Financial Services (Implementation of Legislation) Bill [ Lords ] (First sitting)

Anneliese Dodds Excerpts

Tuesday 26th February 2019 Public Bill Committees

[Alison Thewliss]

Again, amendment 5 seeks to limit some of the sweeping Henry VIII powers that the Government are taking under this Bill, as they did with the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018. We seek to disapply sections 8(5) and 8(7) of the withdrawal Act, which allow regulations to do anything, with some exceptions, that can be done by an Act of Parliament. We would very much like to see the Government bringing back some proper, primary legislation as part of a wider strategy on financial services, rather than putting all these out in the way that they are. As I have argued at different stages—and I do not seek to repeat all the arguments here—the Government are giving themselves a huge amount of power under this Bill. We would like to pull that back somewhat, which is what this amendment seeks to do.

[Anneliese Dodds (Oxford East) (Lab/Co-op)]

I rise to speak in support of amendment 14. It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Edward, and to follow the hon. Member for Glasgow Central. I very much agree with the sentiments she has expressed. Labour’s amendment 14 is similar in intent to the SNP’s amendment 5, albeit that it would achieve its outcome through a different route; but we will support the SNP’s amendment if it is pushed to a vote, as well as our own.

As members of this Committee will be aware, we have consistently expressed our concerns about the proliferation of Henry VIII powers created through secondary legislation during the process of preparations for no deal. Indeed, that was one of many reasons why we voted against this Bill on Second Reading. The transposition of EU regulations, as mentioned by my hon. Friend the Member for Stalybridge and Hyde, is not an apolitical technical process, necessarily.

During the process of debating the different no-deal SIs that have already been passed through the House, there has been contention on a wide range of issues, including the resourcing and capacity of our regulators to carry out the tasks that heretofore have been carried out by EU bodies; the regulators’ capacity and accountability when levying fines as provided via the new legislation; the ability of Government to alter criminal convictions, which has been provided by part of this process; the setting of thresholds at UK level that previously were set at EU level involving complex sets of calculations; the discretion provided to regulators to apply or disapply EU-level decisions, with reference not to onshored EU legislation but instead to the objectives of those regulators; and many more. We have talked about all of those within the Delegated Legislation Committees and they are significant. It is our contention that they should not have been dealt with through secondary legislation.

[Thelma Walker (Colne Valley) (Lab)]

I wanted to speak to the amendments and new clauses in the names of my hon. Friends the Members for Oxford East and for Stalybridge and Hyde. The global financial crisis has shown us all—

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[The Chair]

The hon. Lady can speak as often as she likes, but she must let the hon. Member for Oxford East finish her speech first.

[Anneliese Dodds]

I look forward to hearing my hon. Friend’s speech very soon. Indeed, she started to talk about the financial crisis. This Bill covers many of the issues that were germane during that financial crisis, for example, capital requirement setting and surcharging. The Bill also covers decisions that could be made on consumer safeguards and protections. It is our contention that this process should be accountable and where decisions are made that alter primary legislation, that should not be through secondary legislation, but through the normal process with proper recourse to Parliament. Anything else, frankly, is to allocate power to Whitehall and not to Parliament.

The process of restricting decision making to secondary legislation causes problems not only for Parliament but for the public and for industry. I am sure this has been the experience of other Committee members when they have talked to people outside this place about how secondary legislation works. There is very little understanding. The processes for challenging secondary legislation are highly opaque and—we have discussed this in other Committees—the process for making decisions on it within the UK is quite different to that at EU level, where there is negotiation between the different institutions, including the European Parliament. In the case of the Westminster Parliament, it is simply presented, often even without debate in Committee, let alone on the Floor of the House.

Amendment 14 would prevent the Bill from being able to amend primary legislation. This is sensible to ensure there is proper democratic scrutiny of changes to significant elements of our financial regulatory architecture. My hon. Friend the Member for Stalybridge and Hyde set out the different regulations covered by the Bill, which include the central securities depositories regulation, the delegated cash penalties regulation, the markets in financial instruments regulation, the prospectus regulation and the securities financing transactions regulation. They collectively ensure appropriate levels of transparency in financial markets and instruments and ensure that critical institutions for financial stability hold the appropriate margin. We cannot underestimate their significance within the global financial system.

As Members will know, Henry VIII powers derive their name from the Statute of Proclamations in 1539, in which Henry VIII gained the right to pass laws, directly bypassing Parliament. The reasons for reducing their use to the bare minimum are clear. Not only do Henry VIII powers place a huge amount of control in the hands of the Executive; they also starve the scrutiny process of oxygen. I realise the Minister may well state at this point that he believes there has been sufficient scrutiny of the new measures, which may be introduced if there is no deal. In fact, I believe he stated that in his opening comments. I have only praise for him for appearing in front of many statutory instrument Committees and for taking that burden entirely on his own shoulders. He has been willing to take on board the Opposition’s concerns, and I thank him for that, but let us be honest about the impact of this process. As the Opposition have made clear in every one of those SI Committees, this process is unprecedented in its scale and scope, so there may be areas that have received insufficient scrutiny.

