Warm Homes Plan

Baroness Young of Old Scone Excerpts

Tuesday 27th January 2026 Lords Chamber

[Lord Whitehead (Lab)]

There is a large number of applications of anonymised and aggregated data from smart meters, assuming that you have enough smart meters installed in any one place to make the data meaningful. We still have some problems with that and the smart meter rollout but, in general, it can be used for a variety of applications. For example, the warm homes programme is looking to develop area-based applications wherever possible: having the data on where people in fuel poverty are and what areas have a concentration of such people gives you a very good chance of making sure that you can relate the investment that you are putting in with actually making a difference on fuel poverty. Previously, one of the problems with schemes was that we just did not know where those people were. Quite often, the schemes operated a scattergun approach that did not really hit the target as they should have done.

[Baroness Young of Old Scone (Lab)]

My Lords, I welcome the Statement from the bottom of my heart because, for a long time, I have been very uneasy that we have approaching 1.6 million children living in conditions that can only be described as Dickensian. It simply should not happen in a modern UK. We are uniquely exposed to the volatile gas price and we have the least energy-efficient houses in Europe. It is a litany of failure and I think that this plan goes some way to turning that around, at long last.

It tackles three very important issues as far as I am concerned. I want to explore one in particular with the Minister. It tackles the cost of living issue, which is going to be even more important in view of the volatility of the global political situation. It tackles the health impacts on poor families and of poor building standards, and it creates UK jobs. But when the Environment and Climate Change Committee took a look at some of the issues to do with consumer behaviour and change to new systems, the lesson that came out loud and clear from all the witnesses we saw was that they wanted help to make it easier and cheaper to switch from inadequate, polluting and ineffective standards to modern technologies. The role of the warm homes agency is very welcome and is really important. Can the Minister tell us a bit more about how that agency will be tasked with ensuring that the schemes that are in place do not fail and that the sort of consumer confidence to make the change that is going to be really fundamental to this is going to be promoted?

[Lord Whitehead (Lab)]

My noble friend is right to focus attention on the extent to which consumers and the general public will have confidence in the changes that are afoot and will be able to make decisions as to how they participate in those changes in the best way possible. I think that is one area where, as a country, we have been quite lacking in the past—although I exempt from this the nation of Scotland, which for quite a while has had a national advice agency in place, giving impartial advice and assistance and seeing that through to installation.

One of the functions of the warm homes agency will be to provide unbiased, informed advice and assistance to ensure that what is being proposed for individuals’ homes—and after all, they are the things that are most important in their lives and the things they are most concerned to get right—are done with a high degree of transparency, reliability and effectiveness. I hope that will be an early development of the warm homes agency as it comes into place. In the context of what we have seen just recently with the problems that ECO4 has had and the Public Accounts Committee report on it, we really do have to have that advice in place, and also that regulation to make sure that the standards that we think we are delivering to people really can be applied properly.

Offshore Wind

Baroness Young of Old Scone Excerpts

Monday 19th January 2026 Lords Chamber

[Lord Whitehead (Lab)]

I am afraid the noble Lord will have to wait for about a week before the warm homes plan comes out. That will contain, so I am reliably informed, a great deal of detail about precisely the areas of heat, efficient low-carbon homes, heat pumps—all the sorts of things that are the other side of the energy revolution. We hope they will begin to be combined together into coherent programmes, working with each other to ensure that, among other things, that greatest piece of low-carbon energy—the energy you do not use—is properly incorporated into overall programmes.

I assure the noble Lord that this is uppermost in our minds. We are aiming, as we always have, to develop a comprehensive palette of policies that will deal with all aspects of low-carbon energy, energy security and energy efficiency. Indeed, the noble Lord will note that the AR7 announcement is not complete, inasmuch as there are further pots to be reported on, including solar, tidal, geothermal and various other things, in the next week or so. So I hope we will come back to this Chamber and compare and contrast notes on the picture that we will have when those two things have actually happened. I think the noble Lord will be pretty pleased with what will result from it.

[Baroness Young of Old Scone (Lab)]

My Lords, I commend the Minister on this Statement and welcome it very much. It is a welcome return from the terrible days when you put out an auction and nobody played the game. It really was quite heartbreaking when we had those dreadful doldrum days.

