Child Support Agency

Debate between Anne McGuire and Maria Miller

Wednesday 11th July 2012 Westminster Hall

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Maria Miller)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Weir. You have a tendency to chair a lot of our debates on welfare.

I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Loughborough (Nicky Morgan) on securing the debate. It is difficult to do justice to the wide range of issues raised by Members on both sides, but the debate has left me with the overwhelming feeling that the system is broken much more fundamentally than just a broken IT system. I may have smiled wryly before because, when the right hon. Member for Stirling (Mrs McGuire) referenced IT systems, I had a vague recollection, which officials have just confirmed, that the new future scheme was supposed to have been introduced under a Labour Government but has been delayed considerably since its inception—hence the wryness of my smile.

[Mrs McGuire]

Does the hon. Lady accept that the first system was rubbish anyway?

[Maria Miller]

I think the right hon. Lady misunderstands me. I mean the introduction of the future scheme, which was considerably delayed under the previous Administration.

I am also somewhat surprised that Stirling seems to be atypical. Although the right hon. Lady might have only a handful of cases or fewer troubling her postbag, the statistics say something considerably different, which is that the Child Support Agency receives more than 20,000 complaints every year. I know that the agency’s chief executive is absolutely unhappy about that and is doing a great deal, working with staff, to do something about it, but it is indicative of the situation facing us.

--- Later in debate ---

[Maria Miller]

What I have said so far is the basis for the reform that this Government are putting in place. I pay tribute to the 8,000 staff at the Child Support Agency and all that they do, with the difficult system they work with, but I share the view hon. Members have expressed today that the current system is not working well enough for the people who need it the most. We inherited two sets of rules, three IT systems and more than 20,000 complaints every year, and reform that has failed to date. It is time to change the role of the child maintenance system and set it in context of the Government’s broader family and social justice policy, which is founded on the evidence that children have a better life with their parents providing support and protection throughout their childhood.

My hon. Friend the Member for South East Cornwall (Sheryll Murray) was right to say that parents need support from each other. Indeed, we have recently set up a customer panel to do just that and we are considering how to develop it further.

The hon. Member for Edinburgh East was right to say that we have to take into account the views of those who work in the field. They are indeed vital, but I caution her against focusing simply on the views of the legal profession, because as MPs who deal with such issues day in, day out, we all know that many people have more grass-roots experience, and we need to draw on that. Indeed, we as a Government have drawn on such voluntary and community sector experience in making our plans for the future scheme. A group of experts in the sector have worked with us to set out how we can ensure that parents have the right information and support, particularly early on, to work together post-separation and to make sure that both parents remain actively involved in their children’s lives. We have already announced £20 million to make that happen—that is in the current spending review. That £20 million, previously spent on IT systems and the rest, will now be used to support charitable organisations, which we all know do so much effective work with families. That funding adds to some £45 million that the Government are already spending in 2012-13 alone on supporting families and relationships.

The money will provide the sort of tangible help that makes a real difference to families’ lives when separation is involved, and it will do so in a way that supports children. It will cover the provision of an online distributable web application; training for voluntary and community organisations to provide telephone support and improved face-to-face support; and up to £14 million for the recently launched innovation fund, which will help innovative ideas to get off the ground and measure their success in supporting parents during family separation.

I reassure my hon. Friend the Member for Gosport (Caroline Dinenage) that we know that not everybody will be able to work together. She is absolutely right about that. The hard work that she does in her constituency proves that not everybody can come to their own arrangements. That is why we will also introduce a new statutory child maintenance service for parents.

My hon. Friend the Member for South Swindon (Mr Buckland) has immeasurable experience, and on a number of occasions I have had the benefit of his wisdom regarding reform in this part of my ministerial portfolio. He is right that tough enforcement action is needed. The Child Maintenance and Other Payments Act 2008 contains tough enforcement powers and we are committed to ensuring the implementation of the new statutory scheme, which will be introduced this year, along with powers to manage arrears of maintenance payments that have been accumulated under the existing scheme and are not collectible. We want to make sure, first and foremost, that we have the right statutory scheme before we take on those forcible powers that my hon. Friend thinks—and I agree—could work so well.

I will try to deal with the main issues raised in the debate. One that troubles many Members is that of non-resident parents whose lifestyles are inconsistent with their declared earnings. That is often coupled with being self-employed and other ways of playing the system that hon. Members have said some parents may be exploiting. The problem is not new and we think that our reforms will start to address it. We will use information from Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs about taxable income alongside other data to calculate the amount of maintenance that a non-resident parent is required to pay, and that information will be updated every year.

That is an important innovation, because we will no longer have to rely on declared income and will move instead to a system that relies on data provided to HMRC. Of course, some individuals may not declare all their income to HMRC, but that is a different matter. We are working closely with HMRC to do as much as we can to ensure that such income estimates are accurate and kept up to date, which, under the current system, they are not. The right hon. Member for Stirling is probably aware of all those issues from her time in government, and I hope she agrees that this is an important step forward.

