Kashmir

Debate between Barry Gardiner and Andrew Griffiths

Thursday 11th September 2014 Westminster Hall

[Andrew Griffiths (Burton) (Con)]

It is a great pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Hollobone. I speak as the chairman of the all-party group on Kashmir. I congratulate the hon. Member for Bradford East (Mr Ward) on securing this debate and introducing it so well. I also congratulate Raja Najabat Hussain, as other colleagues have done, for informing Members and bringing this issue to our attention. I welcome Barrister Sultan Mahmood Chaudhry, former Prime Minister of Azad Kashmir, who joins us for this important debate.

Obviously, I am at the tail end of this debate, so I do not want to repeat too much of what other hon. Members have said. Perhaps it might be more helpful if I addressed some of the points raised. A suggestion was made at the beginning that this debate should not be taking place at all—that we are wrong to debate the issue in the House. However, I tell the people who say that that the 4,500 to 5,000 Kashmiris/Pakistanis in my constituency expect us to raise these issues. The hon. Member for Brent North (Barry Gardiner) got quite exercised about whether we should be making this case. I gently point out to him that a look at his Hansard appearances shows that in the last few weeks he has spoken about Gaza, Israel and Ukraine, so there is a precedent for us to talk about international issues.

[Barry Gardiner]

Of course, we must debate international issues. My point was quite simply that, under the Simla agreement, the two countries will deal with the matter bilaterally. To that extent, it is not for the British Government to interfere.

[Andrew Griffiths]

I politely point out to the hon. Gentleman that there was also an agreement at the United Nations—resolution 47, in 1948—which called for a plebiscite in Kashmir and for the people of Kashmir to have a voice on this issue. It might be inconvenient for the hon. Gentleman, but those are the facts.

[Barry Gardiner]

rose—

[Andrew Griffiths]

No. I think I have heard enough from the hon. Gentleman. I have a short amount of time, so I should like to move on.

It is sad that this debate started off in such aggressive tones, because we should not forget that it is not about lines on a map or territory, but about humans and humanity. That must be central in all discussions that take place on this issue.

We have heard some fantastic speeches. I pay tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for Wycombe (Steve Baker) for leading the first debate on Kashmir on the Floor of the House, in which he spoke eloquently and was very informed. I had the pleasure of visiting Pakistan and Kashmir with my friend the hon. Member for Rochdale (Simon Danczuk), and talking to people who had been affected by this issue. The hon. Member for Birmingham, Ladywood (Shabana Mahmood) also made a fantastic speech.

I want to talk about the impact of this situation on the people of Kashmir. We need to talk about human rights. The hon. Lady mentioned the report compiled by Amnesty International, “India: A ‘Lawless Law’”, which considered the operations of the 500,000 Indian troops stationed in this area—just think about that figure for a second. We heard earlier that, of course, the elections had taken place and that it was all fine: nobody had raised the issue of separatism in the elections. I say gently that there are 500,000 troops with guns pointed at people in this area, so it is slightly difficult to accept that an election can take place under those circumstances.

My hon. Friend the Member for Harrow East (Bob Blackman) says, “Well, this is a minority in Indian-administered Kashmir who want a plebiscite and their right to self-determination.” If that is so and he genuinely thinks that only a small minority of people in Indian-administered Kashmir are in favour of independence, then let them have the vote. What is there to worry about? What have the Indian Government got to worry about?

Human Rights on the Indian Subcontinent

Debate between Barry Gardiner and Andrew Griffiths

Thursday 15th September 2011 Commons Chamber

[Andrew Griffiths]

I agree, and I know that the hon. Gentleman does a great deal in this House on these issues. I congratulate him on that.

[Barry Gardiner]

The hon. Gentleman asked why the world was not doing something about Kashmir. Does he agree that that may have something to do with the Simla agreement, under which Pakistan and India agreed that they would settle the issue bilaterally without outside interference, and in a completely peaceful way?

[Andrew Griffiths]

I am afraid that I would agree more if we had seen more proactive responses from both Pakistan and India. Having been to the Pakistan-administered side of Kashmir and spoken to many people, I found it frustrating to see that many politicians there are inhibiting the efforts to find a solution.