Claims Management Companies

Baroness Verma Excerpts

Tuesday 29th May 2012 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Verma]

My Lords, I begin by thanking the noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, for giving us this opportunity to debate such a topical subject. I thank the noble Lord and other noble Lords for their constructive contributions. I would also like to congratulate him on his dedication and commitment towards highlighting the serious issues that concern consumers. I am very pleased that the meeting that he had with my noble friend Lord McNally at the MoJ resulted in a satisfactory outcome. Of course, we are minded that the protection of consumers using the services of claims management companies is clearly an extremely important matter, as is the efficient handling of consumers’ claims. Much has been done to drive out bad practice in the claims industry, and we are committed to doing more. I am very pleased, therefore, to inform your Lordships’ House what action we are taking in this area and I hope to touch on some of the areas of concern that noble Lords have raised today.

It may be helpful if I first set out the existing conduct rules which claims companies must follow. The rules focus on consumer protection and require companies to give consumers clear, honest and comprehensive information about the options available for pursuing their claim, including self-help, and the associated costs and risks involved. The intention is that consumers should always be in a position to make an informed choice—an issue that was raised across the House. There must be no high-pressure selling, no hidden charges and no misleading marketing. All claims companies must have a complaints procedure to deal with any customer problems. Companies that breach these rules will face investigation and firm enforcement action, which can range from warnings to restrictions being added to their licence and ultimately suspension or cancellation of their licence.

Substantial progress has been made since the claims management regulation regime was introduced in 2007. Practices such as misleading advertising and marketing, and hidden costs, have been targeted and greatly reduced. Cold calling in person and unauthorised marketing in hospitals have been eliminated, unfair contract terms have been removed, and complaints handling has been improved. To date, the unit has removed the licences of more than 700 claims management companies, suspended or imposed restrictions on their licences and threatened many more with such action. As my noble friend Lord McNally stated in response to a recent Parliamentary Question from the noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, 260 claims management companies lost their licences between April 2011 and March 2012. There will be no let up by this Government in going forward. We realise and recognise that more must be done to tighten up practices. Therefore, we are developing proposals to amend the conduct rules for claims companies and a public consultation is planned for the summer. I hope that noble Lords will assist in that consultation.

The Government are committed to taking a robust approach to tackling those companies that appear to be involved in malpractice right across all sectors of the industry. As noble Lords have highlighted, the practices of some claims companies operating in the payment protection insurance claims sector have been a cause for concern. This sector continues to present challenges for us, and, of course, we recognise that there is much more to be done. However, we cannot ignore the progress that has been made by the Claims Management Regulation Unit in ensuring that claims companies remain compliant. The unit has established a specialist compliance team to focus on tackling the poor practices used by some companies when presenting claims for mis-sold PPI. Since its inception in November last year, the compliance team has already conducted more than 50 audits, issued seven warnings and taken other forms of enforcement action where problems have been found. This work continues and includes targeting those companies submitting claims where no PPI sale exists, those charging upfront fees and those operating call centres to ensure that sales calls are compliant.

The unit is working with the Financial Ombudsman Service, the Financial Services Authority, major banks and credit card providers to help identify non-compliant companies and improve the claims process for consumers. The unit is also encouraging the development of mechanisms for improving the banks’ relationships with compliant claims companies. The intention is to help streamline the PPI claims process for consumers who choose to use them and minimise the burden on the banks. Last year, the unit issued joint guidance with the Financial Services Authority and the Financial Ombudsman Service on best practice when handling claims for mis-sold PPI. The unit produced guidance for consumers, advising them to shop around for the best deal and never to pay an advance fee or agree a verbal contract without seeing the offer in writing first. The guidance also makes consumers aware that there are self-help alternatives to using a paid representative to make a PPI claim.

The Information Commissioner’s Office is aware of issues in relation to claims and unsolicited marketing and believes that the existing legislation and regulatory environment are adequate in seeking to protect individuals from all such kinds of marketing, not merely those related to claims services. However, I very much take on board the concerns that have been raised and I and my officials will take them back to the department. The Information Commissioner’s Office is responsible for enforcing the Privacy and Electronic Communications Regulations 2003, which protect consumers from unsolicited text messages and marketing calls. It has a significant suite of powers with which to investigate and take enforcement action where the regulations have been breached. These include the power to issue a monetary penalty of up to £500,000 and to require communications service providers to disclose the identity of third-party users of their networks. The Information Commissioner is putting more resources into tackling this problem and we are providing assistance as necessary. The Ministry of Justice’s Claims Management Regulation Unit has formed an effective working relationship with the Information Commissioner that enables a fruitful exchange of intelligence. Both regulators are now seeking to build on this by establishing a memorandum of understanding, which will set out a basis for sharing information and intelligence to help them carry out their regulatory functions. This should be finalised soon.

The Claims Management Regulation Unit is already investigating individual claims companies believed to be involved in commissioning and receiving the leads generated from text messages and automated calls. The main investigation challenge is identifying who is responsible for the texts and building up sufficient evidence of abuses to take enforcement action. Unsolicited texts and marketing calls can be made by a range of companies, as my noble friend Lady Scott highlighted, some of which are based overseas. These include lead generation companies, data companies and illegitimate companies. The Information Commissioner and the Claims Management Regulation Unit are members of a cross-regulator and industry working group established to pool resources, share intelligence and mount a more effective campaign of joined-up action to try to eradicate unsolicited text messages and automated calls. Other members of the working group include Ofcom, the Office of Fair Trading, the Direct Marketing Association and the mobile marketing industry, including network operators.

I hope noble Lords are reassured that there already exists a robust regulatory environment to deal with this problem. However, I acknowledge their concerns about the fees charged by claims management companies. Transparency is a key requirement of the conduct rules which all claims companies are required to follow. Their fee structure should be clear, transparent, fair and not misleading. Reasonable inquiries should be made as to whether prospective clients have alternative means for pursuing a claim and claims should be pursued only where it is in the interests of the client to do so. While most claims management companies do not charge upfront fees, those that do must provide the key facts in writing.

In conclusion, I have outlined some of the main actions we have taken and our commitments going forward to driving out bad practice across the claims industry. I hope these reflect the Government’s determination to ensure that the regulatory burden placed on claims management companies continues to be effective in protecting consumers. My noble friend Lady Scott asked about trade bodies representing claims companies. The Claims Management Regulation Unit in the MoJ has considerable contact with trade bodies representing claims companies. We will continue to work closely with them to raise standards. The noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, referred to training. I will take back that interesting thought because there is merit in seeing consistency across the sector. My noble friend asked about further discussions with the MoJ. I am very happy to take that back to the MoJ to see whether a meeting can be set up with noble Lords who are interested in this issue.

As the challenges get harder, the importance of effective joined-up approaches and enforcement operations cannot be stressed enough to ensure that not only are more claims management companies operating in the consumers’ interest, but that all others involved in the claims chain are too. If I have missed any questions that were asked by noble Lords, I will be happy to write to them. I would like to put on record that we wish the noble Lord, Lord Young, a speedy recovery and very much hope that he is not bombarded with unsolicited messages.

Minority Ethnic and Religious Communities: Cultural and Economic Contribution

Baroness Verma Excerpts

Thursday 24th May 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Paul]

My Lords, I congratulate my noble friend Lord Bilimoria on initiating this timely debate, and his excellent speech.

The Zoroastrian community has always been a minority community in whatever country it has existed. But by its conduct and its contribution, it has without exception been a model of good citizenship, holding its members to the highest standards of ethical behaviour. At a time when grievances are often provoked and expressed by violence, this approach has been a lesson for us all. As Mahatma Gandhi said:

“An eye for an eye will make the whole world blind”.

I now move to the larger implications of the noble Lord’s Motion: the contribution made by minority ethnic and religious communities to the United Kingdom. Too often, minorities are viewed by significant parts of the majority as takers and not givers. Of course, this is palpably wrong, as is evident from the minority involvement in every field of endeavour: from public life to commercial enterprise, from the arts to sport, from education to government services. Minority involvement is growing and is now irreversible.

I do not need to remind your Lordships that this has been somewhat slow in coming, not because minorities were reluctant or unqualified but because barriers were placed in their way. Recent times have seen these formal and informal obstructions being dismantled. We must continue these efforts and guard against any reversal and, in doing so, open up avenues of advancement to higher positions, a situation in which recent studies have shown there is considerable inadequacy.

People are not born with discrimination in their blood. They are socialised into it, as I know well. I visit London Zoo as often I can because it is partly a memorial to my infant daughter. I well recall how, 46 years ago, her last tragic months were brightened by regular visits there and by being with other children of all communities. When London Zoo was in danger of closure in the 1990s, I was delighted to step in and help. My delight today is to see how children of various ethnic communities mingle freely and enjoy companionship without any regard to racial, religious or other backgrounds. In this camaraderie, small children have many lessons for their parents.

I have been, and am, chancellor of two British universities: the University of Wolverhampton and the University of Westminster. Both have overseas branches and consequently a sizeable student body representing a number of nationalities. It must be remembered that when these overseas students return to their countries, they continue to make a great contribution as ambassadors for Britain.

The noble Lord, Lord Bilimoria, succeeded me as chancellor of the University of West London. He will confirm that a majority of younger students is far less concerned with ethnic and religious differences than with joint activities. These are the very people who, as they grow into full adulthood, can harbour prejudices that are of much concern in this country. Responsibility for enlightenment cannot be left to the individuals alone. That is why I urge the Government to make every effort to encourage the expansion of educational curricula to include more information and analysis of minority contributions.

These are difficult days in community relations, and economic distress often makes them more difficult as retrenchment takes place that often affects minority communities first. However, whatever areas are drawn down, that should not include cuts in the minority-related programmes. Small economic gains must never be at the expense of the social fabric of the nation.

In common with the majority of Members of this House, I have over the years been pleased to serve on a number of charitable, government and non-government bodies, including the NSPCC, the Prince’s Trust, the RNIB, the Royal Albert Hall and London 2012. I chaired the Indo-British Round Table—

[Baroness Verma]

My Lords, could the noble Lord conclude? Thank you.

