Imports from EU to UK: Grace Period

Baroness Neville-Rolfe Excerpts

Thursday 16th September 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe (Con)]

Does the Minister realise that the grace period puts British industries at a substantial short-term disadvantage? Are there any upsides beyond those already described by my noble friend Lord Moylan? I am very glad to see that my noble friend Lord Frost is still a Minister. What diplomatic and other steps will he take to put this matter on to a more satisfactory long-term basis?

[Lord Frost (Con)]

My Lords, we are obviously in constant touch with the European Union through the institutions created in the trade and co-operation agreement and many others. We sought last year to negotiate more relaxed arrangements at the border in both directions, on food and drink and on other issues. Unfortunately, the EU was not open to that at that point, but if it were to become open to it in future, we would obviously wish to engage in that discussion. That is clear, and we will keep making that case, because we believe that it is in the interests of both parties.

Government: Leadership Training

Baroness Neville-Rolfe Excerpts

Thursday 16th September 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe (Con)]

My Lords, I congratulate my noble friend Lord Norton of Louth on this very interesting debate. My noble friend Lord Young of Cookham is right about the importance of accountancy and the dangers of transience. I rise to speak because I was both in the senior Civil Service for 14 years—much of this at its heart in the Cabinet Office and No. 10 —and a government Minister for three years, at BEIS, DCMS and the Treasury. Today, I will emphasise the importance of education and experience as well as training, the need for apposite training and the importance of diversity of thought and cost-benefit analysis.

In my experience, what happens in early life and in your career before reaching senior positions is every bit as important as any training. Even William Pitt the Younger would have struggled as Prime Minister at such a young age without his elite education. Most good Ministers have had a number of government roles on the way up, learning from discussions on Bills, in debates, from crises and how to get departments to act effectively in the desired direction. They learn leadership on the job and from effective, and ineffective, Secretaries of State.

Most leading civil servants have strong academic credentials and many years of experience in different but related roles. Many serve Ministers extremely well. Many of us will have specific examples in mind. This was the Northcote-Trevelyan model, and it is a pity that it is being steadily undermined. Most of the best Ministers are bright and educated, and they bring wider experience—for example, in the services, the law, business and so on—and not just years as spads, good though some spads definitely are. Spads’ focus is usually on their Minister’s star, not on the longer term, and their value is limited accordingly.

How can training help? Here I draw on my 15 years of experience as an executive director of Tesco, at a time when we were a growing and global business. Many were from modest backgrounds, and all shared a laser-like focus on the end goals and an ability to lead, motivate people and get them to deliver—or go elsewhere. We had good training programmes, but they were sponsored and led by the key directors, not just by the training function. Every manager helped their staff to do better where they were weak or had potential, and training was designed to help with that. We gave our teams wide discretion. We were all taught not to spend time on doing things just because we liked doing them but to delegate wherever we could and to address training needs. We cut out needless layers of management so that everyone’s jobs were more challenging and satisfying. These are not skills that you can suddenly learn when you get to the top.

My observation of Civil Service training was that it is self-selecting and that those who needed it did not get it, although they might be attending other courses that they fancied, at public expense. Training should be directed at those who need it, not at those who want it. My only training in my ministerial capacity was in dementia, which was a rather good initiative of David Cameron’s, I have to say. I also learned some excellent Dispatch Box skills from my noble friends Lord Howe and Lady Noakes.

Another problem is the prevalence of fashion in politics, which has, in my lifetime, extended down into the Civil Service. Diversity is a good example. As a woman who started her career as often the only female fast-streamer or executive in the room, I welcome aspects of diversity and have tried to help others on the way up. However, diversity of thought seems to have gone out the window as a desirable characteristic. Unfortunately, this reflects the position in even our best universities, where holding certain political opinions seems to be almost a requirement for employment. The sooner the Civil Service and universities reverse this unwelcome trend, the better. Overall, a great deal of attention is given to diversity, without dealing with this area where it is lacking: diversity of thought.

