Food and Farming: Supply Issues

Baroness Bakewell of Hardington Mandeville Excerpts

Thursday 20th January 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

This is an incredibly important part of our economy, particularly our rural economy. I am delighted that we have managed to get the addition of ornamental and other non-food-related measures as part of the seasonal worker scheme, and it is quite right that we do so. But we are reliant on the industry telling us in advance, as much as it can, about where it thinks the pressures will come from in the future. We have the ability to increase the £30,000 by another £10,000, and we want to encourage much more training in the sector.

[Baroness Bakewell of Hardington Mandeville (LD)]

My Lords, the national food strategy has met with criticism from ITV, which is keen to continue advertising fast, unhealthy food. Given the rise in obesity and diabetes, why are the Government not promoting local, healthily grown fruit and vegetables which can then go into the free school meals system, to both improve the health of our children and support our farmers?

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

My Lords, we are. We want to encourage local food chains to operate more effectively; it is of course much healthier for the environment and the quality of the food is better. We want to disrupt highly centralised food chains where we can. We also want to make sure that we are encouraging as stable a food chain system as we can, because we rely on the just-in-time measures to get food from the field to the plate.

Environmental Land Management Schemes

Baroness Bakewell of Hardington Mandeville Excerpts

Thursday 16th December 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

The right reverend Prelate raises a very good point. For example, we have put some money into the farming in protected landscapes scheme, which many different access groups are using to work with farmers and organisations like national parks and AONBs to get greater access. We absolutely intend that these are part of the environmental land management schemes, but that other funding streams can be accessed as well.

[Baroness Bakewell of Hardington Mandeville (LD)]

My Lords, on 2 December the Minister wrote to your Lordships giving an update on the transition from CAP. The annexe indicated that 70 applications have been received for trials on landscape recovery. Could the Minister give an update on how these are going and whether any include access to the countryside?

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

A wide variety of different activities are being looked at as part of the tests and trials. Our announcement on local nature recovery and landscape recovery will be made next year. We are working with the test-and-trials farmers and land managers to ensure that access is part of this, as well as the very important work we need to do to reverse the declines in species.

Sugar Beet: Neonicotinoids

Baroness Bakewell of Hardington Mandeville Excerpts

Wednesday 15th December 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

Legislation will come forward—next year, I hope—on gene editing, which is a key measure in finding alternatives to this sort of problem. We are talking about a very small percentage of the area where neonicotinoids were used prior to the 2018 ban, to which the Government are absolutely committed. We are applying very strict conditions—if we go ahead with this; we have not yet made a decision. The last time this derogation was made, those conditions were not met and this spray was not applied. We are a long way from allowing this to go ahead. If it does, it will be under very controlled circumstances.

[Baroness Bakewell of Hardington Mandeville (LD)]

My Lords, the forecast of virus yellows levels in the 2021 sugar beet crop, produced on 1 March, predicted that 8.37% of the national sugar beet area would be affected by the end of August 2021. As the threshold for the use of neonicotinoids is 9%, can the Minister say whether this threshold has actually been breached and, if not, why are the Government considering emergency neonicotinoid use?

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

If we did consider giving this permission, we would then have to apply thresholds. They may be different from the thresholds we applied last year. The noble Baroness is absolutely right: that threshold was not reached and so no seed dressings were applied. I hope very much that that will be the case this year.

Wine (Amendment) Regulations 2021

Baroness Bakewell of Hardington Mandeville Excerpts

Tuesday 14th December 2021 Grand Committee

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Lord Benyon) (Con)]

My Lords, these regulations will ensure that the UK meets its legal obligation to implement the provisions in Annexe 15 to the TCA concerning the trade in wine. The amendments made by this instrument concern lot marking and transitional marketing arrangements. They will remove the requirement for VI-1 certificates to accompany imports of wine into Great Britain and put in place provisions underpinning the simplified certification arrangements for exports of GB wine to the EU.

Turning first to the measures that concern VI-1 certificates, these regulations will make changes to retained EU Regulation 1308/2013 of the European Parliament and the Council and make consequential changes to retained EU Regulation 2018/273. This will remove the requirement for a wine imported into GB to be accompanied by a VI-1 certificate, or a simplified form of that certificate, where that wine has been produced in line with our regulatory framework for wine.

This change will apply to wine imports from the EU. We are exercising a choice not to introduce unnecessary trade barriers in the form of self-certificates of the type mentioned in Article 3 of Annexe 15 to the TCA. This decision will ensure that wine products originating in the EU will continue to have free and unfettered access to the GB market. This will help to support an industry worth more than £1 billion per annum and maintain the UK as a global hub for the wine trade.

