Fishing Industry

Debate between Angus Brendan MacNeil and Frank Doran

Thursday 12th December 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Frank Doran (Aberdeen North) (Lab)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered the fishing industry.

I welcome the Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, the hon. Member for Camborne and Redruth (George Eustice), the new fisheries Minister, to his first annual fisheries debate. There was a time when these debates were fairly rowdy affairs, but I think he will find that it is a bit more sedate now. I suppose that is a reflection of the decline of the industry.

However, fishing is still extremely important. The industry is responsible for about 1% of GDP. There are about 6,500 vessels in the fishing fleet throughout the UK. It still employs 12,500 fishermen, nearly 7,000 in England and Wales, 5,000 in Scotland, and 700 in Northern Ireland. It is clearly an industry that benefits the country in a range of ways, not just economically—for example, the health properties of fish are well known. It is important that we keep a vibrant and viable fishing industry.

Of the top 10 ports for landings in the UK, three are in England and seven are in Scotland. That shows the strength of the Scottish fleet. Peterhead, which on last year’s figures landed over 110,000 tonnes of fish, is way ahead of every other port. Given the volume of fish landed in Peterhead, it is no surprise that the Grampian region, where my constituency is, dominates the processing industry, along with Humberside. My own city of Aberdeen was once the No. 1 port, but that was many years ago, and most of the harbour where the fishing boats used to deliver fish is now given over to the oil and gas industry. That is a very significant change.

I am grateful to the Backbench Business Committee for allowing time for this debate. It was once provided in Government time, but for a number of years now the Backbench Business Committee has been the route for us to secure it. It has been traditional to commemorate those who were killed in the industry in the performance of their work. The latest figures I have are for 2012 and they show an improvement. Six deaths and 44 reportable injuries are slightly below the norm for the industry, but that is still a serious number of accidents. I know that efforts are being made, supported by Government, to improve the safety record in the North sea, but it is still a major problem.

I want to focus on two issues that are of major concern to the industry. The first is the serious consequences of the impasse between us, the European Union and Iceland with regard to the way in which Iceland and, to a lesser extent, the Faroes have been exploiting the mackerel and pelagic fish in their area. The Minister will by now be well aware of the processes that take place during the fishing year: surveys are conducted and data collected and analysed, and the results are passed on to scientists, who give us advice on the health of stocks and what tonnages may be fished. The European Commission then presents us with a policy statement of intention and approach, and we go through a few more stages before conducting negotiations with Norway about the common species we share. The Administrations of Iceland and the Faroes are also involved in that.

Those negotiations with Norway have not taken place this year, so it would be helpful if the Minister could give an indication of when they are likely to be held. The industry’s view is that there will be no opportunity for the Commission to discuss the quotas and decide on the total allowable catches until the bilateral discussions with Norway and other countries have taken place.

The likeliest estimate, according to the reports I have read, is that that will happen towards the end of January. That means that our fishing fleet is expected to cope and survive through the difficulties they face for a whole month of the fishing year without knowing what their TACs are for the year. It is important to know exactly when discussions will be held with Norway in particular, and when the TACs will be fixed, so that there can be some certainty. Many boats require refurbishment and maintenance and some fleets even need to acquire new boats, so those figures are crucial for them to be able to get the necessary loans and help from the banks.

This is a major problem for those based onshore. Aberdeen cannot be said to have a fleet anymore—it is virtually non-existent—but it is still a big centre for processing and our processors depend on the stocks that are brought ashore. Given that the fish are among the most popular in sales terms—including cod, haddock, North sea herring, North sea mackerel, whiting, plaice and saithe—a chain of problems and responsibilities needs to be taken into consideration.

The other major issue I want to focus on is reform of the common fisheries policy. Over the past few years, as this process wound its way slowly through all the stages it needed to go through, there was real optimism that progress would be made towards a new type of fishing and a new management and regulation regime in the North sea in particular and right across the waters around the UK and beyond. The industry is, however, becoming more and more aware of the very difficult relationship that now exists between the European Commission and the European Parliament. It is absolutely right to have an element of democracy and to ensure that the Parliament is aware of the issues and is involved. I am not privy to the detail of that relationship, but its consequences have been reported to me by fishing organisations and fishermen, and there are concerns about some of the most important parts of the policy reforms.

