Environment and Climate Change Committee Report: An Extraordinary Challenge: Restoring 30 per cent of our Land and Sea by 2030

Baroness Hayman of Ullock Excerpts

Wednesday 11th September 2024 Grand Committee

[Lord Blencathra (Con)]

My Lords, in standing in for my noble friend Lord Roborough, who could not be present at the start of this debate, I must tell the Committee that the last time I clutched a Dispatch Box desperately seeking inspiration was Thursday 20 March 1997. I was the last Conservative Minister to answer a departmental Question at 3.15 pm, immediately followed by John Major answering his last PMQs, and then we prorogued for the general election. Some 28 years later I am an example of His Majesty’s policy of patching up and mending old things, and putting them to work again.

I need to declare my interests as on the register but to go further too. I remain for the next three months the deputy chair of Natural England. I have checked with the clerks and, while I can talk factually about nature, Natural England, this report and the last Government’s response, under the Addison rule I cannot speak officially for Natural England, nor answer questions about its activities or advocate its policies—only the Minister can do that. Because of my position in Natural England, I am automatically on the Joint Nature Conservation Committee, so I leave it to the Minister to say what a brilliant job we are doing in Natural England.

I welcome the Minister to her post. There is no one better on the Labour Benches in the Lords to do it, and she is an excellent addition to the Defra ministerial team.

I commend the noble Baroness, Lady Parminter, and all the noble Lords who conducted the 30 by 30 inquiry, on their recommendations. I also commend the 16 noble Lords who have spoken today. They made excellent points, including in the superb speech by my noble friend Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park, who is welcome to take this seat back any time he likes.

A lot has happened since the report was published in July 2023, and not just the change of Government. Noble Lords have read the last Government’s response, and in the changed circumstances I see no point in rehashing it all today. The report called for national parks to be given a new statutory duty to protect nature, and Section 245 of the Levelling-up and Regeneration Act imposed a new duty to do just that; I hope that my noble friend Lord Harlech will be reassured by that. As I recall, that was the Lord Randall amendment in the Lords.

The report called for local nature recovery strategies to be given statutory underpinning in local development plans. Schedule 7 to the levelling-up Act did that; I believe that was the Baroness Parminter amendment. On SSSIs, I say to my noble friend Lord Harlech that Natural England has now moved fully to assessing the condition of SSSI features at the site scale, and the focus is on bringing SSSI condition assessments up to date and in line with the EIP target to complete this by the end of January 2028—although that is highly dependent on not cutting Natural England’s grant in aid.

Natural England is also progressing the EIP target to have action under way and on track by January 2028, which will bring 50% of SSSI features into favourable condition. Natural England is continuing to look for improvements in the approach to monitoring —to make more use of modern technology, such as earth observation, to increase the contribution of participatory science, and to utilise condition assessments gathered by third parties, such as ENGOs, which my noble friend Lord Lucas called for—and we aim to grow that.

I say to the noble Baroness, Lady Young of Old Scone, that I have been involved in about six new SSSI designations or extensions. They may not be many in number but two were absolutely massive, including a large one down in west Cornwall—which was slightly controversial—and another large one near RAF Fairford and the waterworks around there.

The report underplays the role played by national nature reserves, which I argue are a legitimate component of other effective conservation measures. I submit that the country’s NNRs meet the OECM criteria defined in CBD 15 and in the Government’s nature recovery Green Paper. There are currently 221 national nature reserve sites, which comprise 110,000 hectares or 427 square miles. That is 0.85% of England’s area. Natural England manages 134, the Wildlife Trusts 50, the National Trust 20, local authorities 29 and the RSPB, National Parks, other NGOs and other government agencies 34.

Let me cite a superb example: the new, supersized Purbeck Heaths NNR announced in 2020. Seven organisations manage it: Natural England, the National Trust, the RSPB, the Amphibian and Reptile Conservation Trust, the Dorset Wildlife Trust, Forestry England and the Rempstone Estate. The new NNR is larger than the original NNR, which was 996 hectares—it is now 3,331 hectares, a 234% increase. It is better, as it is increasing biodiversity and creating a more dynamic and resilient landscape, and it is more joined up, as it has a huge continuous grazing area and landscape-scale objectives.

