Fishing Industry

Debate between Anthony Mangnall and Luke Pollard

Thursday 29th June 2023 Commons Chamber

[Anthony Mangnall]

The hon. Gentleman makes the point perfectly. If the exemption is there, let us use it. It takes nothing other than the Minister standing at the Dispatch Box to say that regulation 14 will be used. I get the sense that there may be some cross-party support on this issue.

[Luke Pollard]

I was in that meeting as well. I do not wish to add to the piling on of that Minister, but there is a point to make about how regulations should be implemented, and there is a real problem with how this particular regulation is being implemented. Does the hon. Member agree that the way to build trust with the sector, which feels put on and over-regulated, is for the MCA, the DFT and possibly DEFRA to ensure that there is renewed trust between them and the sector? The absence of trust will not deliver the regulatory outcomes that the Minister wants and will only further corrode the already tense relationship between the fishing industry—especially those using small boats—and those who seek to regulate them.

[Anthony Mangnall]

The hon. Gentleman makes a fantastic point. Communication is key. We are not trying to overload the sector. We want to make sure that we take all the steps in the right way, but that means that organisations such as the MCA and DEFRA have to be very clear and concise. I say this to the Minister, and I am sure that the Fisheries Minister is watching: they have been proactive in engaging with us and very clear about this, so this is not me having a dig at them.

[Anthony Mangnall]

I absolutely agree. As ever, my hon. Friend adds huge weight and knowledge to the debates on this topic. I hope that officials and Ministers across all Departments are listening to the points that we are making.

I am taking up far too much time, but I will just make three other quick points. I should also mention that my hon. Friend the Member for Truro and Falmouth (Cherilyn Mackrory) cannot be in this debate but wanted to emphasise that her view on medical certificates is very much aligned with those that have been expressed across the House.

Another concern about the fishing sector relates to the I-VMS—the inshore vessel monitoring system. That has been a difficult programme to roll out. We have to ensure that the MMO has learned from the shambles of the type approval process and does not repeat that. As the hon. Member for Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport (Luke Pollard) said, the MMO has to be open and transparent and must communicate in full with fishermen and the fishing community.

That brings me on to the catch app. I am perfectly willing and happy to accept that modern technology has a place in how we fish and farm, and that we must use it to our full advantage, but the app is still not functional. People still cannot enter some port locations or species or differentiate between male and female crabs. The computer literacy and, indeed, connectivity in some places across this country are of hugely varying quality, so there needs to be a bit of understanding. I have seen fishermen in my community suddenly being issued with non-compliance letters many months after the alleged incident happened. That only adds to the stress of those in a sector that is really under the cosh at the moment and which needs more support.

[Luke Pollard]

The catch app and the type verification for I-VMS are two good examples of over-burdensome regulation. The threat of criminality if someone cannot successfully weigh a fish—within 10% of its weight—while at sea without marine scales seems to be home-grown, massively over-burdensome and costly red tape that creates additional stress. Does the hon. Member agree that there must be a better way of doing this to ensure that fishers can be taken with the Government when they change the laws, not pitched against them?

[Anthony Mangnall]

Yes. Where we have seen huge progress is that the Fisheries Minister has been extremely proactive on this. I hope I am not speaking for him when I say he has told me that he agrees with the points we are making. It is about how the MCA is putting this in and regulating it. We have to make sure that what we say in this Chamber and what is being said in Departments is translating through to the organisations that enforce it. If we get that right, we can suddenly do all the things that the hon. Member for Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport and Conservative Members are saying.

We have spoken a little about Brexit. There are huge opportunities outside the common fisheries policy, and Brixham in my constituency is a fantastic example of a fishing port that has had record sales since 2021. In 2021, it sold £43 million, in 2022 it sold £60 million, this year it is on course to sell £63 million and next year it is forecasting £67 million. By 2027, it expects to top £100 million-worth of sales. Brixham prepared for Brexit, and it is taking advantage of it. New boats are coming on line and being built, and the Government’s capital allowance is a huge support to the sector. Do not think we are being doom and gloom about the sector; it is about ensuring that we recognise the difficulties of gold-plated legislation, rules and regulations and try to unlock them to make it easier and simpler, and about ensuring that we really talk up the sector.

We need to talk a lot more about food security in this country, and we need to talk about how we can be more self-sustainable. Our coastal waters offer that opportunity. We must make sure that, when we come back with the three-yearly reports on food security, fishing and aqua- culture are fully embedded to help us answer the call for better food security and better local food on our plates.

It is a privilege to speak on behalf of the fishing community in my constituency and to know that so many colleagues on both sides of the House share similar views.