The first concern is about regionalisation, on which there seems to be a major impasse. I have had a report from the National Federation of Fishermen’s Organisations on its serious concerns. It states:

“How cooperation between member states at regional-seas level and close cooperation of regional advisory councils in the formulation of fisheries policy will work in practice are open questions...And the clock is ticking on the deadlines set by the European institutions.”

Will the Minister update us on that?

Another concern relates to landing obligations. Everyone is in favour of a policy to reduce or extinguish discards, but the practicalities of getting it into operation show that real problems need to be addressed.

[Mr Angus Brendan MacNeil (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP)]

The hon. Gentleman mentioned discards. I know of a boat on the west coast of Scotland that in September and October sadly dumped about 400 boxes of spurdog, because there was no quota to land that species. I asked the previous Minister, the hon. Member for Newbury (Richard Benyon), what exactly this part of the discards policy means for that particular species, and the answer was to return them to the sea, even though they were dead. Should there not be some sort of quota allocation for by-catch spurdog, because dumping it back into the sea puts pressure on other shark fisheries worldwide? The system is perverse. Some fish are dead already, but that causes other fish to be fished in other places.

[Mr Doran]

The hon. Gentleman makes a valid point. All of us are ashamed of the level of discards, but at the end of the day, that has been part—

Fisheries

Debate between Angus Brendan MacNeil and Frank Doran

Thursday 6th December 2012 Westminster Hall

[Mr Doran]

I could not agree more with my hon. Friend, who makes a point that I want to make myself. Some co-ordination in Government on safety, and on other matters, would be appropriate.

Some vessel owners do very well out of the fishing industry, but others struggle. For most it is feast or famine, and in recent years, famine has become much more prevalent. UK-based labour is more expensive, but it is also in short supply in many areas. In the north-east of Scotland, many men who would have gone in to the fishing industry have steadier, better-paid and safer jobs in the oil and gas industry. I urge the Minister to consider the issues that we are discussing and to work together with other relevant Departments and the devolved Administrations to look into these problems, and ensure that whatever has gone wrong is dealt with.

[Mr Angus Brendan MacNeil (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP)]

The hon. Gentleman mentions the introduction or the use of men from, in particular, the Philippines in the fishing industry. Surely one approach is for the Government to recognise their skills properly and allow them into the country with work visas. As the hon. Gentleman has pointed out, the indigenous labour in the fishing industry often moves on to jobs in other sectors, such as cable-laying in the North sea.

[Mr Doran]

I am not sure that that is the problem, because I know from previous involvement that part of the solution was to ensure that people who required transit visas—most of them are operating outside the 12-mile limit—obtained them, and a time limit was then put in place to ensure that the situation was not exploited. It is a serious, complex problem that requires proper consideration.

It is also worth pointing out that the industry will face new problems as we prepare for the possibility of a new common fisheries policy, with—we hope—much more local control and involvement. There could not be a better time to take a close look at the industry and help to shape it for the new challenges that it will face under a new CFP. At the same time, it would allow us to address the problems that have beset the industry for far too long—poor safety, illegal fishing and exploitation of foreign labour—and perhaps create an environment in which our young people can see opportunities for a good and stable career.

Scotland and the Union

Debate between Angus Brendan MacNeil and Frank Doran

Thursday 29th November 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Frank Doran (Aberdeen North) (Lab)]

Our debates on Scottish issues are often tribal, so I was not surprised by the comments of the hon. Member for Perth and North Perthshire (Pete Wishart) or the degree of fundamentalism he showed in his speech, although I was surprised at his arrogance and his assumption that after an independence referendum the Scottish people would enter some sort of nirvana. That is not quite consistent with our history at any time I can recall.