Finally, I want to make a specific point. I am well known as an enthusiastic supporter of impact assessments. The principal reason for my enthusiasm is that they enable all of us to judge the cost benefit of the action that the Government propose to take. This is the most important area of decision-making in government. The academic side of the process is well developed, and all Ministers and senior civil servants, without exception, should be properly trained in its mysteries—another one for the list of my noble friend Lord Norton. A broad cost-benefit assessment, prepared while decisions are being taken, can help a Minister and a senior civil servant to identify the likely perverse effects of a policy—one that may even end a successful career—and reach a sound conclusion.

I do not have time to deal with all the ideas outlined in the helpful Library Note. Suffice it to say that some are more realistic than others. I look forward to a further discussion with my noble friend Lord Norton.

Security of Ministers’ Offices and Communications

Baroness Neville-Rolfe Excerpts

Tuesday 29th June 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord True (Con)]

My Lords, as a Minister, I cannot comment on matters on the Parliamentary Estate, but I understand that the Lord Speaker has recently written to colleagues. This is a security breach—I repeat what I said earlier. DHSC is running an investigation, which will be done with support from the government security group and will take into account all the considerations that the noble Lord has mentioned.

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe (Con)]

My Lords, having been both a private secretary and a Minister in my time, I had always thought that the private offices were there to protect and assist Ministers. Does my noble friend find it odd that this does not seem to have applied in the office of the Secretary of State for Health?

[Lord True (Con)]

My Lords, I hear what my noble friend says. I have referred to the different bounds and responsibilities that take place within the normal life of a Minister. I am not going to comment on what may or may not have gone on within the Department of Health, not because it is not my responsibility to answer on behalf of the Government but because those matters are currently being investigated.

Finance Bill

Baroness Neville-Rolfe Excerpts

2nd reading & Committee negatived & 3rd reading
Tuesday 8th June 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe (Con)]

My Lords, it is always a pleasure to follow the perceptive remarks of the noble Lord, Lord Empey. I thank my noble friend Lord Agnew for his crisp summary of the financial situation and of the Finance Bill. I have also benefited from reading the explanation given at Second Reading by the Financial Secretary, Mr Jesse Norman, who has already been mentioned by the noble Lord, Lord Butler.

So we are well informed, but, unfortunately, the picture painted is a grim one. Pleased though we all are by our success on vaccination, I do not believe that the country has yet taken on board the full gravity of the financial situation that we face. The level of the national debt and the deficits that we continue to add to it are of a staggering dimension. It will be the work of many years to right the ship.

In case there are some who might want to claim that reducing the debt from its present size is unnecessary or can be put off to the Greek calends, I point out that the only reason why our financial response to Covid—with vast government grants and loans, furlough and all the rest of it—was feasible was because we had reduced debt as a proportion of GDP greatly since World War Two. The markets would not have accepted the levels of unfinanced expenditure that we have adopted in the last 15 months or so to deal with Covid if we had started with our present level of national debt. Everything that I say today is subject to the overriding necessity of improving the national finances. I am not sure that we, or indeed most other countries, are focusing enough on this issue.

That said, I thank the Treasury, where I served as a Minister, for the speed and creativity with which it provided support for the Covid crisis. I particularly commend the furlough scheme, although I think the rate was set too high, which will cause difficulties as it is phased out. However, the idea of using the PAYE system backwards is an excellent example of simplicity, a theme that I want to emphasise today. The aid to business, especially the simple suspension of VAT and the rates, has also shown bravery and flexibility. I hope that such imagination will now be applied to the long overdue review of rates.

The Treasury and HMRC have done well during Covid as they have been allowed to take risks and innovate. That reminds me of the wartime example of rationing. I know about this from my mother, who served on the Board of Trade in the rationing team in World War Two. In the dark days of 1941, with shipping disrupted, they were asked to extend rationing to textiles. Luckily, my mother’s boss was a clever academic from Cambridge. His idea was not to start again but to make the back pages of the food ration book into clothing coupons. Rationing came in overnight. This was an example of speed and simplicity similar to the furlough scheme.

