Ministerial Code: Policy Announcements

Baroness Neville-Rolfe Excerpts

Wednesday 30th October 2024 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe (Con)]

Does the Minister feel any shame that the Labour Party has constantly assured the country how devoted it is to propriety and the Ministerial Code, while the Speaker of the House of Commons has rightly criticised the Government for an unparalleled breach of that code? There was a major announcement overseas last week on the fiscal rules. As we have now seen, this formed a critical part of today’s Budget, allowing a huge increase in spending. What a contrast with the Government’s previous attitude. The Government could, and I believe should, have made a Statement to Parliament on Thursday on these changes. Will the Minister, in her position at the Cabinet Office, seek to persuade her colleagues that they should abide by conventions and the rules of the code? Will she apologise now for this unfortunate breach?

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Culture, Media and Sport (Baroness Twycross) (Lab)]

My Lords, the Government take their obligations to Parliament extremely seriously. As the Minister for the Cabinet Office said in the other place yesterday, the Speaker’s comments have been heard by Ministers across government, including in this House. As for Treasury Ministers making announcements in the other place, the Chief Secretary to the Treasury made an Oral Statement to Parliament on Monday about the fiscal rules and Treasury Ministers answered questions in the other place yesterday. Today, the Chancellor set out in Parliament the full details of the Budget, which will fix the foundations of our economy. Anyone who was watching the faces of the Opposition Front Bench will know that most of the measures were clearly a surprise. The leader of the Opposition seemed particularly glum as he looked at his phone for his revised lines.

Statutory Instruments (Amendment) Bill [HL]

Baroness Neville-Rolfe Excerpts

2nd reading
Friday 18th October 2024 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe (Con)]

My Lords, I welcome the opportunity to debate this important matter. I am especially grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Thomas of Gresford, for warning me of his intention and for his clear and very amusing explanation of recent history.

I thank the other speakers, including my noble friend Lord Hunt of Wirral, the distinguished chair of our Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee, which does such a wonderful and often unheralded job in sifting through thousands of SIs, both negative and affirmative, the latter being the subject of this Bill.

I agree with the noble and learned Lord, Lord Thomas of Cwmgiedd, and the noble Lord, Lord Wallace of Saltaire, that impact assessments are important—I always used to say that from the Back Benches, as many will remember.

I welcome the noble Baroness, Lady Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent, to the Dispatch Box for the Cabinet Office and very much look forward to hearing from her.

The arguments have been well made. However, I believe that the Bill as drafted has major constitutional implications. We need to consider it very carefully and, as far as possible, in a spirit of non-partisanship. The most significant effect of the Bill if enacted is that it would leave the House of Lords with greater theoretical power than the House of Commons across significant sections of rules and regulations. Is this credible? Much as I love this House, I fear the answer is no.

I have a number of other points to make. Having lived with fellow Peers through the relentless increase in the use of secondary legislation, I have sympathy with the objectives of the noble Lord, Lord Thomas of Gresford. Under the provisions of the Bill, only the House of Lords would be capable of triggering a mechanism to amend a statutory instrument. There are no provisions in the Bill that would allow concerned MPs to instigate a change themselves. It would be decidedly odd for elected Members of Parliament to find themselves in this position of inferiority; it would undermine the primacy of the House of Commons.

The noble Lord, Lord Thomas of Gresford, claims that the provisions in the Bill, which would require the Commons to debate the concerns of the House of Lords, would ensure that the balance of power remained as it should. However, as we know, Parliament is a busy place and the House of Commons schedule is already packed. The mechanism suggested here would only add to that in an unpredictable manner.

Further, it concerns me that the Bill might enable an interventionist or troublesome House of Lords—perish the thought—to obstruct the actions of a Government by amending a succession of draft affirmative statutory instruments. While the noble Lord believes that in practice the suggested mechanism would not be used more frequently than regret Motions, there is nothing in the Bill to ensure that that is the case.