I shall focus on something that the noble Lord, Lord Moynihan, raised, which is the increased demand for energy, particularly that caused by data and AI centres. The one thing we must not allow to happen is that we accept that that is a given. We have been fairly effective in keeping the whole concept of energy efficiency alive, and the warm homes standard is going to be a good example of that. The question about the predictions of the energy demand of AI needs to be approached in a different way that says we cannot simply see demand increase but must adopt measures that mean that some of these centres are using not only the most up-to-date modern technologies but are encouraging future technologies in order to reduce their impact on the environment, by not only energy use but water use. I would love to say that photonics is the answer if I only knew what photonics is, but technologies are being talked about that will impact on AI demand. I would appreciate a comforting voice from the Minister that at this very new point in seeing a further increase in demand, we will not lose sight of trying to examine seriously possible technologies.

Drax

Baroness Young of Old Scone Excerpts

Wednesday 10th December 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Whitehead (Lab)]

The noble Baroness will know that Drax is the largest single power producer in the UK and is responsible for about 5% of UK power. That means that it uses an enormous amount of biomass in its process, having converted from coal some while ago. The question, then, is where Drax gets its biomass from, bearing in mind that the amount of biomass that is being grown in this country falls far short of the desideratum in terms of sourcing—particularly in view of the length of time that it has taken to grow that biomass. Therefore, sourcing from abroad appears to make some sense, though not necessarily for the long-term future.

[Baroness Young of Old Scone (Lab)]

My Lords, the Minister’s own department is consulting on sustainability criteria for biomass as we speak, which will inform future subsidy eligibility and reporting requirements for the rest of the market. In addition, the Financial Conduct Authority is still investigating Drax’s biomass sourcing statements. What safeguards have been built into the new Drax contract that covers 2027-31? Will the results of these two inquiries produce changes to the terms of the recently signed Drax contract?

[Lord Whitehead (Lab)]

I cannot assure the noble Baroness that terms will be changed during the new contract. However, the LCCC will be responsible for making sure that the 100% sustainability criteria that have been entered into in the new contract will be strictly observed. That is a substantial step forward from the previous oversight arrangements.

Biodiversity Beyond National Jurisdiction Bill

Baroness Young of Old Scone Excerpts

2nd reading
Tuesday 2nd December 2025 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Young of Old Scone (Lab)]

My Lords, I declare my environmental interests in the register and join other noble Lords in welcoming the noble Lord, Lord Whitehead, to our House—an environmentalist to the FCDO, which is wonderful. I also welcome this Bill which, as many noble Lords have said, will help to protect two-thirds of the world’s oceans, but will also be a big UK contribution to supporting the 30 by 30 commitment made as part of the Kunming-Montreal Global Biodiversity Framework. I hope it will also be a positive statement about the UK’s leadership contribution on climate and biodiversity, although it would have been more convincing, perhaps, if we had shown similar leadership on future forests at the recent climate COP at Belém. But, while thanking the Government—I think I have just thanked the Government—can I do an Oliver Twist act and ask for more? I have got five minutes and I have got five asks.

As the Minister and other noble Lords have already stressed, can we keep the pressure up to get this Bill and the secondary legislation through, so that we can ensure a place at the first conference of the parties next year?

Secondly, can my noble friend the Minister ensure that UK actions at home and abroad reflect the values of the treaty? I will give two examples of where we should be demonstrating our commitment to these values. One has already been mentioned: progress so far in ending bottom trawling in all our marine protected areas here in the UK. What has been proposed at the moment is inadequate, and we need to do better than that. Under the Chagos deal, which is a cause close to my heart, because it involves one of the largest, most wonderful and most important marine protected areas, can the Minister tell the House what further progress has been made to make sure that the MPA around the Chagos Archipelago is properly safeguarded with the transfer to Mauritius?

My third ask is for the Minister to reaffirm the UK’s position on the moratorium on deep-sea mining and licensing that has already been referenced now that President Trump is going ahead and ignoring the International Seabed Authority. My fourth is for the Minister to urge her Defra colleagues to produce a strategy for overfishing beyond 2026, at the end of the current commitments for the UK.

The Fisheries Act simply is not working. Quotas are not based on evidence. I was convinced that the noble Lord, Lord Krebs, who is not in his place, was going to make a sturdy, evidence-based statement about that, but he did not, damn him, and I had not done the research in order to back that up—but he would have if he had thought about it. Some 27% of commercial fish stocks are critically low and a further 25% are suffering from overexploitation. More than half of UK fishing opportunities are being allocated in excess of scientific advice, which the noble Lord, Lord Krebs, would have spoken about, and that is not only leading to heavy declines in key stocks but undermining the sustainability of fishing livelihoods. It is impossible to deliver economic growth within fishing if we continue to deplete the asset on which the sector depends.