I am extremely grateful to my noble friend Lord Bridges of Headley and his committee for a clear and compelling report on the Finance Bill, and for his new point about powers in relation to digital platforms, which might impose new burdens or costs on millions of businesses without proper scrutiny. I think that is in paragraph 125 in our fat book of Explanatory Notes.

I particularly agree with the concern that the committee expressed about the new tax checks linked to licence renewal applications for taxi drivers. This could even have the perverse effect of reducing compliance by taxi drivers nervous of the taxman. Like my noble friend, I also dislike the proposed removal of the important taxpayer safeguards in pursuing information requests. I believe the Government should think again on both points.

Ministers and civil servants do not understand how frightened people and businesses are of HMRC, how its powers to fine summarily are resented and how the complex web it spins confuses people. The lack of simple advice at the end of a phone is a real problem to the honest citizen and to the smaller enterprises that are the lifeblood of our economy. We are constantly told that stakeholders are involved in compiling the rules. Over the years, I have found this assurance less and less comforting, as most of the bodies being consulted are too similar in their thinking to that of the Treasury and HMRC.

Moreover, I was concerned to see the briefing from the Chartered Institute of Taxation, which suggested problems with the penalty provisions—see the notes on Clauses 112 and 113. These include a risk of disproportionately high penalties—so more reasons for people to be fearful. My noble friend Lord Forsyth of Drumlean is right to argue for a look at the Bill and, perhaps more importantly, the whole tax code in the spirit of simplification and, I suggest, with an eye to encouraging enterprise and SMEs.

There is a wider point that is relevant here. A book that I have been reading from our wonderful Lords Library, by Eric L Jones, suggests that the rate of economic growth back to the Middle Ages reflects, in part, the removal of institutional and environmental barriers. Examples would be the ending of tithes and the lifting of rationing. The very process of opening up fuels growth and productivity, which generates a greater tax base in turn. So I say no to licences, where they can be avoided, and to new cross-compliance, as proposed in this Bill. I add a no to the continuation of needless or new EU-based rules. On the same principles, I say yes to free ports, to the two-year super-deduction for plant and machinery investment proposed in the Bill and to the right kind of planning reform.

Probably the biggest example of new burdens on business in the Bill is the new tax on plastic packaging. I am as keen on reducing plastic packaging as anyone in this House, as my contributions in many debates have shown. However, I wonder whether all this is worth the candle, given the detail and scale of intervention involved. I doubt whether it is the best way to reduce use and encourage recycling. I recommend massive simplification. Plastics are oil-based and there may instead be a case for a simple duty like that on petrol or alcohol, albeit at a much lower level.

As my final contribution to this debate, I will mention skills, especially technical and vocational skills, which are essential for improved productivity and levelling up. We are at last making some progress in technical education, and youngsters can see that practical skills are vital and that university is not always a wise aspiration. However, from day one, the apprenticeship levy scheme has been complex and unimaginative. I know from direct experience that some businesses and organisations are not even spending their levy pot, because of these complexities.

I am glad to see the attention that the Chancellor gives to vocational skills, with well-publicised visits to talk to apprentices and online seminars. Could my noble friend, who I know is expert and sympathetic to this issue of skills, explain how the Government will improve outcomes in this vital area?

UK-EU Trade and Co-operation Agreement: Regions and Industrial Sectors

Baroness Neville-Rolfe Excerpts

Thursday 27th May 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Frost (Con)]

My Lords, I read the ONS report with interest. It confirms the position on trade, which I have set out on several occasions before: that there are a number of factors prevailing here. It is true that 2018 may well have been the last full year of normal trading conditions, but we are still in a pandemic. Economies have not returned to normal, so it is not entirely surprising that trade figures have also not returned to normal at the moment.

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe (Con)]

My Lords, perhaps the most pressing issue facing the country, other than Covid, is discerning the best way forward post Brexit, economically and in other ways. Whether drawing up an impact assessment would be the most helpful method is doubtful in this case. However, does my noble friend the Minister agree that a full evaluation of the new opportunities that he has mentioned is now essential?