The way the hon. Gentleman approached the whole issue underlines one of the major problems with this debate: the lack of fact. If we look ahead at what sort of country an independent Scotland might be—and we need to, because that is one of the things that anyone taking the referendum seriously would want to know—we can see what the various sides of the argument are presenting us with. What the Scottish Government are presenting us with at the moment is: “We’ll keep the monarch”, “We’ll keep the pound sterling”—perhaps—“and the Bank of England as our central bank”, and “We’ll remain part of the EU,” although that is still an open question. I was quite taken by what Mr Barroso—in effect, the chief executive of the European Union, who should know a thing or two about these things—said about an independent Scotland having to reapply. Mr Salmond leapt to his feet and said, “No we won’t. I know better.” That is basically the way all this has proceeded.

We are not being presented with facts; as my hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow Central (Anas Sarwar) said, they are assertions. I would be a wee bit kinder than that: they might be aspirations, but they are more likely the product of politicians who want to remove difficult issues from the agenda before the referendum. We would see a very different Scotland afterwards if it were outside the EU, forced to create its own central bank and introduce a new currency. I mention the currency because the only other similar experience that I am aware of is when the Czech Republic and Slovakia split. I think it was the Czech Prime Minister who said that they had agreed to keep the same currency, but within a matter of weeks that decision was changed and a new currency had to be created. I cannot see a Scotland in the same situation being any different, even if I believed that that was the intention. However, what we know so far—about the monarch, the pound sterling, the Bank of England as the reserve bank and being part of the EU—does not sound very much like independence to me.

[Mr MacNeil]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Mr Doran]

The hon. Gentleman has intervened many times and thereby had more than 10 minutes already. I would rather make my own contribution to the debate.

It is important that we have facts. One area where that is most important is the economy of an independent Scotland. It is quite clear from all their forecasts that the current Scottish Government would rely heavily on North sea oil revenues. My hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow North East (Mr Bain) has already made the point from the Front Bench, but I want to give a bit more detail, because it is extremely important that accurate facts are readily available. The first point to consider about the oil and gas industry is just how volatile these commodities are. Prices can rise or fall very quickly. I am old enough to remember in the 1980s when the oil price went from $32 a barrel to $8 a barrel virtually overnight. We lost more than 50,000 jobs in the north-east of Scotland when that happened. An independent country would have found it difficult to survive that event. Unless we are talking about a prosperous middle eastern country with no resources other than oil, it is very dangerous to rely on oil and gas for the economy.

We have to look at the research. The most accurate and trusted UK commentator on the oil and gas industry is Professor Alec Kemp of Aberdeen university. For decades, he and his colleague Linda Stephen have studied the UK oil and gas industry, and their regular reports are respected and accepted throughout the industry. The most recent report looks at the prospects for activity on the UK continental shelf following the recent oil tax changes. The report is very detailed and considers the prospects for oil and gas production in the next 30 years in the UK sector. In the last two years production has declined, partly because of the tax changes in the 2010 Budget, but also as a result of the large increase in unplanned shutdowns. That has had an almost immediate effect on the amount of revenue coming into the Exchequer. Also, the North sea infrastructure is very old, and there has been a large number of unplanned shutdowns.

The report details scenarios in which the oil price is $70 a barrel, and the gas price 40p a therm. The potential number of fields in production in 2042— 30 years from now—will fall from 300 to about 60. In that same scenario, oil and gas equivalent production would fall from today’s level of about 1.8 million to 584,000 barrels a day. That is at a price of $70 dollars a barrel and 40p a therm. At a price of $90 dollars and 55p, production would fall from 1.8 million barrels of oil equivalent a day to 520,000. Most of the money and energy would go into decommissioning the North sea platforms that were being rendered redundant, and I do not think it appropriate for a new country to build its economy around the destruction of its most productive industry. We need to see many more such facts on the table before anyone can make a serious decision about what is best for our country.

Common Fisheries Policy

Debate between Angus Brendan MacNeil and Frank Doran

Thursday 15th March 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Doran]

There are many ways in which we could resolve the problem, but the starting point is to shed a little light on the system and to see what is happening. That is extremely important.