[Mrs McGuire]

Given that we are dealing with people who put in a self-employed schedule D return, as opposed to the pay-as-you-earn, can the Minister give us any indication about where she will be taking the declared income figure from? Will it be from declared income, or will it be from income after all the other legitimate deductions come off—car use, boots for work and so on; all of the things that can be taken down—so that the taxable income at the end is far lower than what the person actually draws in?

[Maria Miller]

The right hon. Lady will know that we are looking at those sorts of details right now. I take from her comments that she wants to ensure that we are dealing with an income that is representative of the income that an individual has, rather than an income that may be depressed for the purposes of the calculation that is being made. I assure her that those are exactly the sorts of conversations that we are having.

The change to using HMRC data will also give us a much more efficient system, getting money to children quicker and more effectively tracking down parents who fail to pay. On that note, my hon. Friend the Member for South Swindon raised an important issue regarding armed forces personnel. We are reviewing how to provide a service to assist service personnel in this respect. I hope he finds that reassuring.

My hon. Friend the Member for South Derbyshire (Heather Wheeler) raised an important issue relating to the 12-month rule. Since I became a Minister, I have looked at that in some detail. We are looking for the evidence needed to quantify the scale of the problem and to ensure that we understand it fully, but I understand her point. I have received other representations on the matter and officials are working with the legal community and with the Ministry of Justice to consider how we can resolve the problem. It cannot be right to have a system in which people can play the rules to their advantage. We must have a system that works equitably across the piece. I undertake to write to my hon. Friend in more detail about the actions we are taking and to keep her fully informed of how we move forward.

My hon. Friend the Member for Romsey and Southampton North (Caroline Nokes) and various Scottish Members brought up the minute of agreement, which I have looked at in some detail. We do not feel that we can take that forward as part of the child maintenance system for which the Department for Work and Pensions has responsibility, but I know that my colleagues are well aware of it. If time were to permit—it does not today—I could talk a lot about the important innovations being made in the Ministry of Justice on mediation, which may well deal with some of the issues that the minute of agreement deals with.

In the few minutes that I have available, I wanted to address some of the other detailed points raised by my hon. Friend the Member for Loughborough, who is an assiduous constituency MP—

Specialist Disability Employment

Debate between Anne McGuire and Maria Miller

Tuesday 10th July 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mrs Anne McGuire (Stirling) (Lab)]

I thank the Minister for advance warning of her statement and indeed an advance copy of it.

I am somewhat surprised, however, that the Minister failed to identify the factories where there are no agreed business plans. With your indulgence, Mr Speaker, I shall quickly run through them: Acton, Ashington, Barking, Birkenhead, Bolton, Cleator Moor, Gateshead, Leeds, Leicester, Manchester, Newcastle, North London, North Staffs, Oldham, Penzance, Pontefract, Preston, Southampton, Spennymoor, Wigan, Worksop and Boston Spa; in Scotland, Wishaw; and in Wales, Aberdare, Abertillery, Merthyr Tydfill, Swansea and Wrexham. Other staff at risk include modernisation staff. It is disappointing that the Minister did not put that on the record.

May I try to lay to rest the issue of segregated employment? As the Minister and many others in the House are aware, there are strong views about so-called segregated employment, but many people who work in Remploy factories, and in other supported businesses throughout the UK, do not see themselves as segregated. They see themselves as exercising the same choice as non-disabled people have when they choose employment. We need to get away from the split between segregated and so-called non-segregated employment. I hope that the Minister will take that on board.

May I ask the Minister one or two questions about her statement? Why does she continue to declare that she is implementing the Sayce review, when Liz Sayce stated:

“Employees and management of Enterprise Businesses should be given a sufficient window (for instance, six months) to put forward a business plan to this expert panel setting out how the business will become viable without Government subsidy”?

That refers to six months. What we have had is a 90-day window to implement a closure programme. I am astonished that the Minister continues to use Liz Sayce’s report as some sort of human shield to disguise what she is doing.

The scale of the closures announced today vincidates Liz Sayce’s view that if only nine factories have been able to put together a business proposal in that 90 days, her six-month window would have given a far greater opportunity to some of the other factories to access such business expertise. The Minister made great play of the £10,000 for business advice for employee-led bids. Those involved would be hard pushed to get business consultancies for £10,000 to put together a business plan for some of the factories.

The time frame for closure does not take into account the challenge of winding up businesses and supporting people, many of whom have complex disabilities. Why has the Minister also decided to renege on the agreement made with those in the so-called modernisation group? There was an agreement with former employees that was supported in all parts of the House when the modernisation programme was announced, and many will be disappointed, if not surprised, that what was supported in opposition has been abandoned in government.

