Oral Answers to Questions

Charlotte Nichols Excerpts

Tuesday 8th October 2024 Commons Chamber

[Sarah Jones]

Last week was the historic week when 142 years of coal-fired electricity generation came to an end, and this week we have announced the new era of carbon capture and storage. We will work in a different way from the last Government, adopting a proactive approach to ensure that the transition works for people and that we create new jobs as well. At Grangemouth we provided a package of support for workers, and at Port Talbot we managed to negotiate a better deal than the last Government. We will use all the levers that we have—Great British Energy, the national wealth fund, the British jobs bonus and the office of green energy jobs that we have set up—to ensure that we get the transition right.

[Charlotte Nichols (Warrington North) (Lab)]

The Secretary of State and the Minister will know that civil nuclear has a higher employment multiplier than any other form of zero or low-carbon energy generation. As part of the transition from high-carbon sectors, what specific measures are the Government taking to retrain workers and transfer skills into the nuclear energy industry, thus ensuring that they benefit from job creation in this growing sector in my constituency and throughout the country?

[Sarah Jones]

Obviously the last Government did nothing about nuclear in 14 years, apart from coming up with a plan. We will ensure that nuclear is an important part of our country’s future, and we will be working to provide the right skills and jobs in the right places to deliver that.

Oral Answers to Questions

Charlotte Nichols Excerpts

Tuesday 16th January 2024 Commons Chamber

[Graham Stuart]

When my right hon. Friend thinks that something is important, she does not let it go. That message will go out clearly from this Chamber, and I will happily work with her to see whether we can find a resolution and give her the information and insight that she requires.

[Charlotte Nichols (Warrington North) (Lab)]

Following the recent state visit from the Korean President, when he identified nuclear as one of the key sectors for future collaboration in the UK-Korea trade deal, and the publication—albeit two years later than promised—of the civil nuclear road map last week, could the Minister please detail what conversations are taking place with the Department for Business and Trade to maximise inward investment opportunities for the nuclear supply chain in Warrington North and across the UK?

[Andrew Bowie]

I thank the hon. Lady for her question and for her support for our nuclear road map published last week. As she knows, we look forward to increasing the opportunities to co-operate with South Korea on civil nuclear, including on fuel supply chain safety, security, non-proliferation, decommissioning and the development of new reactors in both countries. That will benefit jobs and the supply chain around the UK, specifically where there is a strong history of a nuclear industry, such as in her constituency, which she champions.

Civil Nuclear Road Map

Charlotte Nichols Excerpts

Thursday 11th January 2024 Commons Chamber

[Andrew Bowie]

I would be delighted to visit the right hon. Lady’s constituency. Trawsfynydd has exciting potential as a site for an SMR, and for other nuclear licensed activities. It and many others are potential sites for the deployment of these new technologies in the years ahead.

[Charlotte Nichols (Warrington North) (Lab)]

As co-chair of the all-party parliamentary group on nuclear energy, I warmly welcome today’s publication of the long-awaited civil nuclear road map, in particular the exploration of alternative routes to market for SMRs and AMRs outside the Great British Nuclear scheme. On the delivery of large-scale projects, I am curious to know why the road map states on page 20 that the Government will need to wait for the Sizewell C final investment decision before they can set out timelines and processes for a new large-scale project in the UK. That formal work and engagement in the Minister’s team need not wait on the work of another team over which he does not have control or oversight. In the spirit of speeding up delivery, might he begin this work now in readiness for maximising the time we have left before 2050 to get this done?

[Andrew Bowie]

The hon. Lady can be assured that work is already beginning on identifying future sites for large-scale gigawatt power stations. We are committed to announcing more in due course.

Making Britain a Clean Energy Superpower

Charlotte Nichols Excerpts

Thursday 9th November 2023 Commons Chamber

[Claire Coutinho]

I thank my hon. Friend. We are working at pace to have the fastest competition possible. We have just moved past the first part of the process and will be setting out more details in the new year.