One area that the report does not cover, but which I should like to say a word or two about, is black fishing. I have had brief conservations with the Minister about it, and I have mentioned to him twice now, once on the Floor of the House and once in private, that I want to have a meeting with him and will write to him, and I am in the process of gathering material for our discussion.

We are working on the assumption that the whole issue of black fish is not a problem any more, but I am not sure that that is correct. Everyone in the Chamber will be aware that there have been some serious criminal cases—they were not trials, because everyone pleaded guilty—in the Scottish courts in which a number of fishermen and fish processors have been found guilty of serious offences.

We are talking about tens of millions of pounds, and everyone I know in the fishing industry, no matter at what level they are, knows that the figures that have been quoted, and which were prominent in the individual trials, are just the tip of the iceberg. It was a much more serious issue. I shall not say much more than that, because, although a number of cases been dealt with, one more has still to be dealt with and will be in court later this month.

From the information that we have so far on the way in which the system operated, it is apparent that a very sophisticated process was under way. Skippers falsified their log books as they landed their catches, lying about how much fish was on board. Weighing scales at the factory were rigged. I am told that at a factory at the centre of one case there were two computer systems—one computer, recording a false weight, was visible to the regulators, and the other one was in the loft recording the true weight. There was separate pumping equipment on the quay, with the legitimate fish to be declared sent through one system and the black fish sent through another. I am talking about pelagic fish; I should have emphasised that. Exactly the same thing has been happening in the white fish industry.

The situation has not yet been dealt with, and it might not be, because the trials may have been just for effect, to try to focus on the problem and make sure that it was properly killed. A police officer who made a statement at one of the trials said that there is an assumption that nobody is a victim in these cases except our fish stocks. In fact, there have been a large number of victims, most of whom are in the fish processing industry.

[Mr Angus Brendan MacNeil (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP)]

I do not know much about what the hon. Gentleman is talking about as regards white fish, but could there be a difference in the case of the pelagic stocks, given that any black fish in a white fish area could be non-discarded fish that people are planning to land rather than dump?

[Mr Doran]

No. The operation was much more systematic and organised, and on a much bigger scale, than that. This did not happen by accident; it was not by-catch.

Fisheries

Debate between Angus Brendan MacNeil and Frank Doran

Tuesday 15th November 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Doran]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. We have a habit in fisheries debates in sending the Minister off to Brussels with all our support and help. This is not a party political issue; there might be many issues we disagree on, but this is certainly not one of them. The hopefully full support of the House expressed in this motion today is important.

The consultation also proposes a complete ban on discards. Commissioner Damanaki suggests a gradual approach, starting with a limited number of fish species in the ban. The starting point will be in the pelagic fisheries, moving on later to the demersal fisheries. Of course we all want to see a ban on discards, but any proposal to ban them must take account of the reality of fishing. The proposal suggests that the Commission will not budge from its current policy of a species-by-species approach, which ignores the reality of mixed fisheries. Our current science is inadequate and is unable to deal under the current rules with mixed fisheries. A large amount of discards come from those fisheries; what is needed is an ecosystem approach that recognises that many different species of fish—

[Mr Angus Brendan MacNeil (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP)]

Does the hon. Gentleman agree that much of the problem of discards comes from the EU rules themselves, particularly the catch composition rules, which mean that the seven target species are not caught to a certain degree, but so many other kinds have to be dumped as a result that it amounts to absolute madness from the EU?

[Mr Doran]

The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right. There are many reasons for the high level of discards, and what he suggests is certainly a major one.

What we need is much greater emphasis on the science and particularly on making the science fit the management purpose. We have had more than two centuries of fisheries science, but in the present condition I understand that there is no analytical assessment of around 60% of the stocks in our waters. The science needs to improve, it needs to consider the specific problems associated with mixed fisheries and it needs to inform a sustainable policy. Of course, the Fisheries Commissioner’s proposals will work with some fish stocks, but it will fail—and fail miserably—if the same rules are applied to mixed fisheries.

