Syrian Refugees
Ann Clwyd Excerpts(10 years, 9 months ago)
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Ann Clwyd (Cynon Valley) (Lab)
I welcome what the Home Secretary has announced today, but I do not quite understand why we are not working hand in hand with the UNHCR resettlement scheme. Is it because under that scheme Germany has committed to taking at least 10,000 refugees? Will we be able to match that figure?
Child Sexual Exploitation
Ann Clwyd Excerpts(12 years ago)
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Ann Clwyd (Cynon Valley) (Lab)
I congratulate all those who have spoken in the debate. In particular, I congratulate the hon. Member for Oxford West and Abingdon (Nicola Blackwood) on introducing it so excellently and all my hon. Friends.
In 1996, I tabled four early-day motions. To do that, I had to block parliamentary business two nights running. As Members can imagine, I got into considerable trouble with my party’s Whips, as well as Conservative Whips, but that was the only way I could get on the record what had happened in north Wales, particularly in the Bryn Estyn children’s home. The EDM that I re-tabled last Friday contains the gist of the complaint at that time. Back then, however, the subject disappeared from the Order Paper. The moment the inquiry was announced, it shut down discussion in this place for four years. That is why I thought it so important at the time to table the EDMs.
Someone suggested having a royal commission. I was on a royal commission. It took three years to report. The Waterhouse inquiry took four years. So a royal commission need not necessarily take as long as any other inquiry. I do think, however, that an overarching inquiry is extremely important.
The Clwyd county council report commissioned at the time laid bare the north Wales child abuse scandal. Had it been published at the time, it would have been very useful and things would have moved much faster. The report was suppressed, mainly because the council insurers demanded that the first full investigation into the care home scandals in north Wales be pulped. I hope that in future any council that wants to publish a report, on whatever subject, will be protected from its own insurers. I do not think that has yet been resolved. I have checked with the Library and it is still the case that insurers of a council can put pressure on it not to publish a report. That needs to be put right.
I have seen the Jillings report. There were only 12 copies, but people made copies of those 12 copies. I do not have one in my possession, because I had to hand it back, but I read things in it at the time. For instance, the then newly appointed North Wales chief constable refused to meet the inquiry or help with access to the police major incident database. The inquiry said:
“We were disappointed at the apparent impossibility of obtaining a breakdown of data. We are unable to identify the overall extent of the allegations received by the police in the many witness statements which they took.”
Some 130 boxes of material handed over by the council to the police were not made available to the panel. The council did not allow the inquiry to place a notice in the local press seeking information, because this was considered to be unacceptable to the insurers—it is interesting that the insurers of the county council were also the insurers of North Wales police. Mr Jillings was clear last week about what he had discovered back then:
“What we found was horrific and on a significant scale. If the events in children’s homes in North Wales were to be translated into a film, Oliver Twist would seem relatively benign.”
According to Jillings, the scale of what happened and how it was allowed
“are a disgrace, and stain on the history of child care in this country.”
Mark Pritchard (The Wrekin) (Con)
The right hon. Lady is raising some serious points, but when she uses the generic term “north Wales” or refers to the country, does she also accept that the majority of children’s homes—child care facilities, orphanages or whatever term one wants to use—are still run, and always were run, by loving and caring individuals, and that although these are serious allegations, they are not as widespread as some might suggest?
Ann Clwyd
I thank the hon. Gentleman for his intervention, although I am not as certain as he is that he can make such a categorical statement. I think there is a lot going on in this country still which we need to get to the bottom of.
The Jillings report paints an alarming picture of a system in which physical and sexual violence were common, from beatings and bullying to indecent assault and rape. Some staff linked to abuse may have been allowed to resign or retire early. The insurers suggested that the chair of the council’s social services committee—Malcolm King, a brave whistleblower—should be sacked if he spoke out, writing:
“Draconian as it may seem, you may have to consider with the elected members whether they wish to remove him from office if he insists on having the freedom to speak.”
Despite such obstructions, the panel stuck to its brief to investigate child care in Clwyd in the wake of a number of allegations and court cases involving carers. Most of the allegations covered the period 1980 to 1988, and a four-year police inquiry saw 2,600 statements taken and 300 cases sent to the Crown Prosecution Service. Eventually, eight men were charged and six convicted.