As the Government continue to consider our long-term energy security of the future, it is only right that we support our British oil and gas communities. Even the Climate Change Committee acknowledges that oil and gas will be part of our energy mix when we reach net zero in 2050. So if we will need it, it is common sense that we produce as much of our own of it here.

[Charlotte Nichols (Warrington North) (Lab)]

As chair of the all-party parliamentary group on nuclear energy, I hear that one of the biggest barriers to nuclear is not the investment that the Secretary of State talks about but planning and people. What will she do on that? I have not heard anything so far in what has been proposed to stop things such as judicial reviews going in to stop nuclear power stations being built.

[Claire Coutinho]

The hon. Lady is right to raise skills, people and planning. We have been looking at ways to speed all of that up and will be setting out more details by the end of the year.

The King’s Speech included legislation for awarding oil and gas licences each year, giving industry the certainty it needs to invest in jobs here in the UK.

--- Later in debate ---

[Charlotte Nichols (Warrington North) (Lab)]

The King’s Speech was interesting as much for what was in it as what was not. I welcome the announcement of measures to ensure that violent sex offenders serve their full sentence behind bars, for example. In fact, that was my ask in my first Prime Minister’s question, three Prime Ministers and four Home Secretaries ago, in March 2020. I hope the Government will focus on delivering the prison places we need for that commitment to be worth the paper it is written on, given our current context.

The announcement on leasehold reform is also something I have been calling for since I was elected. It will be warmly welcomed by many of my constituents who are affected, although we see that the proposals will not include new flats and it is unclear what they mean for retirement properties and park homes. I hope we can address those issues when they come before the House for debate to ensure that we get it right. The independent regulator for football is also long overdue, and warmly welcomed.

So the King’s Speech is not all bad. In fact, my largest criticism is its thinness. Even if we choose to ignore—as the Prime Minister conveniently does—the previous 12 years of Tory Government, with all the chaos of the last year in the House and in Whitehall, with the succession of different Prime Ministers, Secretaries of State and other Ministers cycling in and out of Departments, we have seen a year of inertia on some of the biggest issues facing our communities and our country.

This King’s Speech was an opportunity for the Government to show real ambition and purpose in the time that we have left before an election. Of course I hope we will see a change of Government at that election, but my constituents cannot wait for a change of Government. I remain as willing as I have always been to work across parties on the issues that affect them now to help them now, but trying to make meaningful change on the issues on which we do have cross-party consensus does not seem to be on the Government’s agenda.

The starkest example of that is the mental health Bill that was so shamefully missing from the King’s speech. Mental health is one of the issues about which I am contacted most frequently, and it comes up at every single weekly surgery and event that I hold in Warrington North, whether it involves carers, scouts, sports clubs, veterans’ groups, schools or faith groups. I have heard so many harrowing stories about how so many are being let down. I hear of young people languishing on child and adolescent mental health services waiting lists for years, only to drop back down to the bottom of the list—the adult list—when they turn 18. I hear of suicidal people finding themselves criminalised during their attempts to end their own lives, and of people who are told that they are not suicidal enough to access any support. I hear of specialist treatment for conditions such as post-traumatic stress disorder being unavailable, or only accessible privately at huge cost. And I hear of the shameful ongoing detention of autistic people and those with learning disabilities, who would be better cared for and supported in the community. Harm is perpetuated every day that the outdated and unfit Mental Health Act 1983 remains on the statute book without reform.

It will be helpful if I set out the background. The Government announced an independent review of the Mental Health Act in 2017. The review completed its findings in 2018, and the Government published their response in the form of a White Paper in 2021. In 2022, they followed up the White Paper with a draft Mental Health Bill, on which pre-legislative scrutiny began last year. The Joint Committee on the Draft Mental Health Bill published a report on its findings in January 2023.

It is easy to understand why all those mental health charities such as Mind, patient advocacy groups and people with lived experience of our broken mental health system view the Bill’s exclusion from the King’s Speech as such a kick in the teeth. After more than six years of work and engagement and cross-party support for change, not only is mental health reform not a priority for the remainder of this Parliament, but the lack of its inclusion in the King’s Speech means that it is now highly unlikely that the legislation will be passed before a general election. Too many in this place, and in Government, seem to view mental health as something abstract that happens to other people. It is not good enough.