The combination of declining stocks and increasing concentration of quota in the hands of a very few, mostly foreign-owned vessels means that the inshore fleet is now on its knees. This is causing job losses and hardship in coastal towns that are very important electorally, I say to my party. So will the Government commit to a full review of the Fisheries Act? My last call is, of course, one that has already been referred to. Last but not least, 145 countries have signed the Global Ocean Treaty, of which 73 have now formally ratified. Will my noble friend the Minister update the House on what steps the Government are taking to persuade those nations that have not yet formally ratified to do so?

Nuclear Regulatory Taskforce Review

Baroness Young of Old Scone Excerpts

Thursday 27th November 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Vallance of Balham (Lab)]

The noble Lord raises an important point about Wylfa. There are two aspects of this in relation to regulations. Small modular reactors are a way to ensure that we have a streamlined approach, because they will all be built in the same way and the regulation will apply to each one consistently. That in itself will speed up the process. But the first reactor will, of course, be the first and it will inevitably be a bit more complicated than the ones that follow. In terms of the application to Wales, the regulators that have UK-wide responsibilities will fall under the Fingleton review, and we will adopt the same processes. For those that have devolved accountabilities in Wales, we will discuss with Welsh Ministers and the Government.

[Baroness Young of Old Scone (Lab)]

My Lords, I welcome the report in overall terms, but is my noble friend the Minister aware of the considerable concern in the scientific community about the accuracy of some of the data on fish impacts used in case studies about disproportionate decisions, which the report uses to criticise current nuclear regulation perhaps in a slightly inappropriate area? Is the Minister confident that the rest of the report is therefore reliable? Would the Minister meet with me and those scientists whose research demonstrates that some of the case studies in that area are not perhaps reliable?

[Lord Vallance of Balham (Lab)]

I thank my noble friend for the question. I wondered how long it would take for fish to come up, and it has come up very quickly. It is important to note the burden of regulation on the nuclear industry in this country is far greater than in any other country. It is more expensive to build things here and it takes longer. For example, the environmental impact assessment for Hinkley Point was 31,401 pages; for Sizewell C, it was 44,260 pages. I understand the point my noble friend is making about the fish. The task force is one that recognises clearly that environmental processes are important. It does not aim to dilute them, but to ensure that decisions are faster, more predictable and proportionate. I would of course be happy to meet my noble friend to discuss any concerns she has about the specifics.

Warm Home Discount

Baroness Young of Old Scone Excerpts

Monday 3rd March 2025 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Young of Old Scone (Lab)]

My Lords, I welcome the Statement about the measures that the Government are taking to help hard-pressed families keep warm and to alleviate fuel poverty.

I want to make just two points. On the electricity market reform, I would press the point made by the noble Earl, Lord Russell. Governments have been talking about electricity market reform for over two years now. The link with the gas market has become so dysfunctional that I must press the Minister for some urgency on this.

I would also like to raise a question on an area that is not covered by the Statement but is a vital part of ensuring that people do not remain in fuel poverty: new-build homes. We are going to build a considerable number of new-build homes, and the future homes standard 2025 is about to be introduced on a serial basis, but it rather misses the opportunity of going further. All new homes should not just have heat pumps and improved ventilation and insulation but should come fully equipped with solar panels, a battery wall and an electric vehicle charger.

Putting those in at the beginning may mean a small increase in a house price but trying to retrofit them immediately afterwards means a big sum for many households. Can the Minister give us some assurances about pressing the pace on electricity market reform and geeing up the future homes standard?

I advise the Minister not to be upset when the volume housebuilders make a song and dance about this. They made a huge song and dance in the middle of the last decade about energy-efficient and zero-carbon homes. The Government seemed to be about to ignore that and the housebuilders got on with getting ready for zero-carbon homes, but then, at the last minute, George Osborne pulled the rug out from underneath that. This Government can, perhaps, do rather better at facing up to the reality of needing these homes built to the highest possible standards.

[Lord Hunt of Kings Heath (Lab)]

My Lords, those two points from my noble friend are well made. On what is, in essence, mandation in relation to new homes, these points have been strongly put to my department. We are still in discussions across Whitehall in that regard, but I very much take and understand the point that she raises.