In parallel, we will also remove the VI-1 requirement for imports of wine from all other countries, such as Australia, Chile, New Zealand and the USA. This will be done on the basis that they, too, meet our regulatory requirements. These wines represent about 50% of the wines on our shelves and, due to EU rules, have been subject to a VI-1 certificate to be marketed in Great Britain.

The removal of VI-1 certification represents a positive first step in simplifying our wine regulations to remove aspects of the bureaucratic and discriminatory regime that we inherited from the EU. I offer my thanks to the wine trade and noble Lords for continuing to make such a compelling case for removing VI-1 certificates. The Government have listened and acted to remove this unnecessary piece of red tape that we inherited from the EU.

This SI will also make changes to retained EU law to ensure that wines produced in GB are subject to the appropriate supervision, inspection and authentication checks necessary to underpin the use of the new simplified certification arrangements for exports of GB wine to the EU. These proposals will also introduce provisions to ensure that the lot code arrangements for wines will continue to operate between GB and the EU. This will implement Article 4(3) of the TCA and will be done by amending the Food (Lot Marking) Regulations 1996. The changes will ensure that a wine bearing a lot code that complies with EU law in a member state can continue to be marketed in Great Britain. Lot codes are an important tool to help to trace wine products that have been prepared or packaged under the same conditions.

Finally, these regulations will implement Article 5 of Annexe 15 to the TCA concerning transitional arrangements for the marketing of wine products. Amendments will be made to the Wine Regulations 2011 and the Food Information Regulations 2014 that will allow for the marketing of wine products that, at the date of entry into force of the TCA—1 May 2021—had been produced, described and labelled in accordance with the rules existing at that time. The provisions allow two years from 1 May 2021 for wine stocks to be run down at the producer and wholesale levels, while stocks at a retail level can continue to be sold until they are exhausted. Transitional labelling arrangements are an important consideration in the wine sector where products can have an extended shelf life and their quality can appreciate over prolonged periods of time.

Overall, this instrument is primarily concerned with introducing the changes necessary to implement Annexe 15 to the TCA. It is important as this helps to underpin our relationship with the EU, which, collectively, is the most important wine-producing and trading region on the planet. However, this instrument also marks an important first step in freeing up our wine trade from unnecessary inherited red tape.

We have a flourishing wine and viticulture sector. Through this instrument, the Government are delivering on the levelling-up agenda by making regulatory changes that support wine importers, bottling plants and exporters across the country. From Accolade Wines in Avonmouth and Kingsland in Manchester to Greencroft in County Durham, we are removing a burdensome technical barrier to trade. Defra will continue to work with the industry and across government to ensure that we have the best possible regulatory regime for wine. I beg to move.

[Baroness Bakewell of Hardington Mandeville (LD)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for his time and that of his officials in the briefing, as well as for his introduction to this relatively straightforward instrument.

The Explanatory Memorandum gives clear detail. Paragraph 7.3 refers to wine that has been stored and appreciated in value, and is then marketed later when it may not have the requisite information details that we are introducing in this IS; the Minister referred to this. Ensuring that this does not happen is referred to, in the last sentence of paragraph 7.3,

“by amending the Wine Regulations 2011 (S.I. 2011/2936) and the Food Information Regulations 2014 (S.I. 2014/1855).”

The Minister referred to those statutory instruments. However, there is no indication of when this might happen. Can he say whether a date has been given for that action?

Paragraph 7.8 gives details of the trade in wine with Northern Ireland and the effect of the Northern Ireland protocol on the wine industry. It makes the claim that, although the instrument

“will be looked at again once those negotiations have been concluded”,

there will be no

“significant effect on the trade in wine between Great Britain and Northern Ireland.”

Is the Minister sure that there will be no significant effect? The wording of the EM implies that there will be an effect but it will not be significant. I know that this is straining at gnats, but it would be helpful to have clarification.

Consultation with the industry, including the Wine and Spirit Trade Association, WineGB, the Food Standards Agency and Food Standards Scotland, has taken place. Not surprisingly, since the VI-1 wine import certificates are to be abandoned and the process simplified, there was general satisfaction in the process to be instituted and followed. It will reduce costs, which is good for business.