At first sight, Clause 2, which nobody has mentioned, looks unobjectionable. I do remember my fury at the business department when I inherited SIs that needed to be corrected because of typos or sloppy drafting. However, there is an unfortunate lack of precision in the Bill. What would constitute a “substantive error” as opposed to an error? I might also ask how a Minister could correct an instrument to achieve a so-called “intended effect” when he or she has no defined means of ascertaining the intention of Parliament.

I believe that the lawyers who draft statutory instruments should get them right first time—a principle of mine. It stands to reason that, should we make it easier to repair errors in secondary legislation, there would be less pressure to ensure that the initial drafting was clear and effective. Further, if it became easier to tweak secondary legislation, I believe, from my experience as both a civil servant and a Minister in many departments, including the Cabinet Office, that it would reduce the impetus to craft good primary legislation.

We have an ever-growing problem with the amount and content of secondary legislation. The noble and learned Lord, Lord Thomas of Cwmgiedd, called it an “addiction”, while the noble Lord, Lord Thomas of Gresford, rightly mentioned the Product Regulation and Metrology Bill, which will introduce huge delegated powers, including alignment with EU law, on matters of real substance. Similarly, the Water (Special Measures) Bill grants significant power to Ministers to make regulations under the legislation, and the Government expect this House to pass it without sight of the draft regulations.

We cannot allow what the Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee terms “skeleton legislation” to become the norm. We should also look back at the agriculture and environment Bills, which on our watch also overuse delegated powers, as I argued at the time. The fact is that Governments of all colours should know what they are doing when they introduce Bills and not just take wider powers to do what they like. I sound like the grandmother that I am but, when I was a civil servant, we drafted the statutory instruments alongside the legislation and consulted on them as well. A power to think again could provide yet another excuse for initial sloppiness in parent primary legislation.

For the reasons I have stated, this side of the House has doubts about the Bill. Of course, as part of comprehensive reform of the House of Lords, there might be scope for increasing a second Chamber’s control of legislation, and that could include secondary legislation. That could mean better use of the wide experience and expertise of many noble Lords. However, that is a much bigger topic, requiring widespread agreement across the political parties on the way forward. I believe we need more comprehensive reform, rather than bits and pieces—one of the reasons I regret the House of Lords (Hereditary Peers) Bill, although that is not for today.

In conclusion, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Thomas of Gresford, for leading such an important debate. However, I have outlined a number of concerns that I believe show that this particular Bill should not proceed.

Procurement Act 2023

Baroness Neville-Rolfe Excerpts

Tuesday 15th October 2024 Lords Chamber

Asked by

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe]

To ask His Majesty’s Government what plans they have to change procurement guidance and operations under the Procurement Act 2023.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Culture, Media and Sport (Baroness Twycross) (Lab)]

My Lords, the Procurement Act 2023 aims to create a simpler and more transparent regime for public sector procurement that will deliver better value for money and reduce costs for businesses and the public sector. I commend the noble Baroness on the Benches opposite for the commitment to small businesses, in particular, in the Act that she personally championed. The new regime will now go live on 24 February next year—a short delay of four months from the previous go-live date—in order to allow time for a new national procurement policy statement to be produced that clearly sets out this Government’s priorities for public procurement and economic growth.

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe (Con)]

I thank the noble Baroness for her courtesy. I remind the House that, in June, Prime Minister Starmer said that his number one mission was economic growth, so it is ironic that in addition to the Employment Rights Bill, the Government are planning to damage economic growth by delaying the Procurement Act 2023. Why are they adapting the rules on procurement to help their union paymasters and to encourage costly equality and green add-ons? My concern is the resulting red tape, which is against the direction that the Prime Minister set—yesterday he said that he wants to get rid of red tape —and which I believe will harm efficiency and the path to growth.

[Baroness Twycross (Lab)]

I absolutely and wholeheartedly refute the noble Baroness’s suggestion. I would also note that, last week, I was criticised for continuing with measures announced by the previous Government and this week I am being criticised for their delay. I hope that noble Lords from across the House agree that we should look at such matters on a case-by-case basis to ensure that this country gets back on the stable footing it needs and deserves.