In relation to energy market reform, my noble friend urges me and my colleagues to get a move on. Our publication in the autumn has made significant progress in helping us to narrow down how reformed national and zonal pricing could be designed and implemented. We are working with stakeholders on the impact of these reforms. Clearly, they are pretty significant, but we are not delaying this. We have not put this into the long grass; we understand the importance of it.

Biomass Generation

Baroness Young of Old Scone Excerpts

Wednesday 12th February 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hunt of Kings Heath (Lab)]

My Lords, the noble Baroness will know that Ministers do not comment on share prices at the Dispatch Box, for very good reasons.

We need to be clear that Ofgem’s investigation was thorough and rigorous. I have a great deal of trust in the work of Ofgem. The noble Baroness will know that there was no suggestion that Drax was awarded subsidies incorrectly under the existing renewables obligation or contracts for difference arrangements. It was more to with the documentation. The investigation found no evidence to suggest that Drax had been issued with subsidies incorrectly, and Ofgem was confident in its conclusions. Drax made a redress payment because there is a scheme within Ofgem for companies to do that. I must say that £25 million is substantial; I think it was a good indication to Drax that it needs to get its documents in order—and I very much hope that it has done so.

Of course, we will be looking to Ofgem to ensure that that happens, that everything is proper and that, under the new arrangements, we are satisfied that Drax can meet the criteria. This has not been an easy decision. In our debate yesterday, I was interested in the response of the noble Baroness, Lady Boycott, who essentially said that she welcomed the progress; she was not overwhelmed with the decision, but there was an acknowledgement that we are making progress and understand the sensitivities.

One has to come back to the issue of biomass and its sustainability. The UK’s Committee on Climate Change and the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change recognise that bioenergy can play a significant role in decarbonising economies. We support the use of sustainable biomass generators only if it meets our sustainability criteria. I have said we are going to toughen that up. At the end of the day, it is a difficult question. I think we have come to a sensible arrangement, which, after all, is a short-term arrangement in the lifetime of the generators of four years from 2027 to 2031.

[Baroness Young of Old Scone (Lab)]

I would like to ask the Minister which issues will be taken into account for the decision after 2031. I welcome this as a first step towards reducing and hopefully eliminating our reliance on biomass as a sustainable fuel. I recognise that it is difficult at the moment to commit to what will happen in 2031. However, it might be useful to know from the Minister exactly what criteria will surround the decision about 2031, because it will take some time to make that decision. We will probably use up quite a lot of the time between now and then arguing about what the decision is going to be.

In particular, I would like some clarification on the Government’s position and expectation on the Drax carbon capture, utilisation and storage programme. Is that going to continue under the current arrangement, or will it be subject to a separate negotiation? Will it involve additional payments to Drax to fund that programme? How material will the outcome of that programme be on reaching a decision on what happens after 2031?

[Lord Hunt of Kings Heath (Lab)]

My Lords, I cannot say very much more about how we will review post 2031, but I am very happy to talk to my noble friend about her views. I am not unaware of her views about the continuation of the subsidy, as she spoke to me a few months ago.

We probably have to go back to the analysis of NESO and the advice we received on the impact on our electricity system covering the period 2027 to 2031 if support for Drax was withdrawn in 2027. It said that

“having large-scale biomass available in this period could have a significant impact in mitigating potential risks to electricity security of supply and could also support the delivery of clean power by 2030. The analysis showed that without large-scale biomass, security of supply would not be ensured in scenarios with additional supply losses. While alternative options could deliver the same outcomes, these options have greater delivery risks”.

That is clearly one of the factors that would have to be considered in any long-term review, and there will be other factors as well.

Having reached this agreement, I should say to the noble Earl, Lord Russell, that I do not know yet when the statutory instrument will be coming. Work has to be done on that. We also normally have to consult on a draft SI. I think it will probably be some months before we get to debate it, but I understand the importance of that debate.

We have made no decision about the deployment of large scale BECCS. I think I said earlier that we are going to have an independent review, looking at options for greenhouse gas removal, including how large-scale power BECCS and DACCS can assist us. Again, I cannot answer that question, but it is clearly something that we are giving very earnest consideration to at the moment. The noble Baroness speaks with great authority. If she and other noble Lords want to feed in ideas to the department about the long-term review, I would be very happy to take them.