A key issue in north Wales continues to be whether there was a paedophile ring at work. One internal Clwyd council report from the time—like Jillings, unpublished—said:
“There remain worrying current instances of conviction and prosecution for sexual offences of persons who are known to have worked together in child care establishments both in the county and… other parts of the north-west”.
The report continued:
“These suggest, that abuse could have been happening unabated for many years and, that there could be operating a league or ring of paedophiles who help one another find sources and situations where abuse can be perpetrated and the addiction fed.”
Susan Elan Jones (Clwyd South) (Lab)
I am most grateful to my right hon. Friend for all that she has done to highlight the historical instances of child sex abuse in care homes in north Wales. Does she agree that one of the most chilling features of what happened is the institutional nature of the crime? Those crimes were not right, even in the 1970s and 1980s; it is not just that society has changed. They involved out-and-out exploitation by people who thought that their victims were weaker than themselves. That is one of the things that makes what happened in the north Wales care homes so shocking.
Ann Clwyd
I thank my hon. Friend for that intervention.
There were allegations, too, of abusers outside the care system. The report goes on to state:
“There were numerous claims and suggestions that senior public figures including the police and political figures might have been involved in the abuse of young people”.
I feel strongly about this matter because children from my constituency of Cynon Valley, in south Wales, were taken to that care home in north Wales, a long way from their families and friends. I put a notice in my local paper, and six young men answered the advert. This was before the Waterhouse inquiry was set up. I took detailed statements from the four of them who said that they were ready to talk to me. I took a long time to interview them individually, and I found the allegations that they made, and the descriptions of their experiences, totally emotionally draining. If I felt that, it is impossible to imagine what they must have felt.
All those young men have been damaged in some way. Their experience affected their future relationships with people. Some of them got into trouble with the law. Of the many young men who gave evidence to Jillings, to the police or to the Waterhouse inquiry, a shocking number have committed suicide, have self-harmed or have been killed in mysterious circumstances. That is one of the many reasons why we need an overarching inquiry. It could be a royal commission, as has been suggested, but whatever happens, we need an overarching inquiry; we do not want any more piecemeal inquiries.
One good thing that came out of Waterhouse was that the Welsh Assembly quickly appointed a Children’s Commissioner for Wales. In the past week, 36 people have contacted the commissioner’s office, of whom 22 have spoken of the abuse that they suffered at Bryn Estyn in Wrexham and at the network of homes connected to it. The other 14 have spoken of historical abuse in other settings.
Mark Tami (Alyn and Deeside) (Lab)
My right hon. Friend tells a powerful story. Does she agree that one of the major problems was that nobody believed the young people, and that they eventually felt that there was no point in trying to fight against the terrible things that were being done to them, because the whole system was geared against them?
Ann Clwyd
My hon. Friend’s constituency covers some of the Wrexham area, as does that of my hon. Friend the Member for Clwyd South (Susan Elan Jones). They both know full well the anguish felt by the many young people who would have liked to give evidence but who were just not listened to and will not be listened to. I hope that things will change. I have mentioned those people who have contacted the Children’s Commissioner, and it is known that a number of others, perhaps dozens, have contacted politicians and solicitors to report abuse and to ask for help.
In an interview with The Guardian, Mr Towler—the commissioner—expressed concern that the intense speculation over rumours of a politician’s involvement meant that there was a danger of the victims being forgotten. He said that what happened in north Wales in the 1970s and ’80s was a consequence of children and young people not being listened to. The Children’s Commissioner said the victims’ memories were
“as clear as if it happened yesterday…we say it’s historical abuse, but actually it’s alive. This is not an archaeological dig, we’re talking to people for whom this is terribly alive. People are incredibly emotional—we have had tears, anger, relief. They’re saying, I’ve waited 30 years for this opportunity. I’ve also had conversations with people going through that emotion”.
It is not a dead issue in the minds of these young people; it is very much alive. There remains the fundamental concern that justice for many of these victims has still not been achieved.