Another stark omission—I have had hundreds of emails from constituents about this, and it has broad cross-party support—is a ban on the abhorrent practice of so-called conversion therapy. If the Government are worried about a row with some of the crank elements within their own party, they can be assured that Labour Members will help to ensure that a Bill passes on to the statute book, thus securing the protection of some of the most vulnerable members of the LGBT community.

There was also nothing in the King’s Speech about a review leading to reform of personal independence payments, despite the fact that, 10 years since its introduction, the flaws in the scheme are well known and have a real impact on people who need support. People with multiple sclerosis and many other conditions are routinely failed by PIP assessments because their symptoms fluctuate from day to day. One of my constituents emailed me recently to say that he had not been able to receive PIP in the years since his diagnosis, despite the additional costs associated with his disability—which is exactly what PIP is meant to help people with. He wrote:

“I have to use crutches everywhere I go. My wife is an unpaid carer. I work from home and although I earn a wage, I feel like the application process is blaming me for having this disease. The condition can result in one day a change in my physical appearance, speech and completing simple day to day activities. Then the next day I can do the normal things and routines that people take for granted. MS is unpredictable hourly and at a moment’s notice”.

His experience is sadly not unique. The Department for Work and Pensions loses 70% of cases that it rejects on appeal, and in about 91% of those cases the claimant has won without any new evidence being provided. Getting the process right would mean that those who need help were not subjected to a dehumanising and often arbitrary process to secure the help to which they are entitled, and that valuable civil service time was not spent fighting clearly legitimate claimants. Surely that is something that all of us can agree should be a priority.

Despite reassurances that the measures in the dropped Animal Welfare (Kept Animals) Bill would be returning, only one element of it was included as the sole animal welfare measure in the planned Bills announced for this Session, with other manifesto commitments left outstanding. Again, those measures had cross-party support, as well as widespread support from the animal welfare charity sector. I have had thousands upon thousands of items of constituency correspondence about animal welfare. I implore the Government: help us to help you make some progress, and bring more measures forward.

For the sake of brevity, and because the points have been made so cogently by colleagues on both sides of the House—including my right hon. Friend the Member for Doncaster North (Edward Miliband); the right hon. Member for Kingswood (Chris Skidmore), who, to his credit, was not just reading from the CCHQ brief; and my hon. Friend the Member for Washington and Sunderland West (Mrs Hodgson)—I will simply point to how much willingness there is to co-operate on making the UK a clean energy superpower. But the focus in the King’s Speech on oil and gas when new legislation is not actually needed to achieve the Government’s stated aims, in an attempt to use energy as a wedge issue, is beneath the Government when there is so much more we could be doing to accelerate new nuclear, renewables and hydrogen, which has not been prioritised in the same way in the parliamentary time that this will consume.

I am somewhat bemused by the prominence given to the Trade (Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership) Bill in the King’s Speech, given that CPTPP membership is projected to add just 0.06% to Britain’s long-term GDP—welcome, of course, though any boost to the economy is. As a member of the Business and Trade Committee, frustrated, like many of my fellow members, by a lack of parliamentary scrutiny on trade, I would like to ask whether the Government have ensured that Parliament will have had the opportunity to debate the CPTPP trade agreement, and to vote on a substantive motion on the terms of our accession, before the Bill comes to the House.