Great British Energy Bill

Baroness Young of Old Scone Excerpts

Report stage
Tuesday 11th February 2025 Lords Chamber

Interestingly, a 20% blend for off-grid properties will not only meet but exceed the carbon budgets straightaway, up to 2035. As I said, millions of people rely on this fuel oil at the moment, and it costs them a lot of money. I hope that Great British Energy will be conscious of the need for oil consumers too, and that it will include the change that I hope will come as a result of some of the things that I put in my amendment—I shall not go into them now—and bring people the comfort that they can still heat their homes, businesses or properties in a cost-effective way. The fuels are available now, the people are available to do it and the series of changes involved would be easy and quick to make. I look forward to my noble friend the Minister’s response to this group.

[Baroness Young of Old Scone (Lab)]

My Lords, I will speak to Amendment 13, to which I have put my name.

I am very clear that biomass is not clean energy. It has substantial downsides: the harvesting cycle does not replace carbon in an equivalent way until many years have passed; and the same goes for the impact on biodiversity—there is not a like-for-like replacement at all.

If we were to grow our own biomass here in the UK, the land take would be substantial and would compromise land uses for multiple other requirements for which we need land, as outlined in the land use framework. If the feedstock comes not from the UK but from overseas sources, that is not a secure source and we are putting ourselves in a position of vulnerability—as indeed we are from other overseas sources of fuel at the moment. It is not a sustainable and secure feedstock.

I welcome the Government’s Drax Statement yesterday, provided that it is only a first step to a rapid phase-down of Drax; I would be grateful if the Minister could confirm that. Can he also confirm whether the Government support the recent Ember report on subsidies post-2031, which shows that the case for a 2030 clean power system for the UK is possible, while reducing considerably our reliance on this expensive, imported biodiversity-unfriendly biomass?

On Amendment 44 in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Boycott, I will ask the Minister for clarification. Will the review of biomass power, which was signalled in the Drax announcement, cover absolutely all the points made by the noble Baroness in subsections (2)(a) to (e) in the new clause proposed by Amendment 44? Can he give us some clarity on that?

I was not intending to comment on Amendment 2 in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Liddell, on carbon capture and storage, but I am afraid that I will have to. I really do not like being on the opposite side from the noble Baroness, because she is a bit of a fighter and two Scots against each other might not be a good idea. But I think we are making a big mistake in overrelying, in the carbon budgets, on carbon capture and storage. I also agree with the noble Lord, Lord Howell—this is an out-of-body experience for me—and disagree with the noble Baroness, Lady Liddell; this is all the wrong way round. The reality is that carbon capture and storage projects are failing worldwide at the moment; they are not proceeding well, and investment is being withdrawn. This is the emperor’s new clothes. We are all saying, “There’s a bloody great hole”—

[Noble Lords]

Oh!

[Baroness Young of Old Scone (Lab)]

Sorry, Hansard.

There is a huge hole in the carbon budgets, in which we have all colluded by saying, “Well, carbon capture and storage will fill that hole”. But what happens if it is the emperor’s new clothes and it does not work? We have to be very wary and understand what is happening at the moment. The Government are, quite rightly, throwing quite a lot of money at carbon capture and storage to trial it out as quickly as possible to find out whether we here in the UK can make it happen. If we can, great; let us replicate it very fast. If we cannot, we have to find some other solutions.

My final point is in support of the noble Lord, Lord Berkeley—

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

I thank the noble Baroness for giving way. I do not want it to sound as though CCUS is the answer to everything, but surely the whole concept of carbon sinks, of trying to preserve our forests—which are rapidly disappearing—and of developing new freshwater areas around the world in desert areas, as has been proposed in a very elaborate series of schemes, is doing just that: they are trying to capture carbon directly out of the atmosphere or from projects which are belting out carbon. What is wrong about that? I do not quite see why she is so dismissive.

[Baroness Young of Old Scone (Lab)]

I am probably breaking the rules here—I should address the House rather than the noble Lord—but nature-based solutions, which create biodiversity and other benefits, such as benefits for human health, mental health, water purification and flood control, are excellent schemes if they can be made to work effectively and cost effectively, bearing in mind all the benefits. Carbon capture and storage from industrial processes or, indeed, from air sources—from carbon that is already out there—is the bit that is not yet tested and not yet proven. We need to get ahead and decide whether we can make that work in the UK, which, I hope, is what the Government are trying to do. Perhaps the Minister will confirm that.