Will the Minister clarify the position of the Remploy pension scheme and how the Government will honour their responsibilities to that scheme? Given that the Government’s Work programme is missing its target for disabled workers by 75%, what new support is the Minister putting in place to support Remploy workers who will lose their jobs?

Frankly, there are times when I wonder whether the Secretary of State understands any of Remploy’s arguments as he sits and sniggers when he is not making disparaging comments about disabled workers.

Can the Minister distance herself from the harsh economic climate in which we find ourselves? Even if she is minded to make this decision, doing so in the current economic climate makes it look as if she is abandoning her duty of care to disabled employees who have given many years of service to a company that the Government own—a company that this country owns.

The Minister mentioned the Access to Work programme. She might wish to remind the House that Access to Work numbers are plummeting under this Government—[Interruption.] Well, the DWP figures seem to indicate that the Access to Work uptake has not been as good as she sometimes indicates to the House. In 2007, when my right hon. Friend the Member for Neath (Mr Hain) announced the modernisation programme, the now Minister of State, Department for Work and Pensions, the right hon. Member for Epsom and Ewell (Chris Grayling), said:

“Let me assure Remploy and its employees that the next Conservative Government will continue the process of identifying additional potential procurement opportunities for them and the public sector work force.”—[Official Report, 29 November 2007; Vol. 468, c. 451.]

Where is that Minister now, and what action has he taken in government to fulfil the promise he so glibly gave in opposition?

Finally, there is a programme that the Government have paraded around, telling us how wonderful it is: the regional growth fund. The National Audit Office has said that jobs created by the regional growth fund cost the taxpayer between £4,000 and £200,000. It has also said that 90% of the jobs could have been delivered at a cost of £26,000 a job, which is slightly more than the subsidy for Remploy workers and those losing their jobs today.

I do not disagree with the Minister that this is a difficult decision—many Opposition Members have been through some of these issues before—but I charge her, in a situation in which tens of people are chasing every job in some of the constituencies where Remploy factories are closing, with having abrogated her responsibility to disabled workers who have given a lifetime of service to Remploy.

[Maria Miller]

The right hon. Lady has very strong views on this matter, but perhaps I could ask her to consider the views of disabled people. Let me bring to the House’s attention a quote from Disability Wales, an organisation whose views many hon. Members on both sides of the House might value:

“Disability Wales… does not see Remploy as either progressive or forward thinking in their approaches to service provision. Although they may once have been seen as providing opportunities for disabled people, they are now standing in the way of full integration and indirectly hampering individuals’ chances of progression.”

I am afraid that that is what the people of Wales feel, and that reflects what many other organisations that represent disabled people in this country feel.

The right hon. Lady talked about the important issue of jobs, but I really wish that she would check her facts before coming to the House. If she were to do so, she would see that Access to Work is actually spending more money than ever before in supporting disabled people across the country. Yes, there is more that we can do, and that we are doing, because what we inherited was what Liz Sayce called the best secret in government. We are going out and marketing Access to Work actively to make sure that more people can use it to get into work. [Interruption.] The hon. Member for Garston and Halewood (Maria Eagle) says from a sedentary position, “You have to get a job”, and she is absolutely right. The individuals affected by today’s announcements live in areas where Remploy’s employment services arm has actually helped 10,500 disabled people into work over the past year alone, and indeed 35,000 over the past two years. She might be happy about having disabled people shut away in segregated factories but I am not, so on that we will have to disagree.

The modernisation plan is four years into its five-year process, and what is clear to us is that at least we are able potentially to take out of Government control some of the factories that have been subject to the initial phase 1 stage, which were judged by our independent advisers not to be financially viable. We still have to look at phase 2 factories—some 18 of them—that are judged to have more chance of financial viability, and I look forward to bringing hon. Members up to date on our progress with that in the summer.

On the pensions scheme, I reassure the right hon. Lady that we will protect in full all the accrued rights of participating members. As to the modernisation group, I also assure her that we are having ongoing conversations about how we can help to ensure that some of the people involved are not affected by redundancy. Perhaps I can talk to her in detail about that at a more appropriate time.

Disability Benefits and Social Care

Debate between Anne McGuire and Maria Miller

Wednesday 20th June 2012 Commons Chamber

[Maria Miller]

If the hon. Lady will forgive me, we need to make some progress in this debate or many hon. Members will not be able to contribute to it.

We are also reforming the disability living allowance, on which, again, the Opposition have failed to give any answers. Labour Members say they want reform, but the reality is that they have voted against reform every step of the way. As far back as 2005, the Labour Government found out that £600 million of DLA was being paid out in overpayments, yet they failed to do anything about it. In 2007, they found out that the independent living fund needed serious reform, but again they did nothing about it.

