NHS (Government Spending)

Charlie Elphicke Excerpts

Wednesday 28th January 2015 Commons Chamber

[Chris Leslie]

The right hon. Gentleman raises a number of issues there. He has plenty to puzzle over, and he will always be a puzzled individual. The bigger question is where is the Secretary of State for Health when we are talking about these particular issues? [Hon. Members: “There!”] There he is. He is so anonymous he just did not make any impact on me whatever. I am delighted that he has walked in. He is quite unforgettable, isn’t he?

The NHS has experienced problems not just in accident and emergency departments, as has been said, but across a series of services: missed cancer treatment targets for three successive quarters—15,000 people having to wait longer than the recommended 62 days to start their cancer treatment in the past year. It has not always been like this.

[Charlie Elphicke (Dover) (Con)]

rose—

[Chris Leslie]

The Government inherited a situation in which 98% of patients were seen in accident and emergency departments within four hours. While one in four patients is now waiting a week to see their GP, when Labour left office the vast majority were seen within 48 hours. In January, we know that 14 NHS trusts declared major incident status. [Interruption.] The urgent question today did not really provide the opportunity to clarify the exact words in the NHS England document, so I want to take this opportunity to do so on behalf of my right hon. Friend the shadow Secretary of State.

[Charlie Elphicke]

rose—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. Members shouting, and then expecting to intervene, do not display great wisdom. The hon. Gentleman can probably do better, and he should certainly try to do so, within the limits of his capacity.

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[Chris Leslie]

I am glad that my hon. Friend mentions the situation with GP numbers, which is another factor in the NHS infrastructure being under such pressure.

Let us look at what has been happening with GP numbers, which are not keeping up with demand in the rising population. In 2009, there were 62 GPs for every 100,000 people; that has now fallen to 59 and a half GPs per 100,000 people. We have also seen cuts to GP training. It is no wonder that the Government ditched the 48-hour guarantee for people to be able to see a GP.

[Charlie Elphicke]

rose—

[Chris Leslie]

I will give way to the hon. Gentleman if he can explain why the Government dropped the pledge that patients, including his constituents in Dover, should be able to see their GP within 48 hours.

[Charlie Elphicke]

Can the hon. Gentleman explain why he, rather than the shadow Health Secretary, is leading this debate? Is it because the shadow Health Secretary is reported to be clinging to his job, without any guarantees from the Leader of the Opposition?

[Chris Leslie]

There you have it, Madam Deputy Speaker. Government Members are not concerned in any way about the state of the NHS or about GPs, but only about asking questions about procedure and process. I am here today because the shadow Treasury team, like every shadow departmental team on the Labour Front Bench, is committed to supporting our NHS and to making sure that we get the investment that is needed.

Why is the situation so fragile? The Government scrapped NHS Direct and fragmented it into 46 separate, cut-price 111 contracts, which does not ensure that 60% of calls are dealt with by medical staff. That figure is now down to 20%. It is no wonder patients are so quickly being driven back to—[Interruption.]

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[Dr Poulter]

I am going to make some progress. I will give way to the right hon. Gentleman later. I have been very generous and I need to make some progress. I remind him that under the previous Labour Government, as my hon. Friend the Member for St Austell and Newquay (Stephen Gilbert) highlighted quite rightly, NHS providers were paid less than private sector providers. The right hon. Gentleman and the previous Labour Government paid the private sector 11% more than the NHS for performing the same NHS operations—something we have clearly outlawed under our legislation.

If we needed a further reminder of what Labour does when it runs the health service we need only look at Wales today, where almost every indicator of NHS performance shows that the Welsh NHS, run by Labour, is performing poorly when compared with the NHS in England. While we protected and increased our NHS budget in England, Labour in Wales has cut the NHS budget and patients are paying the price. Thanks to Labour in Wales, people have to wait about 100 days longer than patients in England for knee and hip operations. On finances and on care, Labour has let down our hard-working NHS staff and patients in Wales by its lack of investment in front-line services.

[Charlie Elphicke]

Will my hon. Friend give way?

[Dr Poulter]

I will give way one more time, but I do need to make some progress.

[Charlie Elphicke]

I am sure the Minister would agree that the shadow Health Secretary could have opened this debate, rather than trying to intervene now in a desperate way. Does my hon. Friend also recall the shadow Secretary of State, when he was Health Secretary in 2009, saying that we can

“move beyond the polarising debates of the last decade over private or public sector provision”?

That is what he said then. What does he say these days?

[Dr Poulter]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. The fact that the shadow Health Secretary’s colleague, the hon. Member for Nottingham East, opened the debate perhaps shows a lack of confidence. The shadow Health Secretary’s record is very difficult to defend.

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[Charlie Elphicke (Dover) (Con)]

When I was first campaigning in Dover and Deal, I found that the previous Government’s legacy was that they had run down the much-loved Buckland hospital in Dover. Wards had been axed one by one; services had been withdrawn one by one; and the hospital had been decimated for more than a decade. There had been talk of plans to build a new hospital, but they had gone nowhere for the better part of a decade. It was a total disgrace; we did not get a fair share of health care in Dover and Deal.

In addition, an agreement appeared to have been made by the hospital trust in 2006 to take away the out-patient services at Deal’s hospital. There were claims of a consultation with the then MP and the then elected representatives to withdraw those out-patient services. So when I was elected I faced a situation where the hospital trust wanted to axe out-patient services and people were very concerned that Deal’s hospital was so undermined that it would be lost altogether. That was unacceptable.

What did the Conservatives do about it? Thanks to our funding of the NHS—the amount of money we have put in and the increase in spending in real terms—we managed to get a new hospital built and it opens in March. That is a real achievement, ensuring that we will have a fairer share of health care back in Dover. After the years of going backwards, we will go forwards, and people in our community will be able to be seen and cared for in our community. Rather than have Deal’s hospital being run down and closed, as people feared, because Labour left it teetering on the edge, we campaigned hard.

