English Devolution and Local Government

Baroness Taylor of Stevenage Excerpts

Wednesday 12th February 2025 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Pinnock (LD)]

I remind the House that I have relevant interests as a councillor and as a vice- president of the Local Government Association. This is a wide-ranging Statement about the future of local government. There are three different elements within the Statement, and I want to address each separately.

First, I want to think about the creation of the so-called strategic authorities. The Government, in the headline to their Statement, described it as “devolution”. It is not devolution; it is delegation of powers from the centre in Westminster. True devolution will occur only when funding is raised locally and decisions are made locally, without the iron grip of Whitehall being exerted. This is a bit of a challenge for the Minister: if they are to have devolution, can she describe the route to the place where there is freedom for local government to make and fund its decisions, without the diktat from above?

The next challenge I have for the Minister—I am sorry, there are one or two here—is that of the democratic deficit that is being deliberately created. We are, apparently, going to have mayors for these so-called strategic authorities. If the evidence from the past in the election of mayors is to continue, mayors are elected—when they are stand-alone elections—by less than 20% of the electorate, which is hardly a resounding vote of confidence in that system. Those of us who care about local democracy are rightly concerned about increasing powers. For example, the mayors of the strategic authorities will have the power to create policy on housing and on strategic planning, which really affect the lives of residents. How will those decisions be respected when the mayors have been elected by such a low number of electors?

One small step that the Government could take to help reverse this democratic deficit is to return to the voting system that prevailed in the election of mayors until the previous Government, in their last throes, decided to remove the additional vote system and return to first past the post. I guess they thought it would help their cause; it did not. At least having an additional vote—albeit that is not what would I want—means that more people help to support the person who is elected.

The next element of the Statement is the abolition of district councils. I serve on a metropolitan council, so district councils are not anything I have experienced, but we know that they are very efficient in running very local services and are very close to the residents they serve. Systems always need reform, so if there is going to be reform of this two-tier system, why do we not think of change rather than abolition? Is it because the county councils are running out of money, and they need the district council reserves to prop them up?

In the new era of unitary authorities, the Government are talking about the average size of these unitary authorities being a population of 500,000. That is very much like the metropolitan area that I serve in. I can tell the House that this means that the wards that councillors will be elected to serve in will be large, and in rural areas they will be geographically large. I suspect that the Government are considering a ratio of councillor to electors of about 1:5,000. That is a very large number of people, and it would take local democracy away from people.

The last item I want to raise is the cancelling of elections. I do not think that, in a democracy, we should ever cancel elections. I know that the previous Government cancelled elections, so there is a bit of a precedent, but I do not think that it is one that should be repeated. People have a right to have their say in electing people to represent them. The difficulty that cancelling these elections creates is that the existing councillors who were elected four years ago will be the ones who determine the set-up for the new unitary councils in their area. If you do that you need the electoral mandate to do it, which they will not have.

I am very disappointed that the Government have decided that democracy is not worthy of the name, and that we are moving local government further and further away from local people. I hope that the Minister will be able to answer my questions and put some life back in local democracy.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government (Baroness Taylor of Stevenage) (Lab)]

I thank both noble Baronesses for their questions. The number one mission of our Government is to unlock growth in our regions. It is to this end that we are working very hard to start this generational opportunity to devolve powers and funding from Whitehall and Westminster to our local areas, where local leaders have skin in the game in making things happen for their communities. It is a very important part of our mission. With the measures we announced last Wednesday, over 44 million people will see the benefits of devolution. That is close to 80% of the county—more progress in a short amount of time than any Government in Britain’s history.

It is very important that we get on with this. This issue has been hanging around for most of my local government career, which is longer that I care to admit to. I have been involved in at least four long-term proposals for devolution in my time, and it is time that we got on with the job.

We have heard from councils that unitarisation or council mergers can help strengthen local leadership, improve local services, save taxpayers money and improve local accountability. That is why we invited formal unitary proposals from all the councils in two-tier areas and their neighbouring small unitaries.