Another excellent example is the Somerset Wetlands “super” NNR which links up six pre-existing national nature reserves on the Somerset Levels and Moors. It is managed in partnership by Natural England, the Environment Agency and five other NGOs. The crucial point is that some say NNRs should not be included in the OECM category nor count towards 30 by 30, since they are not statutorily protected—but that is a feeble point. These organisations are all approved by Natural England to manage reserves properly and bring about species recovery and conservation. Thus, I say to the Minister that they should be included as part of our 30 by 30 targets, since they may be managed by other effective means, as my noble friend Lord Lucas pointed out.

Finally on national nature reserves, paragraph 83 of the report said:

“We recommend that the Government enable and resource Natural England to develop and publicise accessible digital and offline tools and communications to enable members of the public to learn about and engage with their local protected areas”.


I agree entirely but, before doing so, we need to sort out proper online publicity for the 134 national nature reserves run by Natural England. I invite everyone, including the Minister, to search “visit a national nature reserve” on Google. Up will pop some very sexy sites with superb photos, but they are all from the National Trust, the RSPB, the Wildlife Trusts and NNRs run by similar organisations. Down that list somewhere will be a GOV.UK site called “National Nature Reserves in England”. Click on that and it will reveal 11 regional categories. Click on “North West NNRs” and it will reveal seven more categories. If the Minister clicks on “Cumbria”, that will list 37 NNRs—without a single map to help you. If she clicks on “Bassenthwaite Lake”, she will get this:

“The reserve is a shallow, balanced nutrient lake in the north-west of the Lake District. Main habitats: open water”.


To paraphrase Bob Geldof, is that it? It is the most beautiful landscape—after Ullswater and Blencathra, of course—and there is not a single photo of it, nor of any other national nature reserve, featured on GOV.UK. No wonder the NNRs managed by the other organisations have five times the visitor numbers. We all want people to access nature for the benefits it brings to health. I hope the Minister will have far more success than I have had over the last six years trying to get a dedicated site for national nature reserves, rather than buried in the bowels of GOV.UK.

The report, in paragraphs 73 to 75, urges the Government to prioritise working with the overseas territories. As the Minister will know, 94% of the United Kingdom’s biodiversity is not in Great Britain and Northern Ireland but in our 14 overseas territories, their unique islands and their 6.4 million square kilometres of ocean. The Darwin Plus scheme applies to our OTs.

I was the Minister way back at the first Earth Summit in 1992 in Rio, which launched the Darwin Initiative. I must admit, as a new, five week-old Environment Minister, I had not a clue what I was launching. I read the brief and had no idea how successful the scheme would turn out to be. Now, the Government have funded over 1,275 projects at a cost of £230 million, achieving both biodiversity conservation and multi- dimensional poverty reduction. Twelve years ago, I worked with our overseas territories for a few years and saw at first hand the splendid work the Joint Nature Conservation Committee did in our OTs and how the OTs desperately wanted more JNCC input, if only it could afford it.

Minister, it is an easy and impressive win for us in here in the United Kingdom to support the Blue Belt programme and the overseas territories biodiversity strategy being worked up at this precise moment by the JNCC and Defra. The JNCC has also done work on creating blue finance criteria, so that companies can invest in nature recovery projects in our United Kingdom’s oceans and our overseas territories’ seas and know that it is not genuine and not bluewashing.

The report made some very important recommendations on marine monitoring, and discussing all the implications could be a full day’s debate in itself. The last Government’s response pointed to the targets in the EIP and said that monitoring is very complex. Indeed it is. Natural England identified our marine protected areas in just 10 years. That was a splendid achievement, but identifying and designating them is one thing; managing them is another. All of us here can stand on a piece of land and have a fair idea of what it is, its condition and what we think we would like to do to improve it, but we can stand at the edge of the ocean and we have not got a clue what is happening under the surface. If we cannot measure it, we cannot manage it.

All I can say today is that I encourage the Government to step up all marine monitoring efforts, which are essential for biodiversity and carbon capture and form part of our 30 by 30 target. I agree entirely with my noble friend Lord Caithness, the noble Baronesses, Lady Boycott and Lady Jones of Moulsecoomb, and my noble friend Lord Banner, on bottom trawling. I have been deeply involved in all this for the last six years and, as your Lordships know, I can bore for England—or Natural England—on it, but let me give some general observations and advice to the Minister, if I may be so impertinent.