Food Security Policy

Baroness Verma Excerpts

Thursday 24th May 2012 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer]

My Lords, I declare an interest in my family vineyard and farm, Vignobles Temperley, and family cider business. I was absolutely delighted to win this topic in the balloted debate, but I am even happier to see such an array of experts who will contribute. Noble Lords know that even in the UK and Europe we cannot afford to be complacent about food security. We are the lucky post-war generation who, by and large, have not seen shortages. We have only recently begun to understand the importance of the concept of global food security rather than seeing it as an issue only when there is a regional famine or shortage far from these shores.

One of the problems has been that political attention has not really focused on food production or nutritious consumption for a long time. We did not even get government time to debate the Chief Scientific Adviser’s immensely important report The Future of Food and Farming but, just like buses, you wait for ever and then they all come at once. The G8 had food security high on its agenda last weekend. This week, the Environmental Audit Committee in the Commons published its excellent report Sustainable Food and in this House this subject for debate wins the ballot. At least we are focusing attention.

In March this year, the UN high-level task force on food security made the point that there is no one set of policies to tackle food security that is globally applicable, but it identified some key pointers and the crucial importance of sustained political commitment. Historically in the UK, political attention has focused on food production when there has been a crisis or a scare such as salmonella in eggs or a disease such as foot and mouth or BSE. For a moment, food and food issues are a political hot topic, and then attention wanders away again to the more seductive stage of foreign affairs or the Olympics, but circuses would lose their charm without bread. I am pleased that the noble Lord, Lord Curry, is going to speak this afternoon because his commission did a lot to bring this to national attention.

In nations where many people live a precarious existence, a food price increase or a shortage can cause the sort of riots that we saw in dozens of countries in 2008 and that were repeated to some extent during last year’s price spike. Even in rich and middle-income nations, we must assume that things are not always going to be as comfortable and easy as they have been over past decades. The expertise in today’s list of speakers allows me not to attempt to address why and how climate change, water shortages, storage problems and animal diseases are undermining food security.

The only international issue I will touch on is the relatively new phenomenon of some richer nations and multinationals buying up vast tracts of land, especially in Africa: so-called recolonisation or land grabbing. At its worst, land grabbing dispossesses whole villages from their subsidence existence against their will. There is an illusion that big international deals bring investment and new technology to a region, benefiting local people, but in fact that ideal is rarely achieved. More often, local communities are dispossessed of their lands and return, if at all, only as minimally paid workers and profits are exported. Fred Pearce in his recent book, The Land Grabbers, gives many examples from different continents of the huge downsides to the practice. I am sure many of your Lordships have seen examples on your travels. I certainly have, notably in Ethiopia. The UN has just adopted historic land grab guidelines for rich countries buying land in developing nations. Guidelines are better than nothing, but there is something immoral about dispossessing the already very poor to feed the well off better or to provide biofuel for their motorcars. I hope the UK Government will support this UN initiative and ensure that UK-listed companies do not ignore the UN guidelines.

I am going limit the rest my contribution to Britain. This week, the NFU launched the campaign “Farming Delivers for Britain” which demonstrates that our agriculture is a bright spot among the austerity gloom. That is good news indeed, but how well are we caring for the basics that enable that agriculture and make us so well placed to feed ourselves and to maintain healthy exports not just of food but also of knowledge? Knowledge and expertise are probably our most useful contribution to global food security.

I am going to focus on just a few of the essential ingredients of a healthy UK production and consumption food policy and on perhaps the most fundamental thing of all, which is soil. A properly managed soil can do so many different things. It stores carbon, retains water, maintains a vibrant ecosystem, reduces pollutant run-off and cuts greenhouse gas emissions, and also produces healthy, nutritious crops. However, I am sure that your Lordships have often seen water flooding off the fields during heavy rain, washing down the drains into streams and filling rivers. It is even more terrifying when you fly, look down at rivers and see that they are dark brown after heavy rains. That is the soil washing into the oceans. We have not looked after our soils. They are literally disappearing through erosion, including wind erosion. The erosion rate is about five times faster than the formation rate. We are also losing prime soils to development. We are just tarmacking them over. We cannot afford that rate of loss and, if we have not lost it, soil fertility itself has been diminished by farming practices over decades. The Food Ethics Council recently produced an excellent collection of research called Soil: A Fragile Foundation. It highlights the national lack of targets and indicators of a healthy soil. I wonder whether the Minister’s department is tackling that now.

Back in 2006, there was an EU soil thematic strategy which would have helped with some of this but the then UK Government blocked its implementation, thereby setting us back many years. Now I assume that we are supporting the EU soils framework directive wholeheartedly. Then there is the farm regulation review, which suggested a duty of care for soils. Can the Minister say whether Defra is considering that? How does practical support for farming practices—increased soil and health structure—fit into the CAP reform proposals?

Secondly, we should play to our strengths. In the UK, we have some of the best grass-growing conditions in the whole world and a wonderful range of livestock breeds, both old, traditional breeds and modern breeds. Their genetic strengths are in world-wide demand. I hope that Defra’s policy will be to support and strengthen this sector rather than to encourage the development of a livestock sector that will rely on vast quantities of imported soya or require the UK to devote considerable acreage to protein production for cattle lots and dairy production, US-style. How is Defra’s assessment of the intensive dairy proposals going? What work is Defra doing on carbon footprinting the different production methods?

On insects, they have an up side and a down side. The down side is, of course, that they can be such tremendous pests. Last year, a letter in the Times from the UK’s leading entomologists highlighted the fact that there were actually only 10 professors of entomology left in the UK. It is such a crucial area of study—the huge impact of insects on food production and storage. I ask the Minister whether that position has improved.

While I am on the subject of insects, I turn to bees. I welcome Defra’s healthy bee action plan, which is a great step forward. It addresses the health of the honey bee, but the honey bee pollinates only about 15% of our crops and wild flowers that are insect-pollinated. The other 85% are pollinated by the other 265 species of bee and pollinators, which are also suffering severe declines of about half their numbers. Can Defra produce similar plans and guidance to help to ensure that the decline of the wild bee population is halted and reversed?

Food security is all about resilience and diversity. We must value our seed heritage and our different animal breeds. I congratulate Garden Organic on its heritage seed library collection and, indeed, Kew on its work. These and other organisations are guarding and developing for future generations—and, in the case of Garden Organic, for the public to use—a large number of unusual and heirloom varieties.

The hot topic of this afternoon may well be biotechnology. I am looking forward to the contributions on that. Public confidence in GM was adversely affected right at the beginning by the Monsanto approach which tried to prevent farmers saving seed. The public came to understand that it was just about the bottom line and not the public good. That approach bred distrust and suspicion. I hope that we can move away from that first generation of GM. I do not that think GM is the answer to food security issues, but nor should we seek to halt scientific exploration and trials. There are many interesting things to explore. Among the less controversial but very interesting advances of biological sciences that are being progressed is accelerated selective breeding, which deals with same-species genetic changes rather than cross-species manipulation. I am anxious that we not be diverted by huge EU battles over GM. It has already sucked so much political capital, energy and investment, leaving fundamental deficiencies in the rest of the scientific effort. Can the Minister tell us the latest UK position on EU negotiations over GM?

We have another round of CAP reform coming up. We must use this round to make sure that it offers farmers support that is all about farming for the future as well as for today. One of the things that worries me most about the future is the lack of young entrepreneurial people choosing to go into farming and food production. On this, I miss my late noble friend Lord Livsey, who often decried in this House the contraction of our agricultural college places. I hope that that decline has halted or will be put into reverse.

There are lots of other forms of support for farmers, such as co-operatives—buying co-ops, selling co-ops, machinery co-ops—which other countries practise far more than we do. There is a great strength of advice for the struggling lone farmer from that sort of circle. I hope that Defra plans to strengthen co-operation between farmers. There have been some interesting examples in various parts of the country, including Somerset. It is work that needs more impetus.

I am sure that other speakers will highlight other examples and the very interesting report, Innovation in EU Agriculture, from Sub-Committee D of the EU Committee. I am pleased that members of that sub-committee are speaking this afternoon. The report covered developments such as precision agriculture, with precise dosages and timing of fertilisers, and better land practice. I will not have time to talk about agro-forestry or perennial crops, or low-till and no-till regimes, but all these things offer us a tremendous amount for the future. It is actually an exciting time in agriculture.

Amartya Sen said that,

“there is no such thing as an apolitical food problem”.

We have many of the tools that could enable us to solve the issue of precarious food security. We can do it, but we need to keep the political attention firmly focused on food and food security. I beg to move.

[Baroness Verma]

My Lords, I remind noble Lords that this is a time-limited debate. When the clock shows “6”, you are in your seventh minute.

Crime: Domestic Violence

Baroness Verma Excerpts

Thursday 8th March 2012 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Verma]

My Lords, because the Government take domestic violence so seriously, we have ring-fenced nearly £40 million of stable funding for specialist local domestic and sexual violence support services until 2015. Accommodation is the foundation to ensuring that victims are afforded safety and security, which is why homelessness legislation in England provides one of the strongest safety nets in the world for families with children and vulnerable people who become homeless through no fault of their own.

We are also piloting domestic violence protection orders in three police force areas by which the police and magistrates can put into place protection for the victim so that they need not flee their own property, and the perpetrator is prevented from returning to the residence and from having contact with the victim for up to 28 days.

[Baroness Gould of Potternewton]

I thank the Minister for that reply and for any action that the Government are taking to protect women suffering from domestic violence. In spite of her comments, will she justify why up and down the country refuges are closing down or facing cuts? On a typical day, Women’s Aid is turning away about 230 women because it does not have the funding to accommodate them. Women are literally having to find places to sleep outside—such as in the Occupy camps, hospitals or night buses, and I have even heard of a case of a woman sleeping in an internet cafe—or are having to return to an abusive partner. Can the Minister indicate what action the Government propose to take to ensure that women are not subject to such a position and do not have to return necessarily to an abusive home rather than find a place of safety? How will places of safety be found?

[Baroness Verma]

My Lords, I fully understand the noble Baroness’s concerns but I reiterate that we are committed to ensuring that victims have a place to go if they are in need of such a place, which is why we are conducting a pilot in three police areas. I should also like to say to the noble Baroness and to noble Lords that we are in difficult circumstances. We have to deal with that alongside funding for all sorts of organisations. We have made this an issue that is dealt with locally. We have ensured that £6.5 billion is in place to support the Supporting People programme. At any one time, that programme looks after 1 million people. We have increased spending on housing-related support for victims of domestic violence from £62 million in 2007-08 to £71 million this year. A lot is going on, but we are in difficult times and we have economic constraints.

