Automated and Electric Vehicles Bill

Andy McDonald Excerpts

2nd reading: House of Commons & Ways and Means resolution: House of Commons
Monday 23rd October 2017 Commons Chamber

[Iain Stewart]

I am afraid that my memory is not as complete as it might be. I cannot recall whether that was discussed; I do not think it was. However, my right hon. Friend raises a very fair point, and I hope that it will be considered in Committee.

As regards the distinction between a wholly autonomous car where there are no driver controls whatsoever and driver-assist, there will be cases in the middle where the car has a dual function, with blurring as to when the technology is applied. I would still like Ministers to provide greater clarification for drivers and the industry on the point at which the transition occurs. We have heard talk about having road trains in future where a car may be driven under control up to a certain point and will then form part of a convoy on the motorway. There needs to be greater clarity, for the public in particular, about the point at which the changeover happens.

[Andy McDonald (Middlesbrough) (Lab)]

I am very interested in the hon. Gentleman’s comments. If we have totally automated vehicles end to end, and the whole purpose is to liberate people who would not otherwise be able to drive, is it not completely logical that they would not be subjected to any test whatsoever in the conduct of that vehicle?

[Iain Stewart]

Indeed. The shadow Secretary of State makes a perfectly fair point. We cannot predict what all these vehicles will be like. Some may have dual function, and we should prepare for that eventuality.

Clause 4 touches on where the liability lies if the software has been tampered with in some way. That could happen accidentally if the car was being repaired and an engineer did not upgrade or put the thing back together properly, or it could be deliberate. We have already had cases of cyber-attacks on autonomous and connected vehicles. We had reassurance in Committee previously that in the absence of further regulations, the current system would apply, and ultimately the Motor Insurers Bureau’s uninsured scheme would come into force. Does it remain the insurer of last resort? Sadly, given the huge number of scams we currently see in the insurance market with arranged accidents and so on, malevolent people will devise new ways of trying to scam how autonomous vehicles are insured. I urge the Minister to work with industry to make sure that we future-proof the systems and the regulations as much as possible to make sure that we can deal with these scams effectively as they arise.

Another point in clause 4 that still causes me some concern is subsection (1)(b), which refers to

“a failure to install safety-critical software updates that the insured person knows, or ought reasonably to know, are safety-critical.”

If there is such a failure, the insurer’s liability is diminished. I would like some further clarification as to what

“or ought reasonably to know”

actually means. At what point does the individual become liable for making sure that the software is upgraded? I am awaiting goodness knows how many updates for my iPhone; I am fearful of installing them because it will mess up my contacts list and everything else in it. That does not matter, because it is my phone and my choice, but if I am getting into a vehicle that is controlled by software, what is the point of liability at which I need to upgrade it? Will the upgrades have a limiting capability such that if it is not upgraded, the vehicle will not work? If so, where would that be specified? Subject to clarification on the points I have raised, I broadly welcome the general approach to insurance, as it will allow the industry to develop a variety of appropriate products. The market will change, and we need to give the industry the flexibility to develop.

With regard to part 2, on electric vehicles, again I welcome the general approach taken in the Bill. We cannot predict future technology, and it is therefore difficult to be specific, but equally we need to give industry and consumers confidence regarding concerns over range anxiety. Will charging points be harmonised? Will they work? Will there be enough of them at motorway services? Will there be sufficient time to recharge? All these points need to be dealt with to give consumers and industry some clarification.

We are seeing an increasing take-up of ULEV vehicles, particularly electric-only models. There have been developments with Volvo and others saying that all their new cars will be electric or hybrid in the very near future. However, there are a couple of broader concerns that are not entirely within the jurisdiction of the Department for Transport, but the Department needs to be in the lead in discussions with other Departments. First, there is the cost to Government in terms of lost revenue from fuel duty, and potentially from parking charges that local authorities levy on motor vehicles but are free for electric vehicles. One estimate is that if the Government do not make any changes, they will lose £170 billion in revenue by 2030 as people increasingly shift to electric vehicles. What does that mean for how we charge for our vehicles? I appreciate that that is a much broader issue that goes beyond this Bill, but it will have to be addressed at some point.

We also need to look at how we are going to power these cars. Atkins, drawing on a report by the Energy Technologies Institute, recently said that we need to understand when and where people will want to charge their cars. At the moment, it is likely to be in the early evening, particularly Sunday evenings as people have more leisure time then. That is forecast to add 10 GW of demand to the grid—a 20% increase at a time when it may be at its least resilient. How are we going to address that? I suspect that it will largely come down to the battery technology outlined by my right hon. Friend the Member for West Dorset (Sir Oliver Letwin).

As others have said, 30% of UK residents do not currently have off-street parking, living in flats, terraced houses and other places where it is not easy to just put a plug out of the window and attach it to the car. That will have to be addressed in our planning systems as we move forward.

We had a very good Bill prior to the election, and this Bill has been improved. It addresses many of the concerns that were raised. I have raised a few more tonight, and I very much hope that they will be picked up in Committee. We have to get it right. This is an important Bill and it has my full support.

--- Later in debate ---

[Andy McDonald (Middlesbrough) (Lab)]

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. We have had a very thorough debate, so perhaps Members thought that the ground has been well covered, as it has.

As has been previously stated, Labour is supportive of the Bill. We intend to vote in support of it but to table key amendments in Committee. Indeed, we supported these clauses the first time around, when they were part of the Vehicle Technology and Aviation Bill, which had passed through its Commons Committee only for the Prime Minister to go off for a walk in Wales and then call a snap election, so all that work was lost.