I pay tribute again to Alison Taylor, who was one of the first whistleblowers in Gwynedd, and to Councillor Malcolm King, who was the chair of social services of Clwyd county council. They were both outstandingly brave, and Alison Taylor was sacked because nobody believed her. Only 12 copies of the Jillings report were published. I have urged for several days that it should be published. It is in the hands of the Wales Office, where it was kept at the time. Copies do exist, and I now believe it essential for it to be published. I also pay tribute to the newspapers, particularly to The Independent and The Guardian, to the BBC, ITV and many other broadcasting organisations and the press, who have helped to bring these iniquities to light.
Mr Browne
My hon. Friend makes a good point. We have to understand how the agencies of the state can respond more effectively, and how we can better deter potential perpetrators. I strongly agree with her point about victims, however, and I hope I will give her reasons to be encouraged in my speech.
In relation to north Wales, Mrs Justice Macur will lead an urgent independent review into whether the original Waterhouse inquiry was properly constituted and did its job. The arrangements for the review are a matter for Mrs Justice Macur, but the Ministry of Justice and the Wales Office will provide support to her, and all relevant material will be made available to support the investigation.
Finally, hon. Members will be aware that the Deputy Children’s Commissioner is one year into her two-year inquiry into gang and group-associated child sexual exploitation—this has been mentioned earlier—and that her report, with interim findings on the nature and scale of this appalling crime, will be published next week. The Government will want to consider her recommendations carefully.
Mr Browne
My understanding is that that is a matter for the Wales Office rather than the Home Office, so I will refer the right hon. Lady’s point, about which she spoke powerfully a moment ago, to my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Wales so that he can judge what is appropriate in this case. Of course we are already holding an inquiry into the inquiry that came after that report, so there is a thorough body of work here. We want to make sure that nothing is covered up and that lessons are learnt.
Hon. Members will, of course, be aware of a number of ongoing investigations into organised child sexual exploitation and a number a recent court cases that have brought perpetrators of this hateful crime to justice. Many hon. Members have touched on those issues already. Child sexual exploitation is a particularly pernicious form of child abuse and it must not be tolerated. Children are being groomed and sexually harmed and abused, by individuals acting alone or in organised and networked ways. This is not exclusive to any single culture, community, race or religion; it happens in all areas of the country and can take many different forms. That point has been powerfully made by my hon. Friend the Member for Keighley (Kris Hopkins) and others.
However, we can see, separate from the cases and accusations that I have mentioned, that a pattern is emerging in relation to a particular model of organised, serious abuse and sexual exploitation of children that predominantly involves British Asian men grooming and abusing white British girls. We are very clear that political sensitivities must not get in the way of preventing and uncovering child abuse. We are committed to dealing with this terrible form of criminal activity, just as we are committed to dealing with all other forms of child abuse. There are lessons to be learnt when things go wrong, but police forces are actively trying to tackle this issue, with an increasing number of cases being brought before the courts. I welcome that higher profile, and the police should not feel impeded in tackling this appalling crime, regardless of its nature and regardless of the perpetrators—regardless of their ethnicity, age or any other considerations. The police should feel free to act as they see appropriate in the interests of the child and the wider public interest.
Police Reform and Social Responsibility Bill
Ann Clwyd Excerpts(13 years, 11 months ago)
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Mrs May
I thank my hon. Friend for making that point. It is certainly clear that the current process for applying for an arrest warrant has deterred some public figures from overseas from coming to the UK. The Bill will make the process fairer and safer by requiring the consent of the Director of Public Prosecutions before a warrant can be issued.
Mrs May
The key issue that the DPP will look at is the basis for the request for the arrest warrant and the extent to which there is a genuine basis for bringing it forward. He will look at the prospects for a successful prosecution and balance that issue in the view that he takes. At the moment, the threshold requirement is significantly less than would normally be required in bringing a successful prosecution.
Ann Clwyd (Cynon Valley) (Lab)
I oppose clause 151, which is entitled “Restriction on issue of arrest warrants in private prosecutions”. I do so as chair of the Back-Bench all-party parliamentary human rights group, of which the hon. Member for Carshalton and Wallington (Tom Brake) is treasurer. I hope that my arguments will prevail on him, and that he too will see that to change the position in that regard would be invidious.
