Trade Diversion and Windsor Framework

Debate between Carla Lockhart and Hilary Benn

Tuesday 4th March 2025 Commons Chamber

[Hilary Benn]

The hon. and learned Gentleman has had quite a lot to say and I have given way to him three times, so I hope he will bear with me while I continue my remarks.

In the past, the idea that the UK would be a country that signed an international agreement and then reneged upon it would have been extraordinary to us all in this House, but that is what happened in very recent living memory, and it is why I put this point to the hon. and learned Gentleman.

The last Government negotiated the Windsor framework. I stood up in the House and supported it. The Opposition supported it at that time, and I voted for it because I genuinely believed that it represented a significant step forward. But if we do not honour the most recent agreement that we have signed with the European Union, why would it wish to reach agreement on what this Government are currently seeking, in particular on an SPS veterinary and agrifood agreement? This Government have come in saying that we want to do that, while the last Government appeared to say, “Well, the trade and co-operation agreement is all we want—we don’t want anything else.” This Government have a very different view: we want to negotiate an SPS veterinary and agrifood agreement, and that would help considerably with some of the issues that have been raised during the debate. The Government will continue to listen to the concerns of businesses and respond pragmatically.

[Carla Lockhart (Upper Bann) (DUP)]

I have listened intently to the Secretary of State’s contribution and I am somewhat bemused by some of what he said. He speaks of businesses in his constituency that are jealous of what Northern Ireland businesses have. What we have in Northern Ireland is increased costs, increased paperwork and impediments to trade. It is increasingly difficult for engineering, agrifood and horticultural businesses in my constituency. I have invited the Secretary of State to visit those businesses, but I am still waiting. I encourage him to come to Northern Ireland and listen to the businesses that are impacted by the protocol and the Windsor framework on a daily basis. I also heard today about two plants that have been added to the ever-lengthening list of plants that are not available to Northern Ireland, well whoop-de-do-da-day—how brilliant and great for Northern Ireland. When are we going to get real and address the real problems that exist with the protocol and the Windsor framework?

[Hilary Benn]

Kind though it is of the hon. Member to encourage me to come to Northern Ireland, as she knows I am in Northern Ireland on a very regular basis and a little while ago I had a meeting with her and two organisations, at her request. I meet businesses on a very regular basis. I met the Northern Ireland Chamber of Commerce and Industry Brexit working group and I always do my level best to respond to requests for visits from colleagues in the House of Commons, including the hon. Lady, but there are only so many hours in the day.

I wanted to point out that the independent monitoring panel, which I met for the first time yesterday, has started its work. Establishing the panel was a commitment made in the safeguarding the Union Command Paper. Its job will be on the basis of the evidence and it will be provided with data on the flow of goods between Great Britain and Northern Ireland to say whether the UK internal market guarantee is being met. The first six-month reporting period commenced on 1 January and will conclude on 30 June 2025, following which the IMP will publish its assessment and any recommendations. I commit to the hon. and learned Member for North Antrim, and all those who contributed to the debate, that I shall consider the report with the same attention to detail that he has shown in forwarding his argument today.

To conclude, this Government are committed to Northern Ireland. They are committed to the United Kingdom and to implementing the Windsor framework in a manner that is consistent with protecting Northern Ireland’s place within our internal market.

Question put and agreed to.

Clonoe Inquest

Debate between Carla Lockhart and Hilary Benn

Tuesday 11th February 2025 Commons Chamber

[Hilary Benn]

As I made clear at Northern Ireland questions recently, the Supreme Court issued a judgment on the interim custody orders relating to internment in 2020. The previous Government knew there was a problem and, for quite a long period of time, was unable to find a solution. In the end, the solution—sections 46 and 47 of the legacy Act—has been found to be unlawful, but I have given an undertaking from the Dispatch Box that we are looking at all lawful means to prevent compensation from being paid in those circumstances. I believe that we are taking the right approach to the legacy Act.