[Mrs Anne McGuire (Stirling) (Lab)]

The hon. Lady will know that—

[Mrs McGuire]

The hon. Lady knows full well that when the independent living fund was running into difficulty we established an investigation into it, we reformed the fund and we had Sheffield Hallam university carry out an independent review. She does not need advice from her Secretary of State on that one.

[Maria Miller]

The right hon. Lady is obviously a little sensitive on that point, perhaps because the fund was about to run out of money when we took over. We had absolutely no choice at all about the action we took and perhaps Labour Members should take a little more of the responsibility. They lost control of the situation for some of the most vulnerable groups in society and they must stand up and be accountable account for that.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Anne McGuire and Maria Miller

Monday 23rd April 2012 Commons Chamber

[Maria Miller]

I commend the work my hon. Friend has been doing. He has done so much to support disabled people in his constituency get into work, and I look forward to continuing to follow the work he is doing.

[Mrs Anne McGuire (Stirling) (Lab)]

Remploy Ltd provides a defined benefit occupational pension scheme for its employees, but it is not eligible for pension protection funding by virtue of regulation 2(1)(d) of the Pension Protection Fund (Entry Rules) Regulations 2005. In the case of Remploy, the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions guarantees that the company’s assets are sufficient to meet its liabilities in the event of its winding-up. Under the Minister’s current proposals, will the Secretary of State continue to honour that commitment to current and retired Remploy employees?

[Maria Miller]

I am sure the right hon. Lady is aware of the fact that when this Government took office we inherited an enormous deficit in the Remploy pension fund. We are trying to sort that out. I can absolutely give her the undertaking that pensions that are in place will be fully protected, as she would expect.

Women’s Aid

Debate between Anne McGuire and Maria Miller

Wednesday 14th March 2012 Westminster Hall

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Maria Miller)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Dr McCrea. I congratulate the right hon. Member for Coatbridge, Chryston and Bellshill (Mr Clarke) on securing this debate. We have worked together on numerous issues in recent years, and I know that his tenacity and commitment are second to none. I underline how important it is that we debate this issue. My hon. Friend the Member for Hastings and Rye (Amber Rudd) said that it is an issue for both men and women, and the fact that the right hon. Member for Coatbridge, Chryston and Bellshill secured this debate underlines that.

On behalf of everybody who has contributed to this debate, I pay tribute to all the organisations involved in supporting women, men and children facing the ordeal of domestic violence. I marvel at the work of the Basingstoke Rape and Sexual Abuse Crisis Centre in my constituency, which employs a dedicated group of people who bring a much-needed service to an important part of my constituency. I am sure that all hon. Members can look to similar organisations in their constituencies.

I am grateful for this timely opportunity to discuss how the welfare system supports and will support those affected by domestic violence. As hon. Members have mentioned, significant changes will take place as a result of the Welfare Reform Act 2012, particularly the introduction of universal credit. Domestic violence is a dreadful act of abuse, and the Government are absolutely determined to tackle it. There are many matters that I would like to discuss in response to the issues raised by hon. Members. I will try to address each in turn.

It is unacceptable that 7% of women and 5% of men reported having experienced domestic abuse in the past year. That is equivalent to around 1.2 million women and 800,000 men. The violence against women and girls action plan, launched in March 2011, was refreshed earlier this month and sets out numerous commitments that the Government have made across the board: to improve prevention, which my hon. Friends discussed in interventions; to challenge attitudes and behaviours by taking action early to ensure that the perpetrators of violence are brought to justice; to support victims of abuse in all its forms better by working with partners to reach out across communities; and to ensure that Government support is appropriately tailored to victims’ individual needs.

To pick up on the points made by my hon. Friends the Member for Wirral West (Esther McVey) and for Brentford and Isleworth (Mary Macleod), it is absolutely right that prevention must be at the heart of our approach, as well as breaking the cycle that we as constituency MPs all too often see in action. We can do so by working with children, as my hon. Friend the Member for Wirral West highlighted in her contribution.

I am mindful of hon. Members’ concerns about future funding for services that support victims of domestic violence. I hope that hon. Members will be content to hear that the Government constantly consider ways to strengthen protection for victims and that we have taken a different approach by ring-fencing nearly £40 million of stable funding up to 2015 for specialist local domestic and sexual violence support services and rape crisis centres in England, as well as funding the national domestic violence and stalking helplines. It is the first time that funding has been ring-fenced on a stable basis for domestic and sexual violence victims, and I am clear that local authorities should view funding for services to support victims of domestic violence as essential.

The right hon. Member for Coatbridge, Chryston and Bellshill will also be aware that in Scotland, decisions on funding applications for projects that focus on tackling violence against women will be announced shortly by the Scottish Government. I am pleased, as are key partners such as Scottish Women’s Aid, that funding for violence against women, including victims of domestic abuse, will be maintained throughout the spending review period. I hope that he will welcome that as a concrete commitment.