I am grateful for the opportunity to respond to the Gracious Speech. I hope, perhaps naively, that its thinness will be corrected in the autumn statement with funded measures to help my constituents with the cost of living and the construction of a new hospital in Warrington, and to support the greening and growing of our economy locally and nationally as a priority. Let us not waste the opportunity to make progress in the time that we have left. If we are to maximise the potential of this Session, there are, as I have said, plenty of areas in which we can co-operate on a cross-party basis to do so, even if the King’s Speech itself missed the opportunity to set out a robust and ambitious framework for that purpose. With another year of more of the same, my constituents and I will be left wondering why this Government are so determined to cling to power to deliver so little, when Labour is ready and waiting to give Britain its future back.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Minister for Industry and Economic Security (Ms Nusrat Ghani)]

It is a pleasure to close today’s debate on the King’s Speech on behalf of the Government and even more of a joy to be representing Wealden, my constituency, in doing so. There have been fantastic and insightful speeches from Members on both sides of the House—19 in total—and I will do my best to run through all the points raised. These debates are a moment for both anticipation and reflection; we welcomed King Charles to open Parliament for the first time, and looked forward to his reign, while remembering the late Queen and her many decades of public service.

The last time a King opened Parliament was back in 1951. Because I do not sleep much, I glanced through Hansard to see what was discussed then, when the Government’s focus was—as it is now—on protecting prosperity, safeguarding key industries and protecting UK interests at home and abroad. Just like Winston Churchill’s Government seven decades ago, we must turn our minds to similar issues, finding 21st century solutions to age-old questions, many of which were addressed by colleagues today.

Let me turn to my right hon. Friend the Member for Basingstoke (Dame Maria Miller), who has huge experience and secures respect on both sides of the House. It was interesting that she reflected on the political sketch by the right hon. Member for Doncaster North (Edward Miliband), who politicised the energy debate just as he politicised the NHS back when he was running for leader. We were hoping for a grown-up conversation, but unfortunately he turned it into a political sketch—[Interruption.] And he is continuing to do so now, which is a shame.

It was good to hear my right hon. Friend the Member for Basingstoke acknowledge that we are world leaders in offshore wind and other renewables, especially small modular reactors and fusion energy, and to hear about her recent experience in Canada as our trade envoy. She reflected on battery plants and storage, and will be pleased to know that I will publish the battery strategy shortly. She reflected on critical minerals—she knows I published a critical minerals strategy recently—because we cannot have a net zero agenda without them. She also asked about the NPPF; we got a note back to say that it is on its way. Of course, that is not within my remit, but I do not doubt that her words have been acknowledged.

Let me reflect on the comments made by my right hon. Friend the Member for Kingswood (Chris Skidmore) and his tremendous work on the Skidmore review. I agree that we have earned a reputation in the UK as leaders in achieving net zero, and now that reputation needs to be preserved. It is indeed a race, and we started off fast so we need to ensure that we continue ahead of the game. He also reflected on the Inflation Reduction Act, which has changed the game plan—I know that, as the Industry Minister—and the challenges it poses for supply chains. It is unfortunate that this will be his last King’s Speech debate, but I do not doubt that we will hear his voice on this agenda.

The hon. Member for Brent North (Barry Gardiner) talked about cross-party consensus—who can disagree with that?—and about energy bills; a huge amount of work has been done to cover energy costs, and we will continue to provide people with support as we can.

My hon. Friend the Member for Banff and Buchan (David Duguid) talked about long-term decisions. Stability should be at the forefront of our minds, not the short-term decisions with short-term outcomes that seem to be the most popular. He reflected on growing the economy; on energy security; on being measured, which means having a mix of energy in the system; and on the dependence on gas and oil, and ensuring that they are in the mix. He talked about protecting power stations, including the one in his constituency, and about the importance of having oil and gas to ensure that we are not reliant on imported fuel but can rely on ourselves.

The hon. Member for Brighton, Pavilion (Caroline Lucas), gave a speech that was far more ideological than embedded in the reality of people’s lives, and did not reflect at all on our track record on getting to net zero and reducing emissions. I always find it curious that people talk about resilience but are prepared to let other markets boom at the cost of markets being invested in and jobs being grown here in the UK.

My hon. Friend the Member for The Cotswolds (Sir Geoffrey Clifton-Brown), who is a dear friend and an incredibly powerful treasurer of the 1922 committee, spoke about tax-free shopping. I am sure that Treasury Ministers were listening and will respond in due course.