[Lord Frost (Con)]

My Lords, I agree with my noble friend that there are huge opportunities from Brexit, and we are taking those forward as set out in the Government’s legislative programme: a subsidy control Bill, a procurement Bill, a National Insurance Contributions Bill, a freeports programme and so on. These are all huge opportunities. It might be premature to do an immediate evaluation of the effect of all those before they have been introduced and brought into force, but of course impact assessments will go with the necessary legislation in this area.

Financial Services Bill

Baroness Neville-Rolfe Excerpts

Report stage
Wednesday 14th April 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP) [V]]

My Lords, I welcome the government amendment in this group. We are seeing regulations catching up with financial innovation. As ever, it seems that the regulator is being forced to chase after advances that are screaming into the future with potentially very disturbing results.

However, I chiefly wish to speak to Amendment 35, in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Holmes of Richmond, and to offer my support for it, or at least for its principles. As the noble Lord said, we are talking about innovation, but innovation that is actually for the common good—innovation that works for people, and particularly, innovation that works for the most vulnerable in our society. The figures really are deeply shocking: estimates of 1 million unbanked people; 8 million people with debt problems; 9 million people with no access to mainstream credit. One thing that is not adequately recognised is the poverty premium: the fact that not having a bank account or access to mainstream credit means much higher costs for everything from utility bills to borrowing and very well documented impacts on health and wellbeing.

This seems like an apt time to ask the Government whether they have given further consideration to the recommendation from the Select Committee on Financial Exclusion, which reported in March 2017. It called for a Minister responsible for financial exclusion. Is this something that the Government are really going to focus on by means of this Bill? The noble Baroness, Lady Noakes, may have concerns about the structure of this, but the intentions of the noble Lord, Lord Holmes, are very clear. Are the Government going to take action?

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe (Con)]

My Lords, I offer a few words of caution on the subject matter of Amendment 35 in the name of my noble friend Lord Holmes of Richmond, who has done so much to promote financial and digital skills since we joined the House together in 2013. The amendment is concerned with the very real problem of the “financially excluded”, in today’s jargon. This problem is of long standing. Under the description of the poor, the New Testament informs us that “they will always be with us”, and similar quotations can be made from the Old Testament. More recently, as just mentioned by the noble Baroness, Lady Bennett, we have had good reports on the subject from our own committees.

Experience shows that another ancient saying is also relevant and helpful. I refer to the injunction on doctors when seeking to treat disease—“first do no harm”. Unfortunately, this latter injunction was not followed when the United States authorities sought to improve the lot of the financially excluded, which arguably led to the subprime crisis of 2008 in the United States, or at least made that crisis much worse than it would otherwise have been. Noble Lords will recall that, when it came to the attention of the federal authorities in the United States, some communities, called marginalised groups, received fewer house loans per head than others. The lenders concerned were threatened with prosecution under federal laws on discrimination. That was a major factor behind many subprime loans being made, which those receiving them had no real likelihood of being able to repay. Such loans were included in bundles sold to investors, which in many cases inevitably defaulted. The end result was a crisis in which some of the worst affected were those who had received the subprime loans in the first place—namely, the financially excluded, whom we are trying to help.

None of this argues against the amendment before us proposed by my noble friend Lord Holmes, although I note that my noble friend Lady Noakes has some reservations. We always need to listen to her because of her great expertise in this area. However, it shows that, in efforts to improve the lot of the financially excluded, we need to proceed with as much prudence and attention to the risks to them and more broadly, as we do in pursuing other wider objectives.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, I am delighted to support government Amendment 14, and congratulate my noble friend and the ministerial team on listening to concerns expressed across the House, and in particular, in echoing my noble friend Lord Holmes, for introducing the follow-up provisions under the affirmative procedure. I will also address, perhaps more supportively than other noble Lords, my noble friend’s Amendment 35. I must say that I am increasingly envious of my noble friend Lady Noakes and, in particular, the rather splendid account that she had previously with the Bank of England. She must be torn, not wanting to destroy her rather splendid cheque book. For security purposes, she might err on the side of caution and do so.