The right hon. Gentleman’s main point involved housing benefit, but other Members discussed the broader issue of the benefits system, so I will address that first, hopefully providing some of the reassurance that hon. Members seek in these times of change. We heard from the right hon. Member for Stirling (Mrs McGuire), who spoke for the Opposition, about this week’s approval for proposed changes to jobseeker’s allowance regulations. That legislative change will now come into force on 23 April and allow victims of actual or threatened domestic violence who are in receipt of jobseeker’s allowance to be exempted from job-seeking conditions for a period of up to 13 weeks, provided that evidence from an appropriate representative can be produced and that other conditions are met. That will continue with the introduction of universal credit.

It is right that victims of domestic violence who claim JSA or are new to claiming it can spend some time focusing on stabilising their lives. As we have heard from hon. Members today, that is a challenging time for the individuals concerned, and they need time to get their lives and, where applicable, their children’s lives straight. It is also right that they can do so without having to demonstrate that they are actively seeking or available for employment, or face the threat of sanction. I hope that hon. Members will feel that that is a clear sign of the Government’s commitment.

A further sign of how seriously we take the issue is that alternative support remains available via the existing JSA domestic emergency exemption for victims who are either unable or perhaps unwilling to produce evidence. We have a twin-track approach, which is important to note.

While the easements that operate under JSA are, as I have explained, commendable, they are somewhat complex. That is why the Government are already taking steps to clarify them as we move forward with universal credit. That shows our clear commitment in the area, and I hope hon. Members will welcome that.

On the subject of today’s debate, housing benefit, some victims of domestic violence live in a hostel or a refuge. Currently, many, if not all, refuges have their rents met in full through housing benefit, which is usually paid directly to the hostel. Refuges are exempt from the local housing allowance, and residents have their housing benefit worked out using rules that recognise the additional costs that the hon. Member for Stretford and Urmston (Kate Green) talked about in her intervention.

The Government consulted last year on changes to the way in which housing benefit meets the costs of people living in supported housing, such as refuges. Our consultation paper, “Housing benefit reform—Supported housing”, was published on 19 July 2011, and the consultation period ended on 9 October 2011. We are considering the responses to the consultation and intend to bring forward proposals as soon as possible for implementation in 2013. Let me clarify that we do not intend to change the way in which payments of housing benefit are made to people living in hostels or refuges. All tenants who live in the social rented sector, as well as those living in supported housing, normally have housing benefit paid directly to their landlords. That will continue until housing benefit no longer exists and is replaced by universal credit between 2013 and 2017.

[Mrs McGuire]

As well as the process of payment, will the calculations allow hostels to have a higher charge than that which would be commensurate with social housing in the area?

[Maria Miller]

There are a number of specific points, such as the one just made by the right hon. Lady, that I want to go into. I will deal with her point first.

We currently support around 170,000 claimants living in supported accommodation through housing benefit. They receive on average an extra £40 a week in housing benefit in recognition of extra costs. We expect higher payments for that sector to continue. I hope that the right hon. Lady feels that that starts to answer some of her points.

The right hon. Lady also asked several questions about how hostels will be treated under universal credit. Currently, we are considering how we will support housing costs for people in hostels under universal credit. Our consultation is helping to inform that, and we will involve stakeholders in the process before we issue regulations.

The right hon. Lady asked some important questions about people who are subject to the shared accommodation rate. I reassure her that the situation applies to a distinct group of individuals: those who are under 35, on their own, with no children, and moving into private sector accommodation. She is probably already aware that many exemptions are in place for vulnerable groups—for instance, those who receive the severe disability premium.

We have also introduced several further exemptions from this January—for example, for ex-residents of homeless hostels who have received help to resettle in the community. I reassure the right hon. Lady that if there are still individuals who, local authorities feel, require their own space, discretionary housing payments are also available, and they have been increased by some £130 million. That will allow local flexibility and discretion, which can make all the difference in such cases.

Employment Support

Debate between Anne McGuire and Maria Miller

Wednesday 7th March 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mrs McGuire]

I am indeed, Mr Speaker.

I finish by saying to the Minister that in each constituency where there are factories at which redundancies will be made, there are tens of people chasing every job. She made a point about the increase in Access to Work, but that scheme requires jobs. Tonight, 1,700 people do not know whether they will have one in three months’ time.

[Maria Miller]

I am very happy to have come to the House today to discuss our proposals. [Interruption.] Communication is very important on this matter, and many Members have had many conversations with me about Remploy over the past two years. I have already laid a written statement and met many of the MPs affected. Indeed, I have spoken to the right hon. Member for Stirling (Mrs McGuire), and my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State has spoken to the shadow Secretary of State, the right hon. Member for Birmingham, Hodge Hill (Mr Byrne), who is not in his place.

