Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Section 35 Power

Charlotte Nichols Excerpts

Tuesday 17th January 2023 Commons Chamber

[Charlotte Nichols (Warrington North) (Lab)]

The document that the Government have published is a policy statement, not a legal document—and one so thin that it is absolutely translucent, especially for such an unprecedented unilateral action in the invocation of the section 35 power. Frankly, I have been disgusted by a lot of the tone of today’s debate. I am very interested to hear a lot of people suddenly become massive defenders of equality, including the hon. Member for Don Valley (Nick Fletcher). I remember being in a Westminster Hall debate with him when he said that Dr Who being a woman was turning boys gay, among other ridiculous arguments.

[Nick Fletcher]

rose—

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

Is the hon. Lady giving way?

[Charlotte Nichols]

I will not give way, actually. I think we have heard more than enough—

[Nick Fletcher]

That is not what I said!

[Charlotte Nichols]

Yes it is—

[Nick Fletcher]

Withdraw!

[Charlotte Nichols]

I will not withdraw it—

[Nick Fletcher]

Hansard will show that is not—

--- Later in debate ---

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

With regard to the point of order, which obviously the hon. Gentleman was addressing to me to say that he felt that what had been said was incorrect, my response is that if the hon. Lady at any point feels, when she goes back to look at the debate, that what she has said has unintentionally misled the House, she will correct the record. I am taking her word for it that she will do that.

[Charlotte Nichols]

Thank you very much, Madam Deputy Speaker. On checking Hansard, I see that the hon. Member actually said that Dr Who being a woman was turning boys towards a life of crime. Clearly, it was a matter of misogyny rather than homophobia. However, I am very sorry for having inadvertently misled the House in accusing the hon. Member, in a very legitimate comment that I made about his brand-new respect for our equality legislation, in having made a remark that was misogynist rather than, in fact, homophobic. I apologise for that omission.

[Miriam Cates]

Will the hon. Lady give way?

[Charlotte Nichols]

I will not give way; we have heard more than enough from the hon. Member today.

I would like to talk about the substance of the policy statement, because it is an absolute joke. I declare an interest as an LGBT woman—as someone who is myself LGBT and exists—something that has been forgotten entirely in this debate by people who are trying to draw a false distinction between the rights of women and the rights of LGBT people, including trans people.

I am afraid I do not have the time I would like to have to go through all the clauses, which, as I have said, are so flimsy as to be ridiculous—including clause 20, which I am calling the “computer says no” clause because, as the hon. Member for Glasgow Central (Alison Thewliss) pointed out earlier, it says that the law cannot be changed because the computer system could not handle it. The computer system should be changed to abide by the law, not the other way round. These potential adverse impacts are flimsy, this piece of paper is an absolute nonsense, and, as I have said, there is no justification whatsoever for such an unprecedented action as invoking section 35.

--- Later in debate ---

[Alan Brown (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (SNP)]

First and foremost, this is an attack on devolution. It is an attack on elected Members of the Scottish Parliament, and it is an attack made by the Scottish Secretary, who has never respected the institution of the Scottish Parliament in the first place. He has always thought that Westminster is more important, and that it has primacy over the Scottish Parliament. This is the same Scottish Secretary who tells us that we have the most powerful devolved Parliament in the world, when we do not even have the most powerful devolved Parliament in the UK. The Northern Ireland settlement gave much greater powers in relation to pensions and rights over the Union, to name but two areas.

When we listen to the arguments in the Chamber today, we hear the right-wing Tories standing up and pretending to speak for women’s rights. Right-wing Tories are part of a culture war. Right-wing Tories have the cheek to say that we have manufactured a constitutional debate. How can we have manufactured a constitutional debate when two thirds of those elected to the Scottish Parliament voted for gender recognition reform?

[Charlotte Nichols]

rose—

[Alan Brown]

I cannot give way; we do not have enough time.

This is absolutely grievance politics and a culture war from the Tories. And then we get the “clutching at straws” statement of reasons. Somebody tried to say that this was legal advice, but it is not. Everybody knows that if you pay a lawyer, you can get them to write what you want. That is what this is: a list of bogus reasons for the Scottish Secretary to introduce this section 35 order.

Let us look at the equal pay section, which is unbelievable. It says that transgender people are going to cause problems with equal pay because if somebody transitions and becomes a transgender woman, they might have been on higher pay before and that could affect claims. It also says that someone transitioning could affect somebody else’s equal pay claim because they cannot use that person as a benchmark. Talking about manufactured grievances, you could not make that up. That must happen just now with people who have already got a GRC, so if it does not undermine equal pay settlements just now, how can the GRR undermine equal pay settlements?

The bottom line is this: you know you are on the right side of an argument when the opposite side is that lot over there on the Government Benches. They are comparing trans people to predators, and that is an utter disgrace. You also know you are on the right side of the argument when Amnesty International, Close the Gap, Engender, the Human Rights Consortium, JustRight Scotland, NUS Scotland, One Parent Families Scotland, Rape Crisis Scotland, the Scottish Trades Union Congress, the Scottish Refugee Council, Scottish Women’s Aid, the Scottish Women’s Convention, the Scottish Women’s Rights Centre, the Young Women’s Movement and Zero Tolerance are on the same side as us.

Question put.