The hon. Member for Washington and Sunderland West (Mrs Hodgson) spoke about Nissan; later I will speak about the investments made by the automotive sector, including Nissan, and some of the challenges not only around energy but fundamentally around supply chains. I have been working with industry and the automotive sector on providing more resilience in supply chains to get the minerals and critical products needed into the UK, so that we can continue to manufacture.

My hon. Friend the Member for Harrow East (Bob Blackman), who is also a member of the 1922 committee, talked about good administration versus having lots of policy. He is absolutely right; we need to ensure that we can administrate well, and if that requires working in collaboration, it must be done. He mentioned the lack of previous investment in nuclear, and said that we need to move at pace to ensure an energy mix in the UK. He must also be commended for his work on tackling homelessness and dealing with leasehold issues.

The hon. Member for Coventry North East (Colleen Fletcher) felt underwhelmed by the policies set out in the King’s Speech. Hopefully she will be overwhelmed by the work now being done by the Government to ensure we deliver for our constituents across the country.

My hon. Friend the Member for North Norfolk (Duncan Baker) talked about Bacton gas terminal, which the Prime Minister visited very recently. My hon. Friend fundamentally believes the site should be the most senior hydrogen hub in the UK. No doubt his campaigning will enable that to be delivered for his constituents.

The hon. Member for Warrington North (Charlotte Nichols) is a fellow member of my Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy Committee. She said that the King’s Speech was not all bad—I always think that is a good place to start. She spoke about mental health and many other issues, but I look forward to continuing to work with her, as we did previously on steel and the supply chain.

[Charlotte Nichols]

I thank the Minister for giving way. She referred earlier to the politicisation of energy. Unfortunately, the Secretary of State inadvertently misled the House in her own opening remarks with the comments she made about Warrington Council’s exposure in the administration of Together Energy. The £37 million bill she quoted is entirely wrong, something I have had confirmed as one of Warrington’s MPs. Will the Minister take the opportunity to correct the record on behalf of the Secretary of State?

[Ms Ghani]

I am sure that putting that forward now means that the record will reflect it. If it was not £37 million, I dread to think what it was.

My hon. Friend the Member for Totnes (Anthony Mangnall) made a fantastic comment that maybe all the members of the Business and Trade Committee should be Privy Counsellors—yes, but only if previous members of the BEIS Committee are offered that, too. He spoke about the fact that we should not forget about the growth in our economy—it has grown by 78% since 1990—and the 46% reduction in emissions. We must be positive and promote what we have been able to achieve. He spoke about marine energy and maritime power linking into a local church. I am intrigued—I want to be invited to come by and take a look.

There were contributions from the hon. Member for Nottingham East (Nadia Whittome) and—forgive my pronunciation—the hon. Member for Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath (Neale Hanvey). I think it is best that the SNP Members reflect on the points that he raised. The hon. Member for Jarrow (Kate Osborne) spoke, as did the hon. Members for Wakefield (Simon Lightwood) and for Gordon (Richard Thomson). I never thought we would end up on an SNP love story, but we are all going to be thinking about that over the weekend.

I am anxious about how much time I have left to speak. I am closing the debate as a Business and Trade Minister, and have many more opportunities coming up to help ensure that we deliver on growing the economy and achieving net zero. We have a couple of programmes of work that were reflected in the King’s Speech in the Trade (Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership) Bill and the Digital Markets, Competition and Consumers Bill.

Turning to the subject of today’s debate, the Government are already turning the country into a clean energy superpower. “Already” is the important word there, because while the Opposition might try to claim otherwise, this work is well under way. Let me remind the House of the formidable record we are building on. The UK achieved the fastest rate of greenhouse gas emission reductions of all G7 countries, while renewables already generated over 48% of our electricity in the first quarter of this year—the highest ever level. Of course, we know we can and must go further, which is why the UK has one of the world’s most ambitious 2030 targets. However, the Government are also acutely aware that we cannot ask our citizens and businesses to pay undue burdens for achieving our net zero goals, particularly in these challenging economic times. Nor can we ignore the fact that Putin’s war of aggression means that we are living in a more dangerous world with far more complicated supply chains. As the Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero has already explained, it is only right that we reduce our reliance on volatile international energy markets and hostile regimes. She will be doing so through legislation such as the Offshore Petroleum Licensing Bill.