We take staff communications very seriously indeed on a matter such as this. It is not right for the right hon. Member for Stirling to call into question the way in which it has been managed, because my colleagues at Remploy have put great effort into ensuring that disabled people employed by Remploy are well aware of today’s process. Indeed, we have worked closely together throughout the consultation process. As I have said, there were 1,400 submissions, including from disabled people, Opposition Members and staff at Remploy factories.

Most important of all, this Government decided when we came to office to take forward the modernisation plan that Labour Members had put in place. In these very difficult economic times, we could have taken a different decision, but we chose not to. We chose to stick with that plan and see how things progressed. I am afraid that in year four of the modernisation plan, it is clear that the objectives that Labour set out were simply not going to come to fruition and were not realistic. I think some Opposition Members will know that.

The right hon. Lady asked a number of questions, some of which I believe I may have answered in my statement, but I want to ensure that I have covered every point she made. The Remploy board has been fully informed of all the procedures that we have gone through and all the decisions that have been made, and my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State has spoken to his Opposition counterpart to ensure that he was well informed in advance of today. We ensured that the procurement commitments that Labour put in place were taken forward. In fact, we have been working with Remploy for the past two years to attempt to make the modernisation plan work, but we are where we are and these difficult decisions now needed to be taken.

There has been a great deal of discussion by Opposition Members about the number of jobs that are available to disabled people. I should like to put it on record that the employment services arm of Remploy has done a magnificent job of helping disabled people into work. I believe that many hon. Members will agree with that. Indeed, last year, Remploy’s employment services arm supported 20,000 disabled people throughout the country into work, with 2,000 individuals with disabilities in Wales and another 2,000 in Scotland helped into work. Those jobs are available if individuals can get the support and training to access them.

The decisions are not easy, but we are continuing a policy that the previous Administration started. When we came into government, we confirmed that we would continue that plan. The truth is that the Opposition would have had to make those decisions themselves.

We enlisted the help of experts to try to ensure that our decisions were right. Liz Sayce, in her role in Radar, brings to the matter an expertise that many hon. Members will acknowledge. Today, we are taking forward her recommendations, and I am afraid that I cannot understand the tone or the nature of the right hon. Lady’s remarks.

Labour Members should remember that many factories were closed on their watch, and perhaps they did not make the right decisions then. They would have had to face the same choices. Today’s discussion is not about money because, as Opposition Members know, the money and support for specialist disability employment is protected under the Government—£320 million plus an extra £15 million to ensure that the changes that we are making today will result in more disabled people in work, with more money to support them to do that.

Welfare Reform Bill

Debate between Anne McGuire and Maria Miller

Wednesday 1st February 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mrs McGuire]

I would not disagree with the hon. Gentleman. Housing was built in the 1940s and ’50s to deal with the nuclear family that everybody knew at the time. The way in which families have developed, including the growth in the number of single-parent households, was not factored in. That goes for the social rented and private sectors.

[Maria Miller]

rose—

[Mrs McGuire]

The hon. Lady definitely is not getting in—certainly not at the moment.

The hon. Member for Argyll and Bute (Mr Reid) said that there are communities in all nations of this country—smaller communities, but sometimes larger ones—where there is an insufficient supply of houses, which is very true. People might have lived in them all their lives and would be unable physically to move.

[Mrs McGuire]

The hon. Lady makes a valid point.

[Maria Miller]

Will the right hon. Lady give way?

[Mrs McGuire]

All right then.

[Maria Miller]

I thank the right hon. Lady. It is very gracious of her to give way so that I can clarify matters. She will obviously be aware of the new national home swap scheme, which, importantly, will help people to identify housing in other areas, which is what she is talking about. We are also providing funding to councils of some £13 million over the next four years so that they can support under-occupying tenants who wish to move.

The right hon. Lady will also know that there is a great deal of commitment from the Government in terms of helping to build affordable housing: some £4.5 billion will help to deliver up to 170,000 new affordable homes. Those are all ways in which we can make the sort of changes that she wants. Just to clarify, as a lady who was born in a council house—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. This really is an abuse. It is a novelty, in my experience, for a Minister to intervene from the Front Bench reading from a folder. That really will not do. Interventions should be brief, and it would be good if the House—both sides—could get back into the courteous mood in which it found itself yesterday and for part of today.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Anne McGuire and Maria Miller

Monday 23rd January 2012 Commons Chamber

[Maria Miller]

My hon. Friend will be aware that the new personal independence payment assessment will be separate from the WCA, and that any contracts that are in place for Atos are not at all connected with the new assessment that we need for PIP. In fact, a formal competition document is going out today to start the commercial process. To reassure her about the involvement of disabled people, I say that we already have an implementation development group, which involves disabled people closely at every step of the way.