My noble friend Lord Holmes of Richmond has done the House a great service by raising this issue. Yes, we can debate whether it should be a Bank of England account, which I understand no longer exists; perhaps this is not the right time to revisit that. I have become increasingly concerned—as, I know, have many in consumer circles with much greater knowledge than I about this—by the way in which one’s credit score can be disadvantaged. All sorts of extraordinary things seem to be happening at the moment, without us even knowing. We are apparently encouraged to do regular credit checks; I did, and was delighted to see that on one, the Experian account, my credit score was sound. But apparently the Government have discontinued Experian, so I do not know to whom to address that in future.

This raises the issue of those who have a poor credit score and are having trouble finding a bank account. My noble friend Lord Holmes has identified the difficulties in doing so. If it is not the wish of the Government to support the terms of Amendment 35, I hope that the Minister responding to this debate will nevertheless look carefully at the circumstances by which it is becoming increasingly difficult for those with poor credit scores to access even the most basic banking services.

I understand what my noble friend Lady Noakes said about how we are coming under increasing commercial pressure to make banks’ retail services financially viable. This is causing great concern for those of us in rural areas, because it is increasingly difficult to keep small rural branches open. To me, they perform a social function as much as anything, particularly for local shops, in banking their cash, allowing them to access bank accounts and, for example, banking their money when there has been a local mart. My noble friend has identified these very real concerns and I hope that the Government look on them sympathetically.

--- Later in debate ---

Moved by

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe]

24: After Clause 40, insert the following new Clause—
“Requirement to report to Parliament on impact on businesses
The Treasury must publish an annual report on the impact of measures taken by the FCA, PRA and the Government to regulate financial services, particularly on small business, innovation and competitiveness.”

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe (Con)]

My Lords, I shall speak to my Amendment 24 on reporting. I remind the House of my interests as a director of Secure Trust Bank and Capita plc.

The amendment would require the Treasury to publish an annual report on the impact of measures taken by the FCA, the PRA or the Government to regulate financial services, with a particular focus on small business, innovation and competitiveness. While there has been a great deal of excellent discussion during the passage of the Bill on holding financial services operators to account, we can lose sight of the value of smaller operators, including those based outside London. Moreover, innovation can bring huge value to consumers: just think, in our own lives, of online banking, money transfer overseas and customer share trading. Moreover, our strained economy will not recover without a proper focus on the competitiveness of the UK’s financial sector, which provides the veins and arteries of our economy.

I know from my experience in intellectual property how valuable an annual report to Parliament of this type can be in focusing ministerial and staff attention. Writing the report is a complement to the usual in-tray, the relentless focus on short-term risk and the avoidance of political banana skins; I am afraid these often exercise public servants to the detriment of more strategic thinking, and I speak as someone who used to be one. I believe that a strategic look once a year would raise thinking above the proverbial parapet and help the financial services sector to stay ahead in the new world, but can I persuade the Minister?

I will leave others to speak to their Amendments 25 and 37, but I will say that I took some comfort from the Minister’s reply to me on impact assessments in Committee, which is why I did not retable my amendment. He confirmed that both regulators, the FCA and the PRA, have a disciplined routine and a proper approach to impact assessment, and they understand that the sunlight of transparency must shine through. What is less clear is how easy it is to access those assessments, those nuggets of judgment and estimation. Could the Minister reassure us that there will be a decent system of signalling new proposals and that PRA and FCA impact assessments will be available to Parliament, perhaps through the public websites? We need to see and understand their proposals, and we need to do that routinely if we are to exercise our parliamentary scrutiny function properly, which has been an issue of great debate throughout the passage of the Bill. I beg to move.

Amendment 25 (to Amendment 24)

Moved by

--- Later in debate ---

Amendment 25 (to Amendment 24) withdrawn.