The Opposition talk about strategies and plans, so let me remind the House that the Government have them in abundance. In fact, the Government’s green strategies aim to drive £100 billion of private sector investment into our green industrial base by 2030, supporting around 480,000 jobs by the same date. I am surprised the Opposition are not welcoming that.

However, the Government are not just focusing on words; they are taking action. Between 2020 and 2023, my Department alone supported more than £28 billion of net zero-related inward investment, creating 30,000 jobs. Thanks to our work, the country’s economic geography is also shifting—from clean technology development in the midlands, offshore wind in the north-east and Scotland and turbine manufacturers in Hull, to innovative hydrogen-powered buses in Northern Ireland. With the North sea transition deal, the Government are helping workers, businesses and the supply chain in fossil fuel-related industries to adapt to a net zero future, providing £20 billion of funding to encourage the early deployment of carbon capture, usage and storage, and to unlock private investment and jobs. Whether we are talking about our recently announced plans for carbon capture clusters in the north-west and north-east, the first 15 winning projects to receive investment from the Government’s £240 million net zero hydrogen fund, the port towns that stand to benefit from the £160 million-worth of floating offshore wind manufacturing schemes, or our freeports and investment zones, our policies are creating jobs, reinvigorating communities and opening horizons the length and breadth of the country.

It would be remiss of me not to talk about my own brief, which covers industries and, fundamentally, the automotive, aerospace and maritime sectors. Here again, my Department is playing an instrumental role. We recently announced a joint investment package with Tata Steel, worth £1.25 billion, to replace end-of-life blast furnaces with electric arc furnace steel production. That will preserve steelmaking for generations to come and enable green steel production to take place in the UK. While we are helping manufacturers, including steel producers, to access lower-cost hydrogen through the net zero hydrogen fund, we are also enabling our world-renowned automotive sector to seize the opportunities of the net zero transition. For instance, we have the automotive transformation fund from the Advanced Propulsion Centre, and the Faraday battery challenge. That has unlocked investment into the UK. Stellantis is producing electric vans at its Ellesmere Port plant, the first factory to be dedicated to the manufacture of electric vehicles, BMW Group is investing £600 million to bring two new all-electric Mini models to Oxford by 2026, and Tata has announced a £4 billion investment in Europe’s largest here in the UK. All that shows what our strategies are already providing.

Energy Bill [ Lords ] (Seventh sitting)

Charlotte Nichols Excerpts

Committee stage
Thursday 8th June 2023 Public Bill Committees

[Dr Whitehead]

Yes. The various retail energy companies that have been responsible for the roll-out have in many instances tried their hardest, but they have been overcome by the sort of obstacles that the hon. Member mentions. For example, in an urban environment, meters may be in the basement of a block of flats and then somehow the smart meter is supposed to communicate from the 7th floor to the meters in the basement—the arrangements between the meter and the householder. That is over and above the problems with radio signals and phone signals that there have been in the north of England.

The roll-out is 55% after nine years of active operation, so let us say that that goes on at the same rate, although it very probably will not, because we have captured all the low-hanging fruit as far as smart meters are concerned, and smart meters are getting more and more difficult to install.

[Charlotte Nichols (Warrington North) (Lab)]

My hon. Friend the shadow Minister is making an important point about where smart meters cannot always be installed and some of the difficulties that there have been in this process. I am sure that both he and the Secretary of State will be aware of the situation in the area around RAF Fylingdales, for example, where, because of the strength of some of the radio technology used there, people cannot get a smart meter in something like a 40-mile radius of the airbase. Does he think that the Government considered such things when they put in the 2019 target that they have so spectacularly failed to hit?

[Dr Whitehead]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right: the Government did not consider that. There were discussions at the time of the earlier smart meter roll-out about radio systems that could get over precisely those problems by patching in—that is, going on the back of a good radio signal and patch in on the next radio signal, where the overwhelming radio signal is against signals operating properly. But that decision was not made at the time. It was a one-frequency signal for the south of England and phone arrangements for the north of England, with the results that we now see.