[Mrs Anne McGuire (Stirling) (Lab)]

Just for balance, I should like to put on record my thanks to those who gave us the Spartacus report, which was a challenging document and took apart some of the Government’s points.

The Dilnot report recommended that universal disability benefits for people of all ages should continue as now. However, under the new PIP the Government are scrapping low-rate care. Some 500,000 people, and probably more, could face escalating unmet needs that will result in pressure on council care services. What specific discussions has the Minister, as lead for the Office for Disability Issues, had on the changes with her colleagues in the Department of Health and the Department for Communities and Local Government, and with the Scottish and Welsh Governments, and what action has she taken as a result of any conversations?

[Maria Miller]

The right hon. Lady will know that we have been having very close conversations with both the devolved authorities and the Department of Health, and she is right that we have to consider the changes that are happening in the round. She should also be mindful of the fact that the changes that we are making under the PIP will remove something that we inherited from the previous Government—£600 million a year going out in overpayments to people whose conditions have changed and who no longer need the same level of support.

Remploy

Debate between Anne McGuire and Maria Miller

Thursday 15th December 2011 Westminster Hall

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Maria Miller)]

It is a great pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Benton, and under that of Mr Havard, who is no longer in his seat. I congratulate the right hon. Member for Cynon Valley (Ann Clwyd) on securing this debate and right hon. and hon. Members on making a strong case on their constituents’ behalf for the importance of providing the appropriate support for disabled people to get into employment. I, too, note that many people in this room today other than right hon. and hon. Members have an interest in that.

It is also important to note how much time hon. Members have taken to come talk to me. My hon. Friend the Member for Eastbourne (Stephen Lloyd), the hon. Member for Swansea West (Geraint Davies) and the right hon. Members for Wythenshawe and Sale East (Paul Goggins) and for Cynon Valley have all taken a great deal of their own time to ensure that they put their views in a measured and sensible manner, and I thank them all.

It was interesting to follow the right hon. Member for Stirling (Mrs McGuire), who speaks for the Opposition. Having been in my place, she is right to say that we face a dilemma. She stated that she understands the tensions. I have no doubt that she does, having done this job before me, but what was not clear is exactly what the Opposition’s position is. She might feel that she has made her position clear, but it was not clear to me.

[Mrs McGuire]

I have made it clear that we expected the five-year plan that was in place to run its course. The problem is that it is the Minister who has to wrestle with the decisions, but I have made our position very clear.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Anne McGuire and Maria Miller

Monday 28th November 2011 Commons Chamber

[Maria Miller]

As the hon. Lady knows, we work on an ongoing basis with employers through a number of forums. In particular, I am aware of the work that an organisation such as BT does to support its employees in such matters. It is by showcasing that sort of good practice that we will get a better understanding more broadly among employers.

[Mrs Anne McGuire (Stirling) (Lab)]

Given that evidence of public understanding of disability benefits is often hazy, does the Minister with responsibility for disabled people agree with the Secretary of State when he said earlier this month in a comment in a daily newspaper:

“At the moment . . . millions of pounds are paid out in . . . benefits to people who have simply filled out a form”,

thereby giving credence to yet another negative and erroneous story about disabled people? If she does not, what efforts has she made personally to discover who briefed the story, and what action has she or her Secretary of State taken to correct the facts in this instance and to challenge future stories of a similar ilk?

[Maria Miller]

The right hon. Lady will know, from her time working in the Department for Work and Pensions, that there are indeed many people who simply fill in a form and receive a benefit, and that we are not making the right sort of assessment to ensure that that is correct in future. She may also be aware that £600 million is given out each year for disability living allowance, which is an over-assessment of people’s needs.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Anne McGuire and Maria Miller

Monday 24th October 2011 Commons Chamber

[Maria Miller]

I agree that the work of the Multiple Sclerosis Society is to be applauded, and I am sure that the Lancaster, Morecambe and district branch will join many other organisations in welcoming the measures in the Welfare Reform Bill, which is currently in the other place, including universal credit. Those measures will address the unacceptable imbalances inherent in the current welfare system, to ensure that people suffering from fluctuating conditions such as MS cannot be written off to a lifetime of dependency in future.

[Mrs Anne McGuire (Stirling) (Lab)]

Department for Work and Pensions research on disability living allowance in work has indicated that those receiving DLA are, on average, more severely impaired than others and have a greater likelihood of multiple disabilities, including mental health conditions. Additionally, they are disadvantaged in the labour market because of the types of their impairment, and carry the greatest employment disadvantage.

The new personal independence payment assessment has been criticised by 23 leading disability organisations as being too medicalised and not taking into account the social and environmental barriers that disadvantage disabled people in the jobs market. Will the Minister share with us just how many disabled people she expects to get back into work as a result of her DLA proposals, given that the only figure that we have on the record is that the Government want to make a 20% cut to the DLA budget?