[Baroness Seccombe]

My Lords, does my noble friend agree that some of these victims of domestic violence are men? Does she feel that on this special day we might spare a thought for and celebrate the men in our lives?

[Noble Lords]

Hear, hear!

[Baroness Verma]

I think that my noble friend has had her question answered. On a more serious note, any victim will be supported by this Government. Victim support will always be gender neutral. We are seeing rising numbers of men being violently abused, so I agree completely with the sentiment expressed by my noble friend. This is a gender-neutral issue that we need to take in the round.

[The Earl of Listowel]

My Lords, while recognising the devolution to local areas, can the Minister say a little about specialist services to provide access to adult, child and adolescent mental health services in situ in refuges? Are there any special arrangements for those parents and their children?

[Baroness Verma]

The noble Earl has raised another serious issue and of course we will find a prevalence of mental health issues in these cases. I very much take on board what the noble Earl has said, but I would rather write to him specifically about the work that is being done because this is a broad question that needs to be answered in detail.

[Baroness Royall of Blaisdon]

My Lords, I accept entirely that the Government have ring-fenced some money for dealing with the problems faced by the victims of domestic violence. However, as my noble friend Lady Gould said, refuges up and down the country are either closing or are under threat of closure, including in the Forest of Dean. Can the noble Baroness tell me whether the Government expect local authorities to undertake impact assessments before refuges are closed to see what the impact will be on vulnerable women who will be left homeless or without a place to stay when they close?

[Baroness Verma]

My Lords, I will repeat myself and say that we have difficulties with finances simply because there is no money to spare, as the noble Baroness will be aware. However, the homelessness strategy will not see people who require support and housing being left without refuge. There is a close relationship between what we are doing nationally and the work that we are making sure local authorities do through the funding that we have secured with them. Of course, local authorities will make decisions about need in their areas, and I would say to the noble Baroness that authorities have a duty to ensure that any victims of any form of violence are supported in securing refuge.

[Baroness Hamwee]

My Lords, I welcome the financial contribution that this and the last Government have made to the national domestic violence helpline, but will my noble friend take away from the exchanges today the message that it is direct provision that is so important? Things such as telephone advice are helpful, but they cannot carry out the whole job.

[Baroness Verma]

My noble friend makes an important point, but she will also understand that these are difficult times.

Universities: European Languages

Baroness Verma Excerpts

Tuesday 6th March 2012 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Coussins]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what is their response to the 2012 university applications figures from the Universities and Colleges Admissions Service (UCAS) showing that applications for courses in European languages are down by 11.2 per cent and non-European languages by 21.5 per cent compared to the previous year.

[Baroness Verma]

My Lords, 2011 was a record year in the overall number of people applying for higher education places. However, we cannot make a direct comparison as a reduction this year could be considered inevitable, with applications for language courses coming from a reducing population of 18 year-olds. We estimate that there will still be many more applications for higher education language courses than places available. The previous Government marginalised languages in schools. This Government are stimulating language study, and an increasing number of young people are now studying languages.

[Baroness Coussins]

My Lords, does the Minister accept that one very likely reason for the decline in numbers is the additional cost of a four-year degree that includes a year abroad, especially if that year is outside Europe and therefore does not qualify for any help under the ERASMUS scheme? What are the Government going to do to reduce financial disincentives for people considering a four-year degree course, particularly when employers are saying how much they value the language and other skills that are acquired during the year abroad?

[Baroness Verma]

My Lords, the noble Baroness has greater expertise in this area than I do, but I reassure her that the ERASMUS fee waiver programme will continue until 2014 and Ministers are considering the report by Professor Riordan on how we are going to fund after 2014. However, students will continue to enjoy the ERASMUS fee waiver for studying outside Great Britain in European countries. For study abroad in non-European countries, students get a percentage of fee waivers from their higher education institutions, and that is often up to the higher education institutions themselves. They recognise the value of it and therefore are more inclined to work with students to see what they can do to ensure that those students are able to take the benefit of that one year abroad.

[Lord Anderson of Swansea]

My Lords, the Minister will be aware that last year, of the 306 graduate entrants into European Union institutions, only seven were from the UK. Does she agree that this must be due in part to the decline in language teaching? Does she further agree that it cannot be in our national interest that there is such a decline and that the future influence of this country in European Union institutions is likely to decline as a result of this?

[Baroness Verma]

That is why the Government have prioritised language courses at university and in schools. The noble Lord will be aware that we have placed this, with HEFCE funding, under the vulnerable subjects in order that it will get the full grant. My right honourable friend Michael Gove has taken the issue very seriously. He has made sure that language teaching is part of the English baccalaureate and that young children are exposed to the joy of learning a language. As those of us with business backgrounds know, the importance of trading globally will be on the basis that we have the experience and knowledge of languages.

[The Lord Bishop of Chichester]

My Lords, can the Minister confirm that Her Majesty's Government are concerned about the cultural as well as the economic disadvantage our country is likely to suffer as a result of the decline in language skills? As the UCAS statistics indicate a disproportionate fall in the number of applicants from people from deprived areas, what are Her Majesty's Government doing or going to do in order to minimise the impact of tuition fees and a fear of considerable debt, specifically on children from those areas?

[Baroness Verma]

My Lords, the right reverend Prelate is absolutely right in introducing the value of a cultural understanding through language learning. The Government agree with that. As he will know, we have also made sure that, through our own reforms of the fee system, more people from disadvantaged backgrounds will be able to come into higher education simply because they will not be expected to put any moneys in fees up front. We are very much focused on widening participation. I for one am very keen to see children from poorer backgrounds and BME communities take that step forward into higher education.

[Baroness Brinton]

My Lords, do the Government still support the principle of prioritising strategic, important and vulnerable subjects such as STEM and modern languages? What highly specific advice will be given to schools and universities to prioritise modern languages, given their importance in our economy today?

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Verma]

My noble friend is absolutely right. She will be reassured to know that we have put £14 million on one side to ensure that the vulnerable subjects, such as science, technology, engineering and languages, get fully funded support. We recognise that if we are to be a good globally viable trading nation we will have to have all these skills plus more to be able to do that. Today, Brazil is a prime example of an economy that has gone forward. We must learn from the lessons around us so that we do not lag behind.

[Lord Quirk]

My Lords, can the Minister explain why it is that in the bulk of schools the popularity and take-up of foreign languages is very bad but that in private schools and grammar schools it remains relatively buoyant? Is there a lesson here in some way for the Government?

[Baroness Verma]

My Lords, the only lesson I should like to reassure the noble Lord on is that my right honourable friend recognises that language learning in primary schools across our country has declined over the years and that we need to make sure that every child has the access and opportunity to learn a language that gives them the benefit and the advantage of being able to function economically, culturally and happily in the world around them.

Universities: Anti-Semitism

Baroness Verma Excerpts

Tuesday 6th March 2012 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Deech]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they will clarify the laws applying to universities and student unions when an anti-Semitic incident has taken place on campus.

[Baroness Verma]

My Lords, the law is clear: there is absolutely no place in our universities for racism, including anti-Semitism. As independent bodies, universities and student unions are responsible for undertaking their own legal obligations. They have the tools to tackle anti-Semitism. They have access to a very strong legislative framework and practical guidance to provide protection and deal with any anti-Semitic incident. We expect universities to act swiftly to investigate and address any anti-Semitic incidents reported to them. We have seen a fall in the number of incidents in higher education, from 44 in 2010 to 27 in 2011, according the Community Security Trust, but I accept that that is still too many and we must not be complacent in our resolve.

[Baroness Deech]

I thank the Minister for her Answer. However, I wonder if she is aware of just how often these anti-Semitic incidents occur, reported or not. Sometimes it is other students’ Nazi-themed activities, coupled with assaults, and sometimes it is hate speakers who are invited on to campuses which indeed they target. Recent events include speakers who blame 9/11 on Israel or who equate all Jews with Nazis, and worse. Universities tend to take refuge behind the doctrine of freedom of speech and do very little. They do not seem to realise the limits of freedom of speech as constrained by recent legislation largely from the previous Labour Government. The Public Order Act—

[Baroness Deech]

Will the Minister ensure that universities bring up to date their codes of practice on visiting speakers to take account of legislation and make sure that they apply to student unions as well?

[Baroness Verma]

My Lords, the Education (No. 2) Act 1986 requires university governing bodies to ensure as far as possible and practicable that freedom of speech within the law is secured for members, students, employees and visiting speakers. Institutions have to issue and keep updated a code of practice on the organisation of meetings and other activities taking place on their premises. These codes often include the right to refuse permission for an event. However, universities have to balance freedom of speech with their legal obligations, for instance in the Equality Act 2010. Only institutions themselves can make decisions about speakers. No other body could make judgments about each and every case. They are subject to the courts in this, as with other laws. The 1986 Act does not apply directly to student unions but indirectly through the universities’ codes of practice.

[Lord Boswell of Aynho]

My Lords—

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Janner of Braunstone]

My Lords, the Minister will be aware that last year on United Kingdom campuses there were 27 reports of anti-Semitic incidents and attacks on students and academics. Does she agree that the time must now have come for the Government to create and require a national approach for all universities to deal with anti-Semitic and all other racist attacks?

[Baroness Verma]

My Lords, I can only repeat that the Government cannot tell universities and higher education institutions who they can or cannot invite. However, universities have to follow very strict codes of practice. We are always working with universities, and wherever there are incidents and we hear of them we try to ensure that universities have the tools in place to counter those sorts of vicious speakers and their contributions.

[Lord Boswell of Aynho]

My Lords, given that the Minister has already confirmed that because universities and colleges are in receipt of very substantial amounts of public funds, they are bound by the public sector equality duty—which is an important factor that they should bear in mind and take seriously—will she also, on the positive side, celebrate the work of the Equality Challenge Unit and of others who are working positively towards ensuring that universities are, as they always should be, places of enlightenment, and not an opportunity for the expression of prejudice?

