Harvey’s Law

Debate between Bill Esterson and Derek Twigg

Monday 2nd March 2015 Westminster Hall

[Derek Twigg]

I agree with the hon. Lady. Her passion about this issue comes through, and I thank her for making that point.

Going back to the information I was talking about, the other question that needs to be asked is whether something would have been done to address the issue sooner if the facts originally given had been correct and not so misleading.

What do we want to see happen? We want to see the compulsory scanning of all domestic animals retrieved from the highways, and a log report filed and circulated to both the police and dog warden, which goes back to the point made by my hon. Friend the Member for Denton and Reddish (Andrew Gwynne). We also want to see photographs of the deceased being held with the log report to be used for identification purposes.

The desired outcome is clearly legislation to make that activity compulsory, but we would see the alternative outcome of simply adding scanning back into the Highways Agency’s procedures as a good start and a positive move forward. However, that could leave the system open to abuse, and it could fall foul of any cuts or savings that any future Government want to make. That is why enshrining the requirements in law is important, but reintegrating the scanning procedure would be a step forward.

If the Minister does not say today that legislation will be introduced, but does say, as we hope, that the procedure will be changed back, some questions will still need to be asked, and he may want to consider them. If there is no legislation, how will the issue be policed and regulated? Who will inspect whether the procedures are being adhered to and how frequently? Who will train the staff to scan correctly? That is an important point, because the entire body needs to be scanned, not just the neck area, as chips can migrate in an animal’s body. The whole procedure takes only a matter of seconds; it is not something that will cause a lot of problems.

I am also informed by Harvey’s law campaigners that legislation is fully supported by a significant number of high-profile organisations, including the Royal Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals, the Pet Industry Federation, Agria Pet Insurance, Vetsonline, Lostbox and so on, as well as a whole host of pet publications, including Life With Pets and Dogs Today.

[Bill Esterson (Sefton Central) (Lab)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend on securing the debate and thank everybody who has lobbied me in support. As a pet owner, I am delighted to be here supporting the e-petition today. I visited Battersea Dogs and Cats home recently, and the staff impressed on me just how important this issue is. Similarly, when I visit Freshfields animal rescue centre in my constituency, the staff there make the same point. We heard from the hon. Member for Stourbridge (Margot James) about the importance to humans of pets, but I think many people misunderstand how strong the emotional ties are and just how much bereavement people go through. I take this opportunity to impress on the Minister that the debate is probably more about the emotional well-being of people, and their attachment to their pets, than anything else. My hon. Friend the Member for Halton (Derek Twigg) has made the case for why that is so important, and I hope that the Minister will respond in that vein.

[Derek Twigg]

I thank my hon. Friend. He brings passion to the debate, and I know from previous conversations how desperate he was to ensure that he could be here today. He makes the point about the impact on the well-being of pet owners of a loss that is made worse by the tragic circumstances that we are discussing.

Costs are a bit difficult to pin down, but clearly the Highways Agency already holds much of the relevant equipment, so there really cannot be a massive extra cost for it. Unfortunately, it will still have to remove pets from the road, take them away and deal with them as it would normally.

Hillsborough

Debate between Bill Esterson and Derek Twigg

Monday 22nd October 2012 Commons Chamber

[Bill Esterson (Sefton Central) (Lab)]

You are most kind, as always, Madam Deputy Speaker.

The families and their supporters deserve huge credit for how they have stuck to their guns and for the dignity, restraint and perseverance with which they have continued their fight in the face of a catalogue of smears from the press and cover-ups by the establishment. Ninety-six people went to watch a football match and died, but their families have been treated as if their loved ones were criminals. That has now stopped, thankfully, and the Government have started the process of setting the record straight.

Fifteen-year-old Kevin Williams, 17-year-old Steven Robinson, 18-year-old Gary Jones and 18-year-old Christopher Devonside were among the 18 victims from the borough of Sefton. Their families have told me that they want new inquests and that they want those responsible to be prosecuted. Christopher’s father, Barry, was at the match and saw what happened to the victims as he sat in the stand while his son was in the Leppings Lane end with a friend. Barry was given the run-around on the day by the police. We now have confirmation that this was while the cover-up was starting and senior police officers were desperately trying to agree a story blaming the victims for their own deaths. Barry also attended the inquests. He told me what happened when the results were announced. In front of Barry and other family members, the police celebrated the accidental death verdict. In his words, “Crates of wine and beer were brought into an adjacent room where about 20 senior police officers toasted their success with the coroner.” As he said to me, “How’s that for impartiality?”

