Taxis and Private Hire Vehicles (Safeguarding and Road Safety) Bill (First sitting)

Caroline Johnson Excerpts

Wednesday 3rd November 2021 Public Bill Committees

[Sir John Hayes]

Those issues were looked at in some detail, as the hon. Lady will know, by Professor Abdel-Haq in the report that I commissioned. I am grateful for her kind words, by the way. Cross-border travel is a thorny issue, but Professor Abdel-Haq’s recommendation 11 states:

“Government should legislate that all taxi and PHV—

private hire vehicles—

“journeys should start and/or end within the area for which the driver, vehicle and operator (PHV and taxi…are licensed.”

He goes on to say that appropriate measures need to be put in place to exempt specialist services, such as chauffeurs, disability transport services and others. However, the huge issue of cross-border journeys was looked at in some detail by that committee. Professor Abdel-Haq also looked at her second recommendation. I take the view of the hon. Member for Cambridge about local particularities, but I would go so far as to say that we cannot be too rigorous. There has to be a thorough and rigorous process that gives people the assurance that, wherever they get a taxi, those standards and checks will be in place. I strongly endorse the hon. Lady’s recommendations. This is precisely the kind of additional work that I recommended in my earlier intervention, and which I know the Minister will want to take forward.

[Dr Caroline Johnson (Sleaford and North Hykeham) (Con)]

Will the hon. Lady give way?

[The Chair]

Perhaps the hon. Member for Rotherham might like to respond to the previous intervention before she takes a further intervention.

--- Later in debate ---

[Sarah Champion]

I would be delighted to. I can only thank my right hon. Friend the Member for South Holland and The Deepings for the work he has done in the past, and for the emphasis he puts on the cross-border issue now. He knows only too well the risk, but also the potentially quite simple solutions that we could put in place to give every passenger that certainty. I thank him again for raising that.

[Dr Johnson]

I listened carefully to the hon. Lady, and if I heard her correctly, she suggests that someone could evade DBS checks by changing their name by deed poll. If so, that has much wider application than taxi drivers; it would also apply to those working in healthcare professions and with children in schools. I would press the Minister to look at that urgently.

[Sarah Champion]

I can only say that I share the hon. Member’s concerns. It is something that keeps me awake at night, I must say. In the case of the survivor who I am speaking about, Bella, the perpetrator changed his name while in jail. It is a very simple process that can be done through an online form or on paper. The checks are so slight that they are incredibly easy to evade.

I am deeply grateful for all the work done by hon. Members in the room on the topic. I urge the Minister to refer to the points we have raised, particularly around the cross-border matter and the change of name. This is not a political issue; it is a safeguarding issue, and I hope the Minister takes what we say in that spirit.

[Trudy Harrison]

First, I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Darlington for the sheer amount of work and dedication he has invested in bringing this private Member’s Bill forward. I also thank right hon. and hon. Members from across the House who have expertise in this legislation and in transport going back many years. I should mention the work done by the hon. Member for Cambridge on this important passenger safety issue.

Passenger safety in taxis and private hire vehicles is a priority for this Government, which is why we are keen to support the legislation. I reiterate that the vast majority of licensed taxi and private hire vehicle drivers are fit and proper persons, who are a credit to the sector and their communities. However, we must ensure that those who are not fit and proper people to hold a licence are not able to do so. It has been set out this morning why that is so important, and the implications of getting it wrong.

Last year, the Government issued the statutory taxi and private hire vehicle standards, which outlined how licensing authorities can best safeguard many of the vulnerable citizens who use those services. One of the recommendations in those standards is the use of the national register of refusals and revocations, which is hosted by the National Anti Fraud Network. Some licensing authorities are using NR3, but not all. Clauses 2, 3 and 4 of the Bill would rectify that by mandating the use of a database that records not only refusals and revocations, but suspensions.

There has been reference to the cost of that database. We would hope that it could be in house; it should certainly be not for profit, and would be done at the minimum possible cost. It would give licensing authorities more information with which to make informed decisions on who we entrust with the responsibility of being a taxi or private hire vehicle driver. That can only be a good thing. The more information available to licensing authorities, the better their decision making will be.

The Bill rightly focuses on safeguarding and road safety issues. Refusals, revocations or suspensions relating at least partly to the safeguarding and safety criteria set out in clause 1 must be recorded on the database. The criteria are sufficiently broad to ensure that all manner of safeguarding, road safety and discrimination concerns can be highlighted to a licensing authority making its decision.

Clauses 5 and 6 also introduce duties on licensing authorities in England to report concerns about drivers licensed in other areas and to act on any concerns reported to them. The Government wholeheartedly support these provisions, which would ensure that, where authorities have concerns about a licensed driver relating to the criteria set out in the first clause, they can do something about it. As many on the Committee will no doubt know, a licensing authority can only revoke or suspend a taxi and private hire vehicle driver’s licence if it issued it. Under this duty, if a driver licensed in another area is behaving in an unsafe manner, or other concerns are raised, the authority responsible for issuing the licence must consider their suitability again.

The clauses would greatly improve not only the collaboration between our licensing authorities, but the effectiveness of their collaboration with other agencies such as the police, who may report a concern to the local licensing authority, which may then be under a duty to pass it on to the relevant licensing authority.

[Dr Johnson]

I am grateful to the Government for supporting the fantastic Bill proposed by my hon. Friend the Member for Darlington. Women and girls in particular use taxis of an evening to get them home safely. They are used as a safety measure, so the work that my hon. Friend and the Minister are doing is extremely important. The Minister has talked about collaboration between different parts of England. This Bill applies only to England, because this is a devolved matter. Will she elaborate on what she is doing to ensure good collaboration between all four parts of the United Kingdom?