[Baroness Verma]

I absolutely agree with my noble friend. We see universities as places not only of learning but of great understanding. All the organisations that my noble friend mentioned are at the heart of those tasks of moving forward. However, we take the concerns very seriously and we understand why the noble Baroness has posed this Question and the noble Lord, Lord Janner, has raised it. We are working to ensure that all universities stand up for any students who feel under threat, regardless of their race, religion or background.

[Lord Campbell-Savours]

My Lords, is it not important that we draw a very clear distinction between the actions of anti-Semites and the actions of those who feel passionately about the actions of the state of Israel in the West Bank of the Jordan and in the Gaza Strip?

[Baroness Verma]

My Lords, I do not want to enter into another debate, and that is a separate debate although it is one that we must not shy away from. At the same time, we do not want to lose the greatness of our universities, which allow students to hear contributions that are often very vile but then also allow them to make a judgment as to their response.

[Lord Palmer of Childs Hill]

My Lords, my noble friend the Minister drew attention to the statistics up to 2010. Based on the October 2011 report from the National Jewish Student Survey, 21 per cent of Jewish students felt very worried about anti-Semitism at university; 38 per cent of Jewish students felt worried about anti-Israel sentiment at university; and, more worryingly, 42 per cent of Jewish students had witnessed or been subjected to anti-Semitism in the seven months up to the survey. Will my noble friend the Minister confirm that Her Majesty’s Government consider these figures to be a real cause for concern, and indicate what steps they will take to address this issue? Can the Minister outline the approach that the Government are taking to work with universities, the academic community and the Jewish community to solve what is a real problem, despite what other Members of this noble House have said?

[Baroness Verma]

My Lords, I am sure that my colleagues in the Box have taken note of my noble friend’s concerns and the figures that he has raised today. The Government take all these issues very seriously and I reassure the House that wherever we find that we can intervene, we surely do.

International Women’s Day

Baroness Verma Excerpts

Thursday 1st March 2012 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Baroness Verma]

That this House takes note of International Women’s Day on 8 March and the contribution of women to economic growth.

[Baroness Verma]

My Lords, it is a great privilege to open this debate, and as always your Lordships’ House has shown the great importance that it attaches to celebrating International Women’s Day by the number of speakers who have signed up to contribute to this debate. Women matter, and they should matter, to every Government, every economy and every family. Like so many of your Lordships, I have been involved in issues around girls and women for as far back as I can remember. This annual debate generates huge global interest and I should like to thank in advance all noble Lords who will speak today. Great Britain has been at the heart of global change for women and girls, and we must remain eternally grateful to women such as Emmeline Pankhurst, whose vision was one of women as equals, women having power and influence over the direction of their lives.

The theme today is the “contribution of women to economic growth”, so let me start by saying that we have made progress. Many will argue that there has not been enough progress, and that of course is true. However, while we continue to challenge and break down those barriers, we must also celebrate the achievements and the progress that has been made and illustrate what it is possible to achieve. This is a vision that is shared by all political parties in the UK, and we have much to thank the previous Government for. It is therefore right that we pay tribute to their ensuring that issues on gender remained high in their political programmes.

We must thank particularly the women in the Labour Party who have led from the front on issues such as early years childcare and the new types of apprenticeships which give girls and women access to training in traditionally male-only sectors. They looked at flexible working and maternity and paternity leave, and they paved the way on the work to end violence against women and girls. I am pleased that so many of those senior women are here today.

This Government are working hard on improving on those initiatives and introducing many more. The Prime Minister recognises how important it is that we build a society—our country—on the principles of fairness, accessibility and equality of opportunity. However, we also know that we have to take difficult decisions in difficult economic circumstances and therefore need to respond to restoring the economy. That is where we believe that women will have a huge role in contributing—a role which will define not just progress but the success of a changing economy.

No country can afford to ignore half of its talent and human potential. For example, if women’s entrepreneurship in the UK matched that of the USA, we would have an extra 600,000 women-owned businesses here that would add £42 billion to the UK economy. I come from a small and medium-sized business background. I set up my first business at the age of 19 and know the difficulties that I faced then, 33 years ago. Sadly, many of those difficulties have not gone away. I am therefore pleased that the Business Secretary’s Entrepreneurs’ Forum includes 13 women members among its 20 members. My right honourable friend the Home Secretary has also ensured that we have 5,000 women business mentors to assist women who want to start up a business or take their businesses to the next level. It is crucial that networks and mentoring become as embedded in how women approach business as they have been for men.

The Government are also establishing a Women’s Business Council. Senior business leaders will advise the Government on how to improve the business environment for women. We are providing up to £2 million over the next three years to support women setting up or expanding businesses in rural areas. However, as not all women want to set up an enterprise, we also need to deliver a work programme that helps unemployed women to develop skills and gain relevant qualifications. That could be worth up to £20 billion each year to our economy.

What we are learning from around the world is that no tool is more effective for economic advancement than the empowerment of women. That is why it is crucial that career choices in schools are improved so that girls are aware of the full opportunities available to them. It is great to see that six in 10 higher-level apprentices in the UK are now female. Arguably, one of the greatest transformations to have occurred in the English higher education system is the increased participation of women. As someone who was not allowed to go to university for cultural reasons, I was—and remain—determined that those choices should always be available to anyone with the competence for higher education.

I turn now to the sensitive subject of pay. The Government are determined to see greater transparency in pay so that we can overcome the continuing issues on the gender pay gap. In September 2010 we launched a new voluntary framework for gender pay reporting with BT, Tesco, Eversheds and the CBI. The “Think, Act, Report” framework asks private and voluntary sector employers to help tackle the pay gap through greater transparency on pay and other issues. We are also working very closely with business not only on extending the right to request flexible working to all employees but to ensure a minimisation of any administrative costs to business. Our impact assessments calculate that this will produce a net benefit of over £222 million over 10 years.

We know that women, given the opportunity, contribute very positively at the top levels of business. We are therefore extremely grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Davies of Abersoch—from whom we all look forward to hearing later in the debate—for his work on getting more women on to boards. Through his work with business we have seen within a relatively short time a positive shift in the right direction, with women making up nearly 15 per cent of FTSE directors, from 12 per cent previously. Over a quarter of all board appointments are now female, and 90 companies in the FTSE 100 have both genders on their boards. This is a move in the right direction. However, we want more women to break through the glass ceiling and reach the top of our biggest companies.

Nevertheless, we cannot negate issues that still need to be urgently addressed, and I turn first to the issues of violence against women and girls. The Government are very committed to eradicating all forms of abuse and violent behaviour. We know that that will not be easy but we also know that we must do all that we can to achieve this goal. On 25 November 2010 we published our Call to End Violence Against Women and Girls action plan, which set out our vision over the spending review period. A detailed range of supporting actions was also published last year, including a full response to the review of the noble Baroness, Lady Stern, of the way in which rape complaints were handled.

We have protected Home Office funding of over £28 million for specialist services until 2015. In addition, the Ministry of Justice has committed to £3.5 million each year for three years for rape crisis centres. We will also maintain levels of funding to support specified national functions; for example, £900,000 per year, over four years, to support national help lines.

An indicative figure for the minimum and overlapping cost of violence against women and girls in the UK is estimated to be around £36.7 billion per year. Sadly, more and more incidents among teenagers also seem to be occurring. We therefore relaunched the teenage relationship abuse campaign last September. To date, we have had 170,000 visits to the website and a high level of participation in the online discussion forum. We have also provided £1.2 million to be used to form a new network of support for young victims of rape, sexual abuse and exploitation, including by gangs. However, we believe that there is still an under reporting of sexual crime. We are working closely with police, the CPS and other agencies to ensure that victims feel they are fully supported when they come forward.

I know that a number of noble Lords were concerned about the issue of stalking. This deplorable invasion, through horribly sinister means, often has far-reaching consequences on how people manage their everyday lives. The Government’s consultation on stalking, launched last October, closed on 5 February. We are currently considering the responses to the consultation and will respond very soon.

I have not touched on a number of areas in my opening remarks but in my closing speech I shall talk about the work that we are doing internationally and, of course, respond to points that noble Lords raise in the debate.

The Government are strongly committed to ensuring that all departments take into account the impact that their policies will have on women, and through inter-ministerial meetings departments we are working actively for positive outcomes. As Anita Roddick, founder of the Body Shop, famously stated:

“If you do things well, do them better. Be daring, be first, be different, be just”.

The UK, for me, is all those things and more—and that is why we so often lead in the world on these debates. I beg to move.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Verma]

My Lords, it has been a privilege to sit and listen to a debate that has encapsulated a huge range of topics and themes. Each contribution has provided the House with the richness, expertise, passion, compassion and humility for which your Lordships’ House is so proudly known. The debate marked the 101st International Women’s Day and I join my noble friend Lady Seccombe in celebrating safer motherhood.

Before I respond to the many questions and points raised by noble Lords, I will speak about how the Government are supporting women in developing countries with economic progress, through our DfID programmes and our support of the new UN Women agency. On taking office as Secretary of State for International Development, my right honourable friend Andrew Mitchell made it a priority to put girls and women at the heart of DfID programmes. Through both bilateral and multilateral reviews, he identified programmes that delivered and also those that failed to produce positive outcomes.

DfID’s strategic vision for women and girls is guided by four pillars for effective action. Delaying pregnancies among females in developing countries—as many have spoken of today—and encouraging greater participation in education and employment enables women and girls to have better health outcomes for themselves and for their children. Evidence has shown that improving access to economic assets for women could see increases in output of between 2.5 per cent and 4 per cent. Increasing women’s control over household income has a more positive impact on children as mothers tend to invest back more into their households and in the welfare of their children. Providing women with the means, through microfinance or tangible assistance such as seeds or livestock, has seen economic growth in developing countries, adding to women’s ability to harness change and transform their communities.

We know that women make up 51 per cent of the world’s population and that they produce 60 per cent to 80 per cent of the world’s agricultural goods. However, they own less than 5 per cent of the world’s titled land. The Government, through DfID, have set ambitious targets to help 18 million women to access financial services and 4.5 million women to strengthen their property rights by 2014. Economic empowerment increases people’s access to and control over economic resources, financial services, property and other assets.