On coroners, I say for, I think, the third time that if we have an inquest system that we support and that applies right across the piece, it is not possible to write legislation that says, “We will have the verdicts, judgments and findings that we like, but we will not have the findings that we do not like.” That is a decision—[Interruption.] Independent coroners make those decisions in respect of individual cases. I feel the anger of many Members of the House—[Interruption.] Will the hon. and learned Gentleman let me finish answering the question that he put? I feel the anger that is being expressed in the House, but we have an independent legal system in this country, which is one of the foundations of our freedom.

[Carla Lockhart (Upper Bann) (DUP)]

The IRA itself claimed the terrorists shot by the security forces at Clonoe, describing their actions that night as being “active service”. They had just launched a cowardly attack on Coalisland RUC station, no doubt with murderous intent, but they met real soldiers and they lost. No doubt many innocent lives were saved by the security forces as a result of that evening: these were not innocent people, but hardened terrorists. Does the Secretary of State agree that this was a justified and necessary operation, within the guidelines of military interception, and will he condemn judicial rulings that seek to rewrite history, undermine our security forces and embolden bloodthirsty terrorists who wage war against innocent people?

[Hilary Benn]

I accept the characterisation that the hon. Member has ascribed to the individuals. Clearly, in firing 60 rounds at the police station, we know what their intent was. That was what the Provisional IRA and terrorists on the loyalist side did during the course of the troubles, and we have to speak of that as well. The coroner’s findings are there on the record. Members and public society are perfectly entitled to express a view, and I acknowledge the concerns that Members have raised today. It is a very serious issue, and that is why it falls to the Ministry of Defence to consider the findings and what may follow.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Carla Lockhart and Hilary Benn

Wednesday 27th November 2024 Commons Chamber

[Hilary Benn]

I do agree with that. As my hon. Friend and the House will know, the longest waiting lists in the health service in the United Kingdom are to be found in Northern Ireland. That is not acceptable, above all for those people who are waiting far too long. There is a plan for reform, which I welcome, but the people of Northern Ireland want to see progress happening.

[Carla Lockhart (Upper Bann) (DUP)]

Just last week, I attended and spoke at a rally hosted by the Ulster Farmers’ Union in response to the change to agricultural property relief. It was attended by 6,000 farmers, with every political party in Northern Ireland standing together in opposition to the change. When will the Government acknowledge that their figures are not reflective of the average farm, and that this death tax will result in the break-up of family farms as we know them, the selling of land to pay the tax, and the purchasing of devalued land by big businesses that are not interested in using it to feed our nation? Will the Secretary of State outline whether he has shared the concerns of Northern Ireland farmers with the Chancellor?

[Hilary Benn]

I have spoken to the Secretary of State for the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs and a Treasury Minister about this. I understand that the changes are unwelcome and difficult, but given the fiscal position, the Government are having to take difficult decisions. There is, however, a difference of view about how many farms will be affected, and the Treasury estimate is about 500 claims a year. We cannot infer from land values an inheritance tax liability, because it depends on the ownership structure of the farm.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Carla Lockhart and Hilary Benn

Wednesday 23rd October 2024 Commons Chamber

[Hilary Benn]

I do. Indeed, raising £113 million was part of the deal that the last Government put in place as part of the £3.3 billion package that led to the restoration—well, that followed the restoration of the Executive. That includes delivering a balanced budget in the current year, and I am very encouraged by the statements of the Northern Ireland Finance Minister in that regard.

[Carla Lockhart (Upper Bann) (DUP)]

The budget sustainability plan is commendable, but does the Secretary of State agree that our public services are in crisis? Our roads are crumbling, we have the longest health waiting lists in the whole of the UK, and our schools need investment. Northern Ireland needs to be in receipt of a fair long-term funding allocation, based on Treasury needs. Will he confirm to the House that he is making the case for that to the Treasury for the people of Northern Ireland?