Tom Brake
I think that if the Director of Public Prosecutions, having taken on this responsibility, is given resources enabling him or her to process a request for an arrest warrant in a very short time, all the right hon. Lady’s concerns may disappear. If they do not go away, will she explain why?
Ann Clwyd
I hope to, if I am able to develop my thoughts.
Much of our criminal law is territorial, applying to acts committed in England and Wales or by British people, but we have agreed to prosecute those who commit crimes, such as grave breaches of the Geneva Conventions Act 1957 and torture and taking hostages here, wherever or by whoever those crimes are committed. That is universal jurisdiction intended by all the countries who accede to it to ensure that there is no international hiding place for perpetrators of grave crime. We have a duty to seek out the culprits, and either to extradite them or to prosecute them here. For example, in 2005 an Afghan warlord, Zardad, was successfully prosecuted in the United Kingdom for torture offences abroad.
In the United Kingdom, it is not only the police who can initiate proceedings; any individual can apply to a magistrate for a summons or warrant to bring someone to court. The test for the magistrate is whether there is prima facie evidence of an offence on the part of the person named. Many cases involving serious offences cannot proceed beyond that stage without the Attorney-General's consent. I have a little experience of that, having chaired Indict, a human rights organisation which for seven years gathered evidence against Iraqi war criminals, many of whom are appearing in an Iraqi court or have already been sentenced. I have no time to go into what happened then, but in the current circumstances it is extremely difficult to obtain an arrest warrant. It took two years just to discuss the case of Tariq Aziz with the Attorney-General and with Scotland Yard. It was then thrown back to the Attorney-General, and we did not secure a decision. There was a strong possibility that Tariq Aziz, who travelled a good deal, had come to this country, perhaps to spend Christmas with George Galloway, who had spent Christmas with him in the past.
We did not manage to obtain that arrest warrant. English law does not allow arrest warrants to be granted on flimsy evidence, but although our evidence was very strong indeed, we still could not obtain one. Only two of the 10 private arrest warrant applications made in the past 10 years have been granted. Nothing needs fixing, as nothing has been broken.
Universal jurisdiction is a vital, agreed-on basis for tackling impunity in states that do not sign up to the International Criminal Court.
Mr Slaughter
My right hon. Friend clearly knows what she is talking about. I do not know whether she was as dismayed as I was by the fact that the Home Secretary clearly did not know what she was talking about when she was asked what standard of evidence the DPP would require. Is it the prima facie test, the full code test by the prosecutor, or something in between? Perhaps my right hon. Friend, like me, hopes that the Minister will clarify the matter in summing up the debate. If the answer is a full prosecutorial test, that effectively means that no warrants will ever be issued, because that standard of evidence will not have been gathered at the arrest stage.
Ann Clwyd
I am grateful to my hon. Friend for reinforcing that point, on which I attempted to extract more information from the Home Secretary. I am afraid that I did not get an answer however, and I too hope this might be explained further in the summing up.
The 1949 Geneva conventions require us to seek out and prosecute absolutely anybody suspected of committing war crimes. Similar duties exist under the torture convention, where we also have a duty to apply criminal law uniformly. A special legal or procedural system for those cases that is different from the rest of criminal law could breach that obligation. Victims securing the arrest of visiting suspects fulfil an important rule-of-law purpose. No state inference should bar their access to courts. As Lord Wilberforce said in 1978, the right to bring private prosecutions remains
“a valuable constitutional safeguard against inertia or partiality on the part of the authority”.
Lord Diplock similarly described it as
“a useful constitutional safeguard against capricious, corrupt or biased failure or refusal of those authorities to prosecute offenders against the criminal law”.
Michael Ellis
Does the right hon. Lady not accept that many countries with similar legal systems to our own—Canada, for example—have established a similar system? In the Canadian context, the Attorney-General or deputy Attorney-General has to give leave before the exercise of their universal jurisdiction power. Many other countries have similarly fettered the misuse of universal jurisdiction, which has often taken the course of party political or other politically biased purposes, and they have not had any difficulties in respect of the point the right hon. Lady is making. Where Lord Diplock and others refer to interference of the state, they did not apply it to this test.