On Amendment 35, I share the joys with noble Lord, Lord Berkeley—not in the same house, I may say—of being an off-grid home owner who wants to do their bit for carbon reduction. At the moment, the choice for the average home owner in a rural property of an aged sort, which is highly dependent on oil because they are off the gas grid, is not terrific. You live in trembling fear of the wretched boiler breaking down: in an emergency situation such as that, the choice that then faces you is either just slamming in another oil-fired boiler, or else shelling out 20-odd thousand and waiting in the cold for six months while they work out how to put in an air source heat pump, which will probably not work at all anyway. It is not a choice. We need options for that rather beleaguered population in the country, many of whom live in aged, drafty houses and have very little assets of their own to be able to upgrade or may have a listed building of the sort you cannot upgrade.

Renewable liquid fuel seems to allow a simple transition using existing kit rather than having to capitalise up front for a totally new technology. It could produce—literally from next week, if you wanted it to—carbon reductions of up to 80%. I support the amendment tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Berkeley, and I hope the Government can do that too.

[Lord Krebs (CB)]

My Lords, I did not intend to speak in this debate, but I will say a few words about biomass and Drax. In so doing, I have to declare a conflict of interest in that I chair Drax’s independent advisory board on sustainable biomass.

The point I want to make is very simple: the devil is in the detail. There are circumstances under which biomass is not sustainable as a source of energy, where it does not replace the carbon emitted from the chimney stack by the growth of new trees. On the other hand, there are circumstances under which it is carbon neutral. Therefore, the crucial thing is to understand whether Drax is sourcing its material in a sustainable way.

It is not my job here to defend Drax and it is certainly not my job to comment on government subsidy, but I can say that there is a very detailed literature on forest carbon. If any noble Lords wish to make assertions about the carbon neutrality or otherwise of biomass burned by Drax at its power station, they should first study this literature in great detail and not rely on second-hand reports on “Panorama” or in other media outlets. So, I simply urge those noble Lords who wish to comment on Drax to study the detail.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Boycott (CB)]

Okay.

[Baroness Young of Old Scone (Lab)]

My Lords, may I add to the outbreak of harmony by thanking the noble Earl, Lord Russell, and the Minister for Amendment 8? As the noble Baroness, Lady Boycott, said, it is great to see local community benefit coming on to the face of the Bill. Especially since all the supporting material about GB Energy is very strong on community energy schemes, it just seemed rather crazy that it was not in the Bill, so I say thank you for that.

Ideally, of course—we environmentalists are miserable people who always want more, so I am moving on to Amendment 22, to which I also have added my name—with the Government having gone as far as Amendment 8, which puts community energy schemes on the face of the Bill, it would be quite nice to get slightly more specific recognition that such schemes need to be part of the strategic priorities. Therefore, can the Minister say why he will not accept Amendment 22, which I assume he will not support?

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP)]

My Lords, I shall join in the general outbreak of harmony that has struck your Lordships’ House and welcome government Amendment 8 on community energy. This is one more demonstration that campaigning works—but, boy, does it often take quite a long while. I really must commend Community Energy England, Green Alliance, and Peers for the Planet, which have all been pushing this issue for a very long time. I also commend your Lordships’ House collectively, because your Lordships may recall that, in the previous Government’s Energy Bill—now an Act—this was the last amendment standing, as we defended again and again the need to include community energy on the face of that Bill. Perhaps this is a demonstration to your Lordships’ House that it is a good idea to stand up for principles, because eventually you will get there, even if it takes some time.

To echo the remarks of the noble Baronesses, Lady Young and Lady McIntosh, yes, we would like to see the Government go further, both in the strategic priorities and in the sense that we need long-term, stable policies. I remember meeting so many community energy groups that were just about ready to go when the feed-in tariff was ripped out from underneath them and their projects collapsed after so much voluntary effort had been put in. The people doing this need the certainty to know that this will work and deliver, and that means long-term, stable policies.

Turning to Amendment 14 in the name of the noble Earl, Lord Russell, I can say that, based on the clarification that he has just provided, the Green group will be pleased to support his amendment, should he press it to the vote.

