Local Government Finance Bill

Baroness Lister of Burtersett Excerpts

Tuesday 16th October 2012 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Baroness Lister of Burtersett]

102: Clause 9, page 5, line 34, at end insert—
“( ) In exercising its powers under subsection (2)(b), the authority must have regard to the impact of the scheme on carers in the area.”

[Baroness Lister of Burtersett]

My Lords, the purpose of this amendment is to ensure that carers are included in the list of classes of persons considered to be in financial need for the purposes of drawing up council tax discount schemes. They were described as vulnerable people in the guidance issued by DCLG in May 2012, Localising Support for Council Tax: Vulnerable People—Key Local Authority Duties. That document states:

“The Government has been clear that, in developing local council tax reduction schemes, vulnerable groups should be protected”.

The impact assessment, as one would expect, refers to carers as one of these vulnerable groups, yet the guidance on vulnerable people does not mention them.

When I raised this issue in Grand Committee, I was not able to get a satisfactory explanation for this discrepancy and for why a group with special needs that is currently recognised in the council tax benefit scheme is now being ignored. In our first exchanges on the issue, the noble Earl, Lord Attlee, simply said:

“The guidance is not exhaustive”,

and that a,

“competent local authority will take the needs of carers into account. Why would a local authority not? That is part of its duties”.

The whole point is that the guidance does not currently spell that out as part of its duties. I quite accept that the guidance will not be exhaustive but I am sure that noble Lords will agree that it is strange to exclude this important group who, as that Minister himself accepted,

“provide a vital role in society”.—[Official Report, 16/7/12; cols. GC 38-39.]

Given the financial pressures that local authorities will be under, is it realistic to think that having worked their way through the vulnerable groups listed—if indeed they do that—many local authorities will then say, “Let’s see if there are any other vulnerable groups we should be taking into account”? Carers UK has pointed out that in Hertfordshire, for example, of the 10 district councils there only one is proposing specifically to protect carers. It says:

“Our existing experience of councils recognising carers around Council Tax discounts and reductions is also not good”.

That does not exactly inspire confidence.

When we came back to it in Grand Committee the noble Baroness, Lady Hanham, responded:

“The difficulty is that once you include carers, you have to include a whole lot of other people, which reduces the discretion”.—[Official Report, 19/7/12; col. GC 177.]

Leaving aside the fact that the whole guidance is discretionary anyway, a whole lot of other groups are already included and I am not aware of any calls for any further groups to be added to the list. Having made no progress in Committee, I subsequently e-mailed the noble Baroness to point out that the draft care and support Bill, which had been published while the Grand Committee was sitting, will place a new duty on local authorities to meet carers’ eligible needs for support. The Care Minister has been quoted as explaining that the care and support Bill puts carers,

“right at the heart of the system”.

Well, they are currently right at the margins of the council tax discount scheme.

In a letter in response to my e-mail, the noble Baroness said that she would now discuss the issue with the Department of Health, suggesting that,

“we could, perhaps, draw local authorities’ attention to this Bill (though not as an existing statutory duty)”.

I am grateful to the noble Baroness for her helpful response. This is really a probing amendment, designed to elicit what progress has been made and to reinforce the case for ensuring that carers’ needs are properly taken into account under the localisation of council tax support. As noble Lords will be aware, these needs are significant. To take just one recent survey carried out by YouGov for the Carers Trust, as reported in the Independent:

“Britain’s army of unpaid carers are isolated, depressed, physically exhausted and broke as they struggle to cope with caring for sick and disabled relatives without adequate support”.

Some 60% of those polled reported,

“mental health problems due to the strain of caring and juggling other responsibilities”.

I fear that if they now have to find money for their council tax, that could be the straw that breaks the carers’ backs. I hope therefore that the Minister will be able to bring positive news about the outcome of her discussions with the Department of Health. I beg to move.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Lister of Burtersett]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for moving perhaps an inch further along, even if it is not quite as far as I would have hoped. We have heard that the transitional grant is for only a year and has all sorts of strings attached to it. It does not provide an answer but it will at least provide some authorities with a breathing space. Could the Minister keep this issue on the agenda and not lose sight of the needs of carers? As the scheme develops over the next year, perhaps this could be returned to. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment 102 withdrawn.