DfID’s rationale for focusing on economic development of women and girls was reinforced by the 2012 World Development Report on Gender Equality and Development, which highlighted the importance of closing earnings and productivity gaps and improving access to productive resources such as water, electricity and childcare. DfID currently has over 20 programmes in 15 countries, delivering direct assets to women and girls across Asia and Africa, but we recognise that just transferring economic assets is not enough. We need to help change discriminatory social norms and laws.

Whether it is in developing countries or here in the UK, changing attitudes, mindsets and culture takes a long time, as many of us are so aware, as we continue in our sophisticated democracy to struggle with many of the issues that we see widely rampant across the globe. Noble Lords have mentioned violence against women, forced marriages, “honour”-based crime, female genital mutilation and human trafficking, alongside parity in pay and representation in both civic and political life. That is why these debates are so important.

The Government strongly supported the establishment of UN Women, which was formally launched in February last year; I had the privilege of attending that launch. It has a strong programme to support action to increase women’s leadership and participation in the decisions that affect their lives; to increase economic empowerment; to prevent violence against women and girls and expand victim/survivor services; to increase women’s leadership in peace, security and humanitarian response to conflict and crisis situations; and to ensure that a comprehensive set of global norms, policies and standards on gender equality and women’s empowerment are in place.

Noble Lords are aware of our international champion to eliminate violence against women and girls, Lynne Featherstone. She is currently in New York attending the 56th session of the Commission on the Status of Women and will raise the issue of body confidence among young girls and women, a topic that the noble Lord, Lord Giddens, alluded to. She has received strong support at the UN summit from many countries. She is working closely with all parts of the media and with business and has received active support from them.

I turn now to points raised by noble Lords. I have kept my own remarks brief because I think many of them will be covered in my responses. However, because there are so many responses, I will say from the outset that if I do not deliver all the responses in the time allocated, I will undertake to write and have a copy placed in the Library.

I felt that the noble Baroness, Lady Thornton, was slightly disingenuous in her start. This debate has recognised a lot of the good things that were done by the previous Government and on which we are working. However, we inherited a deficit. We are struggling to ensure that we restore the economy. We know that difficult decisions have to be made and the noble Baroness is aware of that. We are protecting the lowest-paid. Our changes to taxation will lift 1.1 million people out of income tax, some 58 per cent of whom will be women. We are also providing families with more support for childcare costs.

My noble friend Lord Smith spoke of quotas. I, like the noble Lord, Lord Davies of Abersoch, and my noble friend Lady Bottomley, do not like quotas. We think that it is wrong to make an artificial imposition when we want to ensure that those who take up positions are well supported, well qualified and able to do them. We want to make sure that the means to get into such positions are in place. That is the work that the noble Lord has done. The work is re-educating about and making people rethink how to get people placed on boards. Dare I say that for far too long—I think that the noble Baroness, Lady Nye, mentioned it—boards have had very much a group-think mentality and have carried on in the same way that they have known for years. It is great that they have been shaken up to have a rethink about how their boards and their businesses look. My noble friend is wrong. Research from Norway has found that there is a connection between the introduction of quotas and an underperformance of companies.

[Lord Smith of Clifton]

I thank the noble Baroness for referring to my point on quotas. Does she recall that studies have shown that at the present rate of progress it will be 100 years before we get 25 per cent female representation on boards?

[Baroness Verma]

That would be if we allow it to stay the way it is. Through active engagement we are making progress. We have made 2 per cent progress in a short period of time. I am perhaps not as pessimistic as my noble friend.

The noble Baroness, Lady Hayman, spoke about women in the developing world and early marriage, and the education of girls. The UK’s development programme has put girls at its heart. We know that investing in girls at an earlier stage better helps to break the cycle of poverty between the generations. DfID is working with adolescent girls and communities to end early marriage. For example, in Ethiopia, we are supporting the scale-up of a pilot programme which will delay marriage for 200,000 girls. During the pilot, none of the girls married and all of them stayed in school.

The noble Baroness, Lady Hayman, also talked about forced marriage, a subject on which I am intensely passionate. I know this topic inside out. Unfortunately, the culture from which I come still has the attitude that there is a very fine line between consent and forced marriage. We are working sensitively but vigorously to ensure that no longer in this country at least should we tolerate any form of forced marriage. When victims—that is what they are—want support, we want to be there to provide them with that support, which is why the police, the CPS and other agencies have been given guidance to ensure that they too respond in a reflective manner.

What can I say about my noble friend Lady Miller of Hendon? She is at the heart of what most of us look for in a mentor, friend and role model for politics. I know she went completely off-key in her speech, but she did not need it. She is what I would call the friendly face and the friendly hand that comes into politics—someone who, when everything is going wrong, will tell you that it is going to be all right. The organisation of which she was a founding member actually transformed the perception of people who actively wanted to engage in politics and decision-making. My noble friend has a great deal of respect for her husband and values his support, as do I. It is when both men and women are totally engaged that the changes will be brought about. When my noble friend talks about her husband, I talk about my Ashok, because without him we would never have made this journey.

The noble Baroness, Lady Pitkeathley, wanted to know about adult social care. The Government are putting in an extra £7.2 billion over the next four years of the spending review to support adult social care, and that comes in the context of a challenging settlement for local government. Perhaps I may say to the noble Baroness that I have personal experience of the care sector because for over a decade my businesses have been in that sector. I agree with absolutely every word she said about the contribution, both informal and formal, made by carers. I wish that at some point we would have a complete attitude change in this country in how we look at those who actually do some of the most downtrodden jobs for the least thanks. We see the bad headlines, but we do not see that many good care workers do an excellent job on a daily basis.

The noble Baroness also talked about flexible working. We are trying to introduce the extension of such working to all employees to ensure that the benefit is available as widely as possible, including to individuals in the wider caring structure and those who wish to play a more active role in the community or undertake voluntary work. The extension will also change the perception that flexible working can harm career progression. It will encourage more fathers to request flexible working in order to take on a greater share of childcare responsibilities. Someone mentioned something about fathers, and we agree that the workplace has changed. Many more fathers want to be at home spending time with their children. Flexible working is positive for business because it enables it to draw on a much wider pool of skills and talents in the workplace, along with improved recruitment and retention rates. It increases staff morale and productivity. The evidence is also clear that flexible working arrangements benefit women by helping them to balance their caring responsibilities.

The noble Baroness, Lady Gale, highlighted the great benefit of strong Welsh women, and I agree with her. We have a lesson to learn from the Welsh Assembly and I am sure that the noble Baroness, Lady Royall, and I were thinking, “How do we manage this for our next elections?”. What I would like to say to the noble Baroness, Lady Gale, is this: we are a stronger nation for having Wales as part of it, and as a good neighbour we will take lessons and look carefully at how Wales is doing.

The noble Baroness, Lady Benjamin, talked about the important role played by her mother. I heard “Hear, hear” across the Chamber when she said that. Mothers are so important in shaping our ambitions. My mother, like the noble Baroness’s mother, was, is, and I suspect will always remain my greatest inspiration. Again, if I reflect only on my own culture where girls are seen as a bit of a burden—and if you are a girl with a darker skin than the other girls growing up around you, you are a bigger burden—I can tell noble Lords that it is usually the mum who tells you that it is going to be okay.

The noble and learned Baroness, Lady Scotland, talked about legal aid reform and expressed her concerns about women losing out on vital legal aid. The Bill is currently in the House and there will be, I am sure, energetic discussion on it. However, I can reassure the noble Baroness that we are retaining legal aid in key areas impacting on women—in particular injunctions to protect victims from domestic abuse and in private family law cases where domestic violence is a feature.

The noble Baroness also referred to human trafficking. The Government published a human trafficking strategy last July which focused on: improving identification, care of victims, enhancing our ability to act early before the victims reach here, smarter action at the borders and much more co-ordination of law enforcement in the UK. We are also tackling trafficking through our international work. DfID supports projects which are specifically designed to prevent trafficking—for example, the Malawi anti-child trafficking project run by the Salvation Army to improve knowledge of, and access to, rights for children in Malawi who are vulnerable to being trafficked; and in Bangladesh DfID has supported the establishment in the police of a specialised unit for human trafficking.

The noble Baroness, Lady Massey of Darwen, asked whether I agreed with not only the outstanding sacrifices but the work of the suffragettes. Absolutely. Had they not done what they did then, we would be fighting this battle at a much later stage than we are now. The suffragettes put into motion what we have to continue. The work is far from done but I agree with the noble Baroness that it took some outstanding women to stand up at a time when it was very difficult to do so..

The noble Lord, Lord Shipley, asked about DfID’s work with girls and women. I have spoken about that but I shall read out my note because it is important to repeat a good message. I am delighted that he welcomed our strategic vision for girls and women and that he cited the compelling evidence upon which that strategic vision is based. Investing in the poorest girls and women is good for them, their families, societies and economies. I am pleased that DfID is scaling up and prioritising resources to support girls and women in all 28 of its bilateral programmes and international organisations such as UN Women, to which the UK is the second largest donor.

I have been told that I have a couple of minutes left and so I shall quickly ramble through.

My noble friend Lady Seccombe spoke about apprenticeships in non-traditional roles. Working with the National Apprenticeship Service to run a series of diversity pilots we are looking at increasing diversity in apprenticeships. My noble friend pointed out how it can actually transform the culture of both men and women’s thinking by taking on usually non-traditional female apprenticeships. Overall, there are more female apprentices than male, particularly in advanced and higher apprenticeships. However, of course, there is always room for improvement.

The noble Lord, Lord Davies, referred to childcare and how there needs to be a major review. The Government are committed to investment in childcare. We are extending free childcare to the most disadvantaged two year-olds and, through the universal credit, we are providing an extra £300 million of support for women working less than 16 hours.

The noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell, mentioned grannies, an issue on which we need to focus more. They form a huge part of our population and are a huge resource of not only experience and knowledge but patience. I know, for instance, that my daughter much prefers my mother’s company to mine. She thinks my mother is far trendier than I am—probably because my mother does not say no to her as much as I do. However, the noble Baroness is right. We are doing many more things. For instance, we are working on pensions to make sure that women’s basic state pension outcomes rapidly catch up with those of men and continue to improve. Around 80 per cent of women reaching state pension age since April of last year will be entitled to a full basic state pension and projections are that that will rise to 90 per cent in 2018.