However, I am somewhat concerned that the consequent reduction in the price of wine could lead to harm from increased alcoholism, especially among young people, due to it being cheaper. Although a glass of wine is an enjoyable thing for most adults, the cheaper it is for those on low incomes, the more likely it is to be tempting to consume more than is healthy. Addictions of all type are a strain on the health service, and alcohol addiction can lead to anti-social behaviour and violence. I am not suggesting for one minute that the reduction in the price of wine will lead to wholesale disorder on the streets, but it is a consideration for young people.

The Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee has produced information paragraphs on this SI, having consulted Defra. There is a transition period, to which the Minister referred, of two years for producers and wholesalers of wine, and until stocks have been exhausted for retailers. Can the Minister say whether an estimate has been made of how long it might be before stocks of wine imported under the TCA before the lot codes came in might be exhausted? Is it likely to be sooner than two years, or might stocks be left at the end of the two years? If so, what arrangements will be made to ensure that these wines can still be marketed although they will not have the lot codes in place?

Lastly—I am sorry but this is a bee in my bonnet— I note that no impact assessment was produced. It is clear from the EM that there are likely to be impacts; it would have been helpful for these to be gathered together in one place. Apart from these minor comments, I am satisfied with this SI. I can see that it will be very good for business and will improve the movement of wine between GB and the EU, so I support it.

[Baroness Hayman of Ullock (Lab)]

My Lords, I, too, begin by thanking the Minister and his officials for taking the time to meet me and the noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell, to go through these amending regulations in advance. It was very helpful. I also thank him for clearly explaining the purpose of the detailed statutory instrument that we are looking at. As he explained, these regulations will ensure that the United Kingdom meets its legal obligations to implement the provisions in Annexe 15 to the trade and co-operation agreement, which deals with the trade in, and of, wine. Specifically, they will amend rules concerning lot marking and the import and export certification arrangements for wine products, as well as putting in place the transitional marketing arrangements, which are important.

However, I will concentrate on the removal of VI-1 certificates. As we have heard, the instrument proposes changes to ensure that wines from the EU and other third countries imported into GB will not require a certificate and analysis report any more. Defra has said that VI-1 certificates

“serve no purpose to business or the consumer, and simply add unnecessary costs to the trade in wine.”

After considering options for the future of wine certification, the Government announced on 25 July their intention to remove the requirement for VI-1 certificates on all imported wine into Great Britain, as the statutory instrument before us is intended to do. We have heard that this measure is also likely to reduce costs for our wine importers while increasing the global attractiveness and competitiveness of the UK as a hub for the wine trade. We understand that this change has been much welcomed by the wine industry, which estimates that it will save it around £100 million every year, so we also support this statutory instrument and welcome the changes it brings in.

We would also like to acknowledge the work of the Wine and Spirit Trade Association, mentioned by the Minister, in pressing the Government to alter their previous position. Noble Lords may remember that that was initially just to roll over the European Union rules and regulations on wine imports. It is very welcome that the Government have listened to the industry and brought in these changes.

Leaving the EU made a significant difference because the EU’s rationale for bringing in an import document—effectively, a technical barrier to trade—was, in reality, to protect its own wine industry. Whatever our views on our departure from the European Union, for us, as a net importer of wine, it made little sense to maintain the rules designed to disadvantage our imports. While I pay tribute to the UK’s many excellent wine producers, we import more than 99% of the wine that we consume in this country, and around half of those imports are from the EU.

Again, it is good that, following industry engagement, the UK Government initially introduced a much-welcomed grace period for VI-1 forms for all wine imported from EU countries, meaning that the forms have never actually been required for EU wine imported into the UK. That is why we now support the Government’s intention to remove this documentation from 1 January next year.

Having said all that, we have a few questions and concerns that I want to draw to the Minister’s attention. First, there is the impact on Northern Ireland, as raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell of Hardington Mandeville. As we heard, the SI does not extend to Northern Ireland, given the operation of the Northern Ireland protocol and the ongoing UK-EU negotiations on it. Paragraph 7.8 of the Explanatory Memorandum, which the noble Baroness mentioned, says that relevant provisions will be brought forward

“once those negotiations have been concluded.”

Does this mean that the Government have no intention to trigger Article 16? If that is the case, why have the Government given the impression that they might actually do so?

The Explanatory Memorandum continues:

“In the meantime, we do not anticipate this will have any significant effect”—


as the noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell of Hardington Mandeville, stressed—

“on trade in wine between Great Britain and Northern Ireland.”

