West Balkans: Council of Europe

Caroline Nokes Excerpts

Wednesday 16th November 2022 Westminster Hall

[Tony Lloyd (Rochdale) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Ms Nokes. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Henley (John Howell) —I use that term advisedly—on opening the debate. His stewardship of the UK delegation to the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe is exemplary, and I join him in his endorsement of the roles of those who help us here in the UK Parliament.

If we look at the west Balkans as a region—the hon. Member for Henley is right to say that we need to take a strategic view of the whole region—some things are common. Not everywhere has all of these features, but nevertheless one of the depressing things is to travel anywhere in the western Balkans and talk to young people, most of whom will say that their ambition is to leave. They do not generally want to leave for the UK, by the way; they normally want to go to Germany. The fact that young people have no hope or faith in the future is such a mark of what is going wrong. There are those of us who heard that message not so long ago in Bosnia-Herzegovina, but it is a common view across the region. It matters to us as the UK in narrow, national terms, but it matters to us in any case if we hold the view that a well-ordered world is in the interests of the United Kingdom. There are issues such as combating corruption and ensuring that the rule of law is underpinned by judges who are free of the taint of corruption. Those things matter and it is in our interest to ensure that we are part of a process that brings them together.

In the relatively short time I have, let me make one central point. At the moment, a battle is taking place that can be defined in national terms, or by groupings of nations. That is whether the Council of Europe and the European Union pull together and challenge the baleful influence of Moscow and, to a lesser extent, the growing presence of China in the western Balkans. Certainly, the influence of Moscow is almost entirely that of disruptor, through their friends in Belgrade as well as directly.

That matters because a disrupted western Balkans can descend into the kind of events that we have seen in the past. It is very difficult. Nobody would have predicted the violence that took place in the Balkans in the past, not many years before the region was plunged into chaos. I do not want to be overly dramatic, but when Mr Dodik talks about independence or secession for Republika Srpska in Bosnia and Herzegovina we have the basis of a major challenge. An independent Republika Srpska’s armed force could lead to all manner of things, the like of which we should not contemplate. We have an interest, in any case, in the good governance of the region. That catastrophic view would not apply in most other countries of the region, I am glad to say, but we do have to challenge, both intellectually and practically, the role that Moscow and Belgrade seek to play in the region. That is one point I want to establish.

Many good things are taking place. Going back not that long ago, few people would have predicted that Albania would be a serious candidate for European Union membership, or North Macedonia, yet both those countries should be on a faster track into the European Union. It is always difficult, post Brexit, for UK politicians, even ones like me who were opposed to Brexit, to make the case for the European Union to take action. We need our friends in the EU to recognise that an EU that pretends to have the door open but in practice slams it pretty firmly shut is playing into the hands of the disruptors in the region, and those who already have the kind of despair I described among the younger generation and simply want to leave their countries.

There are some practical things we need to do. We need to work together, the Council of Europe with the European Union. That must underwrite everything that we do. There is no room for competition between the two bodies; we should be joined in everything that we do. That is fundamental, because it is about providing stability and the practical support that the hon. Member for Henley described. It is also about providing something else: the sense that there is a direction of travel that takes people to a better future.

In the end, the big prize is to say to the younger generation, which includes some very talented people, that their future is in their own countries in the region, to build that better west Balkans. If we can begin that process with sincerity and practicality, we can make a material difference. I know the region a little from over the years, but there are people in this room who know it a lot better than I do and I want to listen to what they have to say.

I will say this, though: the western Balkans matters to the United Kingdom. Perhaps it is not our principal area of activity at the moment, but one of the real tragedies of how we all operate is that today’s crisis is Ukraine, yesterday’s was Afghanistan and the day before it was wherever. The western Balkans was once that crisis that we thought was so important, and all our energies were directed there. As a Minister, I lived through the crisis in Kosovo, and we cannot go back to those days. The region is too important for us, so we have to make sure it is on all our agendas, not simply for today, but for the indefinite future. I thank the hon. Member for Henley once again for introducing the debate. It is an important debate that we need to remain fixed on.

[Caroline Nokes (in the Chair)]

We have 34 minutes and five Members wish to speak. May I encourage you to keep to a limit of about seven minutes, although it is not a formal limit?

