Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Bill Esterson and Huw Irranca-Davies

Monday 21st May 2012 Commons Chamber

[Bill Esterson (Sefton Central) (Lab)]

9. What assessment she has made of the effect of change in police numbers on the level of crime since May 2010.

[Huw Irranca-Davies (Ogmore) (Lab)]

16. What assessment she has made of the effect of change in police numbers on the level of crime since May 2010.

[The Minister for Policing and Criminal Justice (Nick Herbert)]

The Home Affairs Committee said last year:

“We accept that there is no simple relationship between numbers of police officers and levels of crime.”

The Government agree.

Public Forest Estate (England)

Debate between Bill Esterson and Huw Irranca-Davies

Wednesday 2nd February 2011 Commons Chamber

[Huw Irranca-Davies]

That is a very useful clarification, which I accept.

The former Secretary of State, my right hon. Friend the Member for Leeds Central (Hilary Benn), who is now shadow Leader of the House, was always clear about the Forestry Commission. He and generations of senior Ministers with the same responsibility held jealously to public ownership of the forest estate, because that was in the interests of the British people. Why? There are 13 million tonnes of carbon stored in the trees, 22 million tonnes in the ground and more than 100 million day visitors every year. Public access is protected under the Countryside and Rights of Way Act 2000, and the forest estate is the largest provider of green space around cities, including regeneration and growth areas such as Merseyside, Manchester and the Thames Gateway, with 3,500 hectares established over the 10 years to 2009 and more potential to expand that green infrastructure. Even then, only 10% of the population—notably, in disadvantaged areas—have access to any woodland within 500 metres of home. We are still way below the EU average.

[Bill Esterson]

My hon. Friend mentions Merseyside, and one of my constituents from Crosby, Kay Redmond, backs up what he says about keeping the forests in public ownership

“to maintain current access for the public and to protect the diverse wildlife found in forests”.

[Huw Irranca-Davies]

My hon. Friend’s constituent is absolutely right. The issue is about not only timber production and public access, but biodiversity and locked-up carbon. It is about the 1.5 million tonnes of timber produced annually and sustainably; the £1.1 billion of economic value for £17 million in operating costs; the potential further restoration, which comes with the Forestry Commission, of ancient woodlands; and the £100 million of partnership funding in the 10 years to 2009. It is also about the commercial ventures, which were expanding, with the Caravan Club, Go Ape, forest concerts and the Forest Holidays company. In addition, parliamentary funding for the Forestry Commission dropped from 36% in 2003 to 24% in 2007. If that were not good enough, there was also potential for 200 MW of renewable wood fuel energy from managed forests, hydro, geothermal, and, if Ministers were so included, wind energy. I could go on and on.

All that is now at risk, despite reassurances from the Minister and the Secretary of State. Those sound to the public—and to an old sceptic and former Minister like me—like the reassuring words spoken at a deathbed, because that is what this is. It is the funeral of the publicly owned forestry estate. It is the death of the body of expertise and co-ordination that lies within the Forestry Commission. It is the killing off of jobs, skills and knowledge.

Public access is at risk, too. The post-war Labour Government brought in the National Parks and Access to the Countryside Act 1949. We introduced the right to roam. Only recently, my right hon. Friend the Member for Leeds Central designated the South Downs national park, and I took through the provisions for the England coastal path in the Marine and Coastal Access Act 2009. Since this Government came in, we have seen soft-pedalling on the England coastal path, and now we are seeing back-pedalling on access to our woodlands.

It does not even make economic sense, even by the Government’s own figures and the figures in the report mentioned by the Secretary of State. The cost in public goods lost far outweighs the benefits. The Treasury has not given thought to the fact that for every £100 million of woodlands sold off, £40 million will be lost in inheritance or other taxes, as companies and individuals buy woodland as tax write-offs. Are they going to look after it?

There is not enough time to say how the Government are now trashing the hard-won policy launched only last year which brought together, for the first time ever, carbon and climate change issues with biodiversity to improve the diversity of woodland habitats. There is the issue of climate change alone. I quote from our public service agreement 28—yes, we were the Government who had binding targets for ancient woodlands and priority habitats—which said:

“In the face of climate change, a successful strategy would require a landscape-scale approach, joining up the highly fragmented ownership pattern into a shared endeavour”.

The last and only other time this sell-off was contemplated was under John Major’s Conservative Government. Here we go again—back to the 1980s. If I have not made the Government think again, the public surely will.