The noble Lord, Lord Bach, and I have Leicester in common and agree that cities such as Leicester have so much to offer economically. However, we have to make sure that people in those cities are able to access services and jobs at local authority level, where we have very poor representation both for females and for BMEs. The noble Lord also talked about the legal aid Bill. As I said to the noble and learned Baroness, Lady Scotland, we will leave that until we discuss and debate it in the House.

The noble Lord, Lord Loomba, talked about women, peace and security. Women have a crucial role to play in resolving conflict. The FCO is working with DfID, the MoD and the Stabilisation Unit and is committed to ensuring that the promotion of women’s participation in conflict resolution is an integral part of an overseas conflict policy—not only because the principles of equality and justice underpin our values but because the effective participation of women helps to secure more sustainable peace, which is vital to our security interests. He also champions the role of women, on which I heartily congratulate him.

My noble friend Lady Morris of Bolton spoke about women in the Middle East. The recent uprisings in the Middle East have led to concerns about women’s rights in the context of political instability and conflict. They are at their lowest in fragile and conflict-affected areas such as Yemen, Iraq, and the West Bank and Gaza. Heightened instability in the region could see a further deterioration in women’s participation. However, I also congratulate my noble friend on the work she does to make sure we have a wider understanding of what is going on in that region.

The noble Lord, Lord Giddens, spoke about body image. I agree with almost everything the noble Lord said—we need to tackle the way that women are portrayed in the media so that girls have positive role models and are not under pressure to conform to looking, or behaving in, a certain way. We have launched the body confidence campaign to reduce the burdens that popular culture places on an individual’s well-being and self-esteem.

The noble Baroness, Lady Dean, asked whether I would relay a message to the Colombian Government through the FCO. The Government are firmly committed to working with countries such as Colombia to uphold and protect women’s rights but I will write to Jeremy Browne at the FCO, who is the ministerial lead on this area, and raise the issues with him.

The noble Baroness, Lady Healy, asked me about universal childcare—which I think I have mentioned—as well as free education for disadvantaged two year-olds.

The noble Baroness, Lady Kinnock, noted that deaths in childbirth are too high around the world and asked what we are doing to help. As I have said, DfID, through its strategic vision for girls and women, has set out our commitment to improve reproductive and maternal health for women in the poorest countries as a priority. By 2015, the UK will have helped save the lives of at least 50,000 women during pregnancy and childbirth, and those of 250,000 newborn babies. It will also ensure at least 2 million safe deliveries with long-lasting improvements and access to quality maternity services.

I still have many more responses to deliver so I will ask your Lordships’ indulgence and write to them. I will just conclude with these remarks. We have taken our domestic and international issues very seriously. I have spent the past year or so travelling around the world doing round-table discussions and asking women in the UK what is important to them. That direct contact has benefited us greatly; we are feeding into our departments some of the main issues that women have.

Someone asked me some time ago what inspired me to get up and carry on the fight that sometimes seems hopeless. I said that as a kid I heard Dr Martin Luther King’s speech, “I have a dream”. While there is so much to do, ordinary people are doing extraordinary things, and that inspires me. We have made progress, but we have so much to do, and this Government are determined that we will not shy away from taking difficult decisions.

Female Genital Mutilation

Baroness Verma Excerpts

Thursday 16th February 2012 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Tonge]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government how many cases of female genital mutilation were investigated by the police in the last year for which figures are available.

[Baroness Verma]

My Lords, information on the number of police investigations involving female genital mutilation is not collected centrally. However, the Government work closely with the police and the Crown Prosecution Service to ensure that they are equipped with guidance and information to deal with cases of FGM, and that they are clear on their legal powers to protect women and girls from this abhorrent practice.

[Baroness Tonge]

My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness for that Answer. Is she aware that between November 2009 and November 2011 there were 63 alleged cases reported to the Metropolitan Police which never reached prosecution? Will she undertake to ask the Government to set up a technical review to find out why these cases do not come to prosecution in order to ensure that proper training is given to doctors and midwives to stop this practice in this country? Does she agree that successful prosecutions are the only way to deter families from perpetrating this terrible mutilation on their daughters?

[Baroness Verma]

My Lords, I can inform the noble Baroness that in September 2011 the CPS launched a female genital mutilation guidance pack that has been developed to assist prosecutors in what she knows are extremely complex cases. We are intending to monitor that guidance over 12 months and we will evaluate the results. The Government are of course also working closely with schools, health service staff, charities and community groups so that through the multi-agencies we are able to raise as much awareness as we can. As to the noble Baroness’s point on prosecutions, this is an issue that at the end of the day will achieve results only when the communities themselves decide really to engage with bringing forward perpetrators.

[Baroness Rendell of Babergh]

My Lords, is the Minister aware of the unwillingness of young girls to go into court and give evidence? FGM is an abhorrent practice but is not regarded as such by many of the young girls themselves and by those who advise them. There are many who tell them that if they are not mutilated they will not become real women, they will not find a man to marry them, and they are bullied and victimised by their contemporaries. Is the Minister further aware that if they go into court they may be required to testify against their own parents or family members and people they have known and had a close relationship with all their lives?

[Baroness Verma]

I think the noble Baroness has hit the nail on the head. That is why it is so difficult to get prosecutions. There is also an embedded cultural issue. Until we reach out and get through to the older women in those communities and get them to respond to the young girls who are often unwilling to undergo these practices, we will never get to the nub of the problem. However, I must say that I have come across young people—both men and women—from those communities where FGM is being practised who are beginning openly to stand up to say that they oppose it. That is a positive sign for us all.

[Baroness Morris of Bolton]

My Lords, two or three years ago I attended a round-table multi-agency discussion in Birmingham on female genital mutilation. One of the main problems in getting the message across to some insular communities is the language barrier and the lack of female interpreters. There was real concern that many male interpreters do not convey the fact that FGM is a crime with serious consequences. Can my noble friend say what the position is on interpreters and whether this is still a problem?

[Baroness Verma]

I cannot answer my noble friend directly on the position of female interpreters because that information is not held centrally. However, I can reassure her and your Lordships' House that the police, the Crown Prosecution Service and all those involved in the issue take it incredibly seriously and are working with the sensitivity that it requires. I repeat that unless the communities themselves are willing to engage with outside organisations, this will remain a problem.

[Baroness Howarth of Breckland]

My Lords, I recently attended an international seminar in Brussels which was focused, as the noble Baroness suggests, on how communities can themselves help with this issue. What is being done to engage the communities themselves? How can we learn from some African countries, which are taking work into the communities, rather than trying to find ways ourselves and not succeeding?

[Baroness Verma]

The noble Baroness raises an important point about engagement with the communities. We have set up an FGM fund of £50,000 through which we are helping to fund 10 organisations on the front line that are helping to prevent FGM within those communities. It is important that the results and the influences come from within the communities, so we are engaged with working closely not only with the young people through school education but with the older generation through community groups.

[Baroness Scotland of Asthal]

My Lords, is it not also of critical importance for victims to get appropriate help and support? Is it not therefore the role of the Crown Prosecution Service to support those victims so they are enabled to give their evidence? Are the specialist prosecutors who deal with violence against women still able to do that, bearing in mind the cuts? Is that not something that we should pursue with greater vigour?

[Baroness Verma]

The noble and learned Baroness is absolutely right. That is why the Home Office has ring-fenced £28 million—so that we have those specialist services in place and so that those victims are able to access as much support as we can possibly give them, not just in terms of health and social services but being able to provide accommodation and all the other things that they require if they want to move from the communities that are imposing FGM on them.

[Baroness Hussein-Ece]

My Lords, did my noble friend see the excellent report on “Newsnight” last night on this barbaric practice in Egypt? I was shocked to learn that 90 per cent of women, both Christian and Muslim, are subjected to this awful custom. Is she aware whether the schools in this country are playing their role? Some groups who campaign on the ground and work with young women and their families tell me that the Department for Education says that it does not collate any information that would help in this matter and that it is not really a problem, but schools know when girls are taken out of the country to have this procedure performed.

[Baroness Verma]

I did not watch the programme last night because I was here, sitting in the Chamber.

[A noble Lord]

Working.

[Baroness Verma]

Working, yes. However, I did hear about the programme this morning and people have said how appalled they were by what they saw. The noble Baroness asked about schools. Some 80,000 leaflets and posters have been distributed among schools and healthcare services. But the noble Baroness is absolutely right: we need to do a lot more.

Marriages and Civil Partnerships (Approved Premises) (Amendment) Regulations 2011

Baroness Verma Excerpts

Thursday 15th December 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Falconer of Thoroton]

My Lords—

[Baroness Verma]

My Lords, to assist the House I suggest we hear from the Liberal Democrat Benches first, maybe then the Convenor of the Cross Benches, followed by the noble and learned Lord, Lord Falconer, and then the Bishops.

[Baroness Hamwee]

My Lords, we complain when primary legislation is not commenced or implemented. The first instinct of the noble Lord, Lord Alli, was absolutely right, though he then extended his arguments. We also complain when legislation is not clear. This is not the case today. The Merits Committee, of which I am a member, did not make a judgment on the merits of the substance of this order. It used its entirely standard language, drawing it to the special attention of the House on the grounds that,

“it gives rise to issues of public policy likely to be of interest to the House”.

That statement is quite uncontentious.

I can see from those already attempting to intervene that we will hear today closely argued analysis of a construction of the words “Act”, “authority” and “services”, and I am always glad to recruit such expertise to the cause. Essentially, however, the issue is, “Does the order do what Section 202 of the Equality Act provides?”. I believe that it does. Or, “Does it require any individual or organisation to do what they do not wish to do?”. I believe that it does not. The order cannot trump primary legislation, nor can it require what the Act itself precludes. As we have been reminded, primary legislation says that nothing places an obligation on religious organisations to host civil partnerships if they do not wish to do so. If there are differing views within an organisation, that is not a matter for government.

The noble Baroness uses in her prayer the word “pledge”. It is not a pledge—or rather, it is more than a pledge—because the words are in Section 202. That section is surely permissive: it is an opt-in, not an opt-out. We know there are objections to it, but that was a matter for 2010. I say that to those who would like to extend that section, as well as to those who would like to see it interpreted restrictively. To attempt now to reverse it, extend it or block it, is inappropriate.