Ann Clwyd
I hope the hon. Gentleman will seek to catch Mr Speaker’s eye, as he obviously has a speech in the making. I have experience of trying to get an indictment against some of the Iraqi war criminals in other countries such as Sweden, Norway, Switzerland and Belgium. The closest we came to getting an indictment was in Belgium, but that was thwarted at the last moment because somebody brought an indictment against Sharon, and the Belgian Government changed the law. Sometimes the pressures can be very different, but we do not have time to go into the details of this now.
Mr Slaughter
Does my right hon. Friend agree that the difference between what is being proposed and what happens in Canada is that in Canada the DPP is entitled to appear and present evidence for or against the issuing of a warrant, but the decision is a judicial one? What is being proposed here is wholly different, although the hon. Member for Northampton North (Michael Ellis) perhaps does not understand that. The decision is made by the state, before the court has a chance to consider the matter.
Ann Clwyd
I am grateful for my hon. Friend’s expert knowledge of this issue.
Senior district judges are trusted to deal with highly sensitive terrorism and extradition cases. They are very highly thought of—I would like to hear anybody say they are not highly thought of—and their role should not be undermined, but that is precisely what the Government are attempting to do. These judges are known to have thrown out cases against Israeli Defence Ministers Mofaz in 2004 and Barak in 2009, plus several cases against Mugabe. Eight refusals out of 10 means the system is already robust enough to weed out illegitimate cases. Indeed, there is not a single example of the current system failing to filter out cases that are an abuse of process. What is the evidence that the judge acted wrongly in the two cases in question? Does the Crown Prosecution Service have a view? Perhaps we will hear.
Some people are, of course, wildly exaggerating the real impact of the current law on them and officials from other countries. We know very well that many people from other countries who are currently in government—Presidents, Prime Ministers, Foreign Ministers and perhaps sometimes Defence Ministers—are free from any arrest warrants of this kind and can travel freely. In fact, absolute immunity applies to serving Presidents, Prime Ministers, Foreign Ministers and so forth, so I do not know what the problem is. It is a problem of the Government’s own invention, and I am sorry my Front-Bench team seems to be going along with them at the moment as does the coalition partner—although the hon. Member for Carshalton and Wallington might like to indicate whether he has changed his mind again. I think they are misled and we do a disservice to the many people all over the world who have been injured in some way by some of the people who can clearly be identified as war criminals.
Oral Answers to Questions
Ann Clwyd Excerpts(14 years, 2 months ago)
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Ann Clwyd (Cynon Valley) (Lab)
17. What resources her Department has allocated to enforcement of the law of female genital mutilation.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for the Home Department (Lynne Featherstone)
I pay tribute to the right hon. Lady for her tireless campaigning on this extremely serious issue.
The Government are committed to developing a strategy to tackle violence against women and girls, including female genital mutilation. Legislation alone cannot eliminate the practice, so our resources will be aimed at raising awareness of the law on female genital mutilation, and of the health implications, among communities and front-line practitioners.
Ann Clwyd
I thank the Minister for her answer, but it was not satisfactory. Since 2003, when my private Member’s Bill tightening legislation on the issue was passed, there have been no prosecutions, although according to health professionals and the police, the practice is increasing in this country. Events such as FGM cutting parties are taking place here. This is a crime against women. When will the Government catch the criminals?
Lynne Featherstone
I agree with the right hon. Lady—although I should point out that we came to office only recently, and that 2003 was seven years ago—and I have pursued the question of why no prosecutions have taken place since the passing of the Act in 2003.
There has been a fair amount of progress. A good many investigations are taking place, and each year there is an increase in the number of investigations. There are various reasons for the fact that no cases have proceeded to the courts. I have no doubt that if a case were referred to the Crown Prosecution Service, the CPS would proceed with it; however, some victims and their families state that the female genital mutilation was carried out before the victims came to the United Kingdom, and some victims are too young to give evidence. Problems may also be caused by diplomatic immunity and community barriers. Although female genital mutilation was banned in Egypt two years ago, nine out of 10 women and children are still being subjected to it. It is on awareness that our resources must be concentrated, but I agree that we should pursue the question of why there have been no prosecutions.