Public Sector Productivity

Baroness Neville-Rolfe Excerpts

Wednesday 9th October 2024 Lords Chamber

Asked by

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe]

To ask His Majesty’s Government what steps they are taking to improve productivity across the public sector.

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe (Con)]

My Lords, you might say that securing growth in productivity is the most important issue we face—it is certainly the most important economic issue. This is because in the long run the overall rate of growth in productivity is reflected in the rate of growth in the economy, and from economic growth virtually everything else flows. We are debating public sector productivity today, but many of the same problems are found in the private sector.

I acknowledge that there are a few utopians who might think that this is a mercenary view of life, but a very large majority of us want to be better off personally and to benefit from improvements in the provision of public services—education, transport, healthcare and defence, for example. Better services need money, and a bigger economy provides more money via taxes. The best measure of our economic prosperity is probably GDP per head, and on this the recent history is disquieting. GDP per head in the UK has scarcely risen since the start of the financial crisis in 2007 and it is among the worst in the OECD.

It reflects the fact that productivity suffered a huge hit during the financial crisis, partly because of the importance of financial services to the UK economy. After a modest recovery, matters deteriorated again during Covid. As the IMF said in May:

“Although the UK has done better than peers in terms of total hours worked, the drop in labor productivity growth, the key driver of living standards—from around 2 percent pre-GFC to around ½ percent thereafter—has been noticeably bigger than in other advanced economies”.


Although the IMF refers to labour productivity rather than productivity, the two measures are closely related.

Part of our problem is cultural. Many—probably most—of us do not think of efficiency much of the time. In particular, there is a wilful disregard in the body politic for the costs of bureaucracy and monitoring. Like other noble Lords, I take part in the debates in this House on legislation. I have taken careful note in recent years and I regret to say that virtually every amendment to a Bill that we discuss would, if accepted, have the effect of increasing the cost of doing things, reduce efficiency and/or hit growth and dynamism. SIs and guidance can be even worse. Do noble Lords pause to consider whether the cost of the amendments they advocate is proportionate to the benefit hoped for? I fear the answer is often no.

The truth is that much of what government does affects the private sector, so the public sector contributes in two ways to the productivity problem: in what it does to others, such as in the huge build-up of financial, energy and environmental legislation in recent years, and in what it does in the way it organises itself.

We need to limit our interventions to matters where it is really needed, such as safety. We have too big a rulebook and that means a bigger, less efficient state. We need to change the culture. If I were put in charge, I would require a new productivity and growth assessment, like the equality assessment, on every proposal for a new policy, an SI or a Bill. Indeed, it should replace the equality assessment, which has had its day. Productivity assessments could be short, but a requirement for them would make our civil servants and lawmakers view changes through productivity spectacles. I would be interested in the Minister’s thoughts on this. It could make her and her Treasury colleagues new allies in the pursuit of value for money.

I am afraid that the figures for public sector productivity are even less positive than those for overall productivity. As the graph in the excellent Library Note makes clear, public sector productivity is significantly lower than in 1997, with the modest increase in the 2010s entirely eliminated by Covid and with the NHS a particular concern. I look forward to hearing from the noble Lord, Lord Patel, on what can be done. I believe working from home has also been a productivity sapper, with almost comic inefficiencies. As we heard from Guy Adams of the Mail recently, only 17% of the Business and Trade civil servants were coming in to work in their glorious Old Admiralty Building.

What else can be done? I am leaving to one side the obvious points, such as improved skills and education and the timely application of capital, so that I can make less obvious points from my own experience in business, the Civil Service and as a Minister in four departments, including the Treasury.

The first change needed is better management. The public sector needs fewer layers with simpler, flatter structures and wider spans of control. In the Cabinet Office when I was a Minister, one-third of staff were one on one. Government is also top-heavy. When I was at Tesco, I noticed that our considerable success was achieved without the CEO having a large private office staffed by people with their own agendas. This helped with clear focus and direction and a deep understanding of the business. It also limited the office politics. The contrast with Downing Street could hardly be greater.