To me, this is all a bit unsatisfactory and unlikely. Can the Minister tell us how that conclusion was reached? What discussions took place with the Northern Ireland Executive before that conclusion was reached? What engagement was there with colleagues in the Irish Government in Dublin? As the noble Baroness said when talking about the implications for Northern Ireland, clarification in this area would be extremely helpful.

Animal Welfare (Sentience) Bill [HL]

Baroness Bakewell of Hardington Mandeville Excerpts

3rd reading
Monday 13th December 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hannan of Kingsclere (Con)]

My Lords, I support my noble friend Lord Herbert of South Downs and my noble and indestructible friend Lord Mancroft. I asked at Second Reading: to what problem is this legislation a solution? I listened carefully through Committee and Report and I did not get an answer. I am afraid that I am reluctantly thrown back to the conclusion that this was a Bill brought forward in response to a fake press release—that, at the Dispatch Box in another place, the Minister was panicked into promising legislation in response to a false story to the effect that Conservatives had voted to say that animals were not sentient. Declamatory law of this kind invites unintended consequences. It is almost a textbook definition of how not to legislate. It does not reflect well on our lawmaking process that this House has been prevented from exerting its ameliorating and scrutinising function. I hope that that function will be taken up in another place.

[Baroness Bakewell of Hardington Mandeville (LD)]

My Lords, I listened carefully to the noble Lord, Lord Herbert of South Downs. I fear I do not agree that this Bill was a waste of parliamentary time. A large number of Bills are coming forward during the pandemic that are not health related, but it is important that legislation moves forward and does not get bogged down in Covid. Similarly, I listened to the comments of the noble Lord, Lord Hannan of Kingsclere, who, unfortunately, was not able to be here at the beginning of the debate. I live in a rural community and support the rural way of life, and I do not feel the Bill threatens either the ethos or the practical way of life in rural communities. This is overstated.

I congratulate the Minister on his remarks and on eventually getting this very short but important Bill to the point of being able to pass it on to the other place. I did not envisage at the start of the process that it would be so controversial in some quarters of the Government Benches, who, in their own words, have attempted to paralyse the House with boredom.

I thank the Minister for his time and that of his officials in providing briefings along the way, and for his patience in dealing with the many amendments and queries that came forward. I also thank the noble Baroness, Lady Hayman of Ullock, for her time and assistance in helping to steer the Bill forward. It is always better when Front Benches are united in moving a Bill forward.

The amendments that have been accepted have improved the Bill. It will be interesting to see how the Bill is received in the other place and whether it will make any further amendments. No doubt it will be heavily lobbied by the spokespeople this afternoon. I support the thrust of the Bill and look forward to working with the Minister on future legislation.

[Baroness Hayman of Ullock (Lab)]

My Lords, on these Benches we have listened to the speeches from the noble Lord, Lord Herbert of South Downs, and other noble Lords, but we cannot support the amendment. I am sure noble Lords are not surprised to hear that. I will not go into any details. At Second Reading, in Committee and on Report, we discussed in depth and at length exactly the same issues as we have today, and I am fairly confident that any noble Lord present at any of those debates understands fully my feelings on these issues.

Animal Welfare (Sentience) Bill [HL]

Baroness Bakewell of Hardington Mandeville Excerpts

Report stage & Lords Hansard - part two
Monday 6th December 2021 Lords Chamber

[The Earl of Caithness (Con)]

My Lords, I have listened with care to what has been said and find the arguments convincing. However, I am slightly concerned about the proposition put forward by the noble Earl, Lord Kinnoull, and supported by my noble friend Lord Strathclyde. As I understand the procedure now, if the Minister agrees to such a meeting but then decides to do nothing, we can do nothing at Third Reading. I would like clarification that we could not bring forward an amendment at Third Reading unless there was an indication from the Government today that it would be accepted. I think that is the new procedure.

I have two questions for my noble friend that are relevant. Does he agree with the situation north of the border and the attitude taken by NatureScot that:

“The death of an animal, at an individual level, is not a welfare issue but the manner in which an animal dies is”?


If he agrees with that, will he give an instruction to the committee to follow that same principle? Does he also agree with the thoughts of the National Animal Welfare Advisory Committee in New Zealand, which distinguishes between societal ethical values and public opinion? Again, if he agrees with that animal sentience committee’s thoughts, would he give the same instruction to the committee that he proposes to set up?

[Baroness Bakewell of Hardington Mandeville (LD)]

My Lords, this small group of amendments, moved by the noble Lord, Lord Marland, deals with the work of the animal sentience committee and touches on the issue of religious rites in Amendment 27, spoken to by the noble Earl, Lord Kinnoull, and the noble Baroness, Lady Deech. It is obvious from the contributions made that everybody feels very passionately about this.