In the previous group, we were talking about Drax, which has benefited from £6 billion of subsidies since 2012, which the people and the planet cannot afford anymore. Imagine if that £6 billion had gone into home energy efficiency instead; there is good evidence to show that we would have needed so much less generation in the first place. The cleanest, greenest energy that you can possibly have is the energy that you do not need to use. There are not only the environmental benefits and the cost-of-living benefits, as huge as they are; there are also the public health benefits, since so many people live in unhealthy homes. Your Lordships’ House often talks about productivity and all the people of working age who are not in paid work. The quality of our homes is a big issue there, and that must not be forgotten as an added bonus, as well as the environmental and cost-of-living ones.

Great British Energy Bill

Baroness Young of Old Scone Excerpts

Report stage
Tuesday 11th February 2025 Lords Chamber

So that is why I wanted to rise today: to say, “Actually, I’m afraid the Government’s amendment to me is so weak as water that it is absolutely ridiculous. You could probably consider it to be one polluted by sewage on how useless it is”. I could use stronger language. I believe that the amendment put forward by my noble friend Lady McIntosh of Pickering would be much stronger and suitable to serve the purpose that is intended. Candidly, having put a lot of legislation through both Houses of Parliament in my previous roles, I assure noble Lords that people should not think that that will give any extra protection on environmental grounds, because it simply will not. All it will do is tick a box in an agenda item. “Have we considered this environment?” “Yes, we have.” “Does it make a difference?” “No.” “Does it make it worse?” “Maybe. Who cares? We just move on.” That is not the approach that we should be taking.

[Baroness Young of Old Scone (Lab)]

My Lords, I was not going to say anything at this point because it is getting late in the evening, but I was pretty staggered by that last intervention. I found it pretty rich, coming from a Minister who signally emasculated Defra and knocked the legs out from underneath it. The statement of environmental principles to which she referred was significantly reduced as a result of the work that happened around that period. So I actually think that we should thank the Minister and the noble Baroness, Lady Hayman, and—

[Baroness Coffey (Con)]

I am very happy to have that discussion outside, but I think it is a complete impugnment of all that we did achieve. I assure the noble Baroness that the strategy for our ground-breaking biodiversity plan is under way. I wish the Environment Secretary, Steve Reed, well in getting on with some of this stuff. It is ridiculous to try to suggest that the work the Conservative Government did in Montreal did nothing; it did a hell of a lot for the environment and I want the Labour Government to continue it and to succeed—we all do. That is why this amendment that the Government propose is not enough.

[Baroness Young of Old Scone (Lab)]

Strangely enough, I find myself agreeing with the noble Baroness’s sentiments on this amendment. We should thank the noble Baroness, Lady Hayman, and the Minister for reaching an agreement so that we can get something in the Bill. Amendment 40 would have been a lot stronger, but at least we have got something. We now need to ride heavy shotgun on what is contained in the framework to make sure that that happens.

I cannot take a lecture from the noble Baroness, because I know for a fact that Defra was severely prejudiced in its ability to do any of this work by the way that she operated when she was in that department.

[Lord Fuller (Con)]

My Lords, I will speak to my Amendment 51. Before I get into the substance of what I want to say, I want to say how proud I am that the Conservative Government passed the Environment Act that resulted in cleaner water, purer air, less waste and lower emissions. Only the Conservatives could have done that, and I know my noble friend Lady Coffey had a hand in that.

At an earlier stage of this Bill, I probed the Minister on the environment protections for tidal energy. Upon reflection, the amendment was too tightly drawn around tidal and insufficiently drawn for protections for other types, such as wave and barrage energy. Further, I do not think that sufficient attention was paid in my earlier remarks to coastal and estuarine environments, which are all part of the offshore scene. I have altered my approach to ensure that all marine proposals must consider the environmental impacts of their introduction. I welcome the Government’s late acceptance of some of these principles and their belated tabling of Amendment 38. On this side, we are grateful for it, but, as my noble friends have said, it does not go quite far enough.

My amendment would require the Secretary of State to assess the impact on the environment and animal welfare standards of the installation and generation of tidal, barrage and wave energy, together with its associated cabling. Amendment 38 talks generally about sustainability in its widest sense. My amendment seeks to define what sustainability means. It is not just carbon; it is about the wider impacts on flora and fauna. I noted and listened carefully to what the Minister said about the framework documents that have come forward, but they are in the future and we are in the now. It is certainty that we crave.