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe (Con)]

My Lords, I thank all noble Lords who have taken part in this debate. I also thank the Minister for reminding us of the contribution of the financial services sector to our economy, and for his summary of the remit letters. I particularly thank the noble Lord, Lord Sharkey, for Amendment 25, and am grateful for the support across the House for the idea of ex-post reporting—perhaps bringing things together a little bit better than the existing system of reporting, which has been outlined, currently does.

I emphasize, however, that I am very flexible and would be happy to have a report less often than once a year. As my noble friend Lady Noakes said, that could encourage more depth. We should also look at some of the difficulties; my noble friend Lord Trenchard reminded us of collateral damage, for example in the case of MiFID.

In any annual report that the Treasury might bring forward—if we were able to persuade it—I am also content to see consumer protection considered and assessed, although it might perhaps be better as a separate report. I know from my own experience in banking that, at present, this is not the main problem area. There is, rightly, a focus by the regulator—particularly the FCA—on protecting the consumer. However, especially in the medium to longer term, other things matter as well: the buoyancy and dynamism of smaller firms; innovation—whoever its parent—and innovation in fraud, as we have been reminded; and competitiveness. They all feature in my amendment. If we fail to think about these things properly, the consumer—and consumer protection—is the loser.

Amendment 37 in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Bennett, is much broader in focus, but I think it has sparked some useful reflections about the benefits as well as the costs, about opportunity costs and indeed about how we cope with the great change in the financial services landscape brought upon us by the ups and downs of the internet.

We will come back to this in a future Bill. In that context, I would encourage the Treasury to listen to some of the things that noble Lords have said today, to be flexible and perhaps come forward with proposals that encourage these very important dynamics for the future. In the meantime, of course, I beg leave to withdraw my amendment.

Amendment 24 withdrawn.

Budget Statement

Baroness Neville-Rolfe Excerpts

Friday 12th March 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe (Con) [V]]

Although Budgets are primarily about how we raise money, the success of our Government depends on how we spend it in the interests of the country at large. There has been criticism about support for social care, so I thought I would bring some common sense and conservative observations to the matter.

The White Paper of 11 February, Integration and Innovation: Working Together to Improve Health and Social Care for All, included some important proposals. However, it does not tackle the most critical issue of the funding of social care. This is the sort of matter that one expects to see in the Red Book, perhaps in the form of insurance or a levy or in support to local government. There has been an eye-watering amount of spending on Covid and a lot of attention to climate change, yet in the medium term a decent system of social care is more important to more people than either, given the scale of the demographic time bomb that we face, mentioned by the noble Lord, Lord Macpherson, and the erosion of pension provision.

There are a number of important strands to the issue: get the bed-blockers out of our hospitals, perhaps by allowing hospitals to run care homes; support people to recover at home, using innovative digital care and home aids; encourage people to be healthy and active and to save for their old age, reducing pressure on the state; and make care homes decent, profitable businesses or attractive to well-run charities. The current system encourages elderly people to stay in the free NHS for too long, but the “working together” strategy will not deliver unless there are the right incentives.

I welcome the new measures in the Budget that help small businesses, such as the 130% capital allowance and the Help to Grow scheme for management and digital. Will these help the care home sector? Can my noble friend the Minister kindly indicate when he will be able to set out the Government’s plans for social care funding?

I end by welcoming our five new noble Lords and the new thinking that they will bring.

Financial Services Bill

Baroness Neville-Rolfe Excerpts

Committee stage & Lords Hansard
Wednesday 3rd March 2021 Grand Committee

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe (Con)]

My Lords, I have listened with great interest to some excellent contributions on this group of amendments. I refer to my own entry in the register of interests, although my comments stem from my experience over a lifetime of support for regulatory common sense as a witness of the perverse effects of well-intentioned but sometimes ill-judged regulation, sometimes added at the last minute to Bills such as this. I support proper standards and the use of whistleblowing, which is the subject of Amendments 96 and 97, in the names of the noble Baronesses, Lady Kramer and Lady Bowles. But my conclusion is that nearly all the harms articulated in the Committee today reflect a failure of enforcement by our regulators, and/or the failure of prosecuting authorities.