Medical science is important and should be confirmed wherever possible. As the noble Lord, Lord Trees, said, lots of safeguards around licensing of medical science are already in place. There is obviously a need to ensure that those for whom religious rites are an important part of their lifestyle are respected, as set out in Article 13 of the Lisbon treaty. Despite the fact that this was before Brexit, I believe the Government should and do respect this right, upholding the values of those for whom the method of slaughter of those animals which form part of their staple diet is protected.

Amendment 48, which has not had a huge amount of debate this evening, is consequential on Amendment 2 and sets out the detail of the way in which the committee will be constituted and work. The noble Lord, Lord Marland, has just set out a bit about that and there is detail in the amendment. However, I am afraid I do not agree with either him or the noble Lord, Lord Mancroft, on parts of the amendment.

Limiting the term of office to four years could lead to a loss of expertise on the committee, especially if all members were appointed at the same time—which could happen, since it will be a new committee—and, therefore, rotated off at the same time. Further, I find the list of who may not sit on the committee very restrictive. It could lead to someone with the necessary expertise and knowledge being excluded from being a committee member. However, I agree with this amendment in that there should be transparency and independence. That is the direct opposite of the first group of amendments, which sought to fetter the committee’s independence.

The detail in Amendment 48 is extensive. However, the draft terms of reference document is also comprehensive and indicates that Defra has thought carefully about how the committee is to be constructed and how it will carry out its functions. On balance, I am inclined to go with the Defra guidance on this issue but will be interested in what the Minister has to say on this subject and on the knotty issues around Amendment 27.

[Baroness Hayman of Ullock (Lab)]

My Lords, I will talk first about the first part of Amendment 2, which looks at committee remit and policy. That has not really been discussed much in this debate so far. I draw attention to the terms of reference, because they include a lot of information about the role of the committee and policy. I put on record that we welcome a number of formal recognitions that the committee will have. It will: consider positive effects on animals as sentient beings in the policy-making process; report on any policy for which UK Government Ministers are responsible; examine policy decision-making by previous Governments where this has a significant bearing on ongoing policy-making. It is also important that the selection of the policy decisions it will choose to scrutinise will lie within the committee. I will make a final point on policy before moving on. I draw attention to the fact that it is not for the committee to reach a value judgment on whether a given policy decision balanced the welfare of animals with other matters of public interest.

On Amendment 48, the noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell of Hardington Mandeville, has pretty well covered all the areas I wish to draw attention to, so I will move on. The second part of Amendment 2 and Amendment 27 refer to having regard to cultural and religious considerations, as we have heard. Clearly, this is extremely important; the noble Baroness, Lady Deech, in particular, demonstrated that passionately in her speech. As we have seen, Amendment 27 seeks to sustain an aspect of the sentience responsibility that applied when we were EU members: the derogation to Article 13 of the Lisbon treaty, which exempts cultural practices from animal welfare considerations.

Again, I draw noble Lords’ attention to the fact that this derogation was negotiated during the Lisbon treaty by a very small number of EU Governments particularly looking to preserve practices such as bullfighting. I believe that we now have the freedom to widen our ambitions for animal welfare while still respecting cultural and religious practices. Indeed, the restrictions in Article 13 have frequently been cited as one of the key flaws in EU sentience policy that post-Brexit UK sentience policy can improve on. In fact, the then Secretary of State at Defra Michael Gove said in 2017:

“The current EU instrument—Article 13—has not delivered the progress we want to see. It does not have direct effect in law—in practice its effect is very unclear and it has failed to prevent practices across the EU which are cruel and painful to animals.”


Article 13 has not stopped any of those practices, but leaving the EU gives us the chance to do much better. This matter was discussed at length in Committee and the noble Baroness, Lady Fookes, made some good points about existing legislation. In Committee, in response to noble Lords’ concerns, many of which were exactly the same as those expressed today, the Minister assured us that any Minister would have to take into account the wider considerations of cultural and religious organisations and form views in accordance with them. I hope that he can similarly reassure noble Lords today.

Finally, I say to the noble Earl, Lord Kinnoull, that I am always happy to meet to discuss policy and legislation with anybody.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

I congratulate my noble friend Lord Robathan on stepping into the breach at such short notice and so eloquently moving Amendment 3. I will speak to Amendments 4, 6, 8 and 10 in my name, and I associate myself with earlier comments on the general thrust of this Bill put by the noble Lord, Lord Marland, in moving his Amendment 2 in the earlier group.