We acknowledge that, for some areas, the timing of election affects their planning for devolution, particularly alongside reorganisation. To help manage these demands, we have considered requests to postpone elections from May 2025 to May 2026. We have been very clear that we would consider these requests only where it would help the area to deliver reorganisation and devolution to the most ambitious timeframe. That is a very high bar, and rightly so. Of these requests, the Government agree that for Norfolk and Suffolk, Essex and Thurrock, Hampshire and the Isle of Wight, and East Sussex and West Sussex, postponement is essential for the delivery of the devolution priority programme and complementary reorganisation. The Government have also agreed to postpone elections in Surrey, where reorganisation is essential to locking devolution options. We had a much larger number of proposals than that but, as I say, it was a very high bar.

I will address the questions posed by the noble Baronesses. I completely disagree with the characterisation from the noble Baroness, Lady Scott, that local authorities are being bullied and blackmailed, and that this is a top-down reorganisation. That is completely wrong. We asked local authorities to put proposals forward, and the fact that we were oversubscribed, with the number of local authorities that did so, shows the enthusiasm for this. I met with a large number of local authorities over the course of the consultation, and they are all very enthusiastic and positive about this proposal. We have driven local authorities to the edge of this then marched them back down the hill so many times. It is time that we just got on with the job.

On the noble Baroness’s points about consultation, we are undertaking extensive consultation in all the areas that I outlined just now. The Government will be starting that next week. We have asked for the local authorities to help us contact their stakeholders—whether they are community stakeholders, business groups or other channels—so that consultation is as wide as possible. We will continue to use consultation as the basis for the plans we take forward.

On council tax, I remind the party opposite that the failure properly to fund local government over many years was the worst thing that happened to social care and children’s services in my time in local government. We need to take steps now to restructure local government to make it sustainable for the future, and to make sure that it works properly to deliver the services that we need now, not the services that were needed 30 years ago.

On how restructuring will put more money in people’s pockets, I note that people will get better services from their local councils. The addition of a strategic level will make sure that every region in this country will benefit from the growth that we hope to see going forward, and every region will contribute to it. I am afraid that the levelling-up mission of the previous Government did not reach out to many areas of our country, so it is now time we did that.

We are of course aware of the issues with council staff, and we will work very closely with the Local Government Association and council colleagues on that.

On the impact on housing delivery, I genuinely believe that having mayors in a strategic role in our local areas, driving forward both housing and growth—in a way that makes sense for their area, which is the important part of this procedure—will be critical to seeing the housing delivery and growth that we want to see.

On the significant levels of debt that the noble Baroness mentioned, it is the responsibility of councils to manage their debts, and it is standard for councils to borrow and hold debt. We will work with local leaders to explore how best to support local government reorganisation where there has been failure, and we will continue to work with best value commissioners to support councils’ financial recovery.

The noble Baroness, Lady Pinnock, raised a number of issues, some of which I have already answered. The devolution of powers from Westminster down to local areas is a critical, once-in-a-generation step that we want to see. I am afraid that I disagree with her point that that is not devolution; I genuinely believe that it is. It will then be for the councils to facilitate further devolution out to the people in their local areas.

The noble Baroness mentioned the democratic deficit. If you look at what mayors have been able to achieve in their areas in improving skills, transport and many other things, you will see that there is no democratic deficit. In fact, the people in the areas that already have elected mayors are really benefiting from that. We have decided at this stage not to return to an alternative voting system, and we will stick with first past the post for these elections.

On district councils, the two tiers make for a complex picture. I was in a two-tier area for all my local government career. Many people do not understand which council does which services. Now is the time to address that issue once and for all, to make sure that there is only one council delivering for the people it serves. It will be for the Local Government Boundary Commission to decide the size of the wards and their representation. As I explained, cancelling elections will give local authorities the space to manage the process in order to get their new structures in place in time for mayoral elections in 2026.