European Union (Future Relationship) Bill

Baroness Neville-Rolfe Excerpts

3rd reading & 2nd reading & Committee negatived & 2nd reading (Hansard) & 2nd reading (Hansard): House of Lords & 3rd reading (Hansard) & 3rd reading (Hansard): House of Lords & Committee negatived (Hansard) & Committee negatived (Hansard): House of Lords
Wednesday 30th December 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe (Con) [V]]

My Lords, I rise to welcome this Bill, and to congratulate my noble friend Lord Cavendish on his brilliant valedictory speech. We will miss him, his historical perspectives, and his love of small business.

Virtually my whole career has been spent in EU circles, either negotiating in and with it as a civil servant and later as a Minister, operating across its single market as a retailer or, most recently, sitting on the EU Committee. I love European art and culture and travelling across the continent, but the last five years have changed my view of the viability of the UK’s position within the EU.

I warmly congratulate the Prime Minister, my noble friend Lord Frost and the rest of the UK negotiating team, and I welcome the treaty and the Bill before us today. My sister reminded me yesterday that on the day after the referendum in 2016 I told her, “It has to be Boris.” I have taken that view consistently because only he had the chutzpah, the confidence and the experience of Brussels necessary to take the hard line that would convince the EU negotiators that we might really proceed with no deal on trade if what was on offer was inadequate. Only that could shift red lines crafted when we had made the catastrophic error of agreeing a schedule of talks that separated the money and Northern Ireland from the trade provisions. Even worse, the UK negotiators had to operate against a background where some UK legislators, no doubt well-intentioned but hopelessly misguided, were actively seeking to make it a legal requirement to reach agreement, thereby fundamentally undermining their own side.

The Prime Minister has been admirably honest that the deal is not perfect, with which I agree but, given the background, that ought not to be a surprise. However, overall it is in our economic and political interests, and much better than many had feared. By ending in agreement we also have the chance as a sovereign state to chart a friendly path forward with the EU once the dust settles. I can foresee—correctly, I hope—a revival of interparliamentary political dialogue with the EU, as advocated by the noble Earl, Lord Kinnoull, and of collaboration on business, economics, health, digital, creative industries and climate change. However, for the first time in 50 years, we also have a chance to forge independent relationships on those matters right around the world and to create a simpler climate of control for our entrepreneurs at home. With a successful vaccination programme and Covid behind us, we can emerge from the fog and the gloom of recent times. Opportunity knocks. Thank you, Prime Minister. You have changed the weather.

UK-EU Withdrawal Agreement

Baroness Neville-Rolfe Excerpts

Thursday 10th December 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord True (Con)]

My Lords, on the specific technical points on power of attorney and so on, I will seek very specific responses, and I undertake to write to the noble Lord on that. Obviously, the three-month grace period is to allow authorised traders—such as super- markets, but other organisations will able to partake—and their suppliers to adapt to certification requirements. Alongside that, the Trader Support Service and the movement assistance scheme will provide support across the board.

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe (Con)]

My Lords, I welcome the limited progress outlined in the Statement on arrangements for the transport of goods, food and drink across the Irish Sea and, in some cases, to or from the Irish border. This was always the job of the joint committee: “pragmatic co-operation”, in my noble friend’s words. However, I would like to know whether some trial shipments by sea and land, and by small and large business—dummy runs, if you like—using the agreed systems, the paperwork, the labelling, the VAT and the tariffs have been attempted across both borders. If so, what were the results?

[Lord True (Con)]

My Lords, so far as individual, specific, in-person dummy runs are concerned, I cannot categorically answer that, but I will find out if I can supply my noble friend with an answer. What I can assure her of is almost daily—literally daily—discussions and consideration at the highest level of the technical and specific impacts of the new regime, or regimes, that come in either on 1 January or in the course of next year. Indeed, the Government have conducted privately a number of specific exercises to test various contingencies.