Scotland Bill

Debate between Angus Brendan MacNeil and Frank Doran

Tuesday 15th March 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr MacNeil]

I am sure that the hon. Gentleman knows that there is more than one way to skin a cat. I am also sure that he would like to see a busier port in Grangemouth and a Government able to incentivise greater activity in Grangemouth. I therefore expect him to support my new clauses.

These measures will mean that the Scottish Parliament and Government can get on with the job of making Scotland better and allow the rest of the UK to focus on what it considers to be important. This is a litmus test that will show Scotland which of its MPs stand for Scotland and which of them focus on party advantage. I intend to press new clauses 3 and 12 to Divisions.

[Mr Frank Doran (Aberdeen North) (Lab)]

I shall speak mainly on new clause 3. I am rather bemused by the contribution that we have just heard on new clause 12. The hon. Member for Na h-Eileanan an Iar (Mr MacNeil) has presented a dangerous argument, and I am not sure whether I totally understand it.

I have always understood that the current boundary was agreed by international negotiation in 1707. The Scottish border used to go down as far as Newcastle and in some respects almost as far as Bolton, I think, but things have changed. I know that the SNP has a hang-up about the oil industry and the fact that what it sees as its rightful share has been stolen from it. However, there are much more serious issues to be discussed today.

The hon. Gentleman appropriately raised the issue of the coastguard. I know that his coastguard station in Stornoway is one of the stations under threat. It is right for him to fight for it, but it is not right to extend the argument to where nationalists tend to end up—that the only way to solve a problem is to move it to Scotland. There is a serious issue around the reorganisation of the coastguard. He knows as well as I do that in Scotland there will be just two stations—the maritime operating centre, which it is proposed will be in Aberdeen in my constituency, and either Shetland or Stornoway.

My understanding is that Shetland did not figure in the original Government proposal, but a certain amount of influence within Government has seen Shetland on the list. I hope the hon. Gentleman wins his battle to save the Stornoway station. That battle is entirely appropriate. Apart from anything else, the fact that in the Western Isles there is a preponderance of Gaelic speaking and Gaelic place names means that, if there is any risk in that area, it is essential that the geography is properly understood. It is important to make that point.

[Mr MacNeil]

Given what the hon. Gentleman has said, surely he understands my argument that it would be better for control to lie in the Scottish Parliament and with the Scottish Government. Since 1999, the Scottish Government have been either SNP or Labour-led. My new clause would remove the Maritime and Coastguard Agency from the clutches of the Conservatives, whose tendency seems to be to cut. Would the hon. Gentleman prefer to leave the agency with the Conservatives?

[Mr Doran]

My argument is that a problem is not solved just by moving it to Scotland. There are fundamental problems with the coastguard—for example, most of the equipment that it uses is 40 years out of date. There is new technology available which is necessary for proper safety on our seas. The money needs to be invested. Given the present financial situation, one of the few ways that money can be invested, sadly, involves the closure of a number of coastguards. I have been told by workers at my own coastguard that with the new technology, Aberdeen could cover the whole of Scotland, but the point that I made earlier about the Western Isles is recognised. The issue will not be resolved simply by asking for it to be devolved to the Scottish Parliament.

I am by no means in favour of everything proposed in the consultation paper published by the Government, but what is needed is a properly co-ordinated national system, which we do not have at present. We have groups or pairs of coastguard stations which can communicate with one another, but in the event of a major disaster or a major incident, it is difficult to see how we could get the full benefit of a national system and the investment that we need to make by separating the Scottish service from the rest of the UK and allowing that to operate on its own.

I was heavily involved in the aftermath of the Piper Alpha disaster, when the coastguard played a pivotal role—I do not know which other stations were involved. The service then was very similar to what it is now, and there was not the capacity to involve the whole of the coastguard operation throughout the UK. Given what we have seen in other countries in recent years, it is possible that that facility may be necessary in the future. As I have said, the way to resolve a major infrastructure problem is not to cut it off and devolve it to Scotland, which is a blinded and fundamentalist view of how we should function.

