Rough Sleeping

Debate between Carla Lockhart and Jim Shannon

Wednesday 23rd October 2024 Westminster Hall

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairship, Sir Christopher. Well done to the hon. Member for Ealing Southall (Deirdre Costigan); homelessness has been one of the key issues that she has raised since arriving in this place. It is a pleasure to be here, as I said I would be—others are here for the same purpose—to support her quest for betterment for those who are homeless. I also welcome the Minister to her place. It is a pleasure to see her, and we look forward to her contribution. I also welcome the shadow Minister, who is a well-seasoned campaigner and will be able to pick over the issues as well as all of us.

The hon. Member for Ealing Southall set the scene well. It is always with great sadness that I hear the comments of hon. Members regarding rough sleeping across the UK. The hon. Lady set out—I am trying to pick the right words—the desperate scene for people who are homeless and explained what they go through. This is a UK-wide issue, facing all constituencies. I always like to give a Northern Ireland perspective. Rough sleeping may not be as massive an issue in Northern Ireland as it is in other parts of the United Kingdom, including the hon. Lady’s constituency, but it is something we have to raise awareness of, and this debate gives us that opportunity.

I will give some examples of the issue in my constituency, and talk about those who respond. There is a collective responsibility on us all, including Government bodies and all the people who look after individuals who are homeless and rough sleeping to be better prepared to help and support them.

There is almost a stigma around rough sleeping—the idea that those who have no other choice in life have made incorrect decisions to find themselves in those circumstances. I say that respectfully. In some cases, those people might look for solace in things that do not provide it but give them more heartache and pain. I think of substance abuse, which makes it difficult for people to get their lives back on track; the whole thing is a real journey, like being on a train and not being able to get off. That is the reality for some people who rough sleep, although it is certainly not the case for all. Rough sleeping could be due to relationship breakdown, financial circumstances, the availability of housing and so on.

In 2023, the Northern Ireland Housing Executive released figures on rough sleeping. By their nature, these figures are not astronomical from a mathematical point of view, but they tell a story of 45 people who were rough sleeping—a 36.4% increase on 2022, when the number was 33. Although that might not seem like many, that is 45 people who are homeless—rough sleeping—and have nowhere to go, and in many cases, they have no hope.

I want to respond in a small but, I hope, effective way by speaking of those who step up. Of those 45 individuals who required support and asked us to do better, 32 were in Belfast, which is about 15 to 20 miles from my constituency, and a further seven were in Newry. Sometimes the figures might not reflect what is really happening. Why? Well, I mentioned church groups to the hon. Lady before the debate; church groups, individuals and volunteers, including the street pastors in towns in my constituency, are all well aware of what is going on. I thank them for what they do, as they respond directly by meeting and having direct contact with people. They play an important role, which the Minister might mention when she sums up.

We cannot do it all ourselves, but we can do it with others. That is the point I want to make. I ask the Minister how we can work better with street pastors and church groups. By coming through the street pastors, church groups respond to those people who are homeless and rough sleeping. Those people are looked after by the churches directly. They find them accommodation and somewhere to sleep overnight. They give them a meal. They try to get them back into the benefits system where they need to be, because they may even have gone completely off the radar.

The next group that I want to refer to is veterans. One veteran in my town of Newtownards did an overnight sleep-out. He wanted to highlight the issue. I was glad that I was not sleeping out overnight as well, because I think if I got down into that wee tent, I could probably only with difficulty get back out again, but he did it overnight. What was he doing? He was highlighting the issue for veterans. There are so many veterans who are under the radar and perhaps not able to get the help that they need, so this veteran highlighted that.

I say to the Minister that when it comes to veterans as people who sleep rough, we need to remember the horrors of what they experienced in uniform, whether that was in Iraq or in Northern Ireland—it would be in our case, but there are other parts of the world where they fought in uniform, and nightmares of what they went through have affected them. This veteran slept out overnight. I stayed along with him for the photograph and to speak to him and to tell the press what the object of the exercise was—so what are we doing for veterans, Minister? Again, it is a very specific question.

I acknowledge that, compared with other constituencies, we are fortunate that rough sleeping does not seem to have as great an impact, but it is still there. Northern Ireland does have a clear issue with homelessness, though. I have lost count of the people and families who have come to my office looking for help because, for many reasons, they have no home. This information is backed up by Simon Community. I just want to take us from the issue of rough sleeping to the next stage of where we are.

[Carla Lockhart (Upper Bann) (DUP)]

My hon. Friend is making a very eloquent speech on this matter regarding the importance of churches and street pastors and of veterans. Does he agree with me that many are sleeping rough as a result of mental ill health, and that it is important that we get to the crux of that problem in Northern Ireland and right across this United Kingdom, and ensure that our health service is providing the mental health services required, so that people feel that there are other options?