I undertook a large survey across the whole of Deal and I listened to people’s views. Thousands responded and we had hundreds in a meeting in a church to listen to the doctors and put the case for keeping the hospital, and now the clinical commissioning group, using its new funding powers, is ensuring that that hospital is safeguarded for the future. In that way, under the Conservatives, we have safeguarded Deal’s hospital and we are getting a new Dover hospital.

We also had difficult times in our local hospital trust—the East Kent Hospitals University NHS Foundation Trust had the CQC come in and investigate. In the past there would have been a cover-up and things would all have been swept under the carpet, just as they were in Staffordshire. That was the disgrace under the previous Government; the shadow Health Secretary oversaw that shameful episode. This Government have been open, honest and frank about the situation, and have ensured that special measures are taken and that we will have more nurses, more investment and better health care as a result. That is an important milestone. It shows not only that we have a new Dover hospital and that we have safeguarded Deal’s hospital, but that we have a better trust thanks to the reforms the Government have put in place.

But I think we should go further. I want to see five-star health care in Dover and Deal, so that rather than the cold wards of old, we should have new individual care and recovery suites, which can enable flexibility. People could be there for short-time observation; for step-down care for a week or two, rather than blocking up the acute hospital; for re-ambulation over a two to three-month period; or for much longer-term palliative care or perhaps end-of-life care. I am working with Kent county council, the local CCG and other health stakeholders to examine how we can bring forward that sort of innovative proposal. It will help with NHS funding because it will save money lost through bed-blocking; it will save money because its beds will be less expensive than elsewhere in the NHS; and it will provide a better experience for patients because they will be able to get better and recover within the community.

We need to rethink A and E more generally, by having more local emergency centres. My plan is that at the new Dover Buckland hospital, which opens in March, we should see a local emergency centre being used as an out-of-hours base for the doctors and CCG. It should be beefed up so that it has a much more emergency flavour to it, rather than a minor injuries one, so that more people use it, more people have trust and confidence in it and fewer people will inappropriately admit themselves to A and E down the road in Ashford. In that way, we will be able to get the right kind of cascading, the right level of treatment and the right places, given how our health system works. Such an approach would allow simpler stuff to be carried out more locally in our communities, whereas the more complicated accident and emergency problems would be dealt with in a more centralised A and E unit. That kind of modernisation in how we deal with out-of-hours care and A and E-type care is something I hope we will think about and see more of in future. I do not see this as a left/right issue, just as I do not see community hospitals, which I believe in, as a left/right issue. I see it as being about people who are concerned about localism, and the localisation of health care and bringing it closer to the patient and to the community. That is the way we should be building the future of our NHS. It is a great shame we have seen so much politicisation and weaponisation of this—

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

Order. I call Grahame M. Morris. You have five minutes.

[Grahame M. Morris (Easington) (Lab)]

I am pleased to follow the hon. Member for Dover (Charlie Elphicke). I wish to make it clear that I have chosen to be here in the Chamber today to participate in this important debate rather than attend the Health Committee, which is also considering important matters, because I feel that we need to set out our view of the direction of the health service.

I was very interested in some of the hon. Gentleman’s views about fair funding. Having experienced NHS funding under the Conservatives and Liberal Democrats, I must say that my view is rather different. After the general election in 2010, the funding for a brand-new hospital that would have served my constituency—it was to be funded not through the private finance initiative scheme but by NHS capital—was cancelled by the present Government. It is an absolute disgrace that we still do not have modern facilities to serve my constituents and those of neighbouring constituencies. It prompts us to ask whether fair funding or some kind of gerrymandering is being applied.

The hon. Gentleman was talking about opening urgent treatment centres. That is a revelation to me because the two centres that opened in my constituency under the previous Labour Government are now threatened with closure. We have neither a modern hospital nor modern facilities.

I am proud to say that, although I am not a doctor, I did work in the health service. Like my hon. Friend the Member for Heywood and Middleton (Liz McInnes), I worked in a pathology laboratory, doing some important diagnostic work. I am proud of the people who deliver that service; I think they deserve enormous credit.

The creation of the NHS is Labour’s proudest achievement. More than anything else—more than football or cricket—it is what binds us together as a nation. The principle of a free national health service, which is free at the point of use, has huge popular support among the general public.

When the Prime Minister said that his priorities could be summarised in three letters—NHS—we might have been forgiven for thinking that the Conservatives had been transformed and had come to cherish the NHS as much as the British people do. But, with fewer than 100 days to the general election, it is apparent that his words were nothing more than a smokescreen. It is clear that the Government knew that they could never go into a general election stating their true intentions. Now, we have been accused of weaponising the NHS.

[Charlie Elphicke]

Yes, you have.

[Grahame M. Morris]

I would rather weaponise it than privatise it, which is what I accuse the Government of doing. That would not have been possible without the active support of the Liberal Democrat party—talking of which, the hon. Member for Redcar (Ian Swales) has just taken his place in the Chamber. I feel bitter about what has happened. The hon. Gentleman and I both served on the Health and Social Care Bill, which has now been enacted. The lead advocates were the right hon. Members for Chelmsford (Mr Burns) and for Sutton and Cheam (Paul Burstow). That Act was a really dangerous move, because part 3 opened up our national health service to the full force of competition. Conservatives may say that the difference is only marginal, but the truth is that that Act allows hospital trusts to have up to 49% of their income come from private patients.

I know that we are desperately short of time, but I want to set out some political dividing lines. Labour and the Conservatives are making very different offerings for the NHS. Labour’s offering is that it will provide more nurses and GPs, and I think it will find favour. In the next general election—