I commend the Minister for Transport Legislation and Maritime for his approach to the Bill, which reflects his approach to all such matters. If Carlsberg did legislation, it would copy his lead.

Before I discuss the content of the Bill and some of the contributions we have heard, I wish to express my disappointment at the Government’s decision to break up what was the Vehicle Technology and Aviation Bill so that it could be reintroduced as smaller, separate Bills. As the hon. Member for Kilmarnock and Loudoun (Alan Brown) said, the introduction of the Air Travel Organisers’ Licensing Bill—a four-clause Bill, whose clauses had already been debated as a part of the Vehicle Technology and Aviation Bill—and the inordinate amount of time afforded to debating it, was nothing less than an embarrassment. It is clear that the Government, running scared of Parliament, decided to break-up the Vehicle Technology and Aviation Bill in an attempt to compensate for a threadbare legislative agenda, and so that the House would spend as much time as possible re-treading old ground so that they could avoid debates and votes on the myriad important issues facing our constituents that should require our urgent attention.

We will seek to make a number of key amendments in Committee on areas of concern, such as the liberal use of delegated powers in the Bill, and I have taken on board some of the comments made by the right hon. Member for West Dorset (Sir Oliver Letwin) on clause 9. We will amend any areas of the Bill that might add costs to policyholders and contention over liability between manufacturers and insurers. We will also seek to amend the Bill so that the Government have to consult widely on developing a definition of “automated vehicles”, as highlighted by the hon. Member for Milton Keynes South (Iain Stewart), and we will press the Government to clarify how the proposed regulations will promote the uptake of electric vehicles, ultra low emission vehicles and automated vehicles.

We have heard a range of contributions. My hon. Friends the Members for Bishop Auckland (Helen Goodman), for Barrow and Furness (John Woodcock) and for Swansea East (Carolyn Harris) returned to the issue of the adequacy of charging points and came forward with many suggestions, including the provision of charging points at shopping centres and the like. My hon. Friend the Member for Eltham (Clive Efford) was quite correct to highlight some of the moral choices that we will have to wrestle with through Committee stage and beyond in terms of the choices that automated vehicles will make on our behalf.

There was a wide-ranging and thought-provoking contribution from my hon. Friend the Member for Ellesmere Port and Neston (Justin Madders) concerning the reality of the job losses in his constituency. He highlighted that particular moment when the occupant ceases to become liable, and mentioned deliberate hacking, which was referred to on a number of occasions. My hon. Friend the Member for Bristol West (Thangam Debbonaire) talked about the potential ratcheting up of debt finance agreements, and the affordability of such contractual arrangements. She warned about our remaining vigilant in that respect. My hon. Friend the Member for Warwick and Leamington (Matt Western) highlighted the higher take-up of electric vehicles in places such as Norway and their apparent better interoperability, saying that perhaps lessons could be learned in that regard.

It is important to make it clear that although there is much support in this Bill, it is not accompanied by a broader strategy that is sufficient to combat air quality and climate change or to support industry. It was a positive move from the Government to announce the ban on sales of all diesel and petrol cars and vans from 2040, but that will not be achieved while the target remains unaccompanied by additional measures and increased funding for alternative modes of transport.

The Bill does not address the issue of funding sufficiently to support the uptake of electric vehicles. It was clearly a counterproductive move to slash grants for ultra low emission vehicles and electric vehicles and to cut the plug-in grants for EVs and for home charging, as the market alone will not facilitate the transition to future vehicles. The Office for Low Emission Vehicles already subsidises low emission cars and vans but does not do so for e-bikes. OLEV has said that that is because Ministers have not given it a remit to do so.

Labour has also pledged an additional £200 million to the Office for Low Emission Vehicles, which could be used to reinstate grants such as a wider commitment to invest in the work of OLEV to provide clean modes of transport. In practice, better funding to the office would also mean that the new ULEV grant scheme could be financed as part of better support for research and other grants, including for e-bikes, which OLEV deems necessary. Grants could be awarded to create a wider network of charging points. On that point, I do acknowledge the announcement of extra funding made by the Minister tonight, for which I am grateful.

Automated vehicles will make our roads safer and underline the importance of reducing the number of killed and seriously injured on our roads. Tragically, for too many families the road safety record of this Government is not a happy one. The latest road safety statistics make for chilling reading, with the number of road deaths at a five-year high and serious life-changing injuries up by 9%.

Labour made significant progress on road safety, but those targets have been scrapped, which has allowed our roads to become more dangerous. The underfunding of police forces has meant that there are a third fewer dedicated traffic police than a decade ago, making enforcement less effective. In the long term, automated vehicles will make our roads safer, but we cannot allow the Government to substitute urgently needed action with long-term strategies, and legislating on automated vehicles should not be an excuse for a failure to reintroduce road safety targets and a refusal to deliver the resources our police forces need.

Although it is true that air quality will in future be improved by the use of electric and ultra low emission vehicles, there is an abject failure to tackle the air pollution crisis that today is causing some 50,000 premature deaths. The Conservatives have failed to introduce a diesel scrappage scheme or to give local authorities the powers they need to introduce clean air zones. We saw today measures set out by the Mayor of London, but it is wrong that the Government are denying local authorities the powers they need to clean up our towns and cities. The Government are presiding over a lack of investment in sustainable modes of transport, including cuts to bus services, which are in decline due to a combination of cuts and the failure of the bus deregulation system.

However, against that backdrop, Her Majesty’s Opposition will support this Bill. We will work to secure the support of the Government for our amendments in Committee to deliver the best possible legislation to accommodate the burgeoning automated and electric vehicle industry, and the massive social and economic potential that it represents.