We need a co-ordinated system throughout the UK. One of the key weaknesses of breaking up the system is what the Scottish Government would or could do with it. Like many people, I am suspicious about the fact that the SNP Government in Edinburgh have made no attempt to give us a proper Budget for the next three years, as we have seen the current Government and the previous Labour Government produce for the UK. Of course, there is an election on the way, so that will be the main consideration.

If the coastguard system is to be upgraded to modern standards, where will the necessary money come from? If the hon. Gentleman was successful with his new clause, there would clearly have to be some transfer of money from the UK to pay for the existing system, but not for upgrading it. The system that I hope will be based in my constituency at Aberdeen, once the consultation exercise is over and the investment has been made, will serve not just Scottish waters, but almost half the UK—it will be capable of serving the whole UK. Would that be on offer in a system run under the narrow nationalist view that the hon. Gentleman is taking? I do not know.

I need to know, and the Committee needs to know, where the money will come from to upgrade and modernise the system. It is not clear that that money exists in the Scottish Budget. If the SNP Government cannot afford to build any new schools and are not able to fund local services properly, how will they modernise the coastguard system, which is essential for the safety of our maritime fleet, our sailors and our fishing industry? The hon. Gentleman is well aware of the dangers inherent in that industry. There are more industrial accidents and deaths in the fishing industry than in virtually all the rest of industry in Britain put together. The most dangerous industry in Britain depends on the coastguard, and many operators in the fishing industry are based in his constituency.

If the new clause is part of a campaign to save the hon. Gentleman’s own coastguard station, fine. I can accept it on those terms, but if it is a serious attempt to change the system, it must be rejected.

Fisheries

Debate between Angus Brendan MacNeil and Frank Doran

Thursday 2nd December 2010 Westminster Hall

[Mr Doran]

I welcome the Minister’s remarks and was not targeting him specifically—

[Mr MacNeil]

He was a by-catch.

[Mr Doran]

That is a very good point. A number of Members have indicated that they want to speak, so I will say no more on that point. The hon. Member for Banff and Buchan covered many of the points that I wanted to cover, so I do not intend to say much. I hope that we will have an opportunity to hear the Minister give his review of the year and set out the Government’s plans and the position they will take at the Fisheries Council meeting on 13 December on all the important issues that will be raised today.

The general point I want to make is that it has been a difficult year for the fishing industry. The hon. Lady mentioned that 13 fishermen have been lost at sea this year, and every year that figure is shockingly high. It is the most unsafe of all the industries in the UK. I know that the industry makes serious attempts to improve its safety record, but the problem tends to lie with individual vessels, and it is difficult to enforce safety measures. I do not know how we can get the message across, but we need to do much more to improve safety.

The pelagic fisheries have been mentioned, and there is a serious problem in that regard. The idea that one country can put a gun to the head of the whole of Europe, in the way that the Icelanders seem to be doing to get whatever they want—I am not quite sure what they want—is a serious problem. We had the opportunity in the all-party group on fisheries to meet representatives of the Scottish pelagic fisheries, who made it clear how difficult that is for the industry and how much they want to see the problem resolved, but not through concessions to Iceland.

[Mr MacNeil]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Mr Doran]

I am sure that the hon. Gentleman will have the opportunity to make his own contribution.

Another serious problem this year, particularly for the Scottish fleet, has been the Isle of Man’s decision to limit scallop fishing. Financial pressures are beginning to tell. I am told that up to 41 vessels from the white fish fleet—almost a third of a fleet of 120—are likely to be decommissioned over the next year, which is a sign of the difficulty imposed on the fleet by the limited fishing opportunities allowed by the current CFP arrangements. The Seafood Scotland website, which I looked at while preparing for the debate, reported in news releases for June and July this year that, for a number of vessels, nearly all the days at sea had been used up, so the end of year fishing will be limited. That puts pressure on other links in the chain of the fishing industry.