I share the general concern of those who are sceptical about the need for this Bill. I see it as a further onslaught on farming and livestock producers, particularly those in the uplands. I yield to no one in my praise and admiration for the way they go out in all weathers to produce lambs and suckler cattle at this time of year and, especially, in the spring. We are conscious of the fact that, in the north-east of England, there are some 12,000 people without electricity; presumably, the farmers are having to milk the cows by hand, which, of course, takes a lot longer than would normally be the case by other means.

As I mentioned earlier, I would prefer that we keep to the basics of the manifesto. I have now had a chance to reacquaint myself with Article 13, which states:

“In formulating and implementing the Union’s agriculture, fisheries, transport, internal market, research and technological development and space policies, the Union and the Member States shall, since animals are sentient beings, pay full regard to the welfare requirements of animals.”


This neatly makes the case for the main thrust of my argument—the reason why Clause 1 is not required is that it is adequately covered by Article 13. I look forward to hearing a strong argument and reassurance from my noble friend the Minister as to why that should not be the case.

I echo the remarks of my noble friend Lord Marland; it would seem that the Government are drifting away from supporting farming, maintaining self-sufficiency in our food production and our high standards of food production. However, through this Bill, the subsequent regulations and, no doubt, the advice of the committee being set up by Clause 1, we are actually making life much more difficult, in particular for livestock producers. I put on record my regret for that, particularly with respect to tenant farmers—and 48% of farmers in north Yorkshire fall into that category.

In speaking specifically to my Amendments 4, 6, 8 and 10, I refer to the earlier arguments put by the noble and learned Lord, Lord Etherton, and pay tribute to the work done by the noble Lord, Lord Anderson, in private practice on what constitutes “an act” for the purpose of judicial review. I humbly submit to my noble friend the Minister that the animal sentience committee’s terms of reference—a final draft of which was sent to us on 17 November 2021—will indeed constitute an act that would be justiciable as regards a judicial review. Is there a strong reason why that would not be the case?

In Committee, when I moved similar amendments, I did not obtain the reassurances from the Minister that I sought at that stage. He argued that he did not want to put on the face of the Bill the length of time for an appointment. I argue in my Amendment 4 that appointments under Clause 1 should be

“for a period of three years”.

I argue in Amendment 6:

“The membership of the Committee is to include, amongst others … a veterinary surgeon; … an active farmer or person with knowledge of livestock production or land management; and … a person with knowledge of slaughterhouses”.


Abattoirs are, if you like, the final nail in the coffin for the animal, which is sent on its way. That is my plea for more detail in the Bill.

Equally, I have set out perhaps greater detail in Amendment 8. I lifted this text from an earlier Bill—it might have been the Trade Bill, now the Trade Act, with respect to the Trade Remedies Authority. I forget which Bill it was, but I am grateful for the help that I received from the Public Bill Office in drafting the amendment. In desperation, I have also retabled Amendment 10 to leave out Clause 1 in case I do not get satisfaction and reassurance from the Minister this evening.

The Minister’s argument is flawed. If he does not wish the detail to be on the face of the Bill since this would constitute an act that is justiciable in terms of a judicial review, I argue that it was equally inappropriate to put in his letter to us of 17 November, as well as in a separate printout of the terms of reference, what the remit and constitution of the committee would be. Even though it is a separate document, that is as justiciable as it would be if it were on the face of the Bill.

I am extremely proud to have been a student of constitutional law at Edinburgh University under the excellent tutelage of Professor JDB Mitchell, who was at the time a leading expert in administrative law. I keep his book in the kitchen. My husband sometimes thinks that I am confusing administrative law theory with my recipes, which is why I often leave the cooking to him. A more up-to-date authority that I turn to is the Public Law Project, which sets out, for example, what can be challenged. It says:

“Decisions, acts, and failures to act by public bodies exercising their public functions are all potentially challengeable by judicial review.”


I must be simple in not being able to follow my noble friend’s argument but, to be absolutely clear, why is it not acceptable to put in the Bill the level of detail that I am seeking, but acceptable to put it in the supplementary documents? These are easier to amend but, in my view, because they constitute an administrative act, they will be equally justiciable.

I end with a last request to understand why, when just about every other Bill introduced by the Government since 2017 has waxed lyrical as to the composition and remit of the committee it set up, that is deemed not to be subject to judicial review, yet this is subject to judicial review. With those few remarks, I look forward very much to receiving reassurances from my noble friend the Minister.