Much of the Government’s growth talk has been about building houses, and more houses are urgently needed. I accept that not all so-called green-belt land is sacrosanct and there are poorer bits which can be built on, but genuine high-quality green belt must be protected. Growth and nature are not exclusive; they are complementary. If the Government build houses on grey belt land, they must ensure that there is green space right around them for gardens, space for nature and rewilding, tree-lined streets and not just a token little green park 15 minutes away. I agree with my noble friend Lord Gascoigne, who made that exact same point. Nature recovery is essential in our towns and cities, not just the countryside.

On the countryside, I appeal to the Minister to maintain the £2.4 billion expenditure on ELMS and innovation grants. Farmers are key to nature recovery, as well as producing the food we need.

My main disagreement with my noble friend Lord Banner is that, in my experience farmers excel with carrots rather than sticks. I hope the Government will take on board the points made about tenant farmers by my noble friends Lady Rock and Lady McIntosh of Pickering.

Also, Minister, please get the message across to all those doing big infrastructure projects to consult Defra’s arm’s-length bodies, including Natural England, at a very early stage to look at what protected species might be affected. Workarounds can then be done in the early stages, but if they wait until the bulldozers are about to demolish the bat roosts, the ancient woodlands or the Ramsar sites, then delays will occur—delays caused not by the intransigence of Defra’s arm’s-length bodies but by the law.

Over the last few years, the Forestry Commission, the Environment Agency and Natural England have liaised to increase co-operative working on the ground. That makes sense. If we are to deliver 30 by 30, then we have to work together. If, for example, we look at a river catchment area, the Environment Agency will have a view on river flows and dredging, the Forestry Commission will have a view on what trees should be planted on the banks or nearby and Natural England will have a view on what other flora and fauna, such as beavers or voles, could be present. By co-operating, we get the best possible solutions to reduce flooding, increase woodland and recover nature and wildlife, and that will help deliver 30 by 30. Working together would assist in removing the uncertainty that concerned the noble Earl, Lord Devon. My plea to the Minister is that all the Ministers, in the Commons and here, and the directorates in Defra collaborate in the way that the three ALBs I mentioned are collaborating on the ground at operational level.

As the Government look to create three new national forests and nine new river footpaths, deliver the best possible nature recovery programmes in ELMs and revise their EIP targets, can we ensure, for example, that the forests link in with existing SSSIs, national nature reserves or landscape recovery projects to create wildlife corridors which are more joined up and protected, as my noble friend Lord Gascoigne suggested? Our national forests could also be part of our 30 by 30 targets, as well as the ELM and landscape recovery schemes, provided they meet the criteria. The take-up of schemes for landscape recovery has been incredibly excellent and is beginning to make a real difference for nature recovery: that is farmers volunteering to farm for food and nature. A time may soon come when these could also be included in our 30 by 30 target, provided that they meet the quality thresholds.

Let me conclude on this note: the one area where the Government cannot blame the Tories—

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Baroness Hayman of Ullock) (Lab)]

Is there just one?

[Lord Blencathra (Con)]

There is more than one, but one area is our Environment Act, which has given us the tools for nature recovery for the first time in our history. I invite all colleagues to look at Sections 98 to 116, which include “Biodiversity gain”, the “duty to conserve and enhance” nature, “Local nature recovery strategies”, “Species conservation strategies”, “Protected site strategies”, controlling tree felling and “Habitats Regulations”. Add in “Conservation Covenants” in Part 7 and the ELM schemes from the Agriculture Act and we have the greatest raft of measures for nature recovery that this country has ever seen. As nature recovers in those areas, then they can become protected and could qualify for 30 by 30. I suggest to the noble Baroness, Lady Jones of Moulsecoomb, that these powers are better than the new commission she suggested, but I do wish her a speedy recovery for her trusty right boot, provided it is not used on me.

Indeed, the Labour manifesto, on page 58, calls it “our Environment Ac.t” I did not expect it to say, “Michael Gove’s brilliant Environment Act”, but what I take from that wording is that they will tweak the EIP targets and tweak some other things, but they will not undermine the excellent new levers in our Environment Act. Let us use every lever in that Act, not just to bend the curve on nature loss, but to achieve real, sustained and progressive recovery of nature in this country.

[Baroness Hayman of Ullock (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Parminter, for securing today’s debate and for her excellent chairmanship of the committee, which came out with this excellent report. I thank all members of the Environment and Climate Change Committee for their work. This has been an excellent and important debate. This is an area in which is challenging to move forward, and it is something that we need to get a grip on.