[Jim Shannon]

I thank my hon. Friend for that point, which is absolutely critical. The hon. Member for Ealing Southall referred to it in her contribution at the beginning; although this Minister is not directly responsible for the issue of mental health, there is a need for Departments to work better together, so perhaps in her reply the Minister can give us some information about that.

Simon Community has revealed that, in Northern Ireland, 25,000 people are experiencing—to quote its word—“hidden” homelessness. To give an example, there was a young man in my office just a few months back. He had recently broken up with his wife and was asked to leave the family home. Relationships do break up. It is always sad when they do, but that is a reality of life. This young man continued to pay part of the mortgage, as his two children were living at the home. He could not afford a private rental and was severely struggling to get rehomed on the Northern Ireland Housing Executive list, quite simply because he was single and fit and healthy. Therefore, the points system did not enable him to qualify for homelessness points or the points needed to get a property. What did he have to do? He had no choice but to sleep in the back of his work van, and that is what he did up until a few months later, when eventually it was sorted. There are so many single men and women out there who are likely to be on the waiting list for years before they get an opportunity to be rehomed.

The official homelessness statistic for Northern Ireland currently stands at 55,500 people, including 4,500 children. There are so many reasons, but one prevalent issue is that the cost of private rentals is astronomical. People are being asked to pay some £700 or £800 a month, which is just not affordable with the wage bracket and median wage that they have in Northern Ireland. If we do not do more to tackle the homelessness crisis, including the rough sleeping crisis, we will ultimately have more people who have no choice but to sleep rough—that is where they are going. The mental health issues, the issues for veterans, including post-traumatic stress disorder, and the breakdown of family relationships have a direct and collective impact.

This will be my last comment. I still recall times when I was walking through the centre of Belfast and seeing the sleeping bags alongside St Anne’s cathedral. It was always very poignant for me to see that, because here we were in a town that was bustling and busy because of its nightlife, and there were people on the footpath who had nothing. There is more we must do to support people, and that must start by addressing the housing crisis in the United Kingdom and improving the availability and affordability of homes. We must put more emphasis on building sustainable homes and apartments for those who are struggling. We are grateful to all those charities that do so much without ever asking for anything back.

Winter Fuel Payment

Debate between Carla Lockhart and Jim Shannon

Tuesday 10th September 2024 Commons Chamber

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I rise to publicly oppose this proposed change. I understand the need to balance the books—we all do, and we know how it works—but to be perfectly frank, and it gives me no joy to say this, I never imagined ever in my life that a Labour Government would seek to balance the books on the backs of pensioners throughout the United Kingdom. I put that on record at the beginning. I say it respectfully, but with great grief.

I fully comprehend that the system could do with an upgrade. Perhaps we should look at a household cap, as we have with the child benefit payment. Perhaps we could look at allocating per household, rather than per person. Perhaps we could look at ensuring that everyone who is still earning more than their pension through employment can have deferred payments until full retirement. Perhaps we could look at an opt-out scheme for pensioners such as me. I do not need the money; I asked not to take the money. I give the money to charity. I am not better than anybody else—never am I better than anybody else—but I realised that I did not need that money, so I gave it away. Others might want to do the same thing.

It should be direct face-to-face applications for pension credit. There should not be a nine-week wait for the application to be processed. My goodness, people need the money now. The threshold should be raised. The Government and the Minister have said about the £440 that is coming next spring, but pensioners need the money this winter and as soon as possible.

In Northern Ireland, 68% of homes rely on oil-fired boilers for heating. There are high levels of fuel poverty, with 22% of the population currently spending more than 10% of their household income on heating their homes. I think about the women who have a tiny workplace pension from the hours they worked while their children were in school. The women of the Women Against State Pension Inequality Campaign have already been disadvantaged and will pay a further price for not being allowed to save for their needs. I am begging this Government on behalf of my constituents in Strangford not to remove the benefit from everyone in one fell swoop.

[Carla Lockhart (Upper Bann) (DUP)]

National Energy Action estimates that close to 45 people die every winter’s day in the UK due to cold homes. This Government, in their wisdom and through this decision, have decided to imperil many more. Does my hon. Friend agree that it is wrong, it will have an impact and it will cause deaths right across the United Kingdom?

[Jim Shannon]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. We all recognise that this winter will be one where pensioners will feel the gravity of this and the pain of the cold. I stand for all those who are making do with less than £1,000 a month and those pensioners who will be impacted by the winter fuel allowance being taken away from them. For them, this is a lot of money. It is the difference between being warm this winter or simply surviving. It is not an exaggeration; it is life for my constituents and, respectfully, for the constituents of those on the Government Benches.

I will conclude. The clock for speeches has stopped. I will be respectful of the time, as you would expect, Madam Deputy Speaker.

Those who have worked all their lives deserve to be paid for what they paid in. There is a basic standard, along with women and children go first in the lifeboat: protect those who cannot survive the icy cold. So let us slow down the ship—I look to Labour to make that happen—and veer away from the iceberg, which some Members only see the tip of at the moment, which could be the destruction of the Government before their first journey even begins. Let us correct course and get this right. Let us support the Opposition motion, which reflects the mood and opinion on the Opposition Benches. I hope that the Labour party will realise that it is going the wrong way. We are trying to direct them the right way.