Affordable Housing (Devon and Cornwall)

Debate between Anthony Mangnall and Luke Pollard

Wednesday 27th April 2022 Westminster Hall

[Luke Pollard (Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport) (Lab/Co-op)]

I thank the hon. Member for South West Devon (Sir Gary Streeter)—my constituency neighbour—for those remarks. There is cross-party agreement on this issue that I have not seen from Devon and Cornwall for quite some time, and I thank the hon. Member for North Devon (Selaine Saxby) for her introduction, in which she summed up the problem very well. I am on the opposite side of Devon to her, but the challenges on the south coast are similar. They are all part of the same pattern.

This problem is a frustration for many of us in the west country, because it has been growing for years and years. I like this Minister—I think he is a good Minister—but I also know that Housing Ministers are ticking time bombs who will get replaced at the next inevitable reshuffle. We need to make sure that an impact is made early—not long consultations, not long discussion documents, but action delivered in the near term. That is what I hope the Minister will be able to achieve.

My starting point for this debate is a simple one: every family in the south-west should be able to afford a first home, be it to rent or to buy. However, we are fast becoming a region of second homes, Airbnbs and holiday lets. Our communities are being hollowed out, and that is proceeding at pace. The pandemic is turbocharging the housing crisis in the south-west, but the measures to react to it are not coming at the same pace, so we need to look at this issue again.

Far too many people are on housing waiting lists—nearly 10,000 in Plymouth. Those people are living in overcrowded accommodation, living in bed and breakfasts—not the Airbnbs we have spoken about, but accommodation that is not suitable for long-term occupancy. We need to do something about it that will mean everyone can have a first home.

Plymouth operates the Housing First model. I commend the council, be it red or blue, for adopting an approach that says the first thing we should do for any person who is in crisis or having difficulties is provide a safe and secure roof over their head. I wish all councils would follow suit, but it is a good approach. However, we are running out of roofs to put over people’s heads. We need to make sure that we are building at the right pace and making sure those homes are genuinely affordable. I agree with the remark about 80% affordable not being affordable—that is a simple spin to try to persuade the public that enough action is being taken, when it is not. Eighty per cent. affordable is not affordable, and we must not fall for that. Nor should we believe that the dream of home ownership is available for everyone—that is spin from decades ago. Home ownership is out of reach for the vast majority of young people in the south-west. It is something that is accentuating the brain drain in our region, at the very point when we have an opportunity to seize the potential of the south-west to have more people living there.

The average house price for a first-time buyer in Devon is £258,000, and people need a 10% deposit to get a mortgage. That is £25,000, which is too much for many people on low incomes in the west country, and we need to ensure that there are alternative routes. With more families struggling to pay bills, it makes saving up for a house deposit, be it for the private rented sector or for purchase, so much harder. We have seen a massive surge in houses being purchased to become second homes, which is contributing to the hollowing out of our communities. At the same time, we have also seen people renting a property on the private rented market and being removed under a section 21 no-fault eviction, with the property appearing on Airbnb on the same day as the eviction. It is a good way for landlords to make a lot of money, but it is a bad way to have a sustainable community, and the cost of the family now in crisis falls on the taxpayer. It is completely unsustainable.

The private rented sector in large parts of the south-west has collapsed, and we are experiencing market failure. There is a need for urgent intervention, which we have not seen in the past decade.

[Anthony Mangnall]

The hon. Gentleman is making an excellent speech, and I totally agree with his point, but what we need to do—exactly as my hon. Friend the Member for St Ives (Derek Thomas) said—is look at having covenants on properties that say “primary residence only”. That must be on new builds, but it can also be on buildings that are bought into housing associations or on houses that are sold on the market. We must look at how we can adopt that strategy.

[Luke Pollard]

I think there is a good route for covenants. As someone whose little sisters work in farming, I know that the agricultural ties on some properties are a really important way to ensure that some people are able to afford to live in a rural area and work in agriculture. However, we know that those agricultural ties are too often being severed from properties, which are then turned into holiday lets or empty homes.

I agree with the suggestion made by my constituency neighbour, the hon. Member for South West Devon, about an urgent housing conference in the south-west. There is a special need for it, because the south-west is experiencing this problem ahead of many other regions, notwithstanding the constituency of our Lib Dem friend from Cumbria, the hon. Member for Westmorland and Lonsdale (Tim Farron). We are hitting this problem first, because we have the highest number of second homes and Airbnb penetrations, but it will come to every other region of England and the rest of the country. Instead of receiving bright ideas from London, let the bright ideas come from the communities that are being affected the most. I think that is an excellent suggestion, which I am sure will enjoy full cross-party support to ensure it works, but there are other opportunities in this space.