I thank noble Lords who have kindly welcomed me today and over the past few weeks. People have been generous and supportive, and I appreciate it very much. It is genuinely an honour to hold this position, following the example of the noble Lord, Lord Goldsmith, sitting opposite. I welcome the noble Lord, Lord Blencathra, to his role. As I am going to have to follow him in every single debate, it could be quite fun.

The report represents a wealth of expertise and insights into the state of nature in this country and offers many valuable recommendations on how we can make the changes that we need to rise to what the report calls “an extraordinary challenge”. I assure noble Lords that this Government are committed to charting a new course and ensuring that nature is truly on the road to recovery.

The Secretary of State has confirmed the Government’s intention to launch a rapid review of the Environmental Improvement Plan, to make sure it is fit for purpose so that it will deliver on our ambitious targets, including 30 by 30. We therefore think that this debate and consideration of the recommendations in the committee’s report are very timely. We want to make sure that those recommendations are properly considered as we carry out the work of the review of the EIP. While this work is clearly newly under way—we are a very new Government—I will do my best to address and respond to the points raised during the discussion as best I can.

As we have heard clearly today, our biodiversity is in crisis. Without nature we have no economy, no food, no health and no society. However, we now stand at a moment in time when nature needs us to defend it. Critical to those efforts is what we have been debating today: the 30 by 30 target to protect 30% of land and sea by 2030. As we have heard, it was the UK’s international leadership that helped to secure a global 30 by 30 target at the UN biodiversity summit in December 2022. I thank the noble Lord, Lord Goldsmith, for keeping going on this issue until he achieved it. What is the word I am looking for? Persistence, that is the word. Of course, he was supported in that by the noble Lord, Lord Benyon, and others. Their leadership made an ambitious commitment here in the UK, which we have to deliver on land and at sea.

Targets are meaningless if you do not actually deliver them, so I am pleased that the new Labour Government have renewed that commitment, and we are now focusing on how we can deliver it for the long term. That will be critical to supporting our wider priorities, including cleaner rivers, lakes and seas—the first of two water Bills will be coming shortly—and boosting food security; we have heard about farming. Those priorities also include protecting communities from the dangers of flooding and delivering our legally binding environmental targets.

With just over five years remaining until 2030, we are rapidly approaching the halfway point of this decade, yet unfortunately we are still one of the most nature-depleted countries in the world. That is why I am grateful for the contributions today; they are valuable in helping to inform how we move forward.

What is clear is the sheer scale of the extraordinary challenge we are facing. We have not yet seen the urgent step change that the report rightly calls for. Achieving 30 by 30 will require a clear vision and a delivery strategy to drive the urgent progress we need, but one that draws on the work already taking place across government and beyond. The 30 by 30 programme is about bringing these efforts together to ensure that more nature recovery actions have a lasting long-term legacy.

Importantly, it is also about collaboration between and right across sectors. The Government intend to take immediate action to realise the urgent step change needed, and are currently in the process of reviewing our approach. Later this year we hope to confirm the criteria for land that counts towards 30 by 30 in England in order to set a clear and ambitious standard to ensure that only areas that are effectively conserved and managed can contribute towards the commitment. In addition to confirming the criteria, later this year we will begin piloting the process for recognising land that already meets those criteria.

Building on the committee’s recommendations, that will help us to develop a process to identify land beyond protected areas that meets the 30 by 30 criteria and can be formally recognised as other effective area-based conservation measures, as was mentioned in the debate. These areas represent a unique opportunity to take a more inclusive approach and recognise where nature is being effectively protected outside of those designated sites. We desperately need a clear strategy to chart our course to meeting that target, and it is important that we continue to drive that work forward. This includes ensuring that our protected areas are delivering as they should be for nature.

Our national parks and national landscapes and the Broads—collectively, our protected landscapes—are extremely special places. We know that they cover nearly one-quarter of England and contain around half of England’s priority habitats, but we also know that they continue to suffer the effects of climate change and biodiversity loss. The noble Baroness, Lady Jones, mentioned Windermere and pollution. This is clearly an area that we have to tackle quickly, which is why we are prioritising our water Bill. We are committed to ensuring that these iconic landscapes become wilder and greener and deliver a significant contribution towards the 30 by 30 target in England.