[Lord Harris of Haringey (Lab)]

My Lords, I welcome the Statement. This Government are acting with decisiveness to sort out the mess of local government, in a way that previous Governments have neglected. I was a councillor for 20 years, and my Cumbria County Council 2021 re-election campaign was cancelled because of a Conservative Government decision about reorganisation, so I do not think this is a party-political point the Opposition can honestly make.

What Labour is trying to do here is to create a reasonably uniform system of local government in this country, with elected mayors playing a crucial role. Is this not a foundational step—I ask this in response to the noble Baroness, Lady, Pinnock, whom I greatly respect —towards greater devolution of powers and money from Whitehall to the newly created, much more efficient local authorities?

[Baroness Taylor of Stevenage (Lab)]

I thank my noble friend for that genuine advocacy of local government; I share his faith in local government delivering for the people it serves. The White Paper sets out this ambitious new framework for English devolution, moving power out of Westminster to those who take decisions for and with their communities. We want to see all of England access devolved power by establishing the strategic authorities, and a number of councils working together over areas that people recognise—that is the important point, because this is coming from local areas—and that can make the key decisions to drive economic growth.

My noble friend is quite right that elections being postponed to drive forward such programmes is not unique to our Government. Following these decisions, of the 33 council elections originally scheduled for May 2025, 24 will take place, with nine being delayed to May 2026. Previous Governments have taken similar decisions that it was necessary to postpone elections to give councils the space to do the work necessary.

[Lord Fuller (Con)]

My Lords, the noble Lord referred to consistency between authorities. The average number of electors in a London borough is 173,000, and in a small unitary it is 237,000, but the Government plan to have new councils consisting of half a million people. That is inconsistent with democracy, and with what the noble Lord said.

Yesterday, I asked the noble Baroness what we are going to do about electoral equality, and she answered that the Boundary Commission will work to ensure consistency within authorities. But the thrust of my question is: what about consistency between them? I have the fourth-oldest outstanding Written Question on the Order Paper, on page 16, which asks about the capacity of the Boundary Commission to undertake this work. When does the noble Baroness intend to answer my Question—or would she like to accompany me to the Tolpuddle Martyrs Museum in Dorset on a day trip, where she can understand how the fundamental principles of equality of representation across all electoral areas can be ensured?

[Baroness Taylor of Stevenage (Lab)]

I thank the noble Lord for his offer to visit the Tolpuddle Martyrs Museum. I have already been there. However, I did pick up his point about the need to enhance and promote visits to that museum; it is a very worthwhile visit.

I answered a number of questions yesterday about the electoral reviews in the areas concerned. It is very important that the Local Government Boundary Commission for England is allowed to do its job properly. The department has, of course, been talking to the commission throughout this process about the work it will need to do as a result of the changes we are making to local government. It is ready to help both with boundary reviews, where necessary, and with the boundaries for the new authorities and the boundaries within those authorities. I explained yesterday the criteria that the commission uses to do that. It has very strict criteria, and I am sure it will keep to those, as it has done during all the time it has been operating.

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD)]

My Lords, the White Paper seems to have a dreadful confusion between local and regional running throughout it. Does the Minister share my concern about the low level of public trust in democratic politics throughout England? I live in a city where wards average 15,000 people each, and local councillors find it very difficult to keep in touch with all the communities in their ward. The problem in our cities is that we are in danger of having a structure that is so distant from the local communities that people lose trust in and contact with democratic politics. Participation falls, and mistrust in our political system grows.

My second question is on accountability. We are told that mayors are going to be held strongly accountable, but as I read the White Paper, they are going to be accountable mainly to the Secretary of State, not to local councillors as such. That seems to me another way in which this is a false devolution and a real delegation. Can the Minister address those two questions?

[Baroness Taylor of Stevenage (Lab)]

First, I share the noble Lord’s concern about mistrust in politics, but local government is the most trusted part of the political system, far more trusted than national politicians. I make that point to him. Of course it is right that the sizes of ward boundaries or divisional boundaries are appropriate for councillors to fulfil their need, but it is also important that those sizes are appropriate for the area that they represent. I am sure that the Local Government Boundary Commission for England will be taking great account of whether areas are majorly urban or rural and all the issues that it normally takes into account.