[Baroness Bakewell of Hardington Mandeville (LD)]

My Lords, this is an interesting group of amendments seeking to specify the membership of the committee. The noble Lord, Lord Robathan, and the noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh of Pickering, have set out the rationale for their amendments and there are some contradictions. Amendments 3 and 5 would remove the Secretary of State from the process altogether, whereas Amendment 8 would leave the power to appoint with the Secretary of State. Amendment 6 would ensure that certain levels of expertise were included in the committee’s membership.

I agree that certain skills and level of expertise are important, and can see immediately from the list that a single person can have more than one skill level and fulfil more than one function. For instance, the law currently requires that a veterinary surgeon must be present in a slaughterhouse. Therefore, he or she will have knowledge of the way a slaughterhouse operates.

However, whether such people will have time to sit on the animal sentience committee remains to be seen. A veterinary surgeon who no longer works in a slaughterhouse might do, depending on their current workload, but setting the membership in legislation could be something of a millstone around the neck of the chair or the Secretary of State, whoever is recruiting the membership.

The list of what the animal sentience committee can and cannot do under the amendment in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh, is extensive and somewhat cumbersome. I believe it could be streamlined. I look forward with interest to the Minister’s response to these issues.

[Lord Hannan of Kingsclere (Con)]

My Lords, this block of amendments goes to the heart of what is wrong with the proposal. We all have an idea of who “the expert” is and what kind of person will give us the answers we want, whether that is a vet, someone banned from being a member of an animal rights movement, or whatever. The idea that there is some disinterested, impartial, patriotic expert who can somehow rise above the rest of us and be the only objective person is one of the most pernicious ideas in modern politics. We all have our opinions and starting assumptions, the “expert” more than anybody, if by “expert” we mean someone has spent his or her career in one field. They are the last person to whom we should contract out our decisions as a parliamentary assembly.

I totally understand that the Minister will want some flexibility, but a later amendment in the name of my noble friend Lord Howard of Rising proposes a sunset clause. Maybe we could see whether the committee works out with the experts as proposed in the way the Minister assures us. If it does there will be no problem, and, if not, we will have another go at it. Perhaps that would be the wise amendment for the Government to accept.

Water: Sewage

Baroness Bakewell of Hardington Mandeville Excerpts

Wednesday 1st December 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

If the noble Lord will allow me, I will write to him with a specific technical response, because we are talking about public health and I want to make absolutely certain that he has the necessary information that the agency will provide me with.

[Baroness Bakewell of Hardington Mandeville (LD)]

My Lords, I have listened carefully to the questions and the answers given by the Minister but remain unconvinced that much is going to change quickly—and I am really pleased that I am not a wild swimmer. Why does the Minister think it acceptable for raw sewage to continue to be discharged into our water and for water companies not to take any immediate action to prevent this? Why are shareholders’ dividends being put before water quality?

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

I do not speak for water companies, but I think they are taking this matter extremely seriously. My local water company, Thames Water, recently wrote to me about measures it is taking in relation to a chalk stream which it has previously polluted. I know for a fact that water companies are deeply seized of the urgency of this situation, and their encouragement to support the amendments shows willingness. We are not complacent. We will hold them to account through all the mechanisms that we can use. Where they falter, they will be fined. Southern Water was fined £90 million, the largest fine of such a kind, last year. The Government will not be afraid to continue that sort of action if required.

Eggs (England) Regulations 2021

Baroness Bakewell of Hardington Mandeville Excerpts

Tuesday 23rd November 2021 Grand Committee

[Baroness Bakewell of Hardington Mandeville (LD)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for his introduction to this short statutory instrument. I think it is the shortest statutory instrument I have ever had to speak to, but it has very important issues at its heart.

A small percentage of British eggs are exported, and these are only ever grade A eggs, according to the Explanatory Memorandum. The British egg industry is 89% self-sufficient and produces plenty of eggs for consumer needs. A very small percentage of eggs are imported. During the period when Covid-19 was at its peak, eggs were imported from Spain due to supply chain difficulties. It is essential that only grade A eggs are imported and important that there should be adequate checks on these eggs.

It is, of course, practical for these checks to be done at the packing centres where egg marketing inspectors are already carrying out visits. However, I would like reassurance that it would not be possible for imported eggs to enter the retail market without going through a packing centre. I presume that if eggs were checked at the border on the point of import it would be very difficult for them to go unchecked and enter the retail chain. Can the Minister say whether it would be possible for eggs to leave the point of import and avoid going through a packing centre?