I will be quick because there are so many noble Lords who wish to speak. I find it very difficult to see anxiety engendered among people with a particular view. I do not like to see people fed fear. I realise that something that may seem entirely reasonable to me may seem very prejudicial to you, whoever you and I are—that is, whichever side of the argument one is on. I will end by voicing what others might see as my own prejudices. That 46,000 couples have entered into civil partnerships is wonderful; 92,000 people have been able to give formal, legal expression to their relationship. It is a paradox that some who advocate celebrating marriage within a faith oppose extending it to other stable relationships. I welcome the order and look forward to taking forward Section 202.

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[Baroness Verma]

My Lords, perhaps we may hear from someone on the Conservative Benches and then come back to the noble Lord.

Lord Mackay of Clashfern: My Lords, it is absolutely plain that the noble Lord, Lord Alli, and those who supported him in the amendment moved in the debates on the Equality Act 2010—Section 202—were clearly of the view that no obligation should be placed upon any religious body to host a civil partnership if they did not wish to do so. That is absolutely plain. What is more, they were prepared to put into the amendment a statutory provision that declared that nothing in this Act would place an obligation on religious organisations to do so.

That amendment was made by the Equality Act 2010, but it was made to Section 6A of the Civil Partnership Act 2004. If you go along to the Printed Paper Office and ask for a copy of the 2004 Act, you will discover that it contains no Section 6A. That is because Section 6A was put into the Act by a regulation in 2005. That regulation was made under a provision in the Civil Partnership Act allowing statutory amendments to be made in respect of the Acts that were passed before the end of the Session in which the 2004 Act was passed. Therefore, any enactment contained in an Act passed before the end of 2004 can be amended by statutory regulation, using the affirmative procedure.

The point that arises in this case is a short one and I am not going to go into the opinions of the QCs. Noble Lords have had the great advantage of hearing another QC giving an opposite opinion—and it is not infrequent that that happens. I am going to give no opinion at all about the correctness or otherwise of the provision. They are practising QCs. They have signed their opinions, they are genuinely held and they illustrate a doubt—that is all—about the effect of the Equality Act on these regulations.

My point is that the amendment that the noble Lord, Lord Alli, and his colleagues put forward, which was accepted on a free vote in this House and the House of Commons, refers to nothing in this Act, but only to provisions in the 2004 Act. The opinion of these Silks is that the risk arises not from the provisions of the 2004 Act but from the provisions of the Equality Act 2010. To my mind, this issue can be completely set to rest by a simple amendment. Instead of saying “nothing in this Act shall”, the provision would say “nothing in this or any other Act shall”. The Government could do that without difficulty because I am sure we are all agreed that we mean to exclude any attack on the basis of the Equality Act.

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[The Lord Bishop of Blackburn]

My Lords—

[Baroness Verma]

My Lords, we have plenty of time. Perhaps we could hear from the right reverend Prelate and then from the noble Baroness.

[The Lord Bishop of Blackburn]

My Lords, of course I share the concerns expressed by others about how these regulations might affect other churches. However, like my brother the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Oxford, I should like to say how I think these regulations might affect the Church of England, although I shall perhaps be looking through a slightly different part of the lens.

At the moment, the Church of England, through the General Synod, has not expressed any desire at all for its churches to be used for registering civil partnerships. Therefore, it might be thought that I should be very content to rely simply on the provisions of the regulations that would require the consent of the General Synod to be given before any Church of England church could be approved for registering civil partnerships. However, it seems that this provision is not without difficulty. As your Lordships will know, we have special procedures in General Synod for matters that affect the doctrine or liturgy of the church. It could be thought by some that allowing churches to be used for civil partnerships would affect the doctrine or worship of the church. If so, those special procedures would come into play.

The provision in the schedule to the regulations talks simply about requiring the consent in writing of the General Synod without defining how that consent is to be obtained. If at some future date the proper consent of General Synod were obtained, there could still be difficulties for individual clergy. There are, as we have heard, a variety of legal opinions about whether a claim for discrimination against a priest who refused to allow his or her church to be used for registering a civil partnership would succeed. However, at the end of the day, clergy should not be put at risk of having to defend such claims, even if they seem unlikely and their prospect of success seems remote.

It seems clear, however, that an incumbent who refused to allow his or her church to be approved for civil partnerships would gain no protection from Regulation 2B, because the obligation not to discriminate comes not from the regulations but from the Equality Act. Regulation 2B would appear to be nothing more than window-dressing, and it shows how unsatisfactory these regulations are. There may be good intent but the promised conscience clause simply is not there. It cannot be there in regulations; either the Equality Act or the Civil Partnership Act needs to be amended to provide the necessary clause. I would want to see an express statutory conscience clause similar to that contained in Section 8 of the Matrimonial Causes Act 1965, which provides that no priest of the Church of England or the Church in Wales can be compelled to allow their church or chapel to be used for the solemnisation of a marriage of a divorced person whose former spouse is still living.

As the General Synod has not expressed any desire for Church of England churches and chapels to be approved for registering civil partnerships, there is surely no need for the Church of England to be included in these regulations at all. Indeed, it should be expressly excluded from them; otherwise, might it look as though Parliament is breaking what I understand to be the convention that it legislates for the Church of England only when the church has asked it to? If at some future date General Synod decided—

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[Baroness Verma]

The noble Baroness, Lady Richardson, has been trying to get in for a long time. We will hear from the noble Lord, Lord Anderson, afterwards.

[Baroness Richardson of Calow]

My Lords, I rejoice that many Christians and some churches have acknowledged that for some men and women, a loving, committed, intimate, faithful relationship can happen only within a same-sex partnership. I want to delight in that. I want to celebrate it with ceremony and joy, and I want those couples to be encouraged to take their rightful place in creative responsibility and participation in all society. I also want to learn from them the things that God is saying about His grace being given to human beings who are made in His image in infinite variety.

I am well aware that my theological viewpoint is vehemently opposed by many people, including many in this House, but it is a legitimate viewpoint that I could argue with many people. I hope today that while it is obvious that this legislation for registration of civil partnerships in religious buildings is permissive, I do not want it to be made obligatory but neither do I want it to be prohibited. Many churches have the right through their decision-making processes to determine their own theological position and to be able to follow through with many people what is for them the root celebration of their whole being.

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[Baroness Butler-Sloss]

My Lords—

[Baroness Verma]

Let us hear from the noble Lord, Lord Anderson.

[Lord Anderson of Swansea]

My Lords, this has been a remarkable debate. I only wish that there had been a similar debate in the other place, but there was not. We have heard two former Lord Chancellors taking different views, and two members of the Bishop’s Bench taking opposite views, in the same debate. The remarkable fact is that there has also been substantial common ground in almost all the speeches that have been made. First, this is clearly a highly sensitive issue involving deep matters of principle. Secondly, churches that do not wish to register civil partnerships should not be obliged to do so, but conversely churches that do wish to do so should be allowed to do so. The Government have made a serious attempt in these regulations to put these matters into law. Today’s decision clearly depends on a judgment as to whether, after the proper consultation by the Government, they have succeeded in that aim.

I shall briefly give my own explanation of this. It is clear that, because of the exemption to the Roman Catholic Church, the Church of England and the church in Wales, they have been largely satisfied that the safeguards are sufficient for them. It is also clear that there have been learned and weighty opinions on both sides of the argument. Professor Hill has been mentioned, as have Mr O’Neill and Mr Goulding. The advice of the noble Lord, Lord Henley, in his letter of 13 December, states that the lawyers appear to contradict one another.

For me the question is this: is there a doubt that the regulations have properly put into effect the views of the Government? If there is a doubt, is it a fanciful doubt or is it a serious doubt? Is there at the very least an arguable case that the Government have failed to provide adequate safeguards? The lawyers’ different views and the views expressed today suggest that there is a real, not a fanciful, doubt and the churches should not have to defend themselves against possible well resourced litigants.

I note the undertaking given by the Minister in his letter, which I have cited, that if, contrary to his view, there were to be a successful legal challenge, if one were to be brought, there would be an immediate review by government. That is welcome as far it goes, and I hope that in replying the Minister will put in his speech similar, or perhaps even stronger, undertakings. No Government can bind their successors and it is surely far better for the Government to end any possible doubt by taking these regulations back and by showing that there are amendments that close a possible loophole, thus preventing a serious legal challenge being made to them. The noble and learned Lord, Lord Mackay, has suggested one way in which this should be done. Mr O’Neill has suggested another way. That is the reasonable response which the House should make today.

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[Baroness Noakes]

My Lords—

[Baroness Verma]

My Lords, may we hear from the Conservative Benches, then from the Liberal Democrats, and then from across the House?

[Baroness Noakes]

My Lords, I was pleased to be able to add my name to the amendment tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Alli, in the Equality Act and I am equally pleased to be standing here today supporting my Government in bringing forward the regulations, which will complete what we started. I am proud of the journey that my party has made from opposition to civil partnerships to full acceptance of and delight in seeing these regulations taken forward. I do not understand why, but we have a free vote on these Benches. I do not believe that it is a matter of conscience. I believe, as has been said today, that it is legal interpretation of whether these regulations give effect to what we are clear that Parliament thought that we had to do. We have the luxury of a free vote, and that as it happens is a nice thing, but it means that we must use our free vote wisely or we must be clear that we are using it in the right way.

I do not believe that the majority of my party now opposes civil partnerships. We want to see an end to the discrimination against couples entering civil partnerships whereby they are prohibited from celebrating it on religious premises when the religious body wishes to take part in it. We should do the right thing today and end that discrimination and not take fright at some highly disputed legal argument, especially given the Minister’s undertaking that should there be a legal problem the Government will ultimately deal with it. I hope that my noble friends will join me in supporting the Government if it proves necessary.

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[Lord Dannatt]

My Lords—

[Baroness Verma]

My Lords, if the noble Lord, Lord Carlile, could speak, we could then hear from the Labour Benches.

[Lord Carlile of Berriew]

I was going to defer to my noble friend Lord Lester.

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[Lord Dannatt]

My Lords—

[Baroness Verma]

My Lords, we will hear from the noble Lord, Lord Collins, and then from the noble Lord, Lord Dannatt.