On mayoral accountability, it is not the case that the mayors will just be accountable to the Government. The White Paper sets out very clearly that there will be local public accounts committees in place and that the constituent parts of the combined authorities—the unitary authorities that sit within them—will have all the usual accountability mechanisms for those local authorities. They will have scrutiny and overview committees, they will explore the decisions of the Executive and the mayor will have a similar process at their level. So accountability will sit at the heart of the system. We will also mend the very broken audit system that has been left as a legacy from the previous Government and which has not worked for a number of years. The Government intend to address that and that is set out in the White Paper as well.

[Lord Inglewood (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, we know, because it is spelled out in the second sentence of the Statement, that the number 1 mission of this Government is to unlock growth in our regions and put money in the pockets of working people. Does the Minister not agree that the first way to take that forward is to stop sucking money out of the regions and then, secondly, provide additional resources and launch initiatives to catalyse growth-creating activities on the ground? I declare that I too am a resident and council tax payer in Cumbria.

[Baroness Taylor of Stevenage (Lab)]

Well, it very much seems that Cumbria is our happy place this afternoon.

I worked very closely with the politicians in Cumbria to get to where we are and am very pleased to see what they are doing. The noble Lord is quite right about local people taking decisions. The Government set an overall framework around these things, but this is absolutely right. Economies are different in every area and their needs, in terms of skills and training and infrastructure to support those economies, are different across the country. Therefore, it is very important that those decisions about strategic growth are taken locally. I agree that it is time that we got those powers, and the funding to enable that, out to the areas where they can do the best job.

[Lord Beamish (Lab)]

My Lords, does my noble friend the Minister agree that the noble Baroness who speaks on behalf of the Conservative Party has a short memory? It was the last Conservative Government who held a gun to the heads of local councils, withholding funding unless they had a devolution deal. On finance, they not only cut the budgets in local government by 30% but fixed the system to move money from poor areas to rich areas—confirmed by Rishi Sunak in his leadership bid. Debt was encouraged by the Government at the time; getting into speculative development to plug the hole in local government finance. Does the Minister also agree that there are success stories in unitary councils, one being Durham County Council, which came into being in 2009? It abolished seven inefficiently led local district councils which, if they had still been in existence, would have gone by the by because of austerity.

[Baroness Taylor of Stevenage (Lab)]

I thank my noble friend. I very well remember that speech from the former Prime Minister. We have already taken some steps during this year’s spending round to switch the funding formula back to where the need is most in our country for local government. We have put additional money into key areas such as special educational needs and adult care services. We made a further announcement yesterday about more funding for affordable housing, particularly to improve the quality of temporary and emergency accommodation.

In the spending review in the spring, we will do more to shift the balance back so that the spending review for local government will follow the needs in local areas. As we do that from one side, we also have mayors and unitary councils and strategic approaches; as each part of the country begins to grow, everybody will benefit.

[Lord Lansley (Con)]

My Lords, I remind noble Lords of my registered interest in relation to Cambridgeshire and Oxfordshire. Those are two counties that will have county elections this May, yet they have received letters from the ministry saying that they must present initial plans on 21 March, which I assume is the day before purdah for those elections. Does it make any sense at all for those initial plans to be sent before the elections and before any administration that has been elected can come into place and put forward initial plans? Will the Minister delay that request from 21 March to the latter part of May at the very earliest?

[Baroness Taylor of Stevenage (Lab)]

I can give the noble Lord a very straightforward answer to that. No, we will not delay it, because we have a number of partners in local government coming to us who want to take part in this process. The proposal put forward on 21 March is an outline proposal; where there are new Administrations elected in May, there will be several months until the final proposal is due, which is at the end of November, where they can continue engagement with the Government and other partners, including the districts, to develop those final proposals.

If a new administration is elected in May, it is of course within their gift to depart from the interim plans set out by a previous administration, but we will continue working with all partners until we get to the 28 November deadline, when we expect final proposals to come in.

