Elections (National Assembly for Wales)

Debate between Chris Evans and Albert Owen

Tuesday 3rd July 2012 Westminster Hall

[Albert Owen]

I did not single out the hon. Gentleman, but I am glad that he has intervened, because we miss his contributions. The fact that he is a PPS and is unable to contribute to debate is a sorry thing for this Parliament and this Chamber.

There is an important point about the lack of democracy when there are list Members. If we go to 30 seats in the parliamentary boundaries and they are coterminous, we should have dual membership. I disagree that it will give an advantage to the Labour party, because the electorate are sophisticated in Wales and they will make their choices. They have limited choices as to who their regional Members are. That is decided by party managers, which is what this Government want; they want to strengthen their grip over who gets elected to the Welsh Assembly.

[Chris Evans (Islwyn) (Lab/Co-op)]

In my own region and in the region of my hon. Friend the Member for Blaenau Gwent (Nick Smith), in south-east Wales, Labour consistently tops the poll on the regional list yet we do not have a single Labour regional AM. Is that democratic? Is that not ignoring the democratic will of the people?

[Albert Owen]

No, it is not democratic, but it was accepted by the electorate in Wales when we had a referendum. I accept that members of the public in Wales knew what they were voting for, but I do not accept having radical changes without going back to the people of Wales and having another referendum so that they can endorse or disagree with the principles. That would be real democracy.

Fuel Poverty

Debate between Chris Evans and Albert Owen

Wednesday 19th January 2011 Westminster Hall

[Chris Evans]

Yes, I agree. I will come to off-mains gas later, but let me just say that fuel poverty is really bad in rural areas, and the hon. Gentleman is right to raise the issue.

The impact of price rises on fuel-poor consumers, many of whom are in low-income households, will be devastating. It is likely to push thousands more people, including many pensioners, into fuel poverty.

As a Welsh Member of Parliament, I am deeply concerned that Wales is one of the parts of the UK that is most badly affected by fuel poverty. Many pensioners in Wales have illnesses such as heart disease and diabetes, and many living in constituencies such as mine are former miners with lung diseases. They often have high fuel bills because of their health problems and need to keep their homes at a much higher temperature than other people. That problem is made even worse in older and poorly insulated houses.

Older people in Wales bear the brunt of increases in fuel prices. In my constituency, there were an average of 41 excess winter deaths between 2003 and 2008. Across Wales, more than 1,700 people die in winter every year as a result of fuel poverty, and that figure is certain to rise.

National Energy Action estimates that about 28% of households in Caerphilly county borough, where my constituency is situated, are in fuel poverty and have to spend at least 10% of their income on energy to keep warm. Some 20% of the population does not have access to mains gas. About 40% of fuel-poor households in Wales are pensioner households, and 28% contain single pensioners—often widows and widowers—who are desperately trying to make ends meet. Those pensioners face a double whammy, because electricity prices in Wales are up to £25 a year higher than in England.

A recent report on fuel poverty among vulnerable groups produced by Consumer Focus Wales found that 75% of those with a long-term illness or disability suffer fuel poverty. Some 62% of those aged 65 and over were concerned about paying their winter energy bills and were also more likely to cut back on their energy use at home to save costs. Across the population, the figure was 54%. What is more, more than 50,000 households in Wales are in debt to electrical suppliers and more than 46,000 are in debt to gas suppliers. It should be pointed out that the report was compiled before the recent energy price announcements.

The hon. Member for Upper Bann (David Simpson) mentioned cancer sufferers, and Macmillan got in touch with me to say that cancer patients, in particular, are struggling to pay their energy bills. According to its research, seven out of 10 working-age cancer patients suffer reduced household income, losing 50% on average. It is estimated that about four in 10 cancer patients of working age do not return to work after treatment.

Higher utility bills are one of the major additional costs that cancer patients face. One in five people with cancer turn off their heating in the winter, even though they still need it on. One in four wears outdoor clothing indoors to stay warm and reduce energy bills. Cancer patients have higher heating bills. In a survey for Macmillan, 59% of respondents said they had used more fuel since being diagnosed with cancer. Three quarters of those said that that was because they felt the cold more, and a similar number said that it was because they spent more time at home after being diagnosed.

A statement by the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change on 15 December muddied the waters further. He informed the House that the budget for the Warm Front scheme in England is fully allocated for this financial year. We are told that the scheme is fully subscribed and will be unable to take new applications for the remainder of the current year. The reason is that the scheme has a substantial order book of work, which will take until at least March 2011 to complete.

Essentially, the major problem with fuel poverty is that people who are victims of it do not necessarily know that they are. That may seem a strange statement, but many accept the difficulties they live with. When I worked for the previous MP for Islwyn, Lord Touhig, we prepared for a debate on this topic, and spoke to the secretary of the National Old Age Pensioners Association of Wales to ask what effects fuel poverty had on his members. We were both surprised to discover that members simply accepted that rising fuel prices are a fact of life. Whey they get cold they simply have to slip on an extra pullover, or heat just one room. Therein lies the great problem with fuel poverty. It can be difficult even for energy companies to identify customers who are fuel-poor.

[Albert Owen (Ynys Môn) (Lab)]

My hon. Friend is making an important point about vulnerable groups such as pensioners. Indeed, prior to coming to the House, I worked with several agencies, including Age Concern, as it then was, to identify them. That is why a universal benefit such as the winter fuel payment is important. For all its flaws, it gets to those people, who are often very proud and do not make claims. They are difficult to get to. All hon. Members should work with agencies to maximise benefit take-up so that people can get the benefits they deserve to help them with fuel poverty.

[Chris Evans]

My hon. Friend makes an important point. The dignity of pensioners is astounding, but in many respects they do not help themselves, because sometimes they are too proud to claim the benefits they are entitled to. I have said to every pensioner I have spoken to: “If you are entitled to it, claim it.” Those people have served this country. Many are veterans. Some people have devoted their lives to industry. If there is a benefit and they deserve it, they should claim it.