Preventable Baby Loss

Debate between Carla Lockhart and Jim Shannon

Wednesday 4th September 2024 Westminster Hall

[Jim Shannon]

I am sorry for being emotional. I know that I should not be. I thank the hon. Gentleman for giving me a chance to recover some of my composure.

Agnes came in tears to ask where the Royal Victoria hospital had buried her son. It meant something to her, even though it was 50 years later—that wee small lady, standing in my office telling me her story, which was breaking her heart 50 years later.

The loss of a baby is life-changing, and my thoughts are with those families who have been mentioned in this debate. There will be others. Other hon. Members will speak, and they will tell the same story with the very same emotion, compassion, understanding and that realness that the hon. Member for Ashfield compounded in such a fantastic way in his introduction.

The fact that baby loss can be preventable makes the outcome that bit more difficult to accept. Sands is a phenomenal charity, and it has given the following statistics. I always give a Northern Ireland perspective simply because I feel it adds to the debate, but it also tells us that the things happening here are no different for us back home. The stillbirth rate declined 17.7% in Northern Ireland between 2010 and 2022. However, comparing the rate over a three-year average shows a smaller reduction of 10.1%. My goodness! Though it is decreasing, it is still there with a vengeance. The neonatal mortality rate has been higher in Northern Ireland than in any other UK nation since 2013. It is equally bad wherever it is, but I am just making the point that Northern Ireland has examples of it that are above the rate anywhere else.

[Carla Lockhart (Upper Bann) (DUP)]

I thank my hon. Friend for his powerful speech. This is certainly a debate that resonates with me on a very personal level, but I want to make mention of a little boy called Teddy from my constituency of Upper Bann, who died from sudden infant death syndrome. He will be forever seven weeks old. Does my hon. Friend agree that we need better wraparound services, particularly in our hospitals, with rooms made available for families who find themselves in these most tragic circumstances? There should be support, counselling and help right through their grief journey.

[Jim Shannon]

I thank my hon. Friend and colleague for that intervention. What she says is absolutely true.

I tend to be emotional at the best of times, but whenever someone loses someone, particularly at that time, it resonates with everyone. It is a time when people want to wrap their arms around them, because it is the right thing to do. At the same time, there has to be someone outside. The hon. Member for Ashfield gave some examples where—with respect—people were just sent home when they needed someone. That is so sad. I feel that there should be a greater role for churches and ministers to help and, as best they can, to give succour and support physically, emotionally and mentally. Those are things that we have probably all tried to do.

Unlike stillbirths and neonatal deaths, the total number of miscarriages and miscarriage rates are not reported in Northern Ireland. That needs to change. It is a matter for us back home and not the Minister’s responsibility, because health is devolved, but I do feel that we need to do better. I still feel that the aims in the mainland should be replicated. I know that the Minister is sitting in for another Minister who cannot be here, but maybe it could be conveyed to the responsible Minister that we should look at an overall strategy for the whole United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

Although there is an ambition in England to halve the 2010 rates of stillbirth, neonatal death, pre-term birth, maternal death and brain injury by 2025, there is no equivalent ambition in Northern Ireland. There really needs to be one; that is one thing that I would love to see. Sands states:

“The Northern Ireland Executive must commit to reducing pregnancy loss and baby deaths and eliminating inequalities. Any future targets must have a clear and agreed baseline to measure progress against.”

It is not just about having a goal; it is about having a goal that means something. With respect, we can have words until the cows come home, but they mean nothing unless they turn into action. Sands further states:

“These targets should be the driving force behind a programme of policy activity, with funding and resources to meet them.”

I agree. The ambition of this debate is to highlight the need for funding and resources, highlight the issue, make people aware and give an outlet to those who have suffered so painfully and who will carry that burden with them all their life. That is what I too am advocating, not simply for England but throughout the whole United Kingdom.

We have midwives who regularly find themselves staying after handover, as they are understaffed. We find exhausted junior doctors being left with full maternity wards while their SOs catch up on the never-ending paperwork. We have cleaning staff telling us that they do not have time to do all they need to clear rooms of infections. All those things are a matter of funding, and they are all UK-wide.

In all parts of this great nation, these are matters of life and death. The death of just one little baby that did not need to happen—we all have examples in mind today—is a tragedy. The number of babies who have died needlessly is not just a tragedy, but a catastrophe. We need to change it. With that in mind, I congratulate the hon. Member for Ashfield on giving us all an opportunity to participate in this debate in a small way, but with united force. Politics aside, we are here as MPs on behalf of our constituents, and we will all say the same thing: the loss of a baby is devastating to a family. If we can do something, we must. Let us support staff and, by doing so, support the health of our mothers and their children.