There is also an issue with labelling. Eggs stamped with the Lion symbol are processed through exclusive Lion packaging centres that do not deal with imported eggs, as that is prohibited under the Lion scheme rules. The BEIC, which runs the Lion Quality scheme for egg production, owns the Lion Quality trademark and is obviously keen to protect its product.

Eggs entering the GB market and coming from countries that have equivalent standards to home-produced eggs are not labelled. However, eggs coming from countries that do not have equivalent standards are labelled “non-UK standard” or “non-EC standard” and with the country of origin. How confident can consumers be that this labelling is accurate?

I understand that these eggs are likely to be used for mass catering and retail. Given the small percentage of imported eggs—10%—it is likely that these eggs will end up being used for catering purposes—

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall) (Lab)]

My Lords, I apologise for interrupting the noble Baroness. She will be aware that a Division has been called in the Chamber. The Committee will adjourn—I am hesitating to say for 10 minutes, because I am not quite sure whether that is what has been agreed—for certainly no more than 10 minutes to allow noble Lords to register their votes.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Bakewell of Hardington Mandeville (LD)]

My Lords, as I said, given the small percentage of imported eggs—10%—it is likely that they will end up being used for catering purposes. However, the consumer will not be informed that they are consuming products made with imported eggs. Given the contribution made by the noble Lord, Lord Rooker, on the fraudulent labelling of eggs, is this a concern for the Minister?

The consultation carried out online received six responses, with one agreeing to the proposal and the other five expressing a preference for checks at the border. Could this poor response be due to the online nature of the consultation? Although it is practical for the checks to take place at packing centres, it is important to keep the industry on board. With only one in six producers content with the proposals, it seems as though the Government are riding roughshod over the egg-producing industry. The noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh of Pickering, referred to this, although she did not use those words.

The Explanatory Memorandum indicates that:

“a round table will be scheduled with industry”

to mitigate any concerns. Can the Minister say whether this round table has taken place yet and, if so, what the outcome of the discussion was? If it has not yet taken place, has a date been fixed in the future? Can he provide reassurance that the cost of checks will not fall on the egg industry? The noble Earl, Lord Cathcart, referred to the costs involved. I am concerned to hear again from him that Defra is actively encouraging the import of cheap eggs. Why, given that GB is virtually self-sufficient in egg production?

Lastly, given that the Lion Quality assurance scheme accounts for 90% of GB egg production, can the Minister say how many packing centres are therefore likely to be dealing with imported eggs? The noble Lord, Lord Rooker, asked some very searching questions, and I look forward to the Minister’s response, but I am generally content with this SI.

Trees: Ips typographus

Baroness Bakewell of Hardington Mandeville Excerpts

Monday 1st November 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Bakewell of Hardington Mandeville (LD)]

My Lords, the eight-toothed spruce bark beetle is only 4.2 millimetres to 5.5 millimetres long and therefore very difficult to spot and identify. How can the Government be absolutely sure that it is not more widespread than the demarcated areas to the south and east of London?

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

I am very happy for the noble Baroness to have a detailed briefing on the measures we are taking, but we have an extensive trapping system, using pheromone traps to attract the beetle. We are counting it in infected sites and working in the containment area and beyond to make sure that it is not spreading. The phytosanitary measures we have put in to retain diseased timber in that region are also very important.

Farming Rules for Water

Baroness Bakewell of Hardington Mandeville Excerpts

Monday 1st November 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

I will discuss my noble friend’s suggestion with the Farming Minister. Life is quite complicated for farmers at the moment. If we start trying to map the country in terms of how we allow different levels of manures to be applied, there may be a further problem—but I take his point, which is well made.

[Baroness Bakewell of Hardington Mandeville (LD)]

My Lords, the National Pig Association has warned that the Environment Agency’s long-awaited statement on the farming rules for water could have significant impacts on pig and arable producers. Many pig producers will not be able to comply with some of the conditions, such as preventing application on sandy or shallow soil. Discussions have taken place between the EA and the NPA, providing clarity that will resolve the issue for only some producers and for only this growing season. There is concern that the majority of producers will still not be able to use the RPS. Would the Minister care to comment?

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

I would. The noble Baroness makes an important point in relation to some pig farmers, but we want to make sure we are cleaning up our rivers. That means working with farmers to find a sensible system of rules that apply long-established good farming practice so that manures are applied only to crops that will take up those nutrients and none will leach through into catchments or river courses.