The potential for problems to be discovered only after the fact is real. In fact, just yesterday, the Minister rightly acknowledged—I praised him for being open about this—that there had been mistakes in the draft Financial Services and Markets Act 2000 (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019, and I mentioned that I had highlighted a drafting error in another SI. There may well be more examples of such anomalies, which are far more likely to be picked up when there is a proper debate on the Floor of the House rather than a brief discussion in an SI Committee—most of the time, let’s face it, just between Opposition spokespeople and the Government. Of course, not every SI is even discussed in Committee. In that context, I hope Committee members will support our amendment 14, which would halt the inappropriate use of Henry VIII powers.

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[Alison Thewliss]

The amendment would require the Government to prepare a report outlining the impact of any regulatory divergence from the EU as its regulations under this Bill are introduced. It has been accepted that the majority of this Bill’s impact will only be known after the Brexit date of 29 March, if indeed that is still the date. I have not checked my phone; who knows what has happened in the interim? All kinds of things may happen while we are in this room. Who knows?

The Minister spoke earlier about some of the in-flight legislation not being suitable or appropriate, because the UK will no longer be part of the process of making that legislation. He accepts that this is putting a lot of power in the Government’s hands in deciding what fits and does not fit, what we need to take on, and what we do not need to take on. The appropriateness of whether it will have significance to different industries, and whether we think they are appropriate, is all in the Government’s hands.

As the hon. Member for Oxford East has often said on this, it really does amount to a political decision. It is a political choice to decide which of those things are appropriate to different financial services organisations. The amendment would give a bit more clarity on the impact assessment of those decisions—political choices—that the Government intend to make. If we are going to diverge, that has an impact on how we are then able to conduct business with the EU. We need to have a better understanding, for each of those regulations, of how that will have an impact, financial and otherwise. We need a bit more clarity on what that impact will be.

This amendment gives us more opportunity to do that—to hold the Government to account on a continuing basis, and to make sure that we have a full understanding as a parliament on what the impact of the Government’s political decisions will be.

[Anneliese Dodds]

I rise to support the Opposition’s new clause 2, which is similar in intent to the SNP’s amendment 10. I would like to associate myself with many of the comments by the hon. Member for Glasgow Central. It is a pleasure to follow her in this debate. Labour’s new clause 2 is broader in scope than amendment 10, but it pushes in the same direction.

Our new clause would require the Treasury, prior to making any regulations under this Bill, to publish a report on the impact of the provisions of those regulations. In particular, we specify that the report should cover the following aspects: first, the impact of the provisions on households at different levels of income; secondly, the impact of provisions on people with protected characteristics as defined in the Equality Act 2010, with which I am sure we are all familiar; thirdly, the impact of the provisions on the Treasury’s compliance with the public sector equality duty with which I am sure, again, Members are familiar; and finally, the impact of the provisions on equality in different parts of the UK and different regions of England. The new clause underlines the pressing need for a greater understanding of the impact of legislation such as this on the real economy and on the people who work within it and are impacted by it.

Throughout this process, the Opposition have been concerned about the lack of impact assessments being provided for different pieces of legislation, yet even when they have been provided to us, they have often been highly restricted in scope as well as often arriving late in the day. Often, the main element receiving consideration within the impact assessments has been the familiarisation costs to business of the different measures. That has rightly been criticised by my hon. Friend the Member for Wallasey (Ms Eagle), and indeed last night by the Chair of the Treasury Committee. They both pointed out that the formula for calculating even familiarisation costs is highly mechanistic, relying solely on an assessment of the time spent reading each word of the new regulations, rather than a proper consideration of the level of impact of new regulations on different business practices, for example. Indeed, the Chair of the Treasury Committee has suggested that a better approach might be to ask firms for an assessment of what their adjustment costs will be, then produce a proxy based on that assessment. That could be a sensible way forward. I appreciate that the formula is currently set across Government, rather than just by the Treasury, but surely the area needs to be considered in a much broader context. We have tried to broaden the debate by specifying the elements that need to be taken into account in assessing the Bill’s impact, in line with our general approach to economic decision making.

Financial regulations often come across as a very rarefied area, but we all know that, as my hon. Friend the Member for Colne Valley pointed out, the consequences of getting them wrong can be enormous, especially for specific groups. Whether or not we agree—personally I do not—that cuts to social security were necessary to reduce the deficit that had been created by measures that followed the financial crisis, the burden of those cuts has clearly had an uneven impact on different groups.

The areas of regulation covered in the Bill could have highly disparate impacts. Arguably, the process of financialisation and the intensification of investment banking compared with relationship banking—boring banking, as we might call it—have helped to fuel the imbalance in lending. Over recent years, there has been an enormous move in the UK banking system away from loans to small and medium-sized enterprises and towards loans for real estate. That process has been much more marked outside London and the south-east—it has had a regional impact. The Bill covers some of the instruments that were involved in that process. Capital requirements also have an impact on the structure of banking and its regional distribution, so it is very important that we consider the issues properly.