My main interest in the fishing industry is in the processing side. The Aberdeen fleet is turning to fish elsewhere. The processing industry has serious problems with the fluctuations in the provision of raw material. There is continuing uncertainty over the progress of reform in the common fisheries policy, manpower changes in the Commission, the lack of news about the proposals that are to be laid and the politics of it all. Whenever we discuss such matters with the industry, there is no sense that there will be any sensible breakthrough that will reform the way in which we operate at the moment. There are so many problems with the common fisheries policy that it is difficult to know where to start. We know where we would like to be, but given the size of the opposing bloc in the European Union, there will be major difficulties in reaching any sensible decision to reform the policy.

On the positive side, there is, unquestionably, progress in the industry. The hon. Member for Banff and Buchan mentioned the Marine Stewardship Council. I remember being at its launch in 1997 at 4 Millbank, its UK branch, when people were saying, “Well, it’s not going to apply to us. Our fishermen are the last hunter-gatherers.” There was no sense that the council was going to be anything really positive for the industry. Since then, however, there has been a sea change in the way in which the industry views itself and functions, particularly in Scotland, which has led the way in the UK and in Europe. The industry has adjusted to the new environment—its massive gear changes, technical improvements and, most importantly, cultural change. The industry now talks about itself as harvesters rather than hunters. It knows that the stock that remains has to be sustainable, which is why there is so much anger about the way in which Iceland has operated. There is also much anger about other issues such as the by-catches and the waste of resource that is allowed under the current arrangements. Haddock and pelagic stocks are now MSC-approved, which does huge things for the marketing opportunities for my fish processers as well as for others.

The other positive thing—I know that it sounds confusing to call it positive—is that trials are under way in Scotland of fishermen who have broken the rules and regulations in relation to black fish. Some 15 fishermen or vessel owners have been convicted and are awaiting sentence. How can I possibly present that as good news? Well, for most of the time that I have been speaking in these debates, black fish has been a key issue, which meant that our industry was not properly regulated. A combination of effort from various Government bodies, Grampian police and others has seen black fish put into its coffin, which is a good thing. It should have happened many years ago.

Earlier, I mentioned that the biggest problem facing the fish processing side of the industry is the availability of raw material. I know that an industry such as the one in Aberdeen that relied on white fish—haddock principally but cod as well—now deals with a whole range of products. The uncertainty makes life very difficult. My fish processers also make it clear to me that their relationship with fish catchers is not always easy. The catchers think that the processers steal the food out of their babies’ mouths, and something similar is said in the other direction. None the less, at the end of the day, they know that they are linked, and the processers now recognise, as much as the catchers, the need for a sustainable industry, but they want one with more certainty.

The skills of the people in the industry is an issue, not least because the flow of new people is drying up, particularly in Aberdeen. Fish processing work is mainly done by workers from east Europe and China, who have the skills, work hard and sustain the industry. Very few young people from the UK or Scotland are coming into the industry and learning the skills that their parents and grandparents learned and passed on.

The hygiene regulations, which mostly come from Europe, are expensive and costly for the industry. Over a number of years, there has been regulation after regulation and that causes difficulty. The processers are keen to point out that unlike the fish catchers, they do not get any decommissioning costs in return.

Let me say a few words about the way in which the debate in the industry has changed. As secretary of the all-party group on fisheries, I can say that we have become much more engaged with external bodies, such as the World Wildlife Fund and GLOBE International, of which many Members of this House are members. The organisation Baltic Sea 2020, which is based in Stockholm, is now interested both in functioning in the North sea and in the common fisheries policy.

I return to my point about the change in culture in the industry. Representatives of WWF and of GLOBE International spoke at our all-party group a week or so ago. It was fascinating to hear them because they were speaking almost the same language as our fishing industry representatives, and that is a sign of how much things have moved on. Certainly, reading the presentations of both organisations, they are presenting arguments to Brussels that we would want to see presented by our own Government.

I have one final word to say to the Minister. Despite my outburst at the start of my contribution, I know that he is doing a good job and that he will do a good job in Brussels. I wish him well in all his travails and hope that at the end of it all he will get some sleep.