--- Later in debate ---

[Bob Stewart]

I thank my good friend for allowing me to intervene on him. A good role for the Council of Europe that has not been mentioned is convening a conference to try to sort out a Dayton 2—a new approach to Bosnia. If the Council of Europe is so flipping powerful, it should actually convene this conference and get on with it. All these words and elections are meaningless if the country is broken because of its constitution, which is non-existent and frankly is a cockshy.

[Caroline Nokes (in the Chair)]

Mr Stewart, please can you think about the language you use in this Chamber?

[Bob Stewart]

Ms Nokes, I am so sorry.

--- Later in debate ---

[Daniel Kawczynski (Shrewsbury and Atcham) (Con)]

In the brief time that I have, I will focus my comments purely on our relations with Albania, a country that I visited earlier this year with my hon. Friend the Member for Cleethorpes (Martin Vickers), who is the chairman of the all-party parliamentary group on Albania. I pay tribute to him for his professionalism in conducting that trip and in managing the APPG.

There is no doubt that there is growing controversy over illegal crossings over the English channel, but how we treat the existing Albanian diaspora here in the United Kingdom is very important and a key indicator of how we develop our relations with Tirana.

I am the sole Conservative Member of Parliament who was born in eastern Europe—I was born in Poland—so our relations with central and eastern Europe, including the Balkans, are of particular interest to me. I remember coming to this country for the first time, escaping communism with my family in October 1978, as a six-year-old child. I remember the tremendous warmth, kindness and hospitality that we were shown when we came to this country for the first time. That is what characterises British people and this country. That is what we are known for around the world—the way in which we treat people of different faiths, religions, backgrounds and other characteristics.

When Poland joined the European Union in 2004, there was a huge movement of people from that country to the United Kingdom. I remember that at the time the BBC and others whipped up hysteria about the huge numbers of Poles coming to this country, so much so that as I went around the United Kingdom meeting members of the Polish diaspora, I saw and heard evidence of racist attacks, abuse and intimidation of those hard-working Poles who had come to this country to contribute. It was because of the narrative that had been created by the media, by the BBC and by the newspapers. I felt so passionately at that time that I went on “Newsnight” and on Radio 4, and I challenged the media about their conduct, asking why they were focusing so much on people from one specific nation.

Of course we want to control migration, of course we want to control our borders, and of course we want to ensure that migration works in the interests of the United Kingdom. But if history has taught us one thing, it is that focusing on one particular type of people, or on a particular nationality, is a very dangerous thing for any society. And to blame that one particular group of people for the ills and difficulties that the nation is going through is the thin end of the wedge, and something that history has taught us repeatedly is extremely problematic.

I believe that Albanians in the United Kingdom are facing the same pressure that the Poles went through in the early 2000s—actually, perhaps even more so. I have come across cases in my constituency of Shrewsbury of young children of Albanian origin being bullied at school and experiencing racist abuse. Last week, I met Albanian citizens on Westminster bridge who were peacefully demonstrating and holding up their Albanian flags and saying, “I’m a carpenter”, “I’m a nurse”, “I’m a doctor”, “I’m a schoolteacher”, and, “We’re here and we’re contributing to the United Kingdom. We love this country. And yet the media portrays us all as criminals and part of some nefarious type of nationality that is here purely to take advantage of the British and to be criminals.”

I was very moved and touched by what I heard on Westminster bridge from those hard-working people. The demonstration that I saw last week on Westminster bridge is very different from how the event was characterised in The Mail on Sunday, which tried to portray those demonstrators as a marauding mob, hell-bent on creating violence. That is not what I saw on Westminster bridge. People like Mr Farage, who try to whip up this sort of anti-Albanian hysteria through the pages of The Mail on Sunday, should be very careful about what they are doing.

I want to raise a radio interview that my right hon. Friend the Member for North Thanet (Sir Roger Gale) had with Jeremy Kyle. For me, Jeremy Kyle is the epitome—the personification—of that vilification and that “baying to the mob” mentality. He tries to create division and tension in order to sell his agenda and vilify this diaspora. I was proud of my right hon. Friend when he described Jeremy Kyle’s comments as “emotive, corrosive, offensive drivel”. I agree with him entirely. To characterise a whole nation in that way is wrong.

We all want to destroy the business model of criminal gangs, but we must not pick on the Albanians. I urge the Home Secretary to focus on the task ahead of her, and to be careful with the language that she uses. Certainly, some of the Albanian residents that I met on Westminster bridge expressed concern to me about the characterisation of them by certain politicians in this House. I recognise and celebrate the helpful contribution of Albanians.