As I have badgered the Minister and shadow Minister, they will know that the proposals for a First Homes not Second Homes campaign that I have worked up with colleagues from Cornwall and across Devon put the policy emphasis on ensuring that everyone can afford a first home. We need to have a principled moral stance on home occupancy, and I hope the Minister will look carefully at Devon and Cornwall’s devolution proposals on what additional powers over second homes and Airbnbs could be included in our devolution deal to ensure that we are better able to take that on board.

The personal stories are harrowing. Ellen from Plymouth told me that she and her seven-month-old daughter have had to flee domestic violence and be placed in a hotel, but there is building work outside from 8 am to 8 pm. It is simply unaffordable for her to move into the private rented sector, and there is no social housing available in her band. Colleagues from Cornwall have also shared stories of working people who are unable to afford the rent increases this year and who are now facing homelessness or the need to move out of our region.

There is one case that I have been working on for many years, which is about the lack of not just affordable housing but accessible housing for those with disabilities. The problem is especially acute in a city such as Plymouth, where our housing stock is already compressed. It might be possible to accommodate a person with a disability in a one-bedroom flat—we have a few of those—but if they have a family, as many of them do, they are not able to access accommodation, because it simply does not exist. There is no vehicle for their accommodation to be built and funded, so they sit in no man’s land in perpetuity, which is simply unacceptable.

I agree with nearly all the suggestions that have been made so far. The First Homes not Second Homes campaign has been picking up some of the suggestions that are not always in the public domain. I would like the Minister to consider allowing local councils to quadruple council tax not just on empty properties, but on second homes. The Welsh Labour Government introducing that 300% council tax on second homes is, I think, an interesting pioneer project here. I would encourage the Minister to look at it, notwithstanding the difference between party colours, because we must get this right.

Our communities are being hollowed out by second homes. That means looking at how they are getting hollowed out. I would like the Minister to look at the enforcement of covenants on right-to-buy properties. Councillors Jayne Kirkham and Kate Ewert, two Labour councillors in Cornwall, have been pressing Cornwall County Council to ensure that covenants on right-to-buy properties, which exclude those properties from being used as holiday lets, must be enforced, because far too many of them are being used as such. That, I think, is an opportunity for us to reconsider, and I commend the work that they have been doing.

The First Homes not Second Homes manifesto also deals with the fact that our communities have been hollowed out to the last shop in the village. It is about the bus routes going because there is not enough daily traffic and about the shop not being able to make enough money all year round, even though they might do well in the summer months. There is a real opportunity for that.

My final point is that we must build more homes, but must also retrofit the homes we have. Far too many of our homes—especially in places such as Plymouth—are frankly too poor in quality. Some 43% of the people I represent live in the private rented sector. There are some brilliant landlords in Plymouth but, sadly, a number have let their houses deteriorate, so we must ensure that there is an incentive to properly insulate and secure properties. That will lower the bills, which might make the end product more affordable.

However, we are in a state of housing crisis here. Our market is failing. That is why I look to the Minister for urgent action that can be delivered this year—not some time ahead. I commend the suggestions that have been made on a cross-party basis here today.

Fisheries Management

Debate between Anthony Mangnall and Luke Pollard

Tuesday 13th July 2021 Westminster Hall

[Luke Pollard (Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport) (Lab/Co-op)]

I pay tribute to the right hon. Member for Orkney and Shetland (Mr Carmichael) for the way he introduced this debate. This is a deeply political area. It genuinely matters, and it is important that we do not take cheap shots because people’s livelihoods depend on it. The way in which the right hon. Gentleman introduced this debate shows why he is held in such high regard by Members on both sides of the House.

I would also like to pay my respects on behalf of the Labour party to the friends and family of David Linkie. It is really important that we have robust journalism on fishing at this time, especially because so many promises have been made and so many promises have been broken. It is important that those people who serve fishing communities, both in this place in elected roles and in journalism, are as professional and thorough as David was, so I pay tribute to him.

As this is a fisheries debate, although not the annual fisheries debate that the hon. Member for Waveney (Peter Aldous) from Waveney mentioned, I would also like to pay tribute to all the fishers who go to sea every single day to catch our food—it is the most dangerous peacetime occupation and they deserve our thanks—as well as organisations such as the coastguard and the Royal National Lifeboat Institution, which exist to save lives at sea. I support all efforts to continue allowing them to legally save lives at sea. If someone is drowning in the channel, they should have a legal right to save them. Sadly, that is not the Government’s current position with the Immigration and Social Security Co-ordination (EU Withdrawal) Bill, and I hope that the Minister, in support of saving lives at sea—something so important for this debate—will have words with the Home Office to say that saving lives, wherever they come from, is the right thing to do.