[Maria Miller]

I am somewhat surprised that the right hon. Lady tries to link disability living allowance to returning to work, given that in the past she has held the position that I hold now. It is absolutely clear that DLA, and indeed the PIP, which will take over from it, are not linked to work. I should think we would want to make that clear to people who are listening to these questions.

Welfare Reform Bill

Debate between Anne McGuire and Maria Miller

Wednesday 9th March 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mrs McGuire]

I agree wholeheartedly with my hon. Friend. I believe that this is one of the issues causing the greatest concern among individuals and families.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Maria Miller)]

rose—

[Mrs McGuire]

If the Minister is going to clarify what the Secretary of State said earlier, I would be delighted to give way to her.

[Maria Miller]

I just wanted to clarify that these measures do not affect children.

[Mrs McGuire]

In that case, we can take the age forward and talk about a deaf-blind adult. Our case about people whose impairments or disabilities will not change and who can be assessed as such is not at all diminished, as they will still have to go through this review.

The type of review is also an important issue. For a long time, disabled people in this country have fought hard to be recognised as part of a social model of disability. What we are seeing now is the introduction of an assessment by a medical professional. Is it any wonder that disabled people out there are beginning to think that all those things for which they fought so long and so hard—the achievements they have made over the last 15 years, with cross-party support—are going to be thrown on the scrapheap? That, I think, is the danger posed by this Bill, and I have highlighted the questions that disabled people are asking.

The Minister might well be thinking that all this is a matter of hyperbole. I do not think it is, and I know that many of my hon. Friends would agree, because we are hearing daily quite tragic stories about people who are terrified about what is going to happen. They are worried not necessarily because the Government have bad intent, but because the Government are not explaining exactly what is in the Bill. I do not think that the Minister has bad intent and I certainly do not think that the Secretary of State has, but given that they are embarking on something that will radically affect individual people and families, we must have a better Bill than the one before us.

The Secretary of State is often cited as saying that this Bill amounts to the greatest change in the welfare system since Beveridge. The reason why Beveridge worked and was sustained for so long was that it was about engagement with the whole of society. It was about a contract that people recognised, knowing that if they put something into society, they could occasionally get something back—not just a cushion, but something that gave them a participatory role in that social contract. What we have now is a deconstruction of those Beveridge proposals. What we have is a system that effectively tells people that they cannot have welfare unless they meet all the criteria, which are not even known, in a Bill that is far more skeletal than many of—indeed, any of—the welfare Bills brought before this House.

We should not give the Bill its Second Reading today. If the Minister can tell us in her summing up that all those issues will be dealt with in Committee, we might be able to give the Government the benefit of the doubt later in the process. I welcome, however, the view of my right hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham, Hodge Hill, the shadow Secretary of State, that if the Bill is not radically changed and if its contents are not confirmed, we should not support it even on Third Reading.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Anne McGuire and Maria Miller

Monday 14th February 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mrs Anne McGuire (Stirling) (Lab)]

Given that transport facilities offered by residential care establishments normally relate to social and care needs, not independent choice, could the Minister explain how the removal of disability living allowance from those in residential care is consistent with article 20 of the United Nations convention on the rights of persons with disabilities, to which this country is a signatory? Has she assessed her policy against the commitment to the convention?

[Maria Miller]

I can assure the right hon. Lady that we have assessed our policies in the right ways. I reiterate what I have said to her before, which is that the policy is trying to remove overlaps, not mobility.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Anne McGuire and Maria Miller

Monday 14th June 2010 Commons Chamber

[Maria Miller]

I thank my hon. Friend for her question and also pay tribute to the Royal British Legion and its work, because it plays a vital role in supporting disabled people into work and helping those who are furthest from the workplace to acquire the skills that they need. The specialist knowledge of such organisations is absolutely vital and will be an important part of the Work programme that the employment Minister, my right hon. Friend the Member for Epsom and Ewell (Chris Grayling) has already announced, because those organisations have the on-the-ground knowledge of how best to support disabled people.

[Mrs Anne McGuire (Stirling) (Lab)]

As a former Minister for disabled people, I wish the Minister well in standing up for the rights of disabled people throughout government. Will she therefore tell me what plans there are for the access to work programme? Will the Government honour the previous Government’s commitment, or will access to work disappear amid the one, single Work programme?

[Maria Miller]

I thank the right hon. Lady for her kind comments and congratulate her on the work that she has done to support disabled people. It is absolutely vital that we recognise that a reform of work programmes in this country is long overdue. The Work programme will meet a great many people’s needs, but not absolutely everybody’s, so specialist programmes such as residential training colleges, Remploy’s work and others will continue in order to meet the needs of particular disabled people.