[Lord Bach (Lab)]

My Lords, as police and crime commissioner for Leicester, Leicestershire & Rutland for five years, I very much enjoyed working with two unitary authorities in Leicester and Rutland, Leicestershire County Council and seven districts. It was hard work. I do not think we have yet heard enough—maybe it will take time to develop—about what the, hopefully, advanced role will be for parish councils and town councils once the districts disappear in areas in counties. It is a vital role. It may well be that the Government are thinking of increasing their powers to a limited extent—obviously that would require funding as well. If the districts are to disappear, there should be an advanced and improved role for town councils and parish councils.

[Baroness Taylor of Stevenage (Lab)]

My noble friend makes a very good point. I have been working with the parish and town councils and their organising bodies: NALC and the society of town council treasurers. We started on a process of working out their role in this new model. I think it is a very interesting opportunity for them. I know my honourable friend in the other place is very keen on developing the role of community councils, so they definitely have a role to play in this new system.

The other exciting opportunity is for community councillors in this new picture, because they will have exciting opportunities in their local area to drive forward local issues. They will be working with one council, instead of having the split responsibilities that I have experienced during my council life in a two-tier area. So there are great opportunities for both town and parish councils and community councillors.

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP)]

My Lords, I declare my position as a vice-president of the Local Government Association. The noble Baroness, Lady Pinnock, referred to the iron grip of Whitehall. What we have here is a plan for not devolution but concentration of power, and the Statement says as much:

“the Government will have the tools to ensure delivery. We will create strong accountability measures … to ensure that mayors deliver the housing, transport and infrastructure that their residents need”.

This is explicitly a Statement making mayors the agents of the priorities of central government. If a Green Party mayor was elected with the priorities of improving the health and well-being of the population, focusing on a healthy local food supply, looking after green spaces and biodiversity, tackling poverty and inequality, particularly affecting children and pensioners, and improving local economies built around small independent businesses rather than exploitive multinational companies, would the Government then impose their priorities against those of the local people?

[Baroness Taylor of Stevenage (Lab)]

I am sorry, but I think the noble Baroness has misunderstood the wording that she just read out. The point is that the Government will set the growth agenda and say that we want every area of the country to grow, and it will be for mayors to determine how that works in their local area. She is shaking her head, but that is the idea behind the policy. The whole drive of it is that each local area will be driven by people who know it and its economy, people and communities well, and they will take forward the right proposals for growth for their area. If, for example, we look at what has happened in Manchester in terms of its transport schemes and at some of the other mayoral authorities which have developed skills programmes that are relevant to the needs of the local area, I think it is clear that those people acting at local level will best drive forward the growth of this country.

[Lord Berkeley (Lab)]

In Cornwall, we joined Durham about 15 years ago and became unitary. It was very popular because Cornwall is long and thin, and it needs a lot of different organisations and centres of districts to make it work. It has worked because there are local people in local offices as well as in the county council, but the most important thing is that, even for that to work, the Tory Administration last year decided that the leader of the council should become a mayor. We could not really work out why it was a good thing for her to become a mayor, apart from the fact that she would earn a great deal more money, but, of course, that was not very popular with the people of Cornwall. It is important that the criteria for electing mayors and the members of these new organisations are clear and concise. We can make it work, but we just have to have a few tweaks.

[Baroness Taylor of Stevenage (Lab)]

I thank my noble friend for being the champion of Cornwall and the south-west, which we are used to him doing. Cornwall does indeed have a unitary authority. It has not come forward in this round for any changes, but I know that, right across the south-west, active discussions are going on about what should happen there, and I look forward to working with them to deliver it.

I know the devolution journey is not always comfortable for politicians in Whitehall; it is not supposed to be. We are undergoing a generational power shift from Whitehall to our town halls. We have seen a huge amount of good will from Secretaries of State willing to give up newly won powers for the sake of our towns and cities. We are taking a step closer to taking back control and rebuilding our country from the ground up. I look forward to working on it.