Finally, my constituent, Arlinda Ballcaj, has joined Shrewsbury Conservatives; she does a tremendous amount of work to help me with my local party in Shrewsbury. She was the first citizen of Albanian origin to stand for Shrewsbury Conservatives as a council candidate. I am very proud of her. Unfortunately, she lost the seat. When I sat down with her, we both cried about the vilification that she came under, the racist abuse that she received and the conduct of some of the other candidates towards her. It was an emotional experience. I do not want any candidate to go through that sort of abuse. I very much hope that all of us in this House bear in mind my key message today: let us tackle the criminal gangs, but let us be very careful about how we treat the Albanian diaspora. They are here, and in the main they are hard-working, decent people who make a tremendous contribution to the United Kingdom.

[Caroline Nokes (in the Chair)]

May I ask that the final two speeches are kept to five minutes?

[Martin Vickers (Cleethorpes) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Ms Nokes. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Henley (John Howell) on securing this debate. It has been an extremely well-informed debate, and it appears that virtually everyone around the Chamber has been to the western Balkans over the course of the last few months.

I serve as the Prime Minister’s trade envoy to the western Balkans. I want to focus less on the political perspective and more on the main element of my brief, which is trade. It is a means not just of growing economies, but of ensuring peace and harmony within those sometimes troubled states. It is clear that we have both a strategic and a financial interest in being close partners with this part of the world. As the trade envoy, I am tasked with encouraging and supporting the growth of business links between the UK and the region. To do so, I work with a wide range of organisations in both the public and the private sector.

As a region with relatively young democracies and market economies, it is to some extent characterised by a legacy of nationalism, ethnic tensions, protectionism and territorial rivalries. Some businesses may consider the region full of significant business challenges, such as bureaucracy, corruption and political instability. However, each country in the region is committed to tackling those issues head on, and improving the business environment. Progress is varied from country to country, and there are setbacks. However, the general direction is positive and strides are being made with Governments across the region, and they ought to be congratulated for their efforts.

Of course, as states hopeful of EU membership, each Government in the region are astutely aware of the need to continue making the necessary reforms to eventually achieve that aim. There is much that the Council of Europe can do to step up its assistance to those nations in improving their application of the rule of law, tackling corruption, ensuring media freedom and putting reforms in place across the Executive, the legislature and the judiciary. That would also help them in joining other international organisations, including the Council of Europe.

As my hon. Friend the Member for Henley remarked, reconciliation is a key theme in the region and is essential to realising the goal of being admitted to the various international organisations. Numerous divisions exist both between and within states in the region; naturally, they are highly emotive and difficult to move on from. That is an area where the Council of Europe can play a significant role. Conflict resolution is difficult but essential. That means that those who have done wrong must be held accountable for crimes and prosecuted.

In some countries—Kosovo, in particular—the UK has not sufficiently focused on the trading relationship, instead preferring to support the country in state building and security issues. Other European countries, as well as the USA, have been quicker to capitalise on the opportunities. In other countries, such as Albania, our focus has dwelt on combatting organised crime. Given the direct impact that has on the UK, it is crucial that we address those matters and work together to resolve them. In doing so, we must remember that it is just one small aspect of what should be a wide-ranging and mutually beneficial relationship.

I want to address that particular issue in more depth. We will all be aware of the headlines in recent weeks. As my hon. Friend the Member for Shrewsbury and Atcham (Daniel Kawczynski) has highlighted, we have had protests in Parliament square relating to the channel boat crossings. I will say directly to the Albanian people, particularly those who live, work and contribute here, that the UK values their contribution. Most Albanians are here legally and contribute significantly to our society. The vast majority are law abiding and integrate well, maintaining strong relationships within their diaspora. Sadly, there are criminal gangs who exploit them; we are familiar with that. We enjoy a long history with Albania, and we ought to be able to overcome the present difficulties by working together to tackle the minority who are involved in drug trafficking and other crimes.

Those difficulties can be overcome through measures such as the mutual readmission agreement, which has already seen over 1,000 Albanian foreign national offenders returned. However, both of our countries need to do more. Fortunately, that is possible due to the strong and wide-ranging relationship we share with Albania as a close NATO ally, a partner in the UN and a vital partner in ensuring Europe’s collective security.

