footballing career. The problem is that people are being called apprentices nowadays when they are nothing of the sort. Why is it that of all the apprentices in this country, one in 10 is based in the supermarket Morrisons? Are they apprentices when they are working in retail? What skills are they getting? What trade are they developing?

[Julian Smith]

I am shocked that the hon. Gentleman does not feel that the sort of training people get in a supermarket like Morrisons would provide a very good basis for a whole range of jobs.

[Chris Evans]

What I would say is that that is not an apprenticeship in the traditional sense. I believe that the word “apprentice” is being misused. All that is happening is that apprenticeships are taking the place of the youth training schemes that failed in the 1980s.

This is the main point that I want to make. We must formalise the process that apprentices undergo. In the 1960s a UK training industry board formalised the apprentice system, producing training manuals and setting the standard for what apprenticeships should be. Now the definition is so muddled that we do not know what apprenticeships actually are, and that is why we must take serious action now. Recently I went to Pensord, in my constituency, where Pensord Press has launched a major apprenticeship scheme. I fear that good schemes like that will be mixed up in the scandal of our not knowing what “apprenticeships” means.

When I speak to people who take on apprentices, they tell me that they meet young people who do not have the necessary skills. They do not turn up on time, they play with their mobile phones during interviews, or they do not know how to speak to people; sometimes they swear in ordinary conversation. That worries me. I could talk for a long time about it. We need to hold a serious debate in this country about how business and education can work together.

I visited Cwmcarn high school when I worked for my predecessor, and it was launching what was described as a basic skills passport. All the children in the school would be assessed for literacy, numeracy, performance and public speaking, so that when they were interviewed by employers, they would be able to say “These are my skills: this is what I have achieved during my time at school.” It is a good scheme, and it should be rolled out throughout the country.

Last Friday I went for a chat with people at the University of Wales, Newport, who talked of universities’ becoming hothouses for businesses. I have always said that we have massive academic resources in research, and that we should open up the universities for that purpose. Those people talked to me about the concept of an entrepreneurial university, drawing a parallel with teaching hospitals where the practitioners are lecturers and students must undergo internships as part of their qualifications. That could be applied to skills in areas such as computing, engineering and business. I do not know whether anyone has watched the documentary about Ayrton Senna, but that was made by a student at the university, or the BBC programme “Rhod Gilbert’s Work Experience”, produced by a company called Zipline Creative— another company formed by some of its graduates. We need to have that debate about business and education.

I prepared a longer speech, but I have only 30 seconds left, so let me say just one more thing. We must be very careful when we talk about employment rights. I was a trade union official, and I do not think that we should clamp down on people who go to tribunals with trade union representatives. It is hard enough already for someone, even with a strong case, to undergo the grievance procedure. If we take the vital right to union representation away from people we will cause trouble, and we will do nothing for competitiveness in this country.