The way that the inquests were carried out, the way that the evidence was ignored, the way that witnesses were intimidated and the way that police evidence was altered—all this showed that a cover-up was being carried out, part of a massive miscarriage of justice, alongside an arbitrary decision by the coroner that all must have been dead or beyond saving by 3.15 pm. No wonder, then, that Barry Devonside and the other families have always maintained that the inquests did not tell them how or why their loved ones died, and that it protected those responsible for their deaths.

Other Members of the House have addressed the key issues which come from the independent panel’s report. I add my congratulations to the panel on the work that it has done, and to colleagues in the House who have worked to help the families reach the position that they are in today. The Prime Minister gave a full apology in his statement last month, and the Home Secretary and Attorney-General have done everything that has been asked of them. For that this Government deserve praise. Previous Governments have failed the families and we need to ensure that no more time is lost. It is not possible to make up for lost time, but it is possible to minimise future delay.

The report of the independent panel highlights what went wrong before the event, on the day and in the immediate aftermath, and in the days, months and years after. Much of the evidence in the report is not new, of course, but the report has set it out in a way which allows calls for new inquests to be addressed and for prosecutions to be considered. The report makes the simple point that the policing of football matches was regarded as a matter of control. Public safety was completely ignored. Anyone attending a football match at the time knew only too well that we were regarded with suspicion at best and outright hostility at worst by many of those supposed to be there to keep us safe. The culture of watching football meant that Hillsborough was an accident waiting to happen.

I attended the 1987 semi-final at Hillsborough. I was in the Leppings Lane end. My hon. Friend the Member for Wansbeck (Ian Lavery) described his experience of attending a match with Newcastle in the same location and in the same end. When we left that ground, we felt that we were lucky to escape without serious injury or death. The same thing happened in 1981 and 1988, yet the lessons learned were not applied in full. Some would argue that the behaviour of the police meant that this was no accident, but that is no doubt something for the special prosecutor to consider when he or she looks at the evidence. As the report makes clear, the disaster could have happened at any one of a number of matches in previous years or at a number of other football grounds.

The Attorney-General has already announced that he will apply to the High Court for fresh inquests into the deaths of all 96 victims. Gaining new inquests is the top priority for the families. At the original inquests the coroner decided that all victims must have been dead by 3.15 pm, despite evidence that many were still alive, including 15-year-old Kevin Williams, whose mum Anne has worked so hard to have the verdict overturned. The fact that the Attorney-General is convinced that he can succeed in having the verdicts overturned in the courts this time shows how right Anne and the other families have been all along. The independent panel has found evidence that at least 41 of the victims may still have been alive at 3.15 pm, and that number may be higher. The decision to have a cut-off at 3.15 pm has meant that evidence about the emergency response has not been fully examined. Only 11% of the evidence was considered by the coroner. As the independent panel says in chapter 4:

“The emergency response to the Hillsborough disaster has not previously been fully examined, because of the assumption that the outcome for those who died was irretrievably fixed long before they could have been helped.”

A new inquest would allow a new coroner to consider all the evidence and to decide why the 96 died. A different verdict would show that the victims died as a result of the failings of the police and other authorities.

[Derek Twigg]

My hon. Friend has made some important points about where blame lies. I agree with my hon. Friend the Member for Sheffield South East (Mr Betts), for whom I have immense respect, that the police were overwhelmingly to blame. However, as I said in my speech, Sheffield Wednesday football club also needs to be held to account. The key thing was that the radial fences were put in. It was envisaged that there would be access via direct turnstiles and dedicated facilities, but this was not pursued. The report says that there was

“no way of knowing accurately how many fans were in each area.”

That is a very important point that needs to be examined further.

[Bill Esterson]

My hon. Friend has worked incredibly hard with the families over very many years, as have other hon. Members. He is quite right that that key finding of the report needs to be properly examined. It shows the difference between the Sheffield Wednesday ground, where the recommendation was not deployed, and other grounds where there could possibly have been problems.