I come back to the management of the public sector. There is a need for focus, which I think the Government are seeking with their new missions, but also for more delegation. For example, the Institute for Government has found that allowing nurses to self-roster reduces turnover. Other key areas where the public sector could learn from commerce are to mandate more comprehensive induction training for outsiders, who often fail in the Civil Service but bring vital skills, and training on easing out poor performers fairly. This seems likely to be even harder under Labour’s new employment rights Bill.

We also need a culture and working methods that help us to avoid mistakes. This includes both big things, such as HS2, the failings of the Post Office, and infected blood, and smaller things, such as letting some of the wrong people out of prison last month or setting the heating systems incorrectly in public buildings. We need to learn how to get things right first time because it avoids waste and mistakes. AI is making that easier—for example, on diagnostics from hospital scans. Equally, in my book it is okay to take risks and fail, but only if you learn from the experience. At the top of Tesco, we spent a lot of time in stores modestly carrying out routine tasks, observing what went wrong and seeing how policies and retail productivity could be improved.

We have a very big canvas for improvement. A recent paper by the University of Exeter Business School discusses the fact that virtually the same services were and are provided in similar NHS organisations and how this duplication allowed substantial efficiency improvements to be identified and made, amounting to £1 billion. The authors argue persuasively that the same approach could be used elsewhere in the thousands of organisations in the public sector. It is a great pity that, in awarding £9.4 billion to the public sector in above-inflation pay rises, the Government failed to impose productivity requirements on public sector workers. I know from experience that restrictive practices are hard to tackle and easier to remove with the warmth of a pay rise.

Public policy also effects productivity in the private sector. I said earlier that legislation often includes measures which reduce productivity unnecessarily. I turn to another current example: net zero. A lot can be done with small steps that have wide application, such as the transition to LED bulbs and putting porches on to retail stores, which quickly pay for themselves in lower energy bills. However, some of the measures to counter global warming now being taken by this Government—in particular, shutting the North Sea early—will hasten net zero neither in the UK nor globally. It will, however, ensure that the UK’s net exports are reduced, and it will reduce overall UK productivity, thereby making us all poorer, most notably the workers on oil rigs, as their trade union has pointed out. This is all for no rational reason. Public regulation will have reduced the productivity of the private sector and made it more difficult to deliver the growth and wealth we need for the future.

Improving productivity is a subject I feel passionate about because it can unlock great benefits. To be honest, it is rather a big subject for a short debate, but I am very keen to hear other ideas, build up alliances and ensure that the need to increase productivity is properly considered in all public sector decisions. I thank all those who are kind enough to speak and especially look forward to hearing from our new Minister.

Public Procurement: Data Offshoring

Baroness Neville-Rolfe Excerpts

Tuesday 8th October 2024 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Twycross (Lab)]

I can give a bit more detail on what the Bill will focus on. I cannot give a precise date for when it will be brought forward, but it was in the King’s Speech, so we can anticipate it coming forward in due course in the relatively near future. The Bill will make crucial updates to the legacy regulatory framework by expanding the remit of regulation, putting regulators on a stronger footing and mandating increased incident reporting, which will give the Government better data on cyberattacks, including where companies or organisations have been held to ransom.

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe (Con)]

My Lords, the new Procurement Act will bring more transparency and new entry into contracting, which will help with these kinds of outsourcing and security issues. Will the Minister ensure that the disappointing delay in the commencement of that Act into next year is minimised? In the meantime, will the model services contracts that she mentioned ensure that patient data is kept in the UK or in a country with which we have a robust data- sharing agreement?

Bus Fares: National Cap

Baroness Neville-Rolfe Excerpts

Monday 7th October 2024 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Blake of Leeds (Lab)]

I thank my noble friend for that suggestion. I will certainly pass it on to the department for consideration.

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe (Con)]

Can the Minister confirm that there are no plans to take away special arrangements for elderly passengers on buses or other forms of transport?