Finally, I have a question for the Minister about his understanding of the impact of the better regulation provisions. I had assumed all along, as I am sure many other hon. Members did, that those provisions would not apply to this process, given the Government’s stated intention not to water down regulations. As hon. Members will be aware, the better regulation approach specifies “one in, three out”: for every new regulation introduced, three regulations must go. The same issue came up in a debate last night on a very different subject, albeit one that also related to no deal: the REACH etc. (Amendment etc.) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019, the no-deal provisions on the registration, evaluation, authorisation and restriction of chemicals—another incredibly complex body of legislation.

We do not have a clear answer from the Minister on the matter, so I would appreciate his assurance that the better regulation provisions will not apply to the process. If they did, it would counteract any claims made in this Committee or elsewhere that there would be no watering down. The issue is particularly relevant to new clause 2, because the better regulation process focuses only on the costs to business; it does not consider the costs, from a regional perspective, of not regulating, or the potential countervailing benefits to other groups. I have been informed that the better regulation provisions will not be applied to Grenfell-related fire safety regulations. Will the Minister confirm that they will not apply to this process, either?

If we suddenly find that the “one in, three out” provisions apply in this case, we will be in very different territory. There will be even more need for a proper impact assessment, because to an extent it will counteract some of the mechanistic impacts of the “one in, three out” process.

[John Glen]

I thank the hon. Members for Glasgow Central and for Oxford East for speaking to amendment 10 and new clause 2. I shall discuss them together, because although they differ in key aspects—the former looks backwards at the impact of regulations, while the latter looks forward—we have a similar response to both. The intentions behind them are sound, because it is only right that the Government make regulations with an understanding of their expected impact, but I suggest that they are both unnecessary in the context of the Bill.

As hon. Members know, the Government publish impact assessments for statutory instruments as a matter of course, and it will be no different for those introduced under the powers in the Bill. The impact assessments will include analyses of economic impacts and equalities considerations where relevant.

I acknowledge the challenges of publishing impact assessments for the SIs closely associated with the Bill. I have explained on several occasions in Delegated Legislation Committees, and I reiterate now, that we have done this in a compressed timeframe. Every SI that has gone through the Regulatory Policy Committee—I think there have been five of them—has been registered green. I note the concerns raised by the hon. Member for Oxford East and last night by my right hon. Friend the Member for Loughborough (Nicky Morgan) about the mechanism for evaluating the familiarisation costs. I am pleased that the hon. Member for Oxford East today acknowledged that this is a cross-Whitehall provision.

I will reflect on the points that the hon. Lady has made about the application of the better regulation “one in, three out” rule in respect of this process. I confess that I am not able to give her a definitive statement this morning; I will need to write to her. We have done what we can, and the Treasury is committed to meeting our obligations on impact assessments to enable parliamentary scrutiny. In line with the duties under the Equality Act 2010, and with Cabinet Office guidance, regulations will be made with the equality duty in mind, and any impacts identified will be included in the relevant impact assessments in the usual way.

I remind the Committee that the Government are required in legislation to produce reports ahead of and looking back at the publication of SIs under the Bill. Such reports will of course include, where relevant, the expected and realised impacts of the legislation that is introduced. I hope that, in the light of those assurances, the amendment will be withdrawn and the new clause will not be pressed.

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[John Glen]

The schedule contains a list of financial services files that are essential for ensuring the continued competitiveness and functionality of UK markets. Those files consist of 13 EU legislative proposals that are currently in negotiation and may enter into the EU Official Journal up to two years post EU-exit.

It is not an exhaustive list of all in-flight EU financial services legislation. In order to bring before both Houses a Bill that was as narrow in scope as possible, a triage process was undertaken to settle on files deemed essential to the ongoing functionality, reputation and international competitiveness of our financial sector in the crucial period following a no deal. Some in-flight legislation, for example, relates solely to the eurozone, so it would be inappropriate to include it in the Bill. I extend my thanks once more to the Lords, who suggested expanding the list to include the remaining two sustainable finance files, which was a suggestion that we were happy to accept.

In short, the files in the schedule are those that we believe will be most important for market functioning and UK competitiveness in a no-deal scenario. I recommend that the schedule be the schedule to the Bill.

Question put and agreed to.

Schedule accordingly agreed to.

[Anneliese Dodds]

I beg your pardon, Sir Edward, but I would like to ask for the Chair’s clarification if I may. We wish to clarify whether it is the case that as clause 1 was ordered to stand part of the Bill, new clause 1 falls, and that that is why we have not had a vote on it. Is that the case?

[The Chair]

That is correct. All that remains is for me to thank you very much. That was a very expeditious and efficient Committee. I said to Thelma Walker that during the first Committee that I attended, we spent 100 hours filibustering on the Cromwell statue, so I thank you for your efficient scrutiny and wish you a very good morning.

Bill, as amended, to be reported.