Halfway through the roll-out it was decided to change the specification of the meter itself. Because the process of changing the specification was so slow, a number of retail companies that had large stocks of the original meters continued to install the SMETS1 meters long after they should have stopped installing them—just because they had those stocks, which the new specification had not got round to replacing because of the delays in the so-called SMETS2 meters coming on to the market and being installed. Consequently, a number of meters are still not operating in smart mode, because they are either awaiting update or replacement so that they can go into the smarter system. Of the 31.3 million smart and advanced meters that are currently in homes, only 28.1 million are operating in smart mode. The roll-out is worse than it looks from the overall statistics.

What do we do about all that? The Government have put a clause in the Bill that simply says to retail companies, “Okay, we are going to give you more of the same. We are going to regulate you and give you targets”—which, by and large, the retail companies are not achieving—“and if you don’t achieve those targets we are going to fine you and whip you harder to ensure you achieve them.” Frankly, if we go on in the present direction we will get to 2028, and we do not need detailed maths to demonstrate that we will not be much further forward in the roll-out.

That is important because, in terms of the use of smart meters across the board to collect aggregate data for marking our system as a whole, we probably need about 70% penetration to get the figures right under the circumstances. We are way away from that, and we will be for a quite some time. We may well have a situation where our smart systems are racing ahead, but the means of communication on those smart systems are not, thus the smart system itself is compromised in the medium to long term.

Amendment 100 seeks to put some options in front of the Government. It states that

“the Secretary of State must produce and lay before Parliament a report setting out options for securing a guaranteed roll-out of smart meters to at least 70% of premises in all regions and nations of the United Kingdom by 2025.”

That is a reasonable target to try and aim for. Not that we would necessarily adopt this approach right now, but the amendment then states that the report must consider, among other options, different ways of rolling out smart meters for the future.

Members may push back substantially on obligatory smart meter installation. Do we transfer responsibility for the remaining smart meter roll-outs from the retail companies, perhaps to distribution network operators? That would put an end to the current system, in which literally four or five installers could go up the same street on the same day to try to install smart meters on different premises, depending on what retail company the person was with. There would instead be one body that would be installing smart meters in the various regions, and doing so in a much more systematic way. By the way, a lot of the to-ing and fro-ing that goes on when someone switches supplies to their smart meter, and how that can be transferred in an operable way, would be ended as well.

I am on record from about 2015, I think, saying that it was not a bright idea to have given the roll-out of the smart meter system to energy retailers, and that it should have been given to distribution network operators at that particular point. That is now a widespread view, and, looking back with the wisdom of Captain Hindsight, it is something that we should have considered. We can still consider it now because smart meters are not owned by the companies that install them. They pretty much all employ third parties, which actually own the meters in people’s homes, to run them. We could relatively easily —without transferring the ownership of the smart meters from those third parties—transfer the contracting agent from energy retail companies to district network operators.

The Minister is a little less advanced in years than I am, and may not remember the switchover in television lines from 405 to 625. That was basically accomplished by saying, “You can keep a 405 line television—you don’t have to have a 625 one—but it might not work in a few years’ time if you have kept your 405 TV.” The switchover was accomplished pretty much in good time, and universally. We are asking the Government for a report that considers all the different options for getting us out of the hole that we are in regarding the smart meter roll-out, to ensure that smart meters can fully play the role that we want them to play in our future low-carbon energy economy, and that we have the means to do that and can confidently come back with something better than the flog-a-sickly-horse routine in the amendment.

I hope the Minister will have a positive response to the amendment. I feel so fed up with yet again considering a Bill that just seeks more of the same that I am tempted to press it to a Division if he is unable to come substantially towards what we are saying regarding the future of smart meters. It is that important. I am trying to ensure that some Government Members go home so that we can win, but obviously it is up to the Minister how far he can come towards that view regarding the future of smart meters.