At sea, the Government have taken significant steps to protect our marine environment. We have 181 marine protected areas, including three highly protected marine areas, and as a priority we need to work out how we are going to properly provide protection for them.

The noble Baroness, Lady Boycott, and others talked about bottom trawling. I assure noble Lords that we think it is extremely concerning and we understand its negative impacts. Our marine regulators have assessed all fishing activities on the protected species and habitats in our MPAs and identified bottom-towed fishing as a major pressure, so it is very much on our agenda. To support our 30 by 30 target, the Marine Management Organisation has introduced by-laws, which we heard about from the noble Baroness, Lady Boycott, to restrict the use of bottom-towed gear over sensitive habitats. More recently, in March the MMO introduced a new by-law restricting the use of bottom-towed gear over rock and reef habitats in 13 MPAs. That means that around 60% of our marine protected areas are now protected by by-laws that limit the use of damaging fishing gear used for bottom trawling. We are pushing that further and continuing to work on strengthening protections. Evidence was gathered last year on the impacts of fishing on seabed sediments, and further by-laws are being produced for consultation. So I assure noble Lords that we are taking the issue seriously and moving forward on it.

We are aiming for 48% of marine protected species and habitats to reach a healthy state by 2028, with the remainder in recovering condition. Natural England and the JNCC are developing an MPA monitoring strategy.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Hayman of Ullock (Lab)]

I will try to remember where I was and what I was talking about. Oh yes—I was making lots of promises, was I not?

I talked about the fact that we are developing an MPA monitoring strategy in order to address progress on marine areas. We want to deliver this in March 2028, basically to make sure that we are making continuous progress in this area.

I turn to the specific points made in the debate; if I miss any questions, I will of course write to noble Lords afterwards. I just want to confirm that, later this year, we will confirm the criteria for land counting towards 30 by 30 in England; that was raised by a few people.

The requirement for long-term protection is one issue that was raised; clearly, it is really important. We know that committing land to long-term management can be an extremely challenging prospect for landowners, even those who want to deliver and work for nature conservation; we know that this has been hampered by short-term funding cycles and management agreements. What we are actively doing at the moment is considering the committee’s recommendation, as we review our approach to achieving 30 by 30, to ensure that we establish the most appropriate timescales for the long term and support people who want to work to that.

A number of noble Lords asked about SSSIs. In particular, my noble friend Lady Young of Old Scone talked about the importance of how they are counted, while the noble Baroness, Lady Parminter, talked about the quality of SSSIs being of critical interest and importance. We recognise the committee’s recommendation that, in order to count towards 30 by 30, they have to be in good condition. We are looking at how we can reflect the condition of SSSIs in our approach.

The noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh, asked specific questions regarding Natural England’s resources. Some of them were quite complex, so we will write to her with the detail.

The monitoring of protected sites also came up. The noble Lord, Lord Banner, asked about monitoring, as did my noble friend Lord Whitty, who is no longer in his place. The environmental improvement plan was mentioned; I mentioned it previously.

The noble Lord, Lord Lucas, asked specifically about the six-year cycle for looking at SSSIs. I want to let him know that the Joint Nature Conservation Committee has moved from a six-yearly assessment cycle, so that is not how it is going to continue. Instead, we are moving to a risk-based process for SSSIs, so that we can be much more targeted and efficient in how we assess them. As part of this, Natural England is developing a long-term prioritised monitoring programme and is working to make better use of new technologies such as remote sensing.

Citizen science and partnership working were mentioned. I assure noble Lords that citizen science is already being used to support assessments; for example, we are working with organisations such as the British Trust for Ornithology and the Botanical Society of Britain and Ireland in this area.

The noble Baroness, Lady Jones, asked about protected landscapes. Again, protecting these important landscapes is obviously incredibly important. The new Government are committed to working on how we can improve our protected landscapes so that they offer more to 30 by 30—basically, achieving their full potential going forward, because we know that, at the moment, they are not.

The noble Baroness, Lady Rock, asked about continuing the Farming in Protected Landscapes programme. I am not fobbing her off in any way at all and will come back to this when we talk about the budget but, at the moment, we are simply still looking at the spending review. I assure noble Lords that we have not made any final decisions about this issue, but clearly will be doing so.

The noble Lord, Lord Gascoigne, raised the review of the environmental improvement plan, which I mentioned earlier. I assure him that the review I mentioned will be completed by the end of the year. The idea is to provide a clear vision on how we are going to use it to achieve our environmental goals.