[Anthony Mangnall]

I think the hon. Gentleman has overlooked the National Coastwatch Institution, which is made up of thousands of volunteers, has extraordinary stations and does so much of the good work he has mentioned.

[Luke Pollard]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for giving me the opportunity to say thank you to my stepmother, who is one of those officers along the coast in Boscastle in North Cornwall. I thank him for that.

This is a debate that has been prompted by Brexit. It is because of the promises made by Ministers about fishing—the sea of opportunity, the additional fish—that we are here today. It is interesting that those who attended these debates before Brexit have not always done so after Brexit. Having made the case for Brexit, and then made the case for a harder form of Brexit, many of them are not here to stand up for their fishing communities in the way that those communities now need. As a small but perfectly formed representation of the south-west, we know that that is really important and we need to do it.

The betrayal of the promise on the six to 12 nautical miles is something that fishers find unforgivable. The hon. Member for North East Fife (Wendy Chamberlain) was right to say that we should assess this on how fishers feel. Well, let me tell you: fishers feel betrayed, they feel abandoned and they feel lied to. That is because they have been betrayed, they have been abandoned, and in many cases they were lied to by prominent people whom they respected because of the offices they held and whom they believed would tell the truth, when that was not always the case. That is why the Members in this room, whom I genuinely believe care about their fishing communities regardless of which party they are in, must now clear up the mess that has been made by the Prime Minister and his botched Brexit deal. If we do not, fishing businesses will go under, and that is simply unforgivable.

I want to address a number of issues and to pick out others that have been raised by colleagues. The first is the plight of small boats. Throughout this debate, hon. Members have alluded to the extra difficulties for those people who work on our small boat fleet—the backbone of the British fishing fleet. In 2019, the Seafarers UK report, “Fishing Without a Safety Net”, found that many of those small businesses were struggling to afford the vital safety equipment that has been put in place. I very much enjoyed the Minister’s foreword to that report, which said:

“Small-scale fishing is a cornerstone of local coastal communities around our shores.”

She was right then and she is right now, but that is why I am so confused about why so much of the support provided by the Government throughout the covid period went to large fishing companies and not to the smaller fishing companies. So much potential help for those small businesses escaped them because of technicalities and because the people who sat on those boards did not value sufficiently those small boats and initiatives such as the brilliant Call4Fish, which came from Plymouth and helps provide those small boats with a domestic market. As we heard from the right hon. Member for Orkney and Shetland, those small businesses were subsequently penalised because of how those rules were drawn up. I do not think that that is right. The hon. Member for Totnes (Anthony Mangnall) is right to say that the delays in bringing forward that money are unacceptable. The Minister and I will no doubt pick that up when we discuss the statutory instrument on MMO funding tomorrow morning. It is unacceptable that, eight months after we left the European Union, fishers have not been paid the money that was promised to them. Ministers need to sort that out pretty fast.

Ministers have been speedy to enforce on those small boats the catch app—a needless piece of home-grown, Conservative digital bureaucracy that is sinking many of those businesses. The catch app requires fishers to weigh their fish before they are landed, on scales that do not exist on small boats and that are not marinised. When those same fish are landed and get put through a grading machine, the same information is provided. We know that handling fish for extra time reduces their quality and price, yet the Government are forcing needless Conservative digital bureaucracy on fishers. It is simply nonsense, and I encourage the Minister to please look at that again.

I am also really concerned that much of the so-called windfall stock—the uplift in fish quota—does not exist. They are paper fish, deliberately enhanced and inflated in the stock assessments leading up to Brexit. We will not get them. I am not convinced that we are getting those extra fish; indeed, because of problems with quota swaps and with the science, many of our fishers up and down the coast are now seeing reduced quota. It is not the sea of opportunity that they were promised.

The hon. Member for Waveney, who knows that I am a big fan of his, praised his REAF initiative, and I would also like to praise it. It is a great example of what happens when communities come together. There are similar examples around the country and he does a good job of promoting his.