Northern Ireland City Deals

Debate between Carla Lockhart and Hilary Benn

Wednesday 9th October 2024 Commons Chamber

[Hilary Benn]

There is quite a lot of information already available about the two schemes that are going ahead, what they have achieved and what the plans are. I think that is readily available, if the right hon. Gentleman needs it, and I will bear in mind the point he makes about information on the other schemes. He and the House have already heard me say a number of times that clarity as soon as possible would be in the interests of everybody.

[Carla Lockhart (Upper Bann) (DUP)]

The Secretary of State has kindly agreed to meet the council leads in the Mid South West deal area, for which I am a Member of Parliament. Upper Bann, Fermanagh and South Tyrone, and Mid Ulster are all included, but he will note that the other MPs for those areas are absent from this place.

The Secretary of State speaks of partnerships, synergy and the great things that can be achieved. Sadly, in the Mid South West deal area, we are not going to be able to achieve them because the main partner has pulled the plug and paused the deal, which is impacting on infrastructure, tourism and regeneration. Will the Secretary of State assure the House today that he will make the case for the Mid South West area, which is home to over half a million people and a vital economic driver in Northern Ireland within this United Kingdom?

[Hilary Benn]

I have already indicated to the House that I of course give that assurance. As I said in answer to the previous question, all those who have an interest in these schemes progressing and who are concerned about the impact of the pause—the plug has not been pulled, and you cannot pause a plug, but I think the hon. Member will understand the point—should be making the case, too.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Carla Lockhart and Hilary Benn

Wednesday 24th July 2024 Commons Chamber

[Hilary Benn]

I pay tribute to the work that veterans and members of the police and the security services did over many years during the troubles in trying to keep people safe from terrorism. I undertake, as part of the consultation that I have already set out to the House, to consult veterans’ organisations.

[Carla Lockhart (Upper Bann) (DUP)]

I welcome the Secretary of State to his position. Will he further outline what discussions he is having with groups and organisations who represent innocent victims? Will he assure the House that in repealing this legislation, there will be no pandering to those who were the victim makers? What meaningful engagement is he having with the Irish Government, who oppose the Act but have disgracefully refused to deal with the many allegations of state collusion with the Provisional IRA? I am thinking specifically about the long-awaited public inquiry into the Omagh bombing.

Northern Ireland Protocol Bill

Debate between Carla Lockhart and Hilary Benn

Committee stage
Wednesday 13th July 2022 Commons Chamber

[Hilary Benn]

We clearly have a problem, the absence of the Assembly and the Executive, and the cause is the operation of the protocol. I have said many times to European colleagues I have spoken to that the Commission needs to move in the negotiations. But one of the consequences is that we now have an absolutely terrible relationship with our biggest, nearest and most important trading partners. That is one reason why this is an extremely unwise Bill.

The honest answer to some of the questions that have been put in the debate is that there is not an easy answer because of the contradictions inherent in Brexit, the point my hon. Friend the Member for Walthamstow (Stella Creasy) made so eloquently a moment ago, although one of the consequences is that Northern Ireland, alone in the United Kingdom, has access to the single market of the European Union as well as to the market of the rest of the United Kingdom.

The reason for me why the Bill is so egregious is that the Government have chosen to pursue it when they have a means of taking the problem to the European Union in the form of article 16. One wonders what the negotiations were like when article 16 was drafted. “What if we have a disagreement about the way the protocol works? Let’s set up a mechanism for dealing with it.” Yet the Government have refused to use it. When I asked the Foreign Secretary why, she said she was a patriot and a democrat. Those are two very worthy things to be, but that is not a reason for abrogating a treaty you have negotiated and signed. It is a long time since I said this to the right hon. and learned Member for Torridge and West Devon (Sir Geoffrey Cox), but I agree completely with the argument he made as to why this is not something the Government should do. It is damaging our relationship and I do not think it will solve the problem.

The Bill is very clever. It is very well drafted and it is a unilateral switch that allows Ministers to turn stuff on and off. That is what it does. Clause 15, which has been part of this debate, contains, in the words of the seventh report of the House of Lords Delegated Powers and Regulated Reform Committee

“a power of the sort we rarely see—a power that in essence allows Ministers to rip up and rewrite an Act of Parliament.”