Marine monitoring, including HPMA monitoring, was mentioned by a number of noble Lords. The committee made a recommendation on expanding the current marine monitoring programme, both inshore and offshore. I am sure noble Lords are aware that this is an extremely complex process that requires long-term vision and, of course, investment. We want to work in close collaboration with Natural England, the JNCC and Cefas on what the future of that marine management should look like and the best practice to deliver against the statutory targets that have been set. It is also important that any data they collect complies with accessibility standards and is publicly available.

The noble Earl, Lord Devon, who has kindly given me apologies for having to get his train, asked about marine net gain. For the record, we are currently working to develop options, including timescales for the operation of that policy. It has not disappeared; we will provide more information in due course.

Further on marine, the noble Lord, Lord Blencathra, asked about the Blue Belt. I can give him a firm yes; we support the Blue Belt, which is very important.

The noble Baroness, Lady Jones, asked who the Minister responsible for international development is. I can confirm that it is Mary Creagh MP.

The noble Lord, Lord Blencathra, asked about overseas territories, including Darwin Plus. The committee rightly recognised that the overseas territories will be integral to the UK’s contribution to the global biodiversity framework goals and targets, and calls for effective partnership working. Clearly it is for the individual territories to decide how they want to work within this and how they want to work with us, but we are working closely with the Governments and Administrations of the overseas territories to develop a new overseas territory biodiversity strategy. I assure noble Lords that we are working hand in hand and looking to move forward in this area.

The noble Baroness, Lady Jones, asked about the Global Ocean Treaty. I confirm that we fully agree with her on the importance of the Agreement on Biodiversity beyond Natural Jurisdictions for protecting our marine environment, especially for achieving 30 by 30 for the ocean under the global biodiversity framework. It is important that we show progress on that; we want to make progress and to work with the international community to deliver on these agreements. My understanding is that at the moment the FCDO and Defra teams are working together to come up with a realistic timeline to introduce the necessary legislation for UK ratification.

The noble Baroness, Lady Miller, asked about citizen science and partnership working. These are critical. That is something that we are building through the work we are doing in looking at how to achieve results. The role of partners is going to be incredibly important. This is a huge collaborative effort and we have to work in partnership. The public sector, the conservation sector, farmers, developers and business: we all have to come together if we are genuinely going to achieve these targets.

The noble Earl, Lord Caithness, asked about partnership details for specific organisations. I will just say that we are looking right across the piece to see how we can deliver with partners.

My noble friend Lord Grantchester mentioned the devolved Administrations. This is an important opportunity to work collaboratively with the devolved Administrations as we review and develop our approach here.

The noble Lords, Lord Gascoigne and Lord Harlech, asked about building and the environment. The green belt in particular was mentioned. We are consulting on what we are referring to as the grey belt, which are the areas that are designated as green belt but are not of good standard. Part of the reason for consulting on and talking about the grey belt is to make sure that we protect the green belt that is of value—pulling out the areas that are not, but protecting the areas that are important.

There was a lot of discussion around ELMS. I shall try to cover a few bits but clearly time is ticking on. Just to confirm, we are absolutely committed to ELMS. My honourable friend Daniel Zeichner, the Farming Minister, is working really hard, talking to stakeholders and looking at how we develop ELMS to make it more fit for the future, particularly around such things as nature-friendly farming. Our manifesto said that

“food security is national security”:

we want to work with farmers and other stakeholders, including tenants. We take the needs of tenants and their rights very seriously. There is a lot of good work going on there.

That brings me to the Budget. As I say, we are still in discussions and nothing has been agreed or decided yet on whether there will be any cuts to the farming budget.

The noble Lord, Lord Lucas, mentioned the OECMs. Again, we will be looking at the committee’s recommendations around this to develop a process to identify land outside the designations. In that same vein, the noble Lord, Lord Blencathra, talked about national nature reserves. I just say that many of these are already in SSSIs, so already contributing.

Finally, the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Norwich talked about forest schools. My granddaughter has just finished three years at a forest school. She has thrived and grown and it has been the most wonderful experience for her, so I have huge admiration for the work that they do.

Once again, I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Parminter, for securing today’s debate and her committee for all its work. It is a huge piece of work and can greatly inform the Government as we actively consider the recommendations it sets out. I look forward to working constructively with everybody in this Room as we go forward and will write if I have missed anyone’s question.