I suggest to the Minister that now would be a good time for her Department, in co-operation with the Department for International Trade, to launch a major initiative to encourage UK businesses to look more seriously at the opportunities that exist in Albania in particular, but also in the wider region. As has been said, those countries are losing their young people at an enormous rate. If we could do more to establish businesses there, the long-term effect would be to encourage those young people to stay in their home country. That would also, of course, be beneficial to our country as well.

I can see, Ms Nokes, that you are urging me to conclude. Yesterday, my hon. Friend the Member for Henley urged me to increase my contribution!

[Caroline Nokes (in the Chair)]

I would like to get Mrs Latham in, please.

[Martin Vickers]

I will wind up by saying that a great deal can be done to extend our trading relationship. I urge the Minister to work with her colleagues in other Departments to enhance our relationship, and as trade envoy I will certainly do my part to assist.

--- Later in debate ---

[Stephen Doughty (Cardiff South and Penarth) (Lab/Co-op)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairpersonship, Ms Nokes. I thank the hon. Member for Henley (John Howell) for securing this debate at a critical time for the entire western Balkans and for the Council of Europe’s engagement with it. I also extend my thanks to our permanent representative, our judges, the whole delegation to the Council—many of whom have spoken today—and our envoy in the region, Sir Stuart Peach, who is doing an excellent job.

We have heard some fantastic speeches today, which have drawn on the huge experience we have in the room. The hon. Member for Henley made a comprehensive speech, speaking of the long arm of attempted Russian influence and the range of challenges across the region and in multiple individual countries. I did not agree entirely with all his views on disenchantment with the EU across the region; I was there recently and, while it is clear that there is frustration with the process, I also saw a lot of enthusiasm for further integration into the European family on multiple levels.

I pay tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for Rochdale (Tony Lloyd) and his work in Kosovo. He spoke from his extensive experience. In particular, he spoke of the hope we need to offer younger generations across the region, and indeed in many troubled parts of the world, as being key to ensuring stability in the future. The right hon. Member for Beckenham (Bob Stewart) spoke from his own extensive experience in Bosnia. I pay tribute to him and particularly to the work done by him and his fallen comrades in the region in the past. He said the risks of a further descent into violence are very real, and we should all be aware of them. We heard many other excellent contributions. As always, the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) made important points on human rights and freedom of religion across the region.

The hon. Member for Shrewsbury and Atcham (Daniel Kawczynski) made some important points about not in any way demonising or targeting the diasporas of individual countries with our language and about the damage that that can do to communities playing a critical role in the UK. I very much agree with much of what he said about Albania. We have to be very careful; we need a pragmatic, official-led response to the challenges we see in the channel. The Home Affairs Committee has been very clear that what we are seeing is being facilitated by organised criminal gangs, which is why we have proposed a new National Crime Agency cell to tackle these groups upstream. We need to determine asylum claims swiftly so that those without claims can be returned, but that cannot descend into the language that we have seen from some parts of the media and, indeed, some senior politicians. It does huge damage to our good relations with Albania, which is one of our NATO allies. I sat in NATO headquarters just last week and saw the Albanian flag fluttering in the breeze alongside our own—we need to remember that Albania is our ally at a critical time. Indeed, many Albanians play a crucial role in this country.

The hon. Member for Cleethorpes (Martin Vickers) was with me on a trip to Kosovo earlier this year. He made some critical points about trade and commercial links. I saw that myself with him in Kosovo; we need to expand those. The hon. Members for Mid Derbyshire (Mrs Latham) and for Stirling (Alyn Smith) also made some critical points about why the region is so crucial and why the UK has a key role to play. It is right that much of our focus as parliamentarians in recent months has been on Putin’s heinous war of aggression against the people of Ukraine, but the western Balkans is just as critical because of the potential for future instability and the UK’s unique historical role there, as we discussed in the debate in June. Like all present, I maintain that the work of the Council of Europe has never been more significant in ensuring peace, security and democracy for the people of our continent.

I visited Pristina and Skopje earlier this year and have previously travelled in Bosnia and elsewhere across the region, so I am familiar with the challenges, but there are many grounds for hope as well. I saw dynamic young populations keen to expand their links with the rest of Europe, including the UK. In Kosovo, in particular, I saw a young and vibrant population with a strong desire to join the Council of Europe. I join the calls, led by the hon. Member for Henley and supported by the Government, for Kosovo to be a full member of the Council of Europe.