I will not detain your Lordships, because it is late, with my tale of my visit in November to the Saint-Malo tidal barrage—the world’s first, opened nearly 60 years ago. However, I want for a moment to consider the environmental costs of that valuable piece of infrastructure in France. There are lessons from history to be learned as we look forward to a post-carbon world. While saving the environment by reducing carbon emissions on the one hand, the French have damaged it on the other. My amendment seeks to direct Great British Energy to strike the appropriate balance between the desirability of reducing emissions and the essentiality of protecting flora and fauna in these places.

In commenting on the Saint-Malo barrage, Thomas Adcock, an associate professor in the department of engineering science at Oxford University, said there has been a “major environmental impact” on La Rance estuary as a result of that tidal barrage, and that

“this would make it very difficult to get permission to do such a barrage again”.

Researchers point to the adverse impacts on marine life due to the altering of sedimentation patterns, as well as the impact on oxygen and nutrient levels in the water. Sand-eels and plaice have disappeared, while silting has reduced the number and variation of other fauna. It is in the public interest that this is considered, so that mitigations can be put in place. My amendment seeks to ensure that, when the Government’s tilted sustainability balance is engaged, it must give sufficient weight to flora and fauna under the environmental pillar, not just pull the decarbonisation trump card out of the top pocket. This is why my amendment is needed and why it goes beyond Amendment 38.

I am not starry-eyed about the practicality of building big machines that can survive in the most hostile environments, pounded by seas and eaten by saltwater corrosion. I am involved in the liquid fertiliser business, so I know more than most how hard it is to engineer these things in tough, salt-aggressive places, but that does not mean that we should not try. It is hard to engineer reliability in some of these unforgiving places, so the installations will be larger and more environmentally intrusive, and require more maintenance than is needed on land.

That is why this amendment is serious. It will require GB Energy to take into account a number of factors and to continuously monitor these when assessing offshore energy proposals—for example, the cumulative impact of installations when considered alongside nearby projects; the transboundary impacts, when activities in other countries may be impacted, such as commercial fishing; any interrelationships where one receptor, such as noise, can have a knock-on impact on others to disturb species, and in particular subsea noise, which impacts on marine mammals; physical processes, which include changes to the sedimentary flow; and navigational risk assessments, because sometimes vessels can be deflected into the path of others.

Taken together, consideration of these factors would ensure that some of the most delicate marine and coastal habitats, such as that introduced by my noble friend Lady Coffey—the 321 square kilometre Cromer Shoal Chalk Beds marine conservation zone, one of 91 such zones established by the last Government—would be protected.

I am not against harnessing this most inexhaustible supply of offshore energy, including tidal. The energy is there, it is year-round, it is predictable and reliable, and it deserves to be won and should be won. It is just remarkable that the Secretary of State is not required to give the appropriate directions to GB Energy to balance not just the carbon environmental benefits but environmental safeguards in the widest sense.

This evening, we sat on the water Bill. That Bill is the consequence of not thinking ahead about what might happen when a public utility gets carried away. Let us put the protections in the Bill now to constrain Great British Energy, and require the Secretary of State to ensure that a private body established for a public purpose acts in the wider public interest, not its private self-interest, and sets an example to others.

In summary, I agree with the sentiment of Amendment 38, but it does not go far enough. We must not allow carbon alone to trump all other environmental considerations. I will listen carefully to the debate, but I feel that, because of the inadequacy of government Amendment 38, if adjustments are not made then I may seek to divide the House accordingly.

Great British Energy Bill

Baroness Young of Old Scone Excerpts

Committee stage
Wednesday 15th January 2025 Grand Committee

[Lord Hunt of Kings Heath (Lab)]

My Lords, as I said, I think we have acted properly with the impact assessment, which is based on the Bill. GBE has yet to commence its work. I have said that I will write to noble Lords detailing how we see GBE being held to account, in terms of its reporting and accountability, and I will add some more information about how that relates to the statement of strategic priorities in Clause 5.

[Baroness Young of Old Scone (Lab)]

I hope that in writing this note, which I welcome, the Minister will give us an account of how GBE will report on the strategic priorities set by the Government, and that they will include not just climate but environmental and biodiversity targets. They are the twin crises that GBE is helping to solve.

[Lord Roborough (Con)]

The noble Lord mentioned that the minimum requirement was the nine-month reporting window under the Companies Act. Could he give us an idea now of what he sees as a desirable reporting timeframe? If he would like to reflect, perhaps he could include those thoughts in his letter.