The Government claim that is necessary because things may come along that they want then to exclude, but there is a point of principle here. If Ministers decide that an Act of Parliament is not working in the way in which it was intended, they should come back to Parliament and Parliament should look at it, rather than Ministers saying, “In that eventuality, I want to take powers to do it by delegated legislation.”

Clause 15(1) lists a series of purposes for which the powers can be used. With no irony, one of the purposes—I could not believe it when I read it—is:

“securing compliance with, or giving effect to, any international obligation or agreement to which the United Kingdom is a party”.

The Government have tried to be virtuous in writing that in, but they then say that there is one exception to that, which is the EU withdrawal agreement and the protocol.

On article 18 of the withdrawal agreement itself, I note the commitment the Minister gave from the Dispatch Box. I urge him, for the avoidance of all doubt, to write that into the three specific exceptions. He has done it for the rights of citizens and the other two, and I advise the Government to put it in there for the avoidance of all doubt.

Along with many Members, I voted against the Bill on Second Reading. I think that it is beyond repair, as has been said, but that does not mean that we should not vote for things that will make it slightly less egregious. That is why I support the amendments tabled by the hon. Member for Bromley and Chislehurst (Sir Robert Neill) and new clause 10, which was advocated for so ably by my hon. Friend the Member for Hove (Peter Kyle), who speaks for the Opposition on Northern Ireland matters.

[Carla Lockhart (Upper Bann) (DUP)]

Today in my constituency, more than 100,000 people will gather in the small, rural village of Scarva for what is the largest parade of the year and what many believe to be the biggest one-day festival in the whole of Europe. It is a fantastic day of colour, music, pageantry and tradition—a celebration of civil and religious liberty for all. I am very sorry to miss it, but I know that those gathered there will be very supportive of what I am in this place to say about the Bill and the protocol. They would want me to reiterate that the Irish sea border must go.

It has been encouraging in recent days to hear some of those who have declared that they are standing to be our next Prime Minister state that they are committed to the Bill. Furthermore, it is welcome to hear from the new Secretary of State—I wish him well in his post—that his priority is to see a Northern Ireland Executive restored. Indeed, we share that priority.

The pathway to the restoration of a fully functioning Assembly and Executive at Stormont is through the Bill, the removal of the sea border and a return to the consensus politics that has been the trademark of our political progress to date. I therefore feel compelled to draw attention to a number of amendments in the names of—but not exclusively—the hon. Members for North Down (Stephen Farry), for Belfast South (Claire Hanna) and for Foyle (Colum Eastwood). Amendments 3 to 5 and new clause 7, which move to restrict the operation of the Bill unless it is approved by the Northern Ireland Assembly, make no mention of cross-community consent, meaning that they are clearly majoritarian in outlook.

The Committee understands that, in Northern Ireland, when one community feel ignored or marginalised or that their views are downtrodden, it brings tension and instability. It is a matter of deep regret that the parties who, for years, have preached consensus and consent now appear to want to tell Unionists that their views do not matter. “We shall overcome” has become “We shall overrule”.

The consequences of such an approach will be vast and extremely damaging. I cannot be clearer on the consequences: Stormont will not come back; community relations will further deteriorate; and the progress made on the basis of consensus will be ruined. No one with a shred of political leadership or responsibility would want that. That is why the amendments that prerequisite approval of the Northern Ireland Assembly must be rejected.

In the time remaining, I turn to the amendments that suggest that EU approval ought to be secured prior to the Government acting or the article 16 provisions being followed. Are those who have tabled such amendments aware that we have reached this point because such agreement has not been possible? The EU position is crystal clear—no renegotiation—yet Members of this House, who are elected to serve the interests of this country and its people, are handing a veto to the EU.

This Government were elected on the back of wanting to “take back control”. Any Government that would accept such amendments would be doing the reverse. It is disappointing, but the amendment paper can be seen for what it is: a wreckers’ charter—to wreck not only the Bill, but our political process in Northern Ireland. I urge the Government to reject the amendments.