However, we clearly see significant tensions, often fomented and aggravated by internal and external forces, and those tensions have the capacity to unravel into violence. We must be under no illusions about the seriousness of what we see in the western Balkans at the moment. There is real potential to undermine and unravel the immense progress made since the 1990s. Tensions between Serbia and Kosovo are high, following recent disputes over the licence plate issue, and the resignation of Kosovan Serbs from the country’s institutions, despite Prime Minister Kurti’s calls for co-operation. Discussions have been going on; we met Prime Minister Kurti when he was here a couple of weeks ago.

Any further escalation of that situation could put the work done by the Belgrade-Pristina dialogue at risk. I am afraid we have seen some very unhelpful rhetoric from President Vučić in Serbia. We have also seen a range of measures in Serbia that undermine human rights and freedom of expression, including the backlash against EuroPride in August. Serbia has been reclassified as partly free, rather than free, by Freedom House.

We have seen President Vučić becoming increasingly close to Russia in explicit ways, declaring his intention to maintain friendly relations, signing a three-year agreement on gas supplies, and signing other diplomatic co-operation agreements at the UN, during the United Nations General Assembly, though we are not sure what is in those. Serbia has to make a fundamental choice; does it have a European future with progress, the rule of law and democracy, or is it to be a proxy for Putin and his regressive agenda, which we see acted out so violently in other parts of Europe at the moment?

Much of today’s debate was rightly about the situation in Bosnia. The recent election unfortunately confirmed that ethno-nationalism continues to typify political life in the country. Milorad Dodik and Republika Srpska remain intransigent when it comes to healing divisions and keeping the Dayton process alive. In October he pledged to 30,000 people at a rally that secession will become a reality for the Bosnian Serb entity, and he won re-election on that basis. He has also voiced support for Russia and China, and he went as far as to say that, if NATO intervened in Bosnia,

“We will ask our friends to help us.”

Dodik also supported the illegal and bogus annexation referendums staged by Putin in Ukraine in September, and he has taken a sledgehammer to the delicate balance of power in Bosnia. The implications of that could manifest themselves dangerously for the region and across the continent. We must be fully aware of that. It is only right that we have issued sanctions against a number of the individuals involved in undermining the Dayton agreement.

I have specific questions for the Minister, whom I welcome to her place and her new role. What conversations have the Government had with the secretary-general of the Council of Europe regarding targeted initiatives to protect democratic institutions across the western Balkans? She will have seen the resolution at the PACE assembly on 12 October that, since the Thessaloniki summit, political and public enthusiasm for further integration with Europe has been sapped, due to a slowing and stagnation of the processes. What comments does she have on that? I know we are outside the EU, but what does she believe we can do at this critical time, when others seek to undermine us, to stop that sapping of enthusiasm for integration in terms of accession processes with the EU and the role of the new European political community, which we are part of?

The EU-Western Balkans summit takes place in Tirana on 6 December. I understand that the UK will not be present formally, because we are not in the EU, but the UK has a critical role in many of these locations. I am disappointed that we will not be there in an associate fashion or taking part in discussions. Will the Minister tell us what discussions she has had with friends and allies in the EU and what contact there has been between our special envoy and the EU special envoy in the region ahead of that summit?

We have heard today about Russia’s efforts to spread disinformation and undermine democracies across the region. I was concerned to hear of the locations in Serbia that Russia is using to spread disinformation across the region in relation to not only Kosovo but Montenegro, Albania, North Macedonia and elsewhere. Will the Minister say a little about what we are doing to share our expertise in counter-disinformation and cyber-security across the region to assist countries to have the strongest possible resilience against those Russian efforts?

[Caroline Nokes (in the Chair)]

Perhaps you could think about drawing to a conclusion.

[Stephen Doughty]

I am coming to my conclusion. I am on the final page.

[Caroline Nokes (in the Chair)]

Leave time for the Minister.

[Stephen Doughty]

I will leave time for the Minister, Ms Nokes.

I hope that the Minister can assure us that the Government see the Council as a crucial part of promoting democracy across our continent, fundamentally reinforcing the values that we all share, and that they will continue to support our delegation and its work in the months and years to come.