Whitehall: Prioritising Performance

Baroness Neville-Rolfe Excerpts

Tuesday 10th September 2024 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Twycross (Lab)]

This is not an issue that I have got specific details on. I will go back and ask about it, but I assume that this would have been subject to a pretty rigorous procurement process.

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe (Con)]

My Lords, the Reform report feels HR led. While I agree with some of the recommendations, for example on the induction of outsiders, I know from my experience in business, as well as in Whitehall, that this is not the route to success. In a sense, the fewer HR directors there are, the better the policy and outcomes. What the report does not bring out is that public sector performance has been very disappointing in certain areas, particularly following Covid. Important services like probate, driving tests, property registration and tax collection are all lamentably slow. This is in stark contrast to the private sector, where you go bust if you do not serve the customer and manage well; you will not be sustained. In that context, does the Minister agree that rewarding the public sector with a huge pay rise and bigger pensions, without any link to productivity improvement, has been a real missed opportunity? This is the chance we have to help the public services, which I very much support, to improve themselves.

[Baroness Twycross (Lab)]

I previously quoted the report as saying that the Civil Service brand is “battered”, and part of our reset as a new incoming Government must be to reset the relationship between the politicians and civil servants. All of us fortunate enough to come on to the Front Bench have been incredibly well supported over recent weeks and months by the Civil Service. I also do not think we should get into a battle about private sector good or private sector bad, or public sector good or public sector bad—that does not serve any of us well.

Horseracing and Bloodstock Industries

Baroness Neville-Rolfe Excerpts

Monday 29th July 2024 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Twycross (Lab)]

I am aware of the difference between how different countries administer this. As I mentioned in my response to the noble Baroness, Lady Harding, the previous Government undertook a review that concluded only in April. It is too soon for us to comment on that process, but I am very keen to work with all parties and explore all the evidence before setting out next steps.

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe (Con)]

It is good to see a fair degree of agreement across the House that horseracing is very important. There are 4.8 million racegoers, and there is support right across the country, including from Her Majesty Queen Camilla and Lady Starmer. Does the Minister accept that the sport is disadvantaged? The competitiveness issue has been raised relative to France and Ireland on prize money, but it is also relative to Ireland in support for its bloodstock industry. How do the Government plan to remedy the situation, and is it possible for us to have a timetable?

[Baroness Twycross (Lab)]

As I have said to other questions from noble Lords, the previous Government undertook a review that concluded only in April. I am committed to working with noble Lords across the House to make sure that we get the right arrangements for the industry and the levy is administered efficiently to best support racing. It is too soon, however, for me to commit to the shape of future policy.

Global IT Outage

Baroness Neville-Rolfe Excerpts

Thursday 25th July 2024 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Twycross (Lab)]

The noble Lord raises critical issues, a number of which will be covered by the cybersecurity and resilience Bill. I would welcome the opportunity to discuss these issues with him further.

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe (Con)]

I warmly welcome the noble Baroness to her new role and look forward to working with her on the Bill she mentioned. This serious incident affected operations not only in the UK but right around the world. It appears that the system we had set up—co-ordination, monitoring, business continuity and back-up, which we heard about from the noble Lord, Lord Harris—worked well. Does the Minister agree that this area is about defending national assets and is likely to be increasingly important as the cyber and tech threat grows? Should it not therefore be a government priority?

[Baroness Twycross (Lab)]

I thank the noble Baroness for her question and her openness and engagement with me when she was a Minister. Her passion for improving resilience was clear in how she carried out the role. This is definitely a central concern of the incoming Government, which is why we introduced the cybersecurity and resilience Bill in the King’s Speech. I look forward to discussing that further with her and other noble Lords from around the House as it progresses through the legislative process.

Procurement Regulations 2024

Baroness Neville-Rolfe Excerpts

Tuesday 21st May 2024 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe]

That the draft Regulations laid before the House on 25 March be approved.

Relevant document: 21st Report from the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee. Considered in Grand Committee on 20 May.

Motion agreed.