[Lord Collins of Highbury]

My Lords, in my maiden speech to this House, my first thanks went to the officials and staff for their warm introduction. Not only did they make me feel extremely welcome, they made my husband Rafael feel extremely welcome, too. My second thanks went to your Lordships, not least for the fact that I was able to say “my husband”. These Benches have helped transform my life and the lives of countless lesbian and gay people in this country. I am immensely pleased that it is no longer just noble friends on one side of this House who applaud progress in this area but Peers on every side of the Chamber. That consensus is a sign of this House at its best.

I am therefore very sad that, despite this strong consensus, we have this Motion before us today—sad because it reflects neither the view of the majority of noble Lords nor the intent of the regulations arising from Section 202 of the Equality Act 2010. It is because I strongly support the principle of religious freedom that I welcomed the adoption of this section in the Act—that is, the freedom that would allow a church to say no to civil partnership ceremonies conducted in their premises or by their priests. Equally, if a religious institution or church does wish to celebrate a civil partnership, it should be able to do so. The unconditional right for lesbian and gay marriage through civil partnership can only be a civil one. That is a responsibility the state must ensure is provided without discrimination, fear or retribution. But just as I believe the Church should not interfere with the rights and responsibilities of civic society, I equally believe that the state should not interfere with the conduct of religion or ceremonies in places of worship.

As we have heard today, Section 202 is, as was always intended by those who supported it across the House, entirely permissive. We have heard clear legal opinion from the Church of England and the Government, and many prominent legal counsel have supported this view. The points made by Professor Hill, on which the noble Baroness relies, have also been considered, as we have heard, by Paul Goulding QC in a detailed written opinion, which I know many noble Lords will have seen. It is clear from Mr Goulding’s opinion that neither the regulations nor any part of the law would compel religious organisations to host civil partnerships against their wishes. In particular, he points to the provisions of the Equality Act which expressly state that. My noble and learned friend Lord Falconer argued this case so well in agreement with Mr Goulding’s opinion.

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[Lord Cormack]

My Lords—

[Baroness Verma]

My Lords, perhaps the noble Lord, Lord Dannatt, could speak first and then my noble friend Lord Cormack.

[Lord Dannatt]

My Lords, had I spoken earlier in this debate, I would have made a lengthy speech, much of which has been overtaken by the course of events, which would have been in support of the noble Baroness, Lady O’Cathain. I maintain my support for her today.

Much legal opinion has been expressed on both sides of the argument and a fair consensus would appear to have emerged, but I am left with a residual feeling of ambiguity. Ambiguity can give rise to unintended consequences, and it is unintended consequences that I am worried about. Those consequences arise from regulations that are not crystal clear and have worried a lot of ordinary decent people up and down this country, who have filled noble Lords’ postbags and mine in the past few days.

The noble Lord, Lord Henley, circulated his letter, which we received yesterday, in which he states—and we have heard it repeated already today—that,

“if a successful legal challenge were ever brought, I would like to provide reassurance that the Government would immediately review the relevant legislation”.

If we think that there is some doubt or ambiguity in this case, and if we think that ambiguity could lead to unintended consequences, there is an obligation on the Minister to activate that sentence in the last paragraph of his letter and, for the avoidance of doubt, to make it crystal clear—an expression that we have heard many times in this Chamber today—to people up and down the country, whoever they are, that they have nothing to fear from these regulations. Until I hear a commitment to the avoidance of doubt, I maintain my support for the noble Baroness, Lady O’Cathain.

National Well-being

Baroness Verma Excerpts

Wednesday 14th December 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Layard]

My Lords, I congratulate the noble Baroness, Lady Tyler, on proposing and securing this debate. I strongly agreed with everything that she said.

I do not think that there is any issue more topical or more urgent than this. Even before the economic crisis began, people world wide were beginning to question whether economic growth really should be the key touchstone of the policies of their Governments. “Surely”, people were saying, “human well-being must be the ultimate goal”.

Among governmental organisations, the greatest credit goes to the OECD for being daring enough to highlight this issue in 2004 when it began the first of its great conferences on defining progress. When it comes to individual countries, Britain is seen world wide as being the country, other than Bhutan, which has done more to promote well-being as a government objective, to think about it and to move towards measuring it. It is fair to say that many people around the world are looking at Britain to see what lessons can be learnt from how we are handling these issues here.

Of course, this started under the previous Government. We had well-being divisions set up in many departments, including health, employment, education and environment, and in 2009 the Office for National Statistics began its work on how to measure our national well-being. That said, of all the political leaders in the advanced world, our present Prime Minister has been outstanding in championing the idea that well-being should be a central, if not the central, objective of government. He said it in 2006, when he first became leader of the Conservative Party and talked about general and national well-being, and he said it even more emphatically when the measurement exercise was launched last November. He was absolutely right—I am not sure whether the right reverend Prelate would agree—that if you ask what is the purpose of government, it is difficult to see any other purpose for government than to create the conditions in which people can lead happy lives. How they find happiness is a subtle matter, but the Government create many of the conditions in which people lead their lives and surely that should be the basic guiding principle. I agree with Thomas Jefferson, who said that the care of human life and happiness is the first legitimate objective of government. I challenge anyone to come up with any other legitimate objective of government.

Perhaps I may comment first on the issue of measurement and then on the policy implications of the well-being objective and the Government’s performance in that respect. As the noble Baroness said, if you do the wrong thing, you search for your keys where the light is rather than where they really are. You only do the right thing if you measure the right thing.

It used to be supposed that it was impossible to measure the quality of life as people experience it in themselves, but in the past 30 years there has been an explosion of research on happiness which has shown that it is as measurable as any other internal state. We measure people’s political attitudes and do not think that is highly controversial; we measure whether they are unemployed, which depends on their state of mind in the way that it is measured in our official statistics; and how to measure depression used to be a subject of controversy but it no longer is. I am quite sure that in due course we will have a settled way of measuring well-being.

We currently have a number of ways and it is absolutely clear that although none of them is perfect—no measurement of anything is perfect—the measurements we already have provide valuable and meaningful information. For example, how people reply to questions about their happiness is closely related to the objective measurements you can make of electrical activity in the relevant parts of the brain, as well as being well related to the observations made by relatives, friends and observers; and the answers that people give to these questions are explicable in terms of many of the factors such as those mentioned by the noble Baroness.

This is not the place to discuss the exact questions the ONS is trialling—I declare an interest in that I have been involved in advising it about what questions to ask—but the Office for National Statistics, under its able chief statistician, has approached this issue in a most professional way. It has been testing many alternative approaches suggested by different people in addition to the four main questions it is already asking on a routine basis. By next summer they will have been answered, over a 12-month period, by 200,000 people

It will be an important moment when those results are published because it will give us, for the first time, an account of the state of the nation in terms of what I maintain matters most—how people actually experience and evaluate their lives. I am not sure whether it would be too grand to say that this will be a moment of comparable importance to the Domesday Book, or the first census, or certainly the great Rowntree surveys of wealth and poverty. It will show us, for the first time, who in our population is in misery and who is not. Many of the results will open our eyes, as did the Domesday Book, the census and the Rowntree surveys. It will be a very important moment in how we view our country.

It is also very important that the Government have insisted that the sample is big enough to provide valid and reliable results for each local authority area. One can imagine the debates in each council when they get their results and look at the distribution—where it is good, where it is bad and how it compares with other areas. It will be a wake-up call and I would be astonished if it does not lead spontaneously to a revision of the priorities of local government and of course—it is happening already to some extent—of central government.

Once you have got the measurements the next question is: why are things like this; what can be done about it? Of course, explaining the distribution of well-being—what are the causes of misery and happiness—should be, when we take into account the indirect causes as well as the direct causes, the main task of social science. We should think about the top priorities in social science.

We already know a great deal about what are the really important factors and the noble Baroness has already said much of it. I would say that, first, comes health—and mental health above all—and next comes human relationships, family, work, community, and money also matters to everyone. However, there are two important qualifications to that on which I would like to spend a little time.

First, in a country as rich as ours, relative income matters to people more than absolute income, and as our country becomes absolutely richer we cannot all become relatively richer compared to other people in our community; if some go up, others have to go down. This helps to explain why, as the noble Baroness said, there has been no increase in measured happiness despite the huge increases in absolute income experienced over the past 60 years.

It follows from this that although we need to deal with our immediate problem of unemployment and unused human resources, we need growth in the sense that we need short-run growth to get back to a state of full employment. We should not confuse that with long-run growth, which is much less important. We are going to have to revise our priorities away from the presumption before that almost anything could be sacrificed for the sake of greater long-term growth towards one where we put more priority on human relationships relative to long-run growth. We have put excessive priority on long-run growth and we have allowed it to erode our relationships in the family, work and so on. We have allowed the banks to argue that we need a highly risky economic structure on the grounds that it might produce more and higher long-term growth and we should not continue to accept those kinds of arguments. They are probably not even true in terms of long-term growth, and they are certainly wrong in terms of our values. Economic stability is far more important than long-term growth. The other caveat about money is that an additional pound increases the happiness of a poor person more than a rich person. Roughly speaking, the value of money to a person is inversely proportional to their income.

Finally, let me say a word about how the current actions of the Government stack up against the well-being objective. The Government face many constraints. They have made many important initiatives to promote well-being; in particular I would like to mention the one that the noble Baroness referred to: their commitment to complete the national rollout of improved access to psychological therapy. But if we look at the big picture, it is difficult to claim that the Government have prioritised well-being. Across income groups, the incidence of the overall cuts—including the expenditure cuts as well as the tax benefit changes—is affecting the poor more than the rich. This is inconsistent with what I said about the value of money to different parties. Across types of activity, the cuts are affecting our systems of human support for the young, the old and the unemployed more than they are affecting our capacity to produce long-term growth.

In fact, the Government have recently been hinting that they want to switch expenditure from current expenditure, which provides support for the social sector, towards higher infrastructure spending. As a founder member of the movement called Action for Happiness, I constantly hear stories about the devastating effect of this in terms of human well-being.

[Baroness Verma]

Can the noble Lord come to an end?

[Lord Layard]

I have tried to present a balanced scorecard. When the Government talk about the importance of well-being, I think it is totally sincere. It is a concern shared by all parties, but when it comes to the Government’s performance in delivering well-being, I am afraid that there is room for improvement.