I would like briefly to pick up on shellfish. We are facing the potential collapse of the shellfish industry because the Government failed to negotiate a proper export arrangement for our shellfish. Live bivalve molluscs are a really important part of the industry not just in the south-west and in Wales but right across our coast. It is simply not acceptable that they were excluded and that a solution has not been put in place. Simply blaming the EU was the tactic before we left the EU. We now need solutions, not blame. Simply reallocating class B waters does not make those waters any cleaner or any better. If anything, the Government are opening themselves up to legal risk by saying that these waters are no longer as dirty as they were. We need a proper solution to the issue of the export of live bivalve molluscs. If that does not happen, businesses in the south-west and around the country will go bust within months. That simply has to be addressed. I encourage the Minister to listen very carefully to Conservative, Labour and other party Members who represent coastal areas.

[Anthony Mangnall]

Will the hon. Member give way?

[Luke Pollard]

I will not at this time, I am afraid.

I had hoped to be able to raise a number of points. In the spirit of praising people when they get it right, I want to thank the supermarket Aldi for stocking British fish. They are mainly Plymouth-caught fish. Whenever we go down the meat aisle at a supermarket, we see flags aplenty—we see the heritage of where that meat comes from—but we do not see that down the fish aisle. Why is that? It is because we mainly export the fish we catch and import the fish we eat. At a time when the Government have made importing and exporting more complicated, more costly and more difficult, we need to buy and eat more of our own fish. Well done to Aldi for taking a punt on that. I encourage other supermarkets, which will no doubt have their monitoring alerts for this, to stop ignoring British fishers and to put British fish on their shelves.

The plight of the distant water fleet is often ignored. It is a sector of our economy that has been hugely betrayed. I pay tribute in particular to the Labour MPs in Hull, who have fought the case on behalf of our distant water fleet. Those fishers are a living, breathing example of the betrayal that has been perpetrated against them.

The Minister will know that Sir Charles, I and other Members of Parliament have an interest in the bluefin tuna catch-and-release trial, which will ensure that those wonderful, amazing fish are not simply caught and eaten when they are in our waters, but can be used to propel and support the recreational fishing industry. The announcement that the Minister was hoping to make about that is a few months overdue, so I would be grateful to her if she could touch on it.

We have not spoken much about non-quota species in the debate, but it is a really important area. Non-quota species are the financial foundation of our entire fishing sector, and the Government’s deal allows EU fishing boats to take and exploit our non-quota species. They have failed to negotiate a real-time transfer of data, so we cannot even see to what extent they are doing it. That needs to be resolved urgently, to support our small boat fleets.

On a point that I hope everyone in the House will welcome, the Minister for Digital and Culture, the hon. Member for Gosport (Caroline Dinenage), made an announcement today that will be a real boost for Plymouth. The campaign to have Plymouth Sound designated as the UK’s first national marine park—a campaign launched by a Labour MP, supported by the then Labour council, and now supported by a Conservative council—now has the support of the Government, with a £9.5 million boost that will support marine jobs and help bring our oceans and seas closer to people living on land. If we have learned anything from the debate, it is the fact that what happens at sea matters. We need more people to understand the fantastic array of marine life at sea, the importance and fragility of marine coastal habitats, and the importance of those jobs.

I want a proper debate on fisheries on the Floor of the House when we come back from the recess. I want to see proper, robust scrutiny ahead of any annual negotiations, which were mentioned by MPs on the Government side. Most of all, with an impending reshuffle and uncertainty about whether the Environment Secretary will still be in his place, I want the Prime Minister to apologise to fishers for the poor deal. I want him to take a personal interest in ensuring that those businesses do not go bust and in protecting the future of this industry. It is a brilliant industry and full of fantastic, innovative people. They deserve a proper plan to support their sector.

Fisheries Bill [Lords]

Debate between Anthony Mangnall and Luke Pollard

Ways and Means resolution & 2nd reading & 2nd reading: House of Commons & Money resolution & Money resolution: House of Commons & Programme motion & Programme motion: House of Commons & Ways and Means resolution: House of Commons
Tuesday 1st September 2020 Commons Chamber

[Anthony Mangnall (Totnes) (Con)]

rose—

[Luke Pollard]

I am going to make some progress, because I only have limited time and I do not want to take time away from people at the end of the call list; apologies.

On safety, progress is being made towards making fishing safer, but much work still needs to be done. I want to see fishers wearing lifejackets all the time that come as standard with personal locator beacons which take the search out of search and rescue when boats go down or fishers are washed overboard. I want more work on stability, especially for smaller boats when they change gear. Remote vessel monitoring and CCTV on board—another amendment won in the Lords—will help to ensure that fishing stays within the law, but will also incentivise fishers to wear a lifejacket and come home safely to their families after each trip. I know that this is a cross-party concern, and I commit